Advice? My perceptions of "my" couple were off... and I'm hurt.

F

Faerylights

New member
So I'm a new member (female, bi and about a 4 on the Kinsey scale), and had shared on the Introductions thread that I've been involved, first as a close friend and then as an occasional lover/friend, with a het male/bi female couple whom I adore. During the times we slept together, I was repeatedly told that they loved me, had talked about how great it would be if I moved in (they regularly have close friends as housemates for extended periods of time), mentioned having me down to visit her mother (who's known me for 16 or so years) for Christmas, and being open with her about having me as their polyamorous partner. They also said I was the only person either of them would consider for this sort of thing and that I'm incredibly special to them.

I assumed that all this meant they were looking for some sort of poly-fi triad. None of us have previous poly experience, but my one red flag at the time was the husband ruling that neither of them would have sex with me unless they both were involved.

I asked to put the sexual relationship on pause because of that, and because I'm already out as queer and know how much harder things will be if I'm actively poly, too -- I've already had a terrible experience mentioning the couple to my mother, who is queer-tolerant but views anything poly as adultery (wish I'd known that sooner). They told me this was perfectly all right because they wanted me in their lives no matter what and were happy to give me time. I tried seeing a nice girl I'd dated a bit previously, realized I don't and probably can't love her, and being without my couple, physically, made me sad, even though we all hang out multiple times a week.

I also have sexual-trauma-related PTSD, and they both know they're some of the only people I feel comfortable with sexually, because of our long-term friendship and the trust and affection that have been built there.

I've thought, privately blogged, and tried to read a fair amount on what is emotionally healthy, safe, sane, and reasonable in terms of triad relationships.

Yesterday, I sat down with them (first with my closest friend, the wife, whom I've known much longer) and asked about dating them. She was excited, but I emphasized, and she agreed, we'd need to do lots of conversing and thinking about the logistics of it and what we all wanted. Her husband took a break from what he was doing and I explained what I'd just brought up. He said he would need time to think and had just started a Call of Duty raid with his best long-distance friend.

After the raid, she had to go to bed (earlier work start time) and he and I sat and talked. I reiterated what I'd discussed with his wife -- they've been stating they love me and want me around; we're all close friends; they're there for me during rough patches and fun times (as I am for them); and I wanted to know if they would date me. I was very specific about not being confined to an "only when the other is present" rule -- I care about them both deeply and want the freedom to touch or kiss either of them, and be embraced in return, regardless of another witness; I want a closed relationship where I'm not second class and we would be working toward that.

That was when he told me not to take this the wrong way, but they'd considered everything they did with me "experimenting." Not, he hastened to add, that they'd have wanted to with anyone but me. He said he'd consider a relationship, that he did really care about me, but he was prone to jealousy, and his greatest concern in including a third was feeling his relationship with his wife was threatened, and he didn't know how long it might take for him to not always put their 14-year relationship ahead of their relationship with me, when it came to decision making, crises, etc. I explained how much I valued their marriage, and that I only wanted to share it, not create fissures. I said them saying "We love you" and our discussions about me moving in had led me to me to think they wanted something more than a live-in "experiment."

I cried. He held my hand, hugged me, promised to give it time and thought, and was content to hang out and talk until I felt I needed to go. He kissed me goodnight, twice, which he's never done without her present, and I went home to sleep, and have nightmares, and wake up sad, and think, and wait.

I'm not sorry I put my heart out there, even though I was mistaken about how much serious thought they had given me. It's been almost two years since I was really serious about anyone and felt capable of opening up that much, so in that respect I see the bravery to state what I wanted as healthy.

But I'm miserable that the people I thought wanted to build something with me had been throwing their language out casually, and apparently been considering me as a potential live-in pet. I'm pretty serious, and he's pretty serious, and she can be flirty, but she's a deep, caring, and loyal friend. I never considered my long-time friends would misunderstand me enough to be surprised that I asked them out.

I feel like I've already lost something, regardless of what they talk about between themselves or with me. Does anyone here have any insight or experience they can share? I'm not afraid to hear "Run. Run far away" -- that's why I'm asking for advice. It's been a hard day.
 
You know what? It sounds like they were mega excited about this initially and they really, genuinely care about you. This is why it was relatively easy for them to understand how couple privilege can actually become abusive to a unicorn (for want of a better word) and decide that they don't want to do that to anyone. Yes, they did say that they love you, and I kind of believe they do. They knew what your needs are, are aware of what you can give them, knew they couldn't meet your needs and might have to totally dismiss them at times so opted to do the ethical thing. They really don't seem like bad guys. None of you do. It's actually refreshing to see people who make responsible decisions.
 
Unfortunately when a single woman gets involved with a couple, she is basically the outsider. That is just a poly fact, and the sooner you can get that, the better, because you can adjust your expectations accordingly.

You sound like you must be pretty young. I couldn't find any mention of your age.

As a single woman who dates couples, I would suggest that you continue to date other people-- singles and/or couples. That way, the relationships with the members of this couple can evolve on their own, without pressure, and you haven't put all of your eggs in one basket.

Good luck.
 
Faerylights, I'm sorry for your disappointment. It is pretty sad that it was just an experiment for them, but it is great that they realised that is what it was before they got involved with you, welcomed you into their home, and then treated you like the family pet. You have made a breakthrough. That's great. You can treat it like a growth experience on your journey towards healing.

(((hugs)))
 
idealist said:
Unfortunately, when a single woman gets involved with a couple, she is basically the outsider. That is just a poly fact, and the sooner you can get that, the better, because you can adjust your expectations accordingly.

As a single woman that dates couples, I would suggest that you continue to date other people. That way, the relationships with the members of this couple can evolve on their own, without pressure, and you haven't put all of your eggs in one basket.
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I agree with you, for the most part. Most couples do end up treating a "third" (ugh!) very badly. But there are couples who are different, who see themselves as the "couple" simply because it started out with two of them, but see any new partners as potentially equal partners. Obviously the relationships take time to build.

I would caution any unicorns to be guarded, but not jaded. Don't trust any couple at first. Make them work to have you become part of the relationship. If they turn out to be like most couples, then hopefully you're able to move on. But if they aren't, oh my God, treasure that relationship and do whatever it takes, all three of you, to be sure everyone is safe and happy.

It's not a poly "fact" that a third person has to be the outside party in the relationship. It's only what we've allowed ourselves to expect as a standard.
 
london said:
They really don't seem like bad guys. None of you do. It's actually refreshing to see people who make responsible decisions.
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Thanks for the support, London. It's good to hear from someone who can point out the good side of this, that we all communicated and were honest. It definitely could have been worse. Doesn't mean I feel great right now, but I really appreciate your words.
 
Hi!

You say this was only yesterday? Perhaps they actually do need some time to think on it, and feel on it. You were awesomely brave to put your heart out there. Perhaps they hadn't allowed themselves to consider the true possibility of a triad. Perhaps becoming aware of couple privilege will allow them to consider that maybe they do want something else.

Poly rarely happens overnight. It seems to me it often takes many, many discussions, of which you've only had the first. I invite you to be as open as you wish your partners to be. Before you get lost in your sadness, wait until they can talk, and think, and feel, and respond to you.

Wishing you all the good luck.
 
PolyinPractice said:
I would caution any unicorns to be guarded, but not jaded. Don't trust any couple at first. Make them work to have you become part of the relationship. If they turn out to be like most couples, then hopefully you're able to move on. But if they aren't, treasure that relationship and do whatever it takes, all three of you, to be sure everyone is safe and happy. It's not a poly "fact" that a third person has to be the outside party in the relationship. It's only what we've allowed ourselves to expect as a standard.
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Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I don't want to be a unicorn, but I know the term isn't always pejorative.

What I do want, if I have anything poly, is healthy relationships with two other people where all three of us can learn to freely exchange love.

I like triangles in geometry -- every point touches every other point, and the triangle's a closed circuit.

I appreciate you telling me that's not an ultimate impossibility. With all the sexual and gender diversity in the world, it certainly doesn't seem like it should be. I also needed to hear that I'm worth a couple working to make me feel like I belong. I have a history of undervaluing myself in relationship to my partners.
 
Also, thanks Natja for the comfort, idealist for the suggestions (and I'm 29, so -- not young, but very new to poly anything), and NR for the thoughtful and considered response. I've definitely been sad, and I'm so glad to find so many people willing to reach out and offer help. You all are great.
 
I am sorry you are so sad.

I do think they both love you. I think when the husband used the term "experiment," he meant in regard to configuration; and it was not about you as a person. The fact that he respects you enough to share his own insecurities with jealousy shows an incredible amount of honesty and trust. When a lot of people are confronted with their own fears, they often react badly, not with honesty and compassion.

I can certainly understand your sadness and disappointment, but I don't think they mislead you, and I do get the impression that you are important to them. The fact that he has jealousy issues does not meant he doesn't love or care for you.
 
Honestly, I tend to believe they really care for you. They did you a favour out of the love they had for you. They respected you enough to be honest, and not treat you like a second-class citizen, because they felt you were worth more than that. So many couples wreak havoc on the noob who is trying to fit in to something that has been established.

The husband admitted to having jealousy issues, and being unsure of when or if there would ever be a point where they would not put their relationship first. That is a starting point. I cannot tell you how many couples would continue to do it-- issues and all-- and leave the newest member of their triad on the second tier and treat them like shit, as if that is all they understand. None of you sound like bad people.

"Not right now" does not equate to never. Who is to say that he is not going to work on his jealousy issues, or that they will not reach a point of security in their marriage where they stop believing that others will pose a threat? Maybe they plan on strengthening what they have in preparation for you (or other relationships). Keep talking and discussing in great detail. Open your heart and your ears. At the root of my marriage, we have one hell of a strong friendship. Spend this time making the friendships stronger instead of being sad and disappointed.

Keep the friendships and try to carry on like normal. You can alleviate the awkwardness by addressing the bright pink elephant in the room. Feeling something? Say it. Want to say you love them/miss them? Say it. Want to discuss something? Do it. No one says you have to stop loving one another. You are just not suited to be in a triad right now because one of the dyads (their marriage) could stand to be stronger.

He has acknowledged he has issues, and I do not think he was referring to you as an experiment. Slight miscommunication, maybe? Would it sound better if he'd said, "We were trying this out without the formalities, and in the process, we identified some weak spots that need to be worked on before we can take it a step further?"

Turn this into something positive. A lesson can be learned in every situation. I must say that you have no reason to be mad or sad. They are two people who care about you, and have not ruled out a relationship in due time. They need time, which is oh so important.

Sending hugs your way,
Ry
 
Faerylights said:
Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I don't want to be a unicorn, but I know the term isn't always pejorative. What I do want, if I have anything poly, is healthy relationships with two other people where all three of us can learn to freely exchange love.
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That's great! You know what you want. I guess what I'm saying is that in the process of finding "the couple" for you, you could date a variety of couples, rather than "settling down" with one right away. This process of dating a variety of couples might also help you value yourself more.
 
You all are wonderful

So . . ."my" erstwhile couple had me over tonight and it turns out they've been in as much distress as I have, because they do take me quite seriously. Both of them recounted lost sleep, reading online, thinking, and very much wanting me to be with them. I let them talk this time, and it turns out we all want a closed triadic relationship, and we're all looking at being together as a long-term possibility. In fact, it turns out both of them were uncomfortable with the concept of any configuration that wouldn't build toward equality and allow any of us alone time with anyone else (part of the jealously component, apparently, was not wanting to share me outside the relationship while making sure I didn't feel second-class within it).

We're going to start dating and put super-physical elements between the three of us on the back-burner so that we can be sure this will work . . .but they shocked the hell out of me with their affection and concern, which extended to discussions of eventually sharing their finances, because right now they're both making more than me and dislike the idea of me potentially moving in but not having legal access to some of the things they share, like healthcare, and want to make things even.

I was very scared for the last few days, but they were too . . .and while they had each other, I had no one to discuss this with in my personal life, except this forum.

I know this will be slow going and have its own sets of problems, but I'm so excited and relieved right now. Thanks for advice, encouragement, wisdom, etc. I'll keep people posted on how this turns out; so far it's better than I dared to hope.
 
It's good to hear of an experience that wasn't a dramatized horror story

because it's not always hurt feelings from being genuinely wronged that such stories end up here at polyamory dot com.

So it is a refreshing change to hear your story, and I hope you do come back with updates.

You sound like you would have been wise enough to recognize, that if it does not work out, that you wouldn't blame the "triad" as the reason as opposed to the behavior everyone exhibited in the relationship. When "poly" people blame triad configuration it is just as strange and uneducated guesswork as monogamous people blaming polyamory for the reason a specific relationship didn't work out as planned, or I guess I should say as you hoped for, or maybe sticking with the "poly elite pc" term which does not accept any "expectations" it may be more polytically correct to say when a relationship does not occur nor continue at the level which all previously un-entered relationships have the potential to be wherein you are happy and satisfied.

Because it's crazy how some polyamoric communities seem to remove the warmth of love and add machine like coldness in it's place if you don't conform to the standards of a polyrobot.

You sound like you would know better than too accept such advice, but sometimes forum members do not know any better. Getting caught up in new relationship energy can and does happen, so it is important to be understanding of the people in your relationships and those you are indirectly connected to through your relationship

people often do stupid things -- like use foolish words -- that communicate the wrong message, and when that happens, so long as they really are caring enough to try again and re-communicate what they are really thinking, then nothing is lost. But it does require that you let him or them know how after alluding to genuinely caring for you and how you are different -- special to them -- to be described as an experiment can instantly make it appear as if all that talk was a bunch of bullshit and if it was, that is NOT loving behavior. It isn't even liking behavior and it's closer to cruel and unusual psychological punishment.

Which it sounds like it was not, my point is what would have happened if you were not able to inform them how that made you feel without them getting defensive?

How many poly relationships end on a sour note because once you feel even slightly wronged -- even if it is only after accepting some uninvolved person's advice -- if you are not careful you will begin building a great divide as opposed to a bridgeway for understanding each other?

Everyone makes mistakes, all successful relationships require a fair amount of being understanding. Being understanding does not mean letting people get away with treating you like shit, it means being able to communicate well enough so that you can truly understand what happened

if that makes sense

I really just took the long way around explaining how important effective communication is

There is a big difference between someone using foolish/not clear words that you feeling hurt and when someone reveals they have been misleading/lying to you. It's the difference between a misunderstanding and abuse

I don't believe that abuse can be done innocently, but some people refer to ignorantly irresponsible ways to love others as innocent, but I view ignorant irresponsible love as a form of abuse

irresponsible love can be just as damaging as being with a person who doesn't really care about your well being

it is good to hear that neither is the case in your triad, and good to hear from someone who sounds like they understand that the triad dynamic is not what is wrong, that it is the conscious behavior of those involved that makes or breaks any relationship
 
Faerylights said:
So . . ."my" erstwhile couple had me over tonight and it turns out they've been in as much distress as I have, because they do take me quite seriously. Both of them recounted lost sleep, reading online, thinking, and very much wanting me to be with them. I let them talk this time, and it turns out we all want a closed triadic relationship, and we're all looking at being together as a long-term possibility. In fact, it turns out both of them were uncomfortable with the concept of any configuration that wouldn't build toward equality and allow any of us alone time with anyone else (part of the jealously component, apparently, was not wanting to share me outside the relationship while making sure I didn't feel second-class within it).

We're going to start dating and put super-physical elements between the three of us on the back-burner so that we can be sure this will work . . .but they shocked the hell out of me with their affection and concern, which extended to discussions of eventually sharing their finances, because right now they're both making more than me and dislike the idea of me potentially moving in but not having legal access to some of the things they share, like healthcare, and want to make things even.

I was very scared for the last few days, but they were too . . .and while they had each other, I had no one to discuss this with in my personal life, except this forum.

I know this will be slow going and have its own sets of problems, but I'm so excited and relieved right now. Thanks for advice, encouragement, wisdom, etc. I'll keep people posted on how this turns out; so far it's better than I dared to hope.
Click to expand...

I have just one thing to say: YAY! :D
 
Thanks Bookbug and Dirtclustit for the encouragement and thoughtful advice. I've already learned a lot on this forum and from the threads I've started . . .I'm thinking of giving this time and then maybe starting a blog. But you all are awesome. :)
 
Very good! It's hard sometimes to wait for the moment when talking is possible. So many what if's pop into our heads and run wild!
It's great that the discussion came about and showed that you were really all concerned about the same things. :)
 
Hi Faery,

I'm so sorry to hear that you are sad. Let's gather the positives and the things to think about. All is not lost.

The first thing is that love doesn't necessarily have to mean living together and sharing the stereotypical 'primary' (for want of a better term) things of finances, children, house, etc. The most beautiful love can actually exist without all of that and there are so many different relationship models and types that can actually manage to be healthy for everyone. It is my belief that healthy doesn't have to mean primary, either. To me, healthy simply means that everyone is on the same page and is getting what they need in some way or another. I have had beautiful, very loving, very healthy and supportive (mutually beneficial) relationships with 'non-primary' partners.

The male half of your couple is, at least, being extremely honest - and fair in his honesty - about his limitations. I do actually think that it's a good thing that he voiced his current feelings, rather than leaving you for weeks in the dark while he thinks about it. This gives you (and him/them) some time to think through things.

I do absolutely understand that your hopes have been dashed and that you are disappointed. You have every right to feel upset and hurt. I really do completely empathise with you.

Next, you have to ask yourself what you could be happy with. Would you be happy to keep seeing them in the same capacity you have been seeing them? Would you be happy if there was a compromise that you could sleep with either, spend time with either, as separate people; without having an eventual live-in or equal triad relationship?

I do agree with the viewpoint that even if you do not want to at the moment, which is completely understandable, it would be wise to leave yourself with the option to become involved with other people. I'm not a believer in forcing relationships to be one thing or another; I do believe that they can take many forms. I also believe that if you can not get everything that you want from a relationship, there is absolutely nothing wrong with simply meeting some of your needs with that relationship. It doesn't have to mean goodbye - it can mean that you still get to enjoy them, but change your expectations.

You are exactly right that you have done the right thing. Absolutely, without a doubt! That shows incredible self-worth, strength and self-awareness. You've laid your cards on the table. Now it's time to see what they come up with; then what you can all come up with together. There could be a light at the end of this tunnel. And if for some reason there is no middle ground; that your needs and theirs completely mismatch in a painful way - it's all the better that you know this now.

Let us know what they say and know that you can turn to all of us if you need an ear.

~Sparklepop
 
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