So confused... need to talk to someone with experience

[tercera]

Hi. I am new to this forum and this lifestyle. I have been feeling very lonely and confused! I feel I can´t talk to anyone about what´s happening to me, and I have so many questions. I am not even sure if what I am living can be classified as polyamory. I would really like to share my story, but please please be gentle. I have been feeling really vulnerable.

I am going to try to be as brief as I can.

English isn´t my first language, so please excuse me if my grammar isn´t very good.

 

[tercera]

I don´t even know where to start, but here I go.

I am a 30-year old woman. I have battled depression all my life. I have had male and female partners, and I´m fine with that.

I am a very lonely person. I haven´t had a partner in 8 years, and most of my energy goes into not being depressed. I just can´t establish healthy relationships with people. My past relationships have all been abusive, so I finally decided I preferred to be alone.

Well, about two years ago, I met a really nice couple, Bill (M62) and Bea (F53). I really liked them. We are very similar in what we like, the things we do, etc. They invited me over for dinner, etc.

A year later, I started having a really close friendship with Bea. We started spending a lot of time together. We talked about really intimate things. I started developing feelings for her. We talked about this. She said she felt them too, but she was married and couldn´t act on them.

At the same time, Bill started inviting me to visit museums, etc. We started spending more and more time together, but I didn´t feel anything for him. Then, one day, he declared his love to me, and he kissed me. I felt my world turn upside down. I told him we couldn´t do that, and nothing else happened.

I continued to spend time with Bea, and felt stronger feelings for her. We started going to my house. We spent some days together, in bed, watching movies, reading, talking... We started caressing each other, but she kept saying we couldn´t do more than that. At the same time, Bill kept insisting he wanted to be with me. We kissed and had a lot of intimacy. (I´m being vague on purpose.) He didn't know what I was living with her, and she didn´t know what I was living with him. I told her we should tell him, but she refused.

Then, one day, Bea discovered what was happening between Bill and me. She confronted him, and he phoned me. They talked as a couple and he said he was in love with me, but that he didn´t want to see me again because he didn´t want to put his marriage at risk. So, she said we could continue to be friends (him and me) as long as we didn´t have physical intimacy. She didn´t tell him what she had been doing with me!

She then confronted me. She cried a lot. I cried a lot. I told her what I felt for him, and what I felt for her. I told her I wanted to be with both of them. She kissed me, and we had sex.

I was so confused, because I thought she was going to end our friendship. I told her I didn´t want to be her mistress, and she told me we were going to be girlfriends. We made an agreement. I could have as many partners as I wanted, and we would continue to be together. She would continue to be with Bill, and I would continue to be friends with him, but I couldn't sleep with him. The only rules were that I didn´t have sex with him, and he couldn´t know what is happening between us. That has to continue being a secret, as she doesn't want to tell Bill what she feels for me.

That was two months ago. Since then, she and I have been having a steady girlfriend relationship. We have made two trips together, to spend the weekend. We also spend one day a week together.

I have continued to see Bill as friends. He hides from her and doesn´t want to tell her we meet, even though she said she had no problem with that. I tell her every time we meet, even if he doesn´t. He says he still has feelings for me. He says he loves me. He tries to kiss me, touch me, etc. I try to tell him no, but the truth is I love him too. I like being kissed by him and I like being with him. I like that he writes to me and phones me and is very gentle and caring.

But, at the same time, I don´t want to lose her. She has made very clear that everything will end if I get involved with him again. I love him, but I really really love her. My feelings for her are stronger than my feelings for him, but I still love him. I just feel so confused. I don´t understand how I can feel so strongly for both of them.

I don´t know how to deal with Bea being with Bill without being jealous.
I don´t like deceiving Bill and not telling him I love Bea.
I don't like being a secret.
I don´t like that Bea has to hide to be with me.
I don´t know how to manage the pain and loneliness I feel every time I have to say goodbye to her, knowing she will go to bed with him.
I feel so lonely. Everything is so intense when I´m with her, and then, everything just disappears.
I don´t know how to be with Bill without feeling what I feel.

I sometimes feel I´m no more that a plaything for the couple, but at the same time, I feel like a pathetic homewrecker. I am so afraid of destroying their relationship. I really like their relationship. I really want them to continue to be together. I don´t want to be excluded. I feel jealous sometimes.

I see they are just as confused as I am. This is new for them too, and we just don´t know what to do. She feels insecure, and he knows nothing about what is really happening.

Well, I have a lot more to say, but this is really long. I really really hope you can answer me and give me some perspective on this. I hope my long message doesn´t make you stop reading. Thank you so much for reading.

 

[redpepper]

Well, my friend, it sounds like you have come to the right place. Your story is not unlike others here who are on a similar journey, yet there is a big difference. It sounds like you would make a great triad if everyone gave up the lying, deceit and needless assumptions and ownership crap. Usually when people cheat, there is no hope for a successful triad. With you three I see a big difference, because the cheating that is going on is between you all, and only because no one wants to fess up.

This could all be so possible if everyone started being honest. Why is that so hard for them and you? I don't get it. What is the purpose in hiding everything? It seems rather ridiculous that you are all going behind each other's backs to love each other, when you all love each other. It's love! Love is good! Why taint it with cheating, especially when it isn't a matter of one person being left out of the loop? You all love each other. Usually people come on here cheating because one person IS left out of love. You don't have this situation, so give it up and start making plans to all be together.

I don't see why anything has to change here, other than everything go from being underground to above ground. You can have your night/day with each of them, and the only difference will be that they know about it. If there are other boundaries that need to be discussed, discuss them. Take the bull by the horns and get talking.

I can't stress enough how this could be so wonderful just by being honest and open. I have never seen a situation that could be so right where cheating is concerned. It's actually making me have goosebumps to know that you could all have something so special if only you would all get over whatever this hang up is that you have.

Do some reading here and see what other triads go through. Start with a tag search for "triad" and maybe "cheating." Then I would suggest reading about how to create a healthy foundation for a relationship by doing a tag search for "foundations" and "lessons." You will find many ideas and can take or leave what you like. Add to the list if you think of something else too, please, as sharing what works is so helpful to others.

Good luck.

 

[polyt]

Your story is not unlike others here who are on a similar journey. Yet there is a big difference. It sounds like you would make a great triad if everyone gave up the lying, deceit and needless assumptions and ownership crap. Usually when people cheat there is no hope for a successful triad, with you three there is a big difference, because the cheating that is going on is between you all, only because no one wants to fess up.

I completely agree. You guys could be a great triad. You all seem to love each other very much. Why not share it? I think you all need to sit down and have a big conversation about your needs and wants for your relationships, no lying, complete honesty only.

 

[Quath]

Like the others, I think this could be a great triad if everyone could be honest. I think you should talk to them about polyamory. Get them to open up somewhat. If you don't get everyone acting honestly, it will probably end badly.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[tercera]

Thank you soooo much for answering my post. I had so much hope in getting the type of responses you wrote. I really appreciate them. The moment I read I had come to the right place, I felt so relieved. It´s so important to feel other people understand and have gone through similar experiences.

Now, as to what you all tell me, I agree. I had never seen everything so clear, but now I know what´s wrong with our arrangements. The problem isn´t that I´m jealous, or that we can´t be together all the time. The problem is the cheating. I feel so lonely because I´m underground. I feel a lot of pressure by having to keep so many secrets and live hiding the most important thing in my life from everyone else. I can´t even touch her when we are out in public, because she just feels so guilty.

So, I now know what I would really like to live. I think that´s a really big step. But how do I get there?

I have discussed the possibility of opening our feelings with him. He was very clear and told me he would never do that. He told me he really loves me, but would rather go through the pain of never seeing me again before risking his marriage and having the possibility of making her feel insecure. I can understand him, because he doesn´t know what she is doing with me. He says I am young and that gives me a great advantage in her eyes. I disagree. She is a bit fat and he is scared our differences in body shape will make her feel inadequate. I think she is absolutely beautiful. I think this idea is completely stupid. But I can understand his fear.

I have also discussed this issue with her. She knows what I feel for both of them, and she knows what he feels for me. She says she feels vey insecure and she thinks she would feel very jealous. She is very scared of all the new things. This is her first lesbian relationship and she says it´s very difficult for her to process that. She also says they have been living a closed relationship for 30 years, and she doesn´t want to talk these things with him.

I can understand all that, and I can imagine how difficult it would be to have to question everything that you have built for so long. I don´t understand why they can´t talk about their feelings, but that is how it is, and I don´t know what to do with that.

Do you think it´s a matter of time? Do you think it´s my place to try to talk these things with them, or do you think I should just let them talk them out as a couple? The problem is, they don´t talk.

I have been talking with her about this. I have been very sincere about what I feel, but do you think that is all I can do?

We have talked a lot about her "selfishness." She says she feels very guilty for being so selfish and not wanting to share what we are living. She asks me if I think it´s selfish, and I tell her I do, but I would rather live with that selfishness than lose her.

What do you think about that? I´m scared I will lose myself and turn into this woman that just lets her partner do anything to her, just because she´s afraid of losing her. Is that what I am doing?

We have also talked about the inequity in our relationships. Bea says she feels bad for giving me so little and asking me to remain a secret. She says she realizes her need of being a secret is just as valid as my need of being public, but she says she can´t do anything different to what she is doing. She says she is scared I am going to get tired of this situation and decide to leave. I tell her that I can´t say that won´t happen, and that I really hope we can build something solid that can last, and that I´m not sure if I will be able to live this situation for very long. What do you think? Do you think it´s just a matter of time until she feels more secure, as long as I tell her how I feel?

Now, as to what happens to me. I am SOOOOOOOO scared they will talk everything out, realize they want to be together, and leave me outside. I really wish they could talk about their feelings between them, and towards me. But I am so scared to. What if they realize I´m not worth it? What if they start communicating between them, and no longer need me? And what if they decide to open the relationship? Will I be able to live with something so open? I´m just so scared.

I feel as if I keep hearing them and understanding them, and no one listens to my fears.

Today, I told Bea I had found this forum and that I felt very relieved about having someone to talk to. We talked about it.

I asked her why she needed to keep everything a secret. She said she didn´t know, but she promised to think it over. We are going to talk about it on Thursday. I love that we can talk about these things, even if things don't change (at least immediately).

She also asked me for help in trying to find a similar forum for her. I think that will be a great step for her too. I´m not sure if I will give her this forum. Part of me wants her to read what I wrote, but part of me wants to have a private place where I can say everything without fear. What do you think?

Well, this message is really long, again. I hope you still read it and give me your opinions. Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOO SOOOOOOOOOO much for your support.

 

[tercera]

I forgot to tell you I agree completely in that it´s ridiculous to be hiding behind each other´s backs. I also forgot to tell you I will start reading today what you suggested, and I might print it and share it with them. Thank you so much for those suggestions.

 

[IndieSolo]

If being honest and open with both of them is of primary importance to you, then you should honor that. Be true to yourself.

I were you, I would surprise them with a visit at home, at a time when you know both of them will be there, and just walk in and say, "Look you two, we need to talk. I'm with both of you. Let's be honest with each other about what's been going on, or I will leave right now and neither of you will see me again." And mean it. Walk out and don't look back if they are unwilling to discuss it.

Although love and sex can be gratifying, you are obviously tormented by the dishonesty. You need to maintain your integrity, not give in to their stupidity. Really, all these secrets and whispers are just ridiculous to put yourself through. I keep picturing you running back and forth between the two of them like you're in a Marx Brothers movie or French farce or something. If it weren't your actual life it would be a comedy of errors!

 

[tercera]

If being honest and open with both of them is of primary importance to you, then you should honor that. Be true to yourself.

I were you, I would surprise them with a visit at home, at a time when you know both of them will be there, and just walk in and say, "Look you two, we need to talk. I'm with both of you. Let's be honest with each other about what's been going on or I will leave right now and neither of you will see me again." And mean it. Walk out and don't look back if they are unwilling to discuss it.

Although love and sex can be gratifying, you are obviously tormented by the dishonesty. You need to maintain your integrity, not give in to their stupidity.

Oh, if only I were so brave! It would be like a dream, being able to do that! I would feel so free! But I´m just so scared. I don't want to lose her. I feel so pathetic, being so afraid.

You're right. I´m being tormented. I feel so dishonest. I´m just not brave enough to risk what I have, even if that would give me the possibility of having something more.

I laughed a lot at your Marx Brothers reference. That´s exactly how I feel. I also feel it´s very comical.

I just talked to Bea via Skype. I opened the possibility of telling Bill what´s happening. We talked a lot about our fears, both at losing our relationship and about being dishonest. She says she´s scared Bill won´t understand and will ask her either to stop seeing me or propose that they separate and get a divorce. I don't know what to tell her. I told her I don´t think that would happen, but that I really can´t know that.

What can I tell her to make her feel more secure? Have you lived something similar, living in a closed relationship for a long time and being scared of opening it?

I told her about your responses. We agreed I´m going to print your responses and some of the things you suggested I read, and we are going to read them together and talk about them.

I´m so nervous. My hands keep shaking.

She says she really likes the idea of reading similar stories and trying to understand our process. We are going to my house on Thursday and we are going to talk. I´m sure a lot of things will happen between then and now, but at least on Thursday everything will be a bit clearer

 

[tercera]

Oh! I´m having second thoughts! What if he feels so angry and betrayed I end up losing both of them? What if we try to open our relationships, it doesn´t work out, and they drift apart as a couple? I don´t want to do that to them! I´m so scared!

Anyone? Please?

 

[redpepper]

I´m having second thoughts! What if he feels so angry and betrayed I end up losing both of them? What if we try to open our relationships, it doesn´t work out, and they drift apart as a couple? I don´t want to do that to them. I´m so scared!

Or they could be overjoyed and both embrace you. You just won't know until you do it. If nothing else, you will likely feel much better about being open, and the result sounds very promising to me.

 

[tercera]

Or they could be overjoyed and both embrace you. You just won't know until you do it. If nothing else, you will likely feel much better about being open, and the result sounds very promising to me.

I hope you're right! I hope we get to talk all these fears together.

Tomorrow is their anniversary. I feel so strange. I feel jealous and I don´t know why I feel that, if I really want them to have a nice relationship.

We agreed we won´t call or text or have any form of contact tomorrow. I feel angry and jealous, but I don´t know why.

I also feel so insecure! What if they decide they don´t need me?

When Bea discovered what Bill had been doing with me, she confronted him. Since then, they haven´t had sex together. She has had sex with me, and he has kissed me (nothing more). I´m so scared they will have sex tomorrow, realize their "mistake" and stop loving me!

I have talked over these fears with her. I have told her how I feel . She assures me that won´t happen, that she won´t stop loving me and isn´t with me as a substitute for being with him. But I still feel very insecure. Why? Why do I feel this? How can I believe what she tells me?

I want tomorrow to not exist. It´s so painful. I wish I could just sleep all day and wake up on Thursday.

 

[Ariakas]

Only you can answer why you are insecure. The easy answer is you should trust what they say. But that isn't always in the cards. Unfortunately, insecurity is a powerful thing which can spin in on itself.

There are lots of exercises in confronting your insecurity. The gist of almost all of them is to ask yourself questions.

What is your insecurity, exactly? Scared of losing, scared of being dumped, etc.
What is the absolute worst-case scenario of what can happen?
What do the objects of your insecurity (the people you are involved with) say?
In the case of relationships, what do you bring to the table that makes this relationship what it is?
What are the positives of being yourself?

Ideally, this allows you to drag the insecurity out, look at it, beat it up and then live with it, understanding insecurities rarely disappear, but learning how to cope.

There is a potential last part. On Thursday, when their anniversary is done, write down the truth of what happened and compare it. That les you, in the future, see the reality of your worries vs the fantasy.

 

[dragonflysky]

I can see where it would be hard to believe what she tells you, since she and her husband aren't honest with one another. I think this would also add to a sense of insecurity on your part. I'm having a difficult time seeing where either one of them is really taking what you want and need into consideration. They seem pretty self-centered in many ways, in spite of their desires to be in a loving relationship with you.

 

[tercera]

What is your insecurity? Scared of losing, being dumped?
What is the absolute worst-case scenario of what can happen?
What do the objects of your insecurity (the people you are involved with) say?
In the case of relationships, what do you bring to the table that makes this relationship what it is?
What are the positives of being yourself?

Ideally, this allows you to drag the insecurity out, look at it, beat it up and then live with it, understanding that insecurities rarely disappear, but learning how to cope.

There is a potential last part. On Thursday, when their anniversary is done, write down the truth of what happened and compare it. This lets you, in the future, see the reality of your worries vs the fantasy.

Thank you so much for your response. They helped me a lot in trying to confront my insecurities. I now realize:

1) My biggest fear is being alone, again. I was alone for a very long time. Now I know what it is to have someone to talk to, to hug me, to phone me. I am sooooo scared of losing that. I don´t want to be alone again.
2)Worst case scenario is being alone AND depressing myself. I´m so scared of having a depressive crisis. I´m so scared I´m expecting too much from them and not being able to deal with reality.
3) At the moment, I can´t really picture my life without her. I just feel so empty when I imagine that.
The most shocking thing I discovered is that I have no answers for your last 2 questions. I don´t know what I bring to the relationship, and I don´t know what the positives in me might be. I really don´t understand why two amazing persons would want to be with me. I guess that´s where my insecurity comes from. I can´t imagine them WANTING to be with me.

Today´s a BAD BAD day. But I will do this exercise you suggest. I will write what I feel now, and what I feel on Thursday. Thank you so much for helping me find some answers.

 

[tercera]

I can see where it would be hard to believe what she tells you since she and her husband aren't honest with one another. I think this would also add to a sense of insecurity on your part. I'm having a difficult time seeing where either one of them is really taking what you want and need into consideration. They seem pretty self centered in many ways in spite of their desires to be in a loving relationship with you.

That´s a huge part of it. It´s not so much that I think she´s lying to me, it´s that I think she´s lying to herself. I think she wants to believe all that she tells me, but I´m not sure she´ll be able to live with it. I feel she isn´t really choosing anything, and i´m just so scared she will suddenly decide to make as if nothing ever happened.

And with him, I just feel so strange. Last night he phoned me. He said he loved me, he wanted to be with me forever, he said if he was 10 years younger, he would want to live with me. But how can he be sincere and keep hiding everything? If he´s so good a liar to his wife, how can I know he´s being sincere and not saying that just to make me feel nice?

I asked him what he was doing today, and he said "nothing special, I´m just going to work at home". I know that´s not true because she told me it´s their anniversary, and they had planned a special day together. So, how can I believe him? Why didn´t he tell me the truth? Is it just because he wanted to protect my feelings? I just wish he would tell me the truth, about everything.

And as to not being taken consideration of, that´s something really difficult to digest. It´s something I sometimes feel, but it´s not something I want to think. I feel very guilty about feeling that.

 

[NeonKaos]

I'm not sure why this is, but it's been my experience that some people do not consider it "lying" when they tell someone else something because they think it's what the other person wants to hear, as opposed to telling someone the truth even when it may not be the answer they would like to hear. It's their way of following the path of least resistance. Your couple sounds like this kind of modus has been working for them, but it doesn't seem to be working for you. You're gonna have to get them both together in the same room and say "Look, we need to talk about some things."

Remember - you can love someone, and be "in love" with them, and still not make good partners for each other.

 

[tercera]

I'm not sure why this is, but it's been my experience that some people do not consider it "lying" when they tell someone else something because they think it's what the other person wants to hear, as opposed to telling someone the truth even when it may not be the answer they would like to hear. It's their way of following the path of least resistance. Your couple sounds like this kind of modus has been working for them, but it doesn't seem to be working for you. You're gonna have to get them both together in the same room and say "Look, we need to talk about some things."

Remember - you can love someone, and be "in love" with them, and still not make good partners for each other.

That´s a very precise descrption of what they do. I had never thought they might actually think that isn´t lying. That makes it a bit easier to understand.
I definitely need to talk a lot of thing to both of them. Together? I´m not sure. I´m trying to have the courage to do that.

I loved your point about being able to be in love with someone and still not make good partners. It gives me a lot to think about. Is this what I want in a partner? How can I decide if the nice things they give me are enough to "make up" for the not-so-nice things? How could I sacrifice all the good things? Is it worth losing everything because there are things I don´t like?

Today´s a day full of anger and sadness. I feel so guilty for having those feelings.

 

[NeonKaos]

i hope you can find what you need and deserve in a partner or partners. It's hard enough when you're getting to know one new person at a time, but it must be even more so when there is a pre-existing couple dynamic to navigate in addition to the two new individuals. Wouldn't know personally, as I have never dated a couple or dated as part of a couple. I don't think it's worth it unless the couple really really has their shit together, and even then, one at a time is more than enough for me. I guess I'm just old-fashioned, LOL.

 

[Ariakas]

Thank you so much for your response. They helped me a lot in trying to confront my insecurities. I now realize:
1) My biggest fear is being alone, again. I was alone for a very long time. Now I know what it is to have someone to talk to, to hug me, to phone me. I am sooooo scared of losing that. I don´t want to be alone again.
2)Worst case scenario is being alone AND depressing myself. I´m so scared of having a depressive crisis. I´m so scared i´m expecting too much from them and not being able to deal with reality.

Ok those are fair, especially in light of what you found out below about this. So I will continue below.

3) At the moment, I can´t really picture my life without her. I just feel so empty when I imagine that

A couple of potential points here. One, you can live without her, and two, being empty can be expected. These are human results. Allows yourself to love, but not be dependent. Imagine the pressure you are putting on the person you love.

The most shocking thing I discovered is that I have no answers for your last 2 questions. I don´t know what I bring to the relationship, and I don´t know what the positives in me might be. I really don´t understand why two amazing persons would want to be with me. I guess that´s where my insecurity comes from. I can´t imagine them WANTING to be with me.

Bingo. Exactly what that exercise is supposed to help with. So now you know the root of why you feel insecure. You need to figure out how you fit, why you fit, and why she is in a relationship with you. That will go a long way to giving you confidence in the relationship.

Confidence will keep building on itself. Accept the fact that these things happen and you have to learn to deal with them. Don't beat yourself up for feeling this way.

Now I know I sound all calm and collected about this. But it happens to me, too. I can go months feeling great and then have a downturn of insecurity.

Best of luck. There are more detailed and less detailed exercises in helping you recognize why and where you might feel insecure. Google insecurity and you will find lots of different methods. This one just happens to work for me.