Love from a poly person isn’t worth as much?

Yes, yes, we must include all the qualifiers all the time. Some do this, some others do that.

And we have zero information about his motivations. We always read the text through our own lenses.

This all became a bit repetitive a few days ago. He's married. He's not enough for her. End of story.

The horse is dead. The flogging only bothers the one swinging the whip.

Evie, if you're bored with this thread, there's no need to post about how it's a dead horse, when someone new comes onto it and has something of value to say.

I agree with a lot of what Schrodinger said. I feel she added value to the discussion.

In my personal experience, my female nesting partner and I are both poly and pansexual. We love each other deeply madly and consistently. We live together and have no desire to move one of our other partners in. However, Pixi has been seeing her bf for over 5 years, and he also does not want to share his house with her. He likes his space. He likes only seeing her 2 or 3 overnights a week. Now, I am 20 years older than Pixi, maybe I will pass on before she does and at that point move in with her OSO, who knows...

Another point, if Sept91 and her bf's wife both do not date because their shared partner would get "mopey," they still have the option to date others. And let the guy handle or manage his own emotions about his women being with others. That is a common trope in poly. One partner wants multiple partners and is ecstatic to have variety, but gets all jealous when one of the partners also gets another partner. Healthy poly relationships are based on fairness and equality. It may not be fun to deal with that jealousy, but you CAN deal with it, despite your jealousy (feelings of inadequacy, fear of loss, etc.) and move on to being OK with it, or even having compersion.

I don't like to hear that Sept91 is bullying her partner and being passive aggressive. There are other ways to deal with her problems head on that don't involve punishing her guy for his desire to love her and keep her in his life. If poly really doesn't fulfill her, she could date another guy while keeping her present guy. Or she could break up with him and either stay there and start to date, seeking a mono guy, or move home where she has more family and friends, and date there.

On the other hand, the relationship is only one year old. The NRE is worn off. First year forming, second year storming, third year norming. Maybe this relationship can grow and evolve, once Sept is more educated about her poly options, and can feel loved, and can feel cared for, etc.

I definitely don't recommend cohabiting as a V unless and until issues are sorted. Maybe her bf wants her to move in, but the wife is territorial and doesn't want another woman full time in her living space. It sounds like both women are a bit unhappy about polyamory, but are going along with it to prevent bf being "mopey." That's not healthy.
 
I don’t think he does because he hasn’t known me as long.
I also feel like he tries too hard to make me happy. Does that make any sense? Like it’s not a natural flow, but he’s trying very hard and I feel like he can’t keep this up for very long. I also feel myself being abusive towards him because of my resentments. Like not being affectionate or giving him the silent treatment.
It’s too hard to give my all to someone who only gives me half of his. I feel like it’s important he knows I’m not happy with him all the time and I can feel myself being a bit of a bully sometimes.

I don’t think he treats me as an object? He hasn’t forbid me to date anyone else. Just stated that he wouldn’t be as happy. He has the same attitude about his wife dating others. She says when she brings it up, he gets mopey and sad.

Love is not a thing that can be divided. What is half of a love?
 
Love is not a thing that can be divided. What is half of a love?

'Love' may not be a divisible thing. But time, attention, priority--these are. And we feel loved based on these things. If she's getting half his time but expected to be available all of her time, I understand exactly what she's saying, and she's right. She's getting half his time while he's getting all of hers.

If she's expected to always have his back, while he has her back ONLY IF it doesn't conflict with his wife...yep, she's getting half while giving all.

These things are a reflection of love. And it's quite easy for most people to see, in those cases, how one person is giving more.
 
'Love' may not be a divisible thing. But time, attention, priority--these are. And we feel loved based on these things. If she's getting half his time but expected to be available all of her time, I understand exactly what she's saying, and she's right. She's getting half his time while he's getting all of hers.

If she's expected to always have his back, while he has her back ONLY IF it doesn't conflict with his wife...yep, she's getting half while giving all.

These things are a reflection of love. And it's quite easy for most people to see, in those cases, how one person is giving more.

But isn't that of her own construction? In other words, doesn't a mono partner feel that way because that is what society expects in monogamy? Is he really asking for all her time? And is it really realistic to say anyone can give someone 100% of their time.

So I agree for the most part. Her time is her time and she should be able to use it as she pleases. Their time should not be subjected to the whims if another party.

I wasn't really addressing those issues. I was more interested in the monogamist notion that love itself is divided and that means a poly person cannot truly love more than one person.
 
But isn't that of her own construction? In other words, doesn't a mono partner feel that way because that is what society expects in monogamy? Is he really asking for all her time? And is it really realistic to say anyone can give someone 100% of their time.

So I agree for the most part. Her time is her time and she should be able to use it as she pleases. Their time should not be subjected to the whims if another party.

I wasn't really addressing those issues. I was more interested in the monogamist notion that love itself is divided and that means a poly person cannot truly love more than one person.

While I agree with your statement that 'love' cannot be divided, that a person can love, ie, feel the emotion of love, equally strongly for two or more people, we can't separate that in practice from what it is to be involved with someone who is giving half their time and resources to another.

We can argue till we're blue in the faces if it's a societal construct for a person to expect more time and resources from another. It's beside the point The OP wants more. Most people will want more.

Of course nobody can give 100% of their time to another. They have to eat, sleep, go to work, coach little league or go to play practice. Maybe they have 50% of the pie left after all of that.

A poly person, however, has to do the same things--eat, sleep, work, other activities. Their 50% of the pie to give to a partner must now be divided between two. Therefore, each partner is getting 25%. Add a third partner as some have, and each partner is now getting about 18%.

I suppose we could work on changing society to accept a 'construct' that thinks 18% or 25% is fine. But why would we do that?

OP is not happy with it and there are plenty of people out there who will be happy to give more.

I haven't even started on the more subtle forms of division--such as who will be believed or supported if there's a conflict? Who will be expected to always 'understand.' Who will be expected to treat the other like the queen bee?
 
I disagree. I think they are separate issues. "I need them to spend more time with me" does not equate to "They don't love me". At least not to me. I've been on both sides of the time issue.

Again, I'm not faulting the OP for wanting monogamy. I'm just tired of hearing that poly people can't really love anyone or that our love is not worth as much, like in the title of this thread.
 
While I agree with your statement that 'love' cannot be divided, that a person can love, ie, feel the emotion of love, equally strongly for two or more people, we can't separate that in practice from what it is to be involved with someone who is giving half their time and resources to another.

We can argue till we're blue in the faces if it's a societal construct for a person to expect more time and resources from another. It's beside the point The OP wants more. Most people will want more.

You want more. You tried polyamory, briefly, felt mistreated and gave up on it. I still disagree "most people would want more," ie: more time and resources from a partner.

In monogamist culture, if you live with one romantic partner, day in day out, for decades, you begin, in many if not most cases, to take them for granted. While perhaps trying to suppress it, our mind and desires wander to fantasies of relating romantically and sexually to others. You mentally undress and fuck people you see on the street. You read romantic literature, or erotica, follow and discuss the love lives of celebrities, watch romantic comedies, read about the love lives of kings and queens and nobility and villians of history (or TV shows or movies about them), watch porn, etc. You fantasize about being polysexual or polyromantic. This can not be denied. Romance novels and movies and TV shows, erotica, celebrity magazines and websites, pornography for sale or for free now on the internet, are hugely popular.

So much for monogamy! It's not real. It's just a convenient way to hold society together, all based on the legally married hetero male/female lifelong pair bonding, which is a basic way to ensure the success of raising the next generation of humans, to ensure the survival of the species.

There are other ways to raise children not based on monogamy. It can be argued that tribal life is actually a safer more stable way to protect children (because of multiple adults being responsible for all the children), and it has only been left behind because of economics causing the growth of cities, the dissolving of tribes, etc., etc.

Monogamy (or polygyny as it was in Biblical times) is also based on a patriarchal society, where men rule over women.

We all share our love with many, if we are healthy members of society. Putting all your love eggs into one basket, all focused on one other person in a claustrophobic monogamy, is detrimental to emotional growth and health. It's better to accept that many people in your lifetime will love you, and you will love them. Or you end up like Michael Pence (our VP), who can't even be alone in a room with a woman other than his wife-- which is laughable!

Some women are so dependent on their one man, they will neglect their children in order to put his needs first, as if he is on a pedestal. Some counselors (religious or secular) still recommend this. They'll tell you to neglect the children if the man needs to have sex, for example. Let a baby cry, let a distressed child be locked out of the bedroom, because the man's need for sexual release is paramount. His "need" for an orgasm in a vagina trumps all other humans' needs.

Let's face it, you will love several romantic/sexual partners over a lifetime. Sometimes more than one at a time. You will also love your platonic friends, your parents, siblings, grandparents, other relatives. You will care for your colleagues. You might be a doctor, nurse, teacher, minister, and love your students, parishioners or patients. All these people need some of your time. If you have beloved animal companions, they also deserve your time, for care, for exercise.

So to quibble about time percentages (he gets X%, she gets XX%, he gives more percent of time than she does, etc.) is ridiculous. We all work out how to share our time with all our loved ones, relatives, friends, students, pets. We also must love ourselves with a good dose of me-time for self care, or we become martyrs.

I assert that giving 100% of our time to one partner for life is an unhealthy expectation or obsession. It can lead to self-subsumation in a relationship, where we lose all sense of our individuality and become ill with co-dependence, where we can't make a move as an individual, because our one partner owns us; everything must be done as a couple, or extreme distress in the form of jealousy taints our lives.


Of course nobody can give 100% of their time to another. They have to eat, sleep, go to work, coach little league or go to play practice. Maybe they have 50% of the pie left after all of that.

A poly person, however, has to do the same things--eat, sleep, work, other activities. Their 50% of the pie to give to a partner must now be divided between two. Therefore, each partner is getting 25%. Add a third partner as some have, and each partner is now getting about 18%.

I assert that giving smaller percentages of time to others is healthier than expecting one love object to give 100% of time left after work, eat, sleep, etc.

For an example, my live in partner Pixi is a camp director. For about 10 years, as a counselor and now director, she has spent the entire summer working at a camp for kids with special needs. I have no problem having her gone all summer. I know those kids need her love and direction and encouragement. She also needs to love children and can't have kids of her own. And she grows being loved and respected by her colleagues on the leadership team at camp. And by mentoring young counselors.

On my end, we are very much together most of the year, the other three quarters. So, I don't mind when she's gone in the summer. I get more me time. I get to watch the TV shows and movies I like that she might not like as much. I can read more. I get to spend time with friends. I get more sleep. I have less cooking and dishes to do, less clutter around the house. It's just more peaceful in general!

And when she does return, absence has made our hearts grow fonder, and we reconnect madly, and appreciate each other more after the break. We never take each other for granted.

And our relationship is further protected by our polyamory. Our other lovers/partners/sweeties provide a thing or two we can't give each other, so we are not tempted to stray and cheat to get those needs met.

I suppose we could work on changing society to accept a 'construct' that thinks 18% or 25% is fine. But why would we do that?

Because it may actually be a healthier and more honest way to live.
 
Back
Top