The First Broken Heart

Hierarchical polyamory is so confusing sometimes. I find it to be a useful thing at the beginning, but after a time, vetoes, primary/secondary and all that get tiresome and don't work anymore. Perhaps this is where you are heading. Why label yourself? You can describe Jolene as you see fit, and so can she. If she has moved on to someone more suitable as a partner for her everyday needs, then that is a good thing, no? You aren't as available, but that doesn't mean you are worthless to her.

After one has started a polyamorous relationship, it becomes all about negotiating boundaries rather than vetoes, and primary/secondary relationships. I am finding that far more respectful and workable.

I am wondering if you have had a chance to read around the forums a bit. Do some searches; look at the stickies. You might find some stuff helpful for your situation, your dynamic, in general.
 
boundaries

Well part of the problem was that I felt the boundaries kept shifting without any negotation or discussion. Each week we would meet, she would change a boundary unilaterally without asking me, just presenting it as a fact. At least that is how I felt. As soon as I would adjust, she would change it again, until I finally couldn't take it any more
 
StrangerinKS said:
Well part of the problem was that I felt the boundaries kept shifting without any negotation or discussion. Each week we would meet, she would change a boundary unilaterally without asking me, just presenting it as a fact. At least that is how I felt. As soon as I would adjust, she would change it again, until I finally couldn't take it any more
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I am curious - can you share some examples?
 
sure

Well, within a five week period, i went from "the only lover she ever needed other than her husband" and "her main love" to "I am spending time with person-X because I am lonely, but he is just for fun, you are the one I love" to "I love person-X, but I love you more" to "I love you and person-X equally" to "I love you, but person-X is now my main priority."

I know my insecurities were a big issue. She said she understood how the rapid changes could make me insecure, but then said that part of the reason for the rapid changes was because of my insecurity. I expressed my insecurity as calmly as possible...there were no accusations or yellling or anything...in fact we were usually in bed holding each other during these discussions. I usually just got sad and cried a little, then could pull myself together and tell her I would adapt.

Please remember that this was the first time with something like this for me, I tried as hard as I could to adapt to these changes, and up until the end I was doing well, but in the end the last change just broke me. I felt like i was in a no-win situation.

Now I look back and think I could have given it more time, but it is too late now.
 
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more

I really wanted her to be happy...and I had no problems sharing her sexually. But I just couldn't adapt that quickly to sharing her emotionally. It was just too fast for me.

At our last meeting, I asked her what she would do if she were in my situation. She told me that she wouldn't be able to stand it, that she would leave. I told her that I needed time to think about it. I thought about it for several days, after many tears and discussions with my wife I decided to end it, but now regret the decision, thinking that if I had worked more on my insecurity maybe it could have worked out.
 
That isn't what I call boundary setting. Boundary setting would come after that conversation. It would be something along the lines of discussing when you would see her, what you feel comfortable with her sharing with him and what you feel comfortable her sharing with you, renegotiating the time you spend together... etc... not her telling you her feelings and what men she is dating.

Crying and telling her that she can do whatever is not negotiating boundaries also. Its avoiding and letting someone lead your life by their rules... no one is at fault here but you I think... she was telling you how she feels and what has changed for her and you seemed to of bowed out because instead of standing up for what you need and how you feel you let her walk all over you and she doesn't seem to of really wanted to do that if you ask me.
 
more

I guess I don't understand what i was supposed to do. She would ask me what I needed to make all of this OK, and I would say things like "still see me once a week and continue daily electronic contact (text, email, etc) and when I need something extra I will ask for it."

As she increased the amount of time with the other guy, the electronic contact slowed down and eventually ceased. When it ceased, I asked her to resume it, and she did for a few days before reducing it and ceasing it again.

So on the one hand you guys think I was too possessive, but on the other hand I wasn't assertive enough? These things seem contradictory to me.
 
Answer

Hello, I've experienced some of the feelings you now have recently, although in an entirely different situation. Do you have an iPod or similar? The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolley from audible.com made a huge difference in my life. I no longer have any negativity in my life, she is still madly in love with her boyfriend and we're more in love than we ever have been in 16 years. I think it's possible you could find some of your own answers there:
 
tolle

I've read Tolle's work and a lot of other spiritual stuff and have found it very helpful. My insecurities got out of control when I lost my spiritual grounding. I feel, in a way, like I failed some sort of test here and let fear rule my life in this matter rather than love.

I've got a poly-friendly counselor that i'm going to be talking with this afternoon. I'd like to get her input before I proceed further.
 
I don't think you've failed. Its more like your confidence is low and why shouldn't it be, its your first go around.

If she wasn't texting then perhaps you could of texted her or agreed to every second day maybe... The negotiation should of continued I reckon, complete with expressing how you feel and what needs you need met and requests of how she and you could work on that. A lot of what went on seems to be about her getting through her NRE and coming to a place of balance. That takes time and work, all doable though. Any new person creates imbalance in a tribe.
 
talk

Had a good talk with my counselor today. She thinks the relationship may be salvagable but that it will take time for everyone to settle down. She advises me to avoid any over-the-top moves right now, to work on my insecurities and get myself re-grounded psychologically and spiritually and to refocus my energies with my wife again. Once I am more stable and less emotional about it, she thinks that that will be the time to see if this can be rebuilt, even if as just a friendship.
 
it helps

It helps, but I keep getting these waves of agony throughout the day. I haven't felt anything this horrible since high school.

I really want to reach out to her right now, but it just seems premature.
 
email

Well she reached out to me today...got a couple of emails, she apologized for hurting me, doesn't know if we can just be friends or not, requests more time to think and heal.
 
a meeting

Well I had breakfast with my ex on Tuesday. It was an emotional but civil and adult conversation. She wants to be friends, but isn't sure she can, since she still thinks of me as a lover and isn't sure she can adjust that back to just friends. I agree with her, I'm not sure I can either. Despite the awkwardness and pain of it all, there was still the old electricity, when we looked at each other in the eye, and when we hugged.

She said that even though she knew I loved her and she loved me, she wasn't surprised by the breakup, and that she was thinking about doing it herself. She agreed with me that our relationship had become unhealthy for both of us. She also said that everything I had said about the way she had hurt me was true, and she was sorry for it. She also said if she could do anything she could, it would be to go back and never meet the other guy in the first place. Too late for that...we have to live with the consequences of our actions. I talked about my insecurities, and how I have been working hard to resolve them. She talked about her insecurities as well, and we agreed that we both got carried away in the beginning with NRE.

She is going on a three-week business trip after Christmas, and we agreed we would meet sometime after she gets back, but in the meantime would step back. So that's where that stands. In a way, I feel like I have closure now. A big part of me thinks that I'll never see her again, but that's OK. My last memory will be of giving her a hug, and that's better than the way we parted.
 
To clarify, was this your lover's first poly relationship? You said it was the first for "both of you", but I'm unsure if that means you and lover, or you and wife.

If it was lover's first relationship, I'm betting she exploded out of the starting gate a titch.

I'd say, tell her you made a hasty decision, express interest in rebuilding, and then let her come around. You'll give her space, and have time to start working on your own insecurities in the meantime.

I also wonder if your wife is upset because she is the one who's been helping you deal with the fallout from this woman? No matter which way this goes, be sure to thank your wife and be cognizant of how much of your quality time is being taken up by the other relationship. I think if you can approach the relationship as a stronger, more confident person, this will put your wife more at ease.
 
Oh hey, there was a whole 'nother page to this thread that I didn't read before posting my reply. :eek:

Glad you've got some closure, and a happy memory to part on, if that is what it turns out to be.
 
answers

Yes, this was my first poly relationship, and my lover's first as well, although both her and her husband and me and my wife have dabbled (successfully) in swinging without problems. The problem this time came when deep emotions got involved.

She seems happy with her new guy and her husband, and I'm glad for that, although as I said she told me Tuesday that she wishes she could take it all back and have just stuck with me in the first place. I'm not sure what to make of that.

My wife and I are doing well. It has been very stressful for us. My wife was strongly, STRONGLY supportive of the relationship with my lover at first, but she now believes that my lover treated me badly and is very angry about it. She's been frustrated with me at times as well, feeling that I held on too long, and that towards the end I wasn't paying enough attention to her (my wife) even when my lover was making me miserable. We have been working hard at getting things back on an even keel and are doing well. Our relationship is incredibly secure, which is why our swinging adventures have worked well, and why we were willing to give poly a try.

The issue was never jealousy about or from my wife...I got jealous about my lover.
 
StrangerinKS said:
After thinking about it the last few days, I have to agree with both of you. The breakup was premature on my part...this could have been fixed, or at least I needed to give it more time. This was the first poly experience for either one of us, and the mistakes are clear.
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Nah. I'll disagree with RP.

She was toying with you. When you were relatively near by and available, she was happy to play. When you went away for a bit, she found a toy closer and decided to play with that one.

What bothers me in the scenario is that she apparently has little regard for you--no discussion of how much interaction you need on a daily basis and just dropping you from the texting, calling, etc.

It's quite a simple thing: believe what people DO. She can say anything she wants. It's what she actually does that tells you what you need to know. If she stops with the daily contact, it means she really doesn't want the daily contact and you aren't important enough to her now for that sort of interaction.

That's a clear message, I believe.
 
could be

Could be Autumnal....certainly your view accords with my wife's take on the situation.

On the other hand this morning I got an email from her saying that she missed me, longs for me, still loves me, and wishes we could have found a way to make it work but isn't sure she can just be friends because when we saw each other earlier in the week, all she could think of was how much she still wanted to be with me, and that she is so sorry she had hurt me and wishes she could take it all back. I don't know what to think, really.

You are right though...all through this, her words said one thing but her actions said another.
 
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