Call me Serenity

[serenityruler]

Hi,

I've read through this forum before when I initially became interested in the idea of polyamory several years ago. Now I've been in a poly relationship for a year and I could use some support.

We're a V, though up until recently we were a quad. I was the newest partner. My boyfriend has been married to his wife for close to a year and a half, and frankly it's been a rocky year and a half. They rushed the marriage because his dad was dying, and she was still in the new relationship energy stage with her boyfriend....

Pretty much all our friends and family know, and obviously some don't agree with it. A lot of our friends have hinted at the least that they think the marriage isn't going to work out; that it's already dead. Is it because they know the couple better or because they don't think poly works? They've been together for 5-6 years and I've known them off and on for less than 3 years.

I'm going to spill the beans. They've barely been romantic since they got married. He feels bad even hugging her sometimes because it doesn't seem to be what she wants. She was talking for months of getting her own place "to figure herself out" and she now wants to move into the other bedroom once their roommate moves out. I know it hurts him.

And that hurts me. To see him hurt. But it also hurts me that he pretty much always puts her first. We've never had any discussion of whether we're hierarchical. This started as just sex and neither of us expected to fall in love. This is the longest relationship I've had. It wasn't too much an issue that he would put her first given the opportunity because he often didn't get that chance. She was always spending time with her boyfriend. Well, right after Valentines her boyfriend broke it off. Their relationship was rocky, too. He had said from the beginning that he wanted to be monogamous, get married and have kids some day.

Which brings me to the present, the weekend, Friday night. He works weird alternating hours and he's off all weekend, but last weekend and next he worked the whole time, so this would normally be my chance to catch up with him (oh, we live 40 minutes away from each other). But he's made plans with her for each day. I don't think I'm going to see him at all. And I'm sad.

It's worth mentioning that I've been dealing with depression the past couple months, so I've been sad a lot, and he's been really supportive. Also, I don't like being alone with my own thoughts much right now, so I would be sad about a weekend without plans even if he wasn't spending all the time with his wife.

I don't know. Do I talk to him about it? How do I do it? I feel like if I pressure him in any way he'll just pull away from me. I'm so scared of fucking up and losing him. He's the best thing in my life right now and things have been so good at points. Best sex of my life on top of everything else.

Help?

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings serenityruler,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It sounds like you need to sit down with your boyfriend and have a good long heart to heart. Tell him that you do not want to pressure him, but at the same time, you are feeling left out when he puts his wife first. That when he made all his plans with her this particular weekend, you felt very sad.

After your heart to heart with him, spend a little quiet time alone thinking. What will you do if he refuses to change anything? How long do you want to live like that? a year? twenty years? more? less? I think it's helpful to decide how long you'll wait things out, because then you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully before you get to the end of that tunnel, he will change things (for the better), or maybe he and his wife will divorce, although technically we're not hoping for that. You just need to know how long you'll have to wait for things to improve.

Hopefully others will chime in with advice as well. You can post on Poly Relationships Corner and have an increased chance of having more responses. In the meantime, I'll be following this thread here and can give you more feedback if you need it. Let me know how things go, okay?

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

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If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[serenityruler]

Thanks, Kevin.

It's just nice to have someone else read all that, and have someone come from a poly perspective. I always second guess people's responses because I feel like it's the poly part they have an issue with, not what's actually going on.

You're probably right that I need to sit down face to face with him. I expressed a little of this to him in instant message the other day and mostly got a sad face emoticon. It's hard to wait when you're already talking to each other frequently online.

 

[kdt26417]

It's probably fine to IM him, just make time for a more in-depth discussion in person (in addition to the IM).

 

[vinsanity0]

Is he putting her first because it is hierarchical or is it because their relationship needs some serious work? Do you get the feeling that maybe his relationship with you came about because she had a boyfriend that she was with all the time and maybe now they will go back to monogamy? You two definitely need to talk.

 

[serenityruler]

Hi, Vin,

They were poly before, or at least trying for it. I actually initially was dating her, but she's mostly straight and just in denial of it. He's closer to bi and has fooled around some with friends, but I'm the first serious relationship he's had since they got together. I've wondered whether she's truly poly or more monogamous, but they have so many troubles I find it difficult to imagine they're going to go right back to monogamy and render me redundant. At the same time, I do think he looked to me because he was seeking lost intimacy because of her boyfriend.

Maybe they need more time to work on their relationship, and I suppose I should give them that time if that's what it is. I feel like it might be that on his end, but I feel like he's chasing old feelings. Tomorrow night they're going to "do Philly" and the way he said it made it clear that it's something they used to regularly do, and he's really looking forward to it. I find part of me is ill-wishing, and I don't like it. Part of me wants him to be let down by tomorrow night so he can recognize that things aren't the same and drive him back to me. I believe in poly and want things to work, but it's hard not to feel like she's not that good for him, that she doesn't love him the way she used to. It's hard to feel compersion when they don't even seem to be feeling that much love... but I know he's crazy about her still and he just wants things to work. I don't know what she wants.

 

[lunabunny]

Hi Serenity,

First, welcome to the forum... and as Kevin said, feel free to post about the issues you're experiencing in Relationships Corner.

Secondly, your situation does sound like a bit of a muddle, to be honest.

A couple of things struck me immediately:

1.) The fact that you seem very unsure about discussing serious negative feelings you're experiencing within your relationship with the person concerned (i.e. your boyfriend). Why is this? Open communication is at the very heart of polyamory, and without it, confusion and insecurity can easily gain a foothold.

You say you don't wish to pressure him at a time when he's already having issues with his wife, who you feel he often puts first at your expense. You also don't seem sure what the status of your "V" actually is (i.e. hierarchical or otherwise). You said you dated wife *before* you started dating your boyfriend (her husband), and also described your polycule as a former "quad", until wife's boyfriend left her. So... I guess you no longer date or share sex with the wife (?) When and how did your quad become V, rather than a triad?

I think you most definitely DO need to sit down with your boyfriend and try to gain some clarity as to the status of your relationship... and how you both see it progressing into the future.

***********


2.) The other thing that struck me is that these people are probably grieving; your boyfriend for his father, and the wife for her former OSO.

Add to that the rushed marriage, judgement of family and friends, and lack of romance that has resulted between the husband and wife, and it's no wonder your V is experiencing emotional turmoil.

***********

YOU and YOUR needs seems to have got lost in the shuffle, unfortunately.

I can understand your desire to give them time and space to work things out, but this does not necessarily mean compromising your own emotional wellbeing in the meantime.

I also "fell into" polyamory without any idea I was capable for falling in love with, and having a relationship with more than one person at the same time, so I can relate to your feelings of uncertainty regarding where you stand at this present time.

IMO, it's essential that you seek clarification as to your boyfriend's feelings for, and intentions towards you. In his "panic" to keep his wife from emotionally absconding from THEIR relationship, he may be unaware he is treating you as "less than" right now. This does not mean it shouldn't be brought to his attention in a calm and forthright manner. Good luck.

 

[Al99]

Hi Serenity! I will leave the advice to the more experienced poly folks here - but just wanted to say Welcome! And best of luck on your journey. Al

 

[serenityruler]

Hi, Lunabunny,

Hi Serenity,


1.) The fact that you seem very unsure about discussing serious negative feelings you're experiencing within your relationship with the person concerned (i.e. your boyfriend). Why is this? Open communication is at the very heart of polyamory, and without it, confusion and insecurity can easily gain a foothold.

I think it has a lot to do with my depression. I've tried to be on an online forum for depression and I just felt I couldn't be open enough about the poly aspects. Hopefully poly people are understanding about depression and anxiety. I've had my depression pretty under control for about 4 years now, but at the beginning of the year things went to shit, and there were various factors, but my bf was there for me, understanding and compassionate and patient, even when I was so down that it made me doubt my feelings for him. It messed up my libido. It was awful. Now two months later I'm still not quite back to normal. I'm insecure about my depression because it has ruined relationships before, and I didn't want to come to him upset about our relationship if it was tinged by the depression, and it only got this bad recently. I appreciate everyone's insights so far. I feel a little better about talking to him hearing from experienced people that it sounds legitimate.

As for his wife and me, we never got that intimate. She'll get really drunk and do things with girls, but I would never take advantage of someone like that, so after a few months of cuddly friendship, I had an anxiety attack of doubt and unfriended all of them and broke everything off. She was understanding of that and slowly over months I worked my way back to friendship with her and her group of friends. Hence the on and off of knowing them 3 years. So it was never a triad situation. Hell, back when we were dating she was fine with me fooling around with the guy he was fooling around with (fucking squares, man) but made it clear that her then BF (now husband) was off limits. I was scared shitless that I was going to ruin everything again when he first hit on me, but apparently they'd already discussed it and she encouraged it. It's been a complicated trip to this place.

 

[vinsanity0]

Hi, Vin,

They were poly before, or at least trying for it. I actually initially was dating her, but she's mostly straight and just in denial of it. He's closer to bi and has fooled around some with friends, but I'm the first serious relationship he's had since they got together. I've wondered whether she's truly poly or more monogamous, but they have so many troubles I find it difficult to imagine they're going to go right back to monogamy and render me redundant. At the same time, I do think he looked to me because he was seeking lost intimacy because of her boyfriend.

Maybe they need more time to work on their relationship, and I suppose I should give them that time if that's what it is. I feel like it might be that on his end, but I feel like he's chasing old feelings. Tomorrow night they're going to "do Philly" and the way he said it made it clear that it's something they used to regularly do, and he's really looking forward to it. I find part of me is ill-wishing, and I don't like it. Part of me wants him to be let down by tomorrow night so he can recognize that things aren't the same and drive him back to me. I believe in poly and want things to work, but it's hard not to feel like she's not that good for him, that she doesn't love him the way she used to. It's hard to feel compersion when they don't even seem to be feeling that much love... but I know he's crazy about her still and he just wants things to work. I don't know what she wants.

The reason I asked those questions is because it is fairly common for couples who "try polyamory" to revert back to monogamy when they find out how hard poly actually is. It's made even harder when they try to maintain being The Couple with everything revolving around them. That is why a lot of seasoned poly people won't date newbies.

Obviously I am speaking in generalities here since I don't know any of you. Hopefully they are just reconnecting. But the fact there is a need to reconnect is an indicator of a problem. The problem may be how she conducts herself in relationships.

 

[serenityruler]

The reason I asked those questions is because it is fairly common for couples who "try polyamory" to revert back to monogamy when they find out how hard poly actually is. It's made even harder when they try to maintain being The Couple with everything revolving around them.

When you say maintain being The Couple, would that be referring to hierarchical? I don't fully know how hierarchical works. I get the premise, but when I try to think how it would apply to us, I get a little fuzzy on the concept. I mean, if I'm his secondary, can he still be my primary? Is it more about the emotions involved/exchanged or the time spent together? They live together so they almost automatically spend more time together. He's certainly loved her longer, and I feel like it's safe to say they have a deeper connection, but does that mean he loves her more? That last one is rhetorical, but to the point that if he loves her more, does that make it hierarchical?

Also I told him I want to sit down to talk and it looks like we're going to try to do it tomorrow night after their thing. I know that's progress but I'm also nervous. I want him to be honest, but it'll hurt if he says he genuinely loves her more.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Serenity,

I am thinking that hierarchy can mean any number of things. In general it means you are second place in any conflict of interest. But it could also mean that he loves her more, who knows as far as that is concerned.

It's good that you have a talk set up with him. Even if it is a difficult talk, at least you'll know some things you didn't know previously, and can adjust your course accordingly. If there are any surprises, I hope they're pleasant surprises.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Ravenscroft]

There were people in my life whom I accorded a higher priority. It feels absurd to say I "loved them more."

They live together so they almost automatically spend more time together.

That is hierarchal thinking. There is no way that couplism is mandatory, particularly so for people who claim they're nonmonogamous. When I lived with two lovers, there were entire weeks we hardly saw each other awake.

A day = 24 hours. Work time (for most of us) is 9 hours minimum, leaving 16 at most. Sleep is another 6-8, & only questionably "together."

There's nothing wrong with you choosing to be an occasional "add on" break for a primary couple.

I feel like if I pressure him in any way he'll just pull away from me.

And it seems that if you don't begin bringing stuff up for discussion, your relationship will just become more & more tenuous until one day (maybe soon) oneor both of you realize it's done. If you'd rather let it die with a whimper, that's your choice.

 

[vinsanity0]

When you say maintain being The Couple, would that be referring to hierarchical? I don't fully know how hierarchical works. I get the premise, but when I try to think how it would apply to us, I get a little fuzzy on the concept.

Yes, that is a form of hierarchy. When I say maintain being The Couple I mean they will stay together at any cost. They make decisions about their individual extraneous relationships as a unit. Often this leaves their partners as less than secondary since they have no real say other than deciding if they want to stick around.

I mean, if I'm his secondary, can he still be my primary? Is it more about the emotions involved/exchanged or the time spent together? They live together so they almost automatically spend more time together. He's certainly loved her longer, and I feel like it's safe to say they have a deeper connection, but does that mean he loves her more? That last one is rhetorical, but to the point that if he loves her more, does that make it hierarchical?

Hierarchy is more about the importance placed on partners in one's life. Yes, nesting partners do have certain things they have to consider but being primaries does not have to be an automatic default. Obviously they have more invested in each other but that shouldn't mean their other relationships are any less important.

I don't view love as something that there can be more or less of. I either love someone or I don't.

Also I told him I want to sit down to talk and it looks like we're going to try to do it tomorrow night after their thing. I know that's progress but I'm also nervous. I want him to be honest, but it'll hurt if he says he genuinely loves her more.

I wouldn't ask it like that. Your primary concern is with how you fit into his life. If his wife asked him to break up with you so they could be monogamous again, what would he say?

Right now he is probably feeling some renewed NRE for his wife. On the surface it may appear he loves her more, but how does one gauge that exactly?