Was this like one of the biggest "lead on" ever or?

[Xevyon]

Hey guys, so I identify as poly for almost two years now but have only been with a partner.

Basically an old friend came to visit for a house party we were hosting. We had lost contact and haven't met in 3 years. Back then she was still underage and I obviously wouldn't think of her sexually.
I wasn't thinking much of her sleep over. She still talked to my sister and they had arranged things among themselves, thus I thought would be one of those cases where we would chat a bit and go on with our lives.

I couldn't be more wrong...

What was supposed to be an uneventful moment ended up being the closest moments I ever had with someone other then my girlfriend in years.
And now, as the tittle implies, it all bursted into flames.

It all started when she out of the blue apologized for staring so much at me because she had not seen me for so long.

I thought that it was weird because she was the one that mostly stopped talking way back and was a weird thing to say anyway.
We built up tension talking to each other which erupted in an heated argument of who stopped talking with who (she realised was her fault) and then she came hug me telling me she missed me so much and she did never want to be apart from me again.
After that she started getting really close to me in the following 5 days she remained with us.

Now here comes the source of the problem. My gf was with us for part of the time and was her that told me my friend was glued on me and she seemed interested.

She did not know I was poly though, so I though maybe it was exageration cause I don't think she would have tried anything.

The thing is, while we didn't kiss or have sex, certain things she did piled up, things which she now denied where ever sexual in nature, which shocked both me and my gf.

I am not gonna try argue with her any longer about it, this created a big friction between us in the last couple of days. She knows now I'm poly, because obviously I felt something going on between us and I had to clean things up.

I could be wrong, yes there is no doubt and I do not wish to persue someone that has no intentions, but from my experience the signs were such that at least would like an opinion of you guys.
This failure in reading signs never happened to me in such a colossal scale, so I keep second guessing what really happened. (My gf maintains her opinion she is bullshitting us.)


Here are the signs:

So to start up her touching was constant, she would caress my arms, lay on my chest, fiddle with my hands.
In social moments she would tone it down, but would lean to my shoulder, and per example in a moment were we were laying in my bed with other people she started reaching my feet with hers under the blankets.

She would also randomly hug me all the time, and I don't mean small hugs. I mean long, intense hugs. In fact when she left she kept hugging me for like three minutes straight, clenching her hands against my back, not letting go.

When we went out she had no qualms in keeping me up close either, most of the time locking my arm in hers and keeping really close even when she wasn't.

While as I said there was no kissing in mouth she would kiss me in my hands, all over the face, etc and when I kissed her back and shoulder multiple times she moved me closer to her.

There were around three or four times she coiled up to herself, saying out loud she was being stupid. Back then I interpreted as maybe she might be having feelings but didn't want to act on them. Her official response was that it was just because she thought she was being clingy.

She would also say again and again how much she missed me and in the last two days I was with her she made puppy eyes for me to sleep with her when I was about to leave the bed.
We ended up sleeping those two days most of the time holding each other's hands, spooning, etc.

She would also use soft high pitched voice when saying some more tender words and when I stroked her hair,etc.

In those last two days she also started holding my hand and bitting it sofly, while holding it and kissing and at least once she started licking my fingers.
When I was having a business meeting (Skype) in fact she held my hand and started holding it against her face with content look.

Now, in terms of visual cues she did gaze my lips a noticeable number of times, I was in fact testing it out to make sure that it wasn't a fluke.
Her eyes got bigger too a number of times as we looked at each other's eyes fixed on each other.
Sometimes she did this when I wasn't facing her and I knew because I applied peripheral vision.

Now she had a number of weird talks to, which further add to my confusion, cause taking in account how we were behaving in other areas I could not see how they were not supposed to be a form of flirting. (My girlfriend says there is no way they were not intentional but I wanna know what you guys think as well)

So one of the talks was how her hair had grown so fast due to her being sexually frustrated since last September. ( I was like wtf why would you even tell me this, it can only be a clue.)

She also started randomly talking of her sex life and some not so good hook ups she had. (Again, no one asked.)

Then she started showing me tinder guys that had addressed her and how silly some messages were,etc. (At this point I was like. Ok this kind of talk only happens when someone wants to ascertain value to someone over other guys... right?)

She also showed me stupid rap songs with crazy sexual lyrics, the rapper was a woman that liked to show her tits and tell dirty lines about getting eaten. (We both don't even listen to rap much, in fact we first met in a rock/metal festival. She liked it for the fun value, is not something to listen seriously. (Or so she said)
(So yeah, after seeing like 10 videos about this with a pretty girl you are attracted to by your side, which also has been quite physical, things get KINDA weird.)

So this is the gist of it, if you need additional information, do ask. I'm kinda lost for words now. Her reply was that she was kinda "attracted" yes but in a normal way. Which made me go like "what?"
Then I started feeling bad and like I am the sex freak cause she said was "not sexual at all" and cause "she missed me."

Which again my pissed off girlfriend claims is total bullshit and she is downplaying.

 

[GalaGirl]

Did this guest ask for your consent first for all this making out stuff? If not? Then I think your GF is right. It's bullshit to be foisting all that on you. None of what you describe is "friend" behavior to me. It harassment. I would not do it to my friends and I would not want my friends doing it to me.

I don't see what part of biting your hand, licking your fingers, kissing you, and talking about her sex life and listening to songs about oral sex with you is NOT sexual.

I might hug or kiss my friends on the cheek for their birthday but I don't go around quasi-making out with them. I prefer stronger boundaries rather than "fuzzy" ones. Then I don't have to deal in confusion. I suggest you firm up your own boundaries and not participate in that stuff if you don't want to deal with confusion. Don't kiss her, don't pet her hair, don't cuddle, don't engage in inappropriate sex talk.

If you are unsure, confused, or do not want this? You say "STOP. NO! I do not want this."

Had it had been a GUY doing all that to a woman? It would be creepy/stalker/weird already. So no excuses because she's a gal doing it to you. Just change the first few sentences to HIM and see how creeper it reads:

• It all started when he apologized for staring so much at me because he had not seen me for so long. (I thought that it was weird because he was the one that mostly stopped talking way back and was a weird thing to say anyway.)
• he came hug me telling me he missed me so much and he did never want to be apart from me again.
• His touching was constant, he would caress my arms, lay on my chest, fiddle with my hands.
• In social moments he would tone it down, but would lean to my shoulder.
• In a moment were we were laying in my bed with other people he started reaching my feet with his under the blankets.
• He would also randomly hug me all the time, and I don't mean small hugs. I mean long, intense hugs. In fact when he left he kept hugging me for like three minutes straight, clenching his hands against my back, not letting go.
• When we went out he had no qualms in keeping me up close either, most of the time locking my arm in his and keeping really close even when he wasn't

No talk for 3 years, and as soon as they get there they stare at you so much you find it weird and they hug you saying they never want to be apart from you again? Then all the rest -- like not leaving you alone or giving you space while a guest in your home. Sometimes trying to tone it down around people, sometimes trying to sneak something without the people seeing. Interrupting you at work.

It's basic creeper fresh to me.

Maybe it threw you off guard because you had an initial attraction. Or maybe because it was coming out of a woman rather than a guy and you never had a creeper.

But I think if someone wants to date you, they can ask you out properly and respectfully. Not all oozy.

So one of the talks was how her hair had grown so fast due to her being sexually frustrated since last September. ( I was like wtf why would you even tell me this, it can only be a clue.)

See? You are not confused. You are able to recognize when this guest is doing inappropriate behavior.

Her reply was that she was kinda "attracted" yes but in a normal way. Which made me go like "what?" Then I started feeling bad and like I am the sex freak cause she said was "not sexual at all" and cause "she missed me."

Sounds like she flipped it around on you so YOU feel like the creeper instead of her.

Which again my pissed off girlfriend claims is total bullshit and she is downplaying.

I think your GF is right to call BS. If I was your GF I'd be asking you WHY are you taking up with a guest in your home like that? Much less a barely legal one? Much less a person with poor boundaries?

I wonder if your GF is mad at you for not telling the guest to cut it out?

I suggest you nip it in the bud even if you were initially attracted. Not worth the hassles. Since she's downplaying it now? Go with it. Just say "Ok, I misunderstood. Let's just be clear then -- just friends."

Then be polite but really strict with your behavior around her. No more playing cuddle bunnies with her any more in any kind of way. Ask your sister not to have this guest sleep over. Or let you know so you can go stay with GF.

If she starts glomming on and kinda sliming you again tell her NO.

Don't look for problems. There's less messy people in the world to poly date.


Galagirl

 

[Xevyon]

Did this guest ask for your consent first for all this making out stuff? If not?

Well she didn't ask, but in that is my fault too no doubt for leaving it be, I presumed since we used to be close, she maybe could be developing other kind of feelings, and, acting in good faith I let it run it's course to an extent.
Then my plan was to speak about it to see with clarity her intent, which to my shock ended up being pathetic reasons and downplaying.

The thing is, when she was younger she used to be like that somewhat. Just not so much, plus she was a virgin back then and we never talked about sex, thus I put it in a very different frame this time around.

Yeah my GF is not mad at me because I was informing her of events. She got mostly sad cause I let myself go with someone that did whatever she wanted with no thought.

I already talked with her, I told her we could be friends and all, but if she touches me again I would smack her.
She turned it around and made me feel like I was being the pervert one for thinking "that kind of stuff" and she was just doing it with "friendship", "inoccence". Which made my GF even more angry.

Thank you for your reply and support, I was feeling quite insane here.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helped make you feel validated that you were't imaginging things.

I think you got used/creepered -- I'm sorry about that part.

Well she didn't ask, but in that is my fault too no doubt for leaving it be, I presumed since we used to be closed, she maybe could be developing other kind of feelings, and, acting in good faith I let it run it's course to an extent

Could call it a learning experience. In future, clear up consent FIRST and up front. Not leave it for later.

With all people, but esp with barely legal people. Brains are not out of teenagerdom til 25 ish.

Obtain consent before any kissing, making out, whatever. It matters and shows respect. For yourself (to guard you from weird) and for the potential dating partner. (so they know you are respectful and on the level and not creepering them.)

Even hugs. As people get older things like arthritis and other health issues means (hugging = pain.) You don't just glom a hug on people without consent. Even young people can have painful conditions.

I already talked with her, I told her we could be friends and all, but if she touches me again I would smack her.

Friends know how to behave. They don't require smacking.

She's your sister's friend, not yours. Be basic grocery clerk or bank teller polite if you see her around, but don't be friends with her yourself and don't hang out.

She turned it around and made me feel like I was being the pervert one for thinking "that kind of stuff" and she was just doing it with "friendship", "inoccence".

The correct thing to do would have been to say "I'm sorry for misleading you. I see now that it was inappropriate to behave that way. I will stop. "

Creepers of both genders say that kind of stuff. "I didn't mean it what way! You took it wrong!" It's blame shifting / gas lighting.

Steer clear.

Galagirl

 

[Xevyon]

Glad it helped make you feel validated that you were't imaginging things.

I think you got used/creepered -- I'm sorry about that part.

Yeah, thing is I used to really trust her and used to help her a lot with some issues when she was younger.

When she left before I confronted her she said she was really, really sorry to stop talking to me and thought we had a spiritual connection and she missed me.
That kinda made me solidify that notion that she might really have feelings.



With all people, but esp with barely legal people. Brains are not out of teenagerdom til 25 ish.

She actually is 19, going 20. So yeah I know that phase of life can be quite chaotic, specially with ppl that had complicated familiar issues like her.




Friends know how to behave. They don't require smacking.

She's your sister's friend, not yours. Be basic grocery clerk or bank teller polite if you see her around, but don't be friends with her yourself and don't hang out with them.

Ironically when she called my sister the other day (cause i stopped replying for a few days after she turned me down) she was telling her they were really great friends, but she always had felt a special connection with me.
But, because she was stupid and due to an obsessive ex she stopped talking.

We never had issues like this before, but then again we stopped talking when she was 17. She seems kinda doing whatever she feels like, now that she is in college, away from parental obsessive control.

Even though she is special to me (or so i thought) I will stay clear from her, and don't engage too much. Maybe she will gain more maturity with age, maybe not, but rather safe then sorry I guess.

Thank you once again for the wise words

 

[GalaGirl]

Ironically when she called my sister the other day (cause i stopped replying for a few days after she turned me down) she was telling her they were really great friends, but she always had felt a special connection with me. But, because she was stupid and due to an obsessive ex she stopped talking.

You stopped replying to her. So now she's trying to get access to you THROUGH the sister by buttering her up?

Some friend.

We never had issues like this before, but then again we stopped talking when she is 17. She seems kinda doing whatever she feels like, now that she is in college, away from parental obsessive control.

She behaved better in the past when under the care of the "obsessive control" parents?

And now that she is responsible for her own self and no longer under parental care, she's behaving weirder?

I notice she quit talking to you while she was dating the "obsessive control BF." Then she comes sniffing around you after they broke up. To me it sounds like she was horny and you were handy.

Just keep away. Whatever her family issues are, you don't have to get involved. There's easier people in the world to date.

Be leery of being too "special" too fast someone. All this talk about "spiritual connection" and "so special" after not talking for 3 years? What's that actually based on if you were not in contact? People can change a lot in 3 years.

Talk is cheap and sometimes just a lot of hooey. In actions what's she been doing that's so great lately? Behaving kinda creeper, confusing you, playing mind games and not owning it when called on poor behavior.

Maybe she will gain more maturity with age, maybe not, but rather safe then sorry I guess.

Yup. Better safe than sorry.

I could be wrong in my impressions but it just doesn't sound any good or healthy.

Galagirl

 

[Xevyon]

Damn... yeah, you are right in what you said.

In a way I just want to believe is true cause I miss her.
Sometimes I would tell my GF so. She would wisely say it was probably due to her relationship with her then BF, as they probably were in those types of toxic controlling relationships.

Then I started thinking it was indifference cause they had already broken up for a while and still she had not made contact.
Then when she was here she explained was mostly cause she felt ashamed and thought I would not care anymore either.

It would have been a great moment to get in touch if it wasn't for what followed after I guess... damn volatile teenagers...

 

[GalaGirl]

It's ok to miss the "old" her.

At the same time, it's ok to not want to be involved in any today drama from the "today" her.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Xevyon,

It sounds like this old friend of yours was coming on to you in a sexual way, but she did not want to admit it. Since she says she only wants to be friends with you, you have to take her at her word. Don't engage her in any way except what friends would do. And don't interpret any of her gestures as more than friendship. If anything she does seems inappropriate, say, "Please don't do that."

If she wants more than friendship she can let you know.
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[vinsanity0]

Yeah, after reading through the thread I think she felt embarrassed after being rejected.

 

[Xevyon]

Hi Xevyon,

It sounds like this old friend of yours was coming on to you in a sexual way, but she did not want to admit it. Since she says she only wants to be friends with you, you have to take her at her word. Don't engage her in any way except what friends would do. And don't interpret any of her gestures as more than friendship. If anything she does seems inappropriate, say, "Please don't do that."

If she wants more than friendship she can let you know.
Regards,
Kevin T.

Thank you for your words, that's basically what me and my GF think. I am also not sure how she even feels about a poly relationship cause even though I explained to her that I was poly, I am not sure if she truly grasps it. Since she outright started deniying things I had no time to explain it either way.

I guess I will go for LC for now and not try to engage much.

 

[Xevyon]

Yeah, after reading through the thread I think she felt embarrassed after being rejected.

Hello, thank you for your reply. Could you elaborate on what you said? It was me that was rejected not her...

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Xevyon, I really feel for you! This was very cruel

Even if this girl DOES overtly tell you she is interested in a romantic relationship with you, do you really want to engage with someone who plays these types of games?

 

[MsEmotional]

What were her interactions with your girlfriend like during this time?

I ask because it sounds to me like she was trying to see if she could tempt you into cheating — whether she wanted to actually follow through or not, she probably wanted to see if you would go for it as a power trip. She probably imagined a scenario in which you lustfully beg to her and she dramatically says, “oh but we must!’t! You have a girlfriend!” And you say, “all I want is you! I will do anything to have you!” Etc etc etc

When she found out that you and your girlfriend were poly (a scenario she hadn’t considered when she was coming on to you) she didn’t know what to do and so she just denied it all.

 

[Xevyon]

What were her interactions with your girlfriend like during this time?

Hello there, thank you for your response. Well, we have been friends since 2014, and I have been dating my girlfriend since 2015.
My girlfriend always felt her personality a bit off, kind of "trying too hard", but she didn't have trouble with her at all.
They even chatted on occasion on Fb, etc.

Now, specifically in this case it was different, my girlfriend felt she was being much more fake, she didn't like her around.
I told her it might be possibly cause of issues with her mother who obligated her go to a course she likes, but is not her real vocation.
Add to that crazyness in college and she being relative young and naive and you have a bad recipe.

Now that is from the side of my girlfriend, from her side she didn't have any bad opinions, in fact she said she respected my girlfriend and our relationship. (which my GF says is total bullshit and that she wants to say that to seem good.)

That analysis you make is not one that I considered, but at same time I have been shunning it cause it seemed just too terrible.
I did have some urges to really kiss her, just to test if she would kiss back as i was like 95% sure she would. But I didn't want any messy situation so I ended up just leaving it at that.
As I said, I took it in good faith and though talking with her would give me further insight. Unfortunely it didn't.

 

[Xevyon]

Xevyon, I really feel for you! This was very cruel

Even if this girl DOES overtly tell you she is interested in a romantic relationship with you, do you really want to engage with someone who plays these types of games?

Thank you for your reply
No, I won't play for sure. I will meet her only in specific circunstances once in a while and keep LC.
She has much maturity to gain and I don't want to be caught in that. I am too old to play teenage games.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Xevyon,
I am just wondering, what is LC? I couldn't find it using Google.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

Kevin -- LC = low contact. NC = No contact.

Xevyvon -- I think you could change this mindset to better protect yourself in future:

I did have some urges to really kiss her, just to test if she would kiss back as i was like 95% sure she would. But I didn't want any messy situation so I ended up just leaving it at that.

You did kiss and pet her. Not kissing on her mouth but you were going along with the making out stuff. And you went into all that without clarifying consent or intentions yourself. You thought you would deal with it later on when it got more "real." In future don't "test" like that. Don't wait til later. If you are playing cuddle bunnies it is already real.

You did tell your GF what was happening along the way. So that was good someone else knew about the weird happening.

Yet could still ASK what a person's intentions are toward you first before any kind of making out. And establish / clarify consent FIRST. Not later. If you are not interested, say so clearly.

Be really leery of dismissing it all as "teen stuff."

Years go my then BF (now DH) had a roomie. We were all in our 20s. The roomie had a girl stalker who was like 16. She lived in the neighborhood.
She would come over uninvited, call all the time, didn't like it when other women were around visiting "Bob" etc. Just hanging around being a nuisance.

I told him to get rid of her because it was weird and def inappropriate behavior. He was all "Oh, she's just a teen kid being all teen goofy because she's got a crush." He didn't want to be "mean" and tell the neighbor kid to get off his property and shoo.

Most of the his friends were yanking his chain like "Ooo here comes Bob's jailbait" or "Oooo here comes Bob's stalker." Bob didn't want to look like a wimp in front of his friends. But he had a big problem he was unprepared for in his young adulthood and he was not happy about it.

My spouse thought it was weird too but he was doing the "Not my business" thing and saying nothing. I was mad at him because he wasn't being a very good friend to Bob. My spouse was wimping out. So Bob had no help from my spouse either. My spouse was the roomie. He knew Bob didn't want her around. HE could have said "Kid, get off my property! Stop coming around here uninvited! Shoo!"

I was the only one telling Bob this is not right. And he needed to firm it up and tell her to go away because he's not interested. He's an adult, she's a teen girl.

Tell the neighbor parents that their daughter keeps coming over and throwing herself at him. He wants no problems so please take their daughter in hand. And if they don't, tell them he plans to start logging incidents to help him take out an injunction/restraining order.

If he needs help, ask his own parents for help. His boss, professors, minister, whoever. Basically make OTHER people aware and make some noise. So other people know this is going on and it is unwanted. Stop being all "oh she's just a kid" about it. Because that is not protecting himself.

He did nothing, and the creepy got worse. Then one night she let herself into the house uninvited when he was asleep and got into bed naked with him. He was dead asleep and there she is foisting herself on him. If it had been a MAN who was hanging about all creepy and ultimately broke into the house, got naked, and got into bed with a sleeping woman what would people say about that?

Did he call the cops about an intruder? No. Did he call her parents to come pick her up and tell her to quit bothering him? No. Did he tell her to get dressed and get the F out of his house? No. He was stunned and just didn't know what to do. Physically he could take her. But mentally he went helpless -- all "deer in the headlights." One minute he's asleep and the next he's waking up to this naked teen raping him.

That sometimes happens when people go into shock -- people "freeze." He was UNABLE to do any of that above and call for help.

Did he feel good the next day? No.

Then he REALLY had to get rid of her, and risk her flipping it around on him saying he raped her. Or her parents not wanting to believe it and taking it all out on him because it's their precious baby girl. When it was HER who was doing the creepy stuff all along.

He was really struggling for a long time after. Did he get help for sexual assault? No. Cuz dudes "don't get raped" and certainly not by teenage girls.

She has much maturity to gain and I don't want to be caught in that. I am too old to play teenage games.

She might not be like the stalker chick Bob had but you def don't need weird problems. Def keep away from her.

In future with her or others? Don't go "testing" with mild make out stuff to see if it is real. Ask for clarification and consent up front.

It's not a question of being "too old to play teenage games." You were acting in good faith and didn't mean her any harm. But I don't think you were acting in good faith toward yourself because you did not establish consent up front. Could protect yourself better than that.

Because you never know if people will flip things around on you and look at what happened. She DID flip things around.

Just because you don't mean her any harm? Doesn't automatically mean she means you no harm.

It's not like only guys can be users. I'd like to think charitably like maybe she's misguided/young. But in case she's NOT? Be careful.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Re: LC = Low Contact, ah that makes sense.

 

[Xevyon]

You did kiss and pet her. Not kissing on her mouth but you were going along with the making out stuff. And you went into all that without clarifying consent or intentions yourself. You thought you would deal with it later on when it got more "real." In future don't "test" like that. Don't wait til later. If you are playing cuddle bunnies it is already real.

Yeah... you are totally right. My lack of experience in poly world doesn't help either. I have always been used to just go with the flow and in general it did go well for me, specially cause before it was mono and I didn't have to be so strict about this things. Plus, I never had a case of physical contact to this degree where a girl was not interested either.

I guess it's my error to go by old experiences and not realise some people might be giving a miriad of signs without actually want to persue anything (or at least it's what she says in her case, to which me and my GF suspend our belief to).

The closest I had was a few years back when I was close with a girl and she seemed to be into me too, then she end up not wanting anything. But at least in that circunstance there was no physical thing, so even if it was also crappy it was not like this.

Wow that's a crazy story Galagirl, glad nothing bad happened out of it. I mean it was already bad as it is, but still...

She might not be like the stalker chick Bob had but you def don't need weird problems. Def keep away from her.

Yeah not crazy in that way, I know. Is even hard for me to call her crazy, I considered her someone close to me before. We never had any dramas other then her absence after the end of 2016. But I mean, compared to this, is like a whole side of her I didn't even suspect and I think because she was "familiar" I felt safe.
This is definitly something I would not just let happen if I hadn't felt that security, which was obviously misguided.

In future with her or others? Don't go "testing" with mild make out stuff to see if it is real. Ask for clarification and consent up front.

It's not a question of being "too old to play teenage games." You were acting in good faith and didn't mean her any harm. But I don't think you were acting in good faith toward yourself because you did not establish consent up front. Could protect yourself better than that.

Because you never know if people will flip things around on you and look at what happened. She DID flip things around.

Just because you don't mean her any harm? Doesn't automatically mean she means you no harm.

It's not like only guys can be users. I'd like to think charitably like maybe she's misguided/young. But in case she's NOT? Be careful.

Galagirl

Damn, that one really hit hard. It's specially bad because at one point I was her to go to emotional support....
She told me she stopped asking for help cause she felt too much of a burden on me. But who knows, I don't know anything anymore.

I will remember your words. Better safe then sorry, specially since with polyamory that extra openess is required and I should not wait to know relevant information like that.