KT's Blog

LovingRadiance said:
I put some links on my blog for you KT. They're on the "links" page, right at the top. ;)

Good luck!
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Thanks LR - I'll take a look! And thanks for your PM - I have a lot of reading to do! :)

Kat
 
sage said:
You seem to be finally understanding that you have to heal yourself before your can be of sustained use to anyone else. I'm sure there is a wonderful woman underneath all your angst and dis-ease but in order for her to come out you have to give her your best attention.
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Excellent!
I struggled for a long time with "needing" someone to (pick your thing and put in list here, there was a long list). One of the hardest was that I wanted to start living a healthier life-but I "needed" Maca and the family to do it with me.

Then, one day I realized that I CAN have what I want regardless of what they want. I chose to start eating healthier, working out more regularly, seeing my Dr. yearly, dealing with dental maintenance yearly, etc. I can't begin to tell you how much better I feel.

Small irony-they were all SO AGAINST it when I was whining and pressuring them to "help me". Now that they see me doing it-they all want "in on it". ;)

Wait for someone to make you admirable, stay pathetic and miserable.
Become something people can legitimately admire, they'll flock to you.

;)

KatTails said:
I need him to help me, to support me, the validate me, to accept me - but he can't. So now - I am left by myself. It's taken me this long to realize it and to stand up on my own 2 feet and to give myself the love and attention that I deserve. No one else can or will do it for me. I just wish that it didn't take the destruction of our marriage for me to figure it out. I deserve to be happy and healthy and to be loved.
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Red by me.
You say need, but it's not true. It FEELS true, it sounds true. But it's not true.
You WANT him to help you, support you, validate you, accept you.
AND
wanting that is perfectly reasonable and normal.

BUT-you don't need him to do it.
You DO need YOU to do those things for you.

IF you do those things for you-even if others do also, it's all positive.
IF you don't do those things for you-even if others do also, you won't feel it when they do.

There's a book I read recently. It talks about how we can't FEEL the real love that people try to give us etc etc.. It was a good book. It's the 4th one listed on my "books" page in my blog. :) (easy reading too).

There are some great "self-help" and motivational books listed on there-with short explanations of what I liked about them. :)
 
KatTails said:
It's taken me this long to realize it and to stand up on my own 2 feet and to give myself the love and attention that I deserve. No one else can or will do it for me. I just wish that it didn't take the destruction of our marriage for me to figure it out. I deserve to be happy and healthy and to be loved.
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You are not alone in this particular situation. Things in my marriage came to a head last August, I filled out all the divorce papers filled out and was about to file when I called a marriage councelor last minute. I told my husband that he either goes with me or I will file. We did go and some things started to improve, but less than two months later I was contemplating suicide and nearly filed at that time.

It was this last time that I realized that I had so isolated myself and was only associating with my husband friends and aquaintances that I had no one to turn to for support. This was my own doing and it made me take a real hard look at what I had been doing for the last 19 years. I don't even know why or how it happened. I had to make a concience decission to make a change in who I was and how I was treating myself. I have made a few steps to re-involve myself in hobbies I enjoy, I am looking at joining a group or two that are just for me.

I have also taken a good hard look at how I relate to others. With close friends and family I'm very outgoing, outspoken and opinionated, but get me in a group of my husbands friends and a few strangers and I turn into a mouse. What's with that? I decided that I don't want to be the mouse anymore, I want to be me and if it bothers them, then Fuck'em. I feel much better about myself. I am my own person now and not just my husband's spouse.

After 19 years of marriage, it was easy for both parties to get complacent and demanding. There are also nearly as many years for resentments to build, one right on top of each other. We had been saying the same thing to each other for years and yet it never occured to either of us that we weren't using the same dictionary and therefore had no clue why the other was really upset. When it just the two of you these things usually get ignored and sept under the rug.
 
KatTails said:
Sourgirl - at times I wish so too. When you say "see things for what they really are" - I'm not exactly sure what you mean. My hamster wheel is spinning and I'm thinking of a few ways I could take that. Please feel free to PM me if you want to clarify. Your post has really made me think.....
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Ok,..I will pm. I have no fancy advice, but at least you have pm`s to read, if the blogs get to be to much. :)
 
SNeacail said:
After 19 years of marriage, it was easy for both parties to get complacent and demanding. There are also nearly as many years for resentments to build, one right on top of each other. We had been saying the same thing to each other for years and yet it never occured to either of us that we weren't using the same dictionary and therefore had no clue why the other was really upset. When it just the two of you these things usually get ignored and sept under the rug.
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It is amazing to me how much this paragraph sums up my experience, too. I was so angry and resentful that my husband didn't seem to value me as much as I felt he should--I felt, what does it matter if I love myself, if no one else seems to love me? But the piece I was missing was that, if I love myself *and treat myself with kindness* then I am not dependent on others to meet my needs, *I'm* meeting them--and then, I can see clearly whether or not this relationship actually fits for me. When I'm not worried about them being the one I *need* then I can actually see if they're the one that I *want*. I got angry--if he wasn't going to love me, then I was by golly going to take care of myself. I *deserved* time to myself. I *deserved* to have him watch the kids from time to time so I could do things for myself. I *deserved* to have friends who saw me as an adult, and not as Easy's wife or Moose's mom--people who saw an *individual* who was valuable in her own right. I think it was good for my marriage--I don't have to stew in resentment if I don't get pampering from someone else, I just take myself out for something nice--and I think it's good for my children to see that *taking care of yourself is important*.

Kat, this is totally relevant to you. You hurt so much because you are not valuing yourself. You think you *need* 2rings because you are not treating yourself right. I'm not advocating for divorce--I'm advocating for self-love. Learn to love yourself *first*. When you are the one responsible for the kind things, the self-pampering, it will help you to come at your marriage from a more stable, loving place. I honestly think that the best thing you can do for your marriage at this point is to put the priority on you for a while.

Eh, maybe I'm rambling. I've been running like mad for the last few days and operating on not enough sleep.
 
I've been following this blog for awhile and I haven't posted at all but I really agree with Lemondrop. I have a really hard time with loving myself and treating myself right. In fact, I'm leaving for therapy in a few minutes where we'll talk about just that. Everyone has been telling me a lot, lately, that I am the only one who can always care for me and always be there for me. I have been trying so hard to find it in some one else but I'm always disappointed. I'm glad to see you posting on here again even though we don't know each other. I hope that you can find the things you need. :)

One thing my therapist had me do was list 3 things I am looking for in close relationships and then turn the questions around on myself. So I'm looking for 1) long term relationships 2) w/ people who love me for me 3) and w/ people who treat me well. When I asked if I was that way for myself, the answers were pretty bleak. It made me think a lot.
 
Loving yourself first is extraordinarily transformative.

Have you ever heard people say that what makes a person attractive is their attitude, if they think they are attractive, they are more attractive...

It's the same sort of concept.
When you love yourself, care for yourself, take care of yourself-people are attracted to you for your loving, caring personality.
When you stop doing those things for yourself (many of us women after we leave highschool and have kids-because we start doing it for our kids and spouses instead) we lose the attractiveness...

If we turn it around-which seems ass backwards at first, we regain those attractive qualities, because we're giving them to ourselves.

Even "white knights" like a woman who can stand up on her own eventually.
Just like the ladies who go for "bad boys" eventually want a man who is a nice guy.
 
LovingRadiance said:
Wait for someone to make you admirable, stay pathetic and miserable. Become something people can legitimately admire, they'll flock to you.

You say need, but it's not true. It FEELS true, it sounds true. But it's not true. You WANT him to help you, support you, validate you, accept you. AND wanting that is perfectly reasonable and normal. BUT-you don't need him to do it. You DO need YOU to do those things for you.

IF you do those things for you-even if others do also, it's all positive. IF you don't do those things for you-even if others do also, you won't feel it when they do.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are 100% correct! I'm working on it - daily.

SNeacail said:
You are not alone in this particular situation. Things in my marriage came to a head last August, I filled out all the divorce papers filled out and was about to file when I called a marriage councelor last minute. I told my husband that he either goes with me or I will file. We did go and some things started to improve, but less than two months later I was contemplating suicide and nearly filed at that time.
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I'm sorry to hear you've had such a rough time too. It does help to know that others have gone through a similar situation and made it through. I have contemplated suicide several times over the past 2 years as the pain I'm going through is just too much to handle sometimes. There have been times when I was driving and seriously considered driving right off the side of the road. BUT - we have 2 children and I would NEVER EVER put them through that. I've experienced suicide first hand (one of my best friends in high school) and I've seen the devastation it causes. I'm not that selfish.

SNeacail said:
It was this last time that I realized that I had so isolated myself and was only associating with my husband friends and aquaintances that I had no one to turn to for support. This was my own doing and it made me take a real hard look at what I had been doing for the last 19 years. I don't even know why or how it happened. I had to make a concience decission to make a change in who I was and how I was treating myself. I have made a few steps to re-involve myself in hobbies I enjoy, I am looking at joining a group or two that are just for me.
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Good for you! I'm just now starting to build my own life and my own identity - separate from 2rings. After 20 years - it's not so easy - but I have to find myself again.

SNeacail said:
After 19 years of marriage, it was easy for both parties to get complacent and demanding. There are also nearly as many years for resentments to build, one right on top of each other. We had been saying the same thing to each other for years and yet it never occured to either of us that we weren't using the same dictionary and therefore had no clue why the other was really upset. When it just the two of you these things usually get ignored and sept under the rug.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! That is what happened to us - we became complacent with each other. One of our biggest issues right now is our communication. We used to be able to talk about anything and everything. But now - I can't go to him when I'm hurt or upset. He doesn't want to hear it. MG can do something hurtful and manipulative to me and when I try to talk to him about it - he gets angry at me and defensive of her. He blames me for things she does. There is so much resentment between us that we can't talk without it erupting into a fight. If we could talk, if I felt he was listening to and caring about what I had to say and if we could both make compromises then I have no doubt that this would be something we could work through.

Today my goal is to find a marriage counselor. However - if my husband refuses to work on his issues and make some changes, then it will be a waste of time. I can't do it alone.

Thank you!

Lemondrop said:
It is amazing to me how much this paragraph sums up my experience, too. I was so angry and resentful that my husband didn't seem to value me as much as I felt he should--I felt, what does it matter if I love myself, if no one else seems to love me? But the piece I was missing was that, if I love myself and treat myself with kindness then I am not dependent on others to meet my needs, I'm meeting them--and then, I can see clearly whether or not this relationship actually fits for me. When I'm not worried about them being the one I need then I can actually see if they're the one that I want. I got angry--if he wasn't going to love me, then I was by golly going to take care of myself. I deserved time to myself. I deserved to have him watch the kids from time to time so I could do things for myself. I deserved to have friends who saw me as an adult, and not as Easy's wife or Moose's mom--people who saw an individual who was valuable in her own right. I think it was good for my marriage--I don't have to stew in resentment if I don't get pampering from someone else, I just take myself out for something nice--and I think it's good for my children to see that taking care of yourself is important.

Kat, this is totally relevant to you. You hurt so much because you are not valuing yourself. You think you *need* 2rings because you are not treating yourself right. I'm not advocating for divorce--I'm advocating for self-love. Learn to love yourself *first*. When you are the one responsible for the kind things, the self-pampering, it will help you to come at your marriage from a more stable, loving place. I honestly think that the best thing you can do for your marriage at this point is to put the priority on you for a while.
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Lemondrop - thank you! I do agree with you. I have many issues that I need to deal with and I'm working on them - my self hatred being the biggest one. My husband having a girlfriend, putting her (and his) needs first, ignoring my feelings and needs, then making me feel bad about my feelings and needs - sure isn't helping me feel good about myself. No wonder my self esteem has plummeted and our marriage has fallen apart.
 
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ray said:
I've been following this blog for awhile and I haven't posted at all but I really agree with Lemondrop. I have a really hard time with loving myself and treating myself right. In fact, I'm leaving for therapy in a few minutes where we'll talk about just that. Everyone has been telling me a lot, lately, that I am the only one who can always care for me and always be there for me. I have been trying so hard to find it in some one else but I'm always disappointed. I'm glad to see you posting on here again even though we don't know each other. I hope that you can find the things you need. :)

One thing my therapist had me do was list 3 things I am looking for in close relationships and then turn the questions around on myself. So I'm looking for 1) long term relationships 2) w/ people who love me for me 3) and w/ people who treat me well. When I asked if I was that way for myself, the answers were pretty bleak. It made me think a lot.
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Hi Ray - thank you so much. I'm sorry about your breakup - I can see how much you are hurting. You are very lucky to have friends who are helping you through this. The friends I have think I should divorce my husband because they see what this has done to me. But it's not that easy. I wish I had someone who REALLY understood me. 2rings was always that person - but he's not anymore and that breaks my heart more than he'll ever know. That's what has pushed us apart.

Keep hanging in there and keep leaning on your friends for support.

Here's to hoping you and I will start giving ourselves the love and attention we need and deserve! :)

LovingRadiance said:
Loving yourself first is extraordinarily transformative.

Have you ever heard people say that what makes a person attractive is their attitude, if they think they are attractive, they are more attractive...It's the same sort of concept. When you love yourself, care for yourself, take care of yourself-people are attracted to you for your loving, caring personality.
When you stop doing those things for yourself (many of us women after we leave highschool and have kids-because we start doing it for our kids and spouses instead) we lose the attractiveness...

If we turn it around-which seems ass backwards at first, we regain those attractive qualities, because we're giving them to ourselves.

Even "white knights" like a woman who can stand up on her own eventually. Just like the ladies who go for "bad boys" eventually want a man who is a nice guy.
Click to expand...

Thanks LR. The hard part about loving myself is that I don't feel I deserve it - I never have. I feel that I deserve to be the woman whose husband is in love with someone else. That it's my fault. That I'm such a horrible wife and person that he had no other choice but to find someone else who had the qualities that I don't. And he found her. She is everything I'm not and everything he has always wanted. He is finally happy. And I'm more miserable than ever. I should have known that I wasn't good enough to have a man like him.

So right now - I'm in a deep, dark, depressive funk and the only one who can pull me out of it is me - and I don't know how and I don't have the strength to try. Plus - I'm comfortable here. I belong here. I know what to expect, yet I have no expectations.

Self love? Positive attitude? Self-esteem? They are all foreign to me. I know they are things I should have. I know they are things I should want. I know they are things that would attract people to me. But I can't find them and I have no idea where to start looking.

Pitiful, I know.
Whiny, probably.

But I'm being honest with myself and with all of you. What you see is what you get. I don't put on airs. I'm not fake. I'm not a liar. I'm not manipulative or conniving. I'm not trying to spin things to make myself look better. I'm being 100% honest about who I am and where I am in my life - which is in a really crappy place.

I know eventually I start to feel better. That I'll start to dig myself out of my deep, dark funk and find a way to a happier life - with or without 2rings.

But for today - I'm here, not there.
 
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Hoping you get there from here...soon

Funny. We both posted today at the same time approx.

MG can do something hurtful and manipulative to me and when I try to talk to him about it - he gets angry at me and defensive of her. He blames me for things she does.
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Not sure what you mean here. Let's get past these feelings KT. The accusations won't help the situation. There are a couple of things we could go over but I am not the one to point them out right now or on here. The marriage counselor may be able to help. I hope so. It has been a crazy two years of ups and downs. Aren't you exhausted? I am. I know I am out of piss for sure. Here's to a better tomorrow.
 
KatTails said:
*The hard part about loving myself is that I don't feel I deserve it - I never have. *I feel that I deserve to be the woman whose husband is in love with someone else. That it's my fault. That I'm such a horrible wife and person that he had no other choice but to find someone else who had the qualities that I don't. And he found her. She is everything I'm not and everything he has always wanted. He is finally happy. And I'm more miserable than ever. I should have known that I wasn't good enough to have a man like him.*

So right now - I'm in a deep, dark, depressive funk and the only one who can pull me out of it is me - and I don't know how and I don't have the strength to try. *Plus - *I'm comfortable here. I belong here. *I know what to expect, yet I have no expectations.*
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I hope you are seeing a therapist and possibly a medical professional because this is sounding more like long term clinical depression and should be addressed immediately!!!

It wasn't until my son started getting into depressive funks that I realized how emotionally draining these moods can be on everyone else. I can't even immagine the havoc this plays on the family if it's long term.

Make a list of things you do to contribute to your family and everything your good at. Ask your kids and 2Rings to do the same (I'll bet their list is longer than yours). Make copies of these lists and post them in the kitchen, the bathroom and near your computer. Look at them every day until you start believing it and accepting it.
 
NeonKaos said:
Kat, you know you can be as "whiny" as you want with me and I won't mind. Email me if you need to do that.
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Thanks Neon - I know! I'll try to email you later today.
 
SNeacail said:
I hope you are seeing a therapist and possibly a medical professional because this is sounding more like long term clinical depression and should be addressed immediately!!!

It wasn't until my son started getting into depressive funks that I realized how emotionally draining these moods can be on everyone else. I can't even immagine the havoc this plays on the family if it's long term.

Make a list of things you do to contribute to your family and everything your good at. Ask your kids and 2Rings to do the same (I'll bet their list is longer than yours). Make copies of these lists and post them in the kitchen, the bathroom and near your computer. Look at them every day until you start believing it and accepting it.
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I am seeing a counselor and I'm trying to get an appointment with a Psychiatrist (she's out of town until Monday) so I can try to get on a different medication. LR gave me a bunch of advice and some hope that with the right diagnosis and medication that I can get my emotions stabilized (in addition to my weight.)

Thanks!
 
KatTails said:
Absolutely! That is what happened to us - we became complacent with each other. One of our biggest issues right now is our communication. We used to be able to talk about anything and everything. But now - I can't go to him when I'm hurt or upset. He doesn't want to hear it. MG can do something hurtful and manipulative to me and when I try to talk to him about it - he gets angry at me and defensive of her. He blames me for things she does. There is so much resentment between us that we can't talk without it erupting into a fight. If we could talk, if I felt he was listening to and caring about what I had to say and if we could both make compromises then I have no doubt that this would be something we could work through.
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So much can be HOW we approach a subject. I've discovered that I'm not real good at "Non-violent Communication". My approach to certain issues and things that hurt me made my husband feel like I was attacking him, so no matter what it was, he felt backed into a corner and the need to come out swinging (verbally). The hurt/issue was valid, but my approach killed any possibility of support or correction from my husband.

Today my goal is to find a marriage counselor.
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GOOD!!!!

However - if my husband refuses to work on his issues and make some changes, then it will be a waste of time. I can't do it alone.
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STOP assuming the worst before giving it a chance. This is destructive thinking and will not make the situation better. This will not be fixed right away, it will take time and work. Some meetings will be better than others. I hate the meetings where we would spend the entire time re-hashing an arguement, but it was necessary and we were able to move beyond it afterward.

There have been times when I was driving and seriously considered driving right off the side of the road. BUT - we have 2 children and I would NEVER EVER put them through that.
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This was the only thing that has kept me alive at times also. One night, I drove by three hospitals, I pull into the parking lot of each one and sat for 20 minutes or more contemplating checking myself in.

Things have improved considerably since then, but that was just last Fall.
 
Thanks KT. :) It sounds like we're both taking some good steps to build our own lives and personal happiness. My mother struggles with chronic depression and it's something I deal with as well. It felt so good to think there might actually be help to improve it. I hope that you find the right balance of stuff to lift some of that burden.

I hope that you can find that person/those people who just get you at the deepest level, whether it's rebuilding that with 2rings or another person entirely. I think some one called them "anchors." They're certainly not easy to find. I have one really good friend who is that for me and she is beyond valuable. I feel so lucky to have her. I'm so sorry that you feel that disconnect with 2rings. It shattered my heart when I lost that with O. I think it is an incredibly painful experience to lose that.

I, too, vote not whiny. You've got a lot on your plate. The depression alone is huge. It makes all life's problems appear insurmountable and gargantuan. I am constantly trying to remind myself that there are solutions and I can do this. And I often feel whiny or like a broken record but sometimes the venting does help. It is so hard to see the proverbial 'light at the end of the tunnel.' I hope that those glimmers start to shine for you.
 
SNeacail said:
So much can be HOW we approach a subject. I've discovered that I'm not real good at "Non-violent Communication". My approach to certain issues and things that hurt me made my husband feel like I was attacking him, so no matter what it was, he felt backed into a corner and the need to come out swinging (verbally). The hurt/issue was valid, but my approach killed any possibility of support or correction from my husband.
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This is exactly what is happening with us. When an issue does come up - we both quickly get on the defensive and you can't have a constructive discussion when you are like that. My issues are valid - but he goes into defensive mode and is unable to listen, process and consider what I am saying and how I am feeling. Our talks are no longer constructive or helping us move forward.

SNeacail said:
STOP assuming the worst before giving it a chance. This is destructive thinking and will not make the situation better. This will not be fixed right away, it will take time and work. Some meetings will be better than others. I hate the meetings where we would spend the entire time re-hashing an arguement, but it was necessary and we were able to move beyond it afterward.
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You're right - I do that a lot. I need to find a way to stop that kind of thinking. I'm reading Radical Acceptance and that is talked about a lot. I get it. I understand it. I want to stop doing that. But it's automatic, it's hard to stop myself from doing it. But I'm trying.

SNeacail said:
This was the only thing that has kept me alive at times also. One night, I drove by three hospitals, I pull into the parking lot of each one and sat for 20 minutes or more contemplating checking myself in.
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I'm so sorry - I know how horrible that feels. I lost it so bad one night that 2rings said he almost had me committed out of fear for what I might do. It's a scary feeling to be that hurt, that devastated, that out of control. I'm glad things are looking up for you!

NeonKaos said:
The truth is, you do not come across as "whiny" to me. You just come across as someone who is at the end of her rope.
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I'm sure some would disagree with you. ;) And you're right - I am at the end of my rope. I'm just sick of feeling alone and misunderstood.

ray said:
I hope that you can find that person/those people who just get you at the deepest level, whether it's rebuilding that with 2rings or another person entirely. I think some one called them "anchors." They're certainly not easy to find. I have one really good friend who is that for me and she is beyond valuable. I feel so lucky to have her. I'm so sorry that you feel that disconnect with 2rings. It shattered my heart when I lost that with O. I think it is an incredibly painful experience to lose that.
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Thanks Ray - it is really hard and extremely painful. I'm living with the man I love - but we are in seperate rooms, barely talking, no touching, no "I love you's" - it's painfully hard. I wish I could have him back in my life - as my husband and as my best friend - but that's not possible right now. And like I said - my friends, while supportive and caring - are sick of seeing me crying and upset and don't understand why I am staying with him - so I am limiting how much I talk to them about all of this.

ray said:
I, too, vote not whiny. You've got a lot on your plate. The depression alone is huge. It makes all life's problems appear insurmountable and gargantuan. I am constantly trying to remind myself that there are solutions and I can do this. And I often feel whiny or like a broken record but sometimes the venting does help. It is so hard to see the proverbial 'light at the end of the tunnel.' I hope that those glimmers start to shine for you.
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Thanks. The problem is that I can't vent here too much and I can't vent to my husband - so I hold it in. And you can only hold so much in before you explode. I hope I can get my depression under control - quickly!

:) Kat
 
Try doing a google search for "words of affirmation" or "positive thoughts". Then see if you can sign up for something that will email you DAILY words of affirmation.
THEN

start writing them down and put it in your pocket each morning and every hour or so, take it out, read it and consider what it means.

My ex did that. He had a collection of positive affirmation cards and he always carried one in his pocket. Throughout the day (he smoked) when he got a cigarette he would read it-contemplate it and try to figure out how it fit his life TODAY.

It had an AMAZING affect on his demeanor. ;)

This link has a couple examples, you might be able to use them to create your own, write 'em on 3x5 cards and use them...



http://www.vitalaffirmations.com/affirmations.htm#affirmations for joy and happiness
 
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I remember reading that for a lot of people, words of affirmation actually lost their usefulness if you used them every single day, as it became too much of a habit. The article I read suggested having them three times a week instead and not always on the same day, to keep the "novelty".

However, in any case, starting off with every day sounds like a good plan to me. I would probably suggest trying to come up with your own though. I think it probably means more if you come up with something you like about yourself than if you read something pre-made and don't necessarily believe it to be the truth. I think saying nice things you feel don't represent yourself might even make yourself feel worse in comparison, if that makes sense?

I know a lot of people with a poor self image or self-esteem don't feel better when they get compliments specifically because they don't believe them. So I think starting up with things you know are good about you, as little or unimportant as they may seem, might be a good plan of action.

Then again, I've heard that for some other people "vaguer" words of affirmation (not specific to them) and making it a habit are what works. So you should probably see for yourself what helps you most :)
 
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