Advice on transitioning to polyamory

[CaptainCharisma]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading this forum for quite awhile trying to sort out my thoughts, but I'm at a loss and realized I need advice specific to my situation. Here's what's going on:

I started dating Jay seven months ago. We're both in our early 20s. When we started dating, it wasn't exclusive, but neither of us seriously pursued anyone else and we eventually established a monogamous relationship. We were great friends for several years before dating and were roommates, so we continued living together very successfully. Overall, things have been really happy and solid so far.

I've been struggling with being poly for quite some time (long before dating Jay) but didn't really know what it was or that non-monogamy could be ethical. In the last month or so I've started to educate myself about polyamory and feel overwhelmed with relief that I am not alone in this. Reading your stories on this forum has really helped me discover myself and feel confident in who I am.

The issue is that Jay did not sign up for a poly relationship and doesn't feel comfortable at all. It goes against everything he knows and wants. We have talked about it extensively and it's clearly causing him distress. He wants me to be happy and have what I want, but he seems to think the best option would be for him to distance himself emotionally from me in order to be okay with it.

He has suggested that I only see women (I'm bi but primarily interested in men), that I simply go out more with friends (because "isn't that the same?") or that I break up with him and date someone who would be comfortable with polyamory (something he only says in our most despondent moments). All I want right now is the freedom to try going on a date with someone else--not sex, nothing too serious--just to know what it's like and to see if we could handle a polyamorous relationship. He's trying really hard to be okay with it but I can tell it's hurting him to sacrifice the monogamy that makes him feel secure.

I love Jay and I want to stay with him. I've never felt so compatible with another person and I see him as a potential life partner. But I'm having a hard time explaining how I could feel so strongly about him and still want to date someone else.

To make things a little more complicated, I do already have a potential secondary partner. He's really sweet and open to being my secondary, should Jay be comfortable with it. But to be honest, he doesn't strike me as a "forever" partner the way Jay does, and I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with Jay for anything. If I could be mono I would... But I'm getting more and more antsy knowing that people happily and successfully have poly relationships. I would love to be in a closed V one day (that is my ideal) but Jay thinks that if I was in a relationship with a second person, it would be unfair if he couldn't also date. And I agree, but only want to involve people who are serious, not people looking for casual sex or dates here and there.

Does anyone have advice on how to talk to Jay about this? I'm sorry if my post is a little disorganized; it's been hard sorting out my thoughts on the subject.

Thank you so much.

 

[GalaGirl]

If you guys want to talk a bit more -- these are some "hub" links:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://openingup.net/open-list/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

I'm not sure what there is to say though. You guys have talked enough from the sound of it to arrive at:

You = poly
Jay = mono

Not sounding compatible for the relationship model you want to practice together.

If he is solid on his preferences for his romances being (monoamorous and monogamous) at this point in time? I think it's best to accept it and agree to be friends. End the romance. There is no need to go have a date to "try it on" if Jay already knows he is just not willing to participate in a polyship. He did not sign up for that.

A good parting is better to me than trying to force a thing to fly that just won't.

He doesn't sound thrilled, and I'd caution you against rushing in eagerly and overlooking his emotional state. I could be wrong, but to me it sounds like denial/bargaining combo. Stages of grief. You might be experiencing same.

• Right now at one end of it he's talking about emotionally distancing himself to be able to handle it. I don't see how this encourages emotional intimacy between (you and him) if he is leaning away from the relationship or throwing up walls.
  
• At the other end, he's trying to bargain it down/away -- date only women, see more friends.
  
• At the other end of it? He wants to break up.

None sound like a "joyous yes" to me where he is going "Yay! Polyshipping! Let's do it together!"

One thing I would caution is to guard against either of you going against their grain. It is a time for total, radical honesty with each other and one's self. One could want to THRIVE in their relationships, not merely survive them. This is not something you compromise on like he has his kind of toothpaste and you have yours because you can't agree on a brand. This is a fundamental.

So if you going back to mono grinds against the grain? You two could end it and be friends.

If him going to some kind of open model grinds against his grain? You two could end it and be friends.

If he is not looking out for his best interests and he keeps himself in a situation he is not thriving in? I always think a loving partner has responsibilities toward their partner. If you are observing a partner struggling and clinging on tight because they just do not want to let go? Even when it is healthier for them to do so? It is not kind or loving to let him keep on hurting himself that way just because you want to be with him. You may have to end it so he can be free of hurt, arrive at acceptance, heal, and find relief rather than keep on twisting up and living unhealthy. I think sometimes the most loving thing to do in some cases it to let the romance model end and change to friendship model.

I'm not sure where you guys are at with this, but those are my thoughts in case it helps you any.

Jay thinks that if I was in a relationship with a second person, it would be unfair if he couldn't also date. And I agree, but only want to involve people who are serious, not people looking for casual sex or dates here and there. Does anyone have advice on how to talk to Jay about this? I'm sorry if my post is a little disorganized; it's been hard sorting out my thoughts on the subject.

It is not up to Jay to decide what is good or fair for the other person you would be dating. The other guy could be totally fine with a "V." The other guy determines his "willing & able."

I think it is best for Jay to focus on JAY right now and give clear communication about where Jay stands.

• Is he willing to participate in a V? Not sounding like it.
• Is he able to participate in a V? Not sounding like it.

Since it is not a "joyous yes?" Could call it a "working no" and go from there. It makes dicernment a whole lot easier. Hard to feel, but makes it a more clear cut path for what to do next. Hang in there!

GL!
Galagirl

 

[CaptainCharisma]

GalaGirl,

Thank you so much for the response.

Right now I'm inclined to believe you that Jay and I are better off with a friendship rather than a romance. The rub is that neither of us wants that to be the case, and since this is all unfolding rather unexpectedly, it's hard to believe that this is suddenly the end of something that otherwise was going really well.

The thing that keeps me from moving ahead on this one is that Jay seems like he might eventually come around to polyamory. This is the first he's heard of it as well and he was raised very traditionally. He's been honest in saying his first instinct is to shy away from it and that he's not okay with it. But he also has reassured me that he accepts and loves this part of me, and he has told me he isn't rejecting the idea permanently. Is this bargaining or is this something that could really happen? Is it possible to ease him into it slowly?

Another question... Jay seems firm that he's mono, but he seems to feel that if I was in multiple relationships, he ought to be in multiple relationships too. His idea of multiple relationships are more casual/sexual encounters, while I'm more interested in committed emotional relationships (closed). (I think this is called polyfidelity?) Is it hypocritical for me to feel peeved at the idea of him casually having sex with others? Is this something I should become okay with as part of the compromise of opening up our relationship?

Also... Given that Jay may never be able to having a polyship, what are the chances of me happily being monogamous with him? What kind of steps could I take to deal with the remainder of those emotions and that drive for intimacy, in such a way that doesn't violate the boundaries of a monogamous relationship? Is that possible? I care about him very much and trying to be monogamous is something that I would do if it meant he and I could have a successful romantic relationship.

 

[GalaGirl]

You could put a time frame around that. You might be willing to time out, talk, and sort things for a year and see where it is at then. Probably not willing to be on pause for 25 years.

Jay might be monoamorous and monogamous. He might be monoamorous and polysexual. He is not sounding polyamorous at this time, but maybe I am wrong. That kind of stuff is "what iffing" to me and not helpful. Only Jay can speak for Jay and where he stands. Could not guess. Could simply ask him.

Everyone has their own preferences. You feel however you feel about sharing casual sex. If he feels a different way, he feels a different way. It is not hypocritical to have preferences for what open models appeal to you and which do not. Being poly does not mean you have to be up for everything or every model.

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html

At this time? You would like a closed polyfi V in time. Jay, if he even opens at all, does not want that. He would want an open V so he can enjoy casual encounters. You do not want this. That is another fundamental where you guys are not sounding compatible.

A lot of your questions are introspective... Only you can answer those. What you are willing and not willing to do, what you are able and not able to do. Could do some soul searching. But do not compromise if agreeing to do something rubs against your grain. That is where being super honest with yourself comes in.

If you want to try monoship, I think Jay would have to Open enough to hear about your poly feelings and thoughts. I once wrote about that in my blog thread. Starts on post 6.

I am sorry you are struggling.

Galagirl

 

[friskyone4u]

Gala Girl has spelled it all out for you. You mention all the people on this forum happily practicing poly. Some are. But if you read a lot here you will see a lot of pain and misery being caused when one person is all in and one person is not. And while you say you are interested in dating not really sex now , Jay probably knows it is going to wind up with sex so there is another boundary for him . Each need you find with others will be another thing he did not sign up for.
Take GAla Girls advice and have a brutally honest conversation and tell him to either be all in or all out if that is what you need. Don't tell him to try it with just dsting socially and then come home shortly after and tell him now you need to spend the night at your date s house. He needs to know exactly what he is signing up for, not the bare minimum to convince him to try it

 

[MissBehaviour]

In some ways I'm probably not the best person to be offering advice as I think a lot of people here know I have made my fair share of mistakes.

I just wanted to offer my perspective on things though as I think I can really relate to what you're going through. I have been with M for nearly 4 years and we started off Mono. We both fell into the kink world which is how I found out about Polyamory and there was that wonderful moment of discovering that the person in me who really struggles with monogamy isn't a total she bitch like I'd thought.

In due course myself and M opened up our relationship. Truth be told, I'm not proud of the person I became at all but long story short over those couple of months we came to the conclusion that although I was happy living non monogamously, M was not. I continued in a monogamous relationship but was frequently very unhappy as I would find myself falling for people emotionally and essentially emotionally cheating on M.

When our relationship became long distance, we opened up again and I took on a second partner who I am no longer with for our own reasons. There was one moment a year ago where M asked if he could become play partners with a mutual friend. My first instinct was yes go have fun, but shortly after I realised I was really uncomfortable. M was mono surely?! Did this mean he wasn't interested in me anymore? Our relationship is pretty asexual and I panicked thinking he wasn't into me anymore.

You could look at this and argue that our needs were very very different and to be honest yes, we do have very different needs but there is a reason we have lasted so long and that's because we love each other in a way that allows us to have our known needs and relationship lifetsyles met. I was able to talk to M about my concerns and how I was feeling and by having the conversation he put my fears at ease and I began to understand more about why he wanted play partners when he was asexual. Although it's pretty far from how I view the world, I know it's just something about him in the way that Polyamory is something about me. It's not a lifestyle I want for myself, but if he wants it, he's welcome to it! Equally, I don't think he really understands what it is to desire multiple meaningful connections but he understands it's something I need so he allows me to have that lifestyle.

When I look at relationships that have failed, it has come down to a lack of understanding of ones own needs and insecurities, a lack of properly communicating them and a lack of mutual support and reassurances.

Of course it may well be that you and Jay really aren't meant to be, I'm just a stranger on the internet, how could I know? But I hope this helps illustrate that it can work in a MonoPoly relationship.

Best of luck!

 

[CaptainCharisma]

There was that wonderful moment of discovering that the person in me who really struggles with monogamy isn't a total she bitch like I'd thought.

That's pretty much where I'm at; I was in a semi-state of despair because I really felt like I couldn't operate within the social norm of monogamy and would long to be involved with someone emotionally. It made me feel like a horrible person and a bad partner... Finding out about polyamory has restored a lot of my confidence.

In due course myself and M opened up our relationship. Truth be told, I'm not proud of the person I became at all but long story short over those couple of months we came to the conclusion that although I was happy living non monogamously, M was not. I continued in a monogamous relationship but was frequently very unhappy as I would find myself falling for people emotionally and essentially emotionally cheating on M.

This is what I'm afraid of. I don't want to betray Jay because I care about him. But I do feel like if he insists on monogamy, I will have a hard time staying emotionally faithful to him. I don't know what to do.

 

[WhatHappened]

Jay doesn't want what you want. He is unhappy. Your choices are to look at yourself--why you feel unable to be happy without dating, and presumably eventually having sex with, others--or end the relationship with Jay rather than hoping he'll continue in something that is clearly making him unhappy and uncomfortable, something he didn't sign up for, and find someone who will be happy to have you date and sleep with other men.

I personally believe it's not all that uncommon to get crushes and infatuations on others, even fall in love with others, when we're already in a relationship with someone we love. But we are capable of choosing to be monogamous and faithful, and we are capable of choosing happiness, rather than believing can be happy only if we get everything we want.

 

[GalaGirl]

I might be wrong... but I think because it is hard to FEEL right now, you could be overcomplicating the ACTIONS required here in your behavior. I see you incline to think it is best to be friends. I see you are not ready to do the breaking up.

I am not sure where you guys stand on a (monoamorous-polyamorous relationship), but if he is not up for ANY polyshipping at all? You have your answer on that model already. Not up for it.

I see you are in between right now -- You are digesting. Dealing with stages of grief.

FWIW, could think about it in terms of behavior done/ not done.

I don't want to betray Jay because I care about him.

Then do not make new promises you cannot keep. That behavior does not betray him.

Make him aware of old promises that have run their course, and you no longer able to keep moving forward. It is polite to give him a heads up. That is not betraying either. Disappointing maybe, but not betraying.

But I do feel like if he insists on monogamy, I will have a hard time staying emotionally faithful to him.

If you have a definition of "faithful" as "not even thinking or feeling things for other people" -- I think that definition is not realistic.
Merely thinking things does not foment them into being. There is a space between thinking about something, and doing something about something.

If he insists that he prefers his romantic partnerships to be monogamous? He insists his relationships be where he doesn't have to hear about his partner's inner life?

• You could respectfully decline to participate as his romantic partner. Not accept what he offers you.

He has the right to want whatever relationship shape for himself. It doesn't have to be with you.

He does not have the right to insist you do things against your own willingness. If you agree and you say you are willing when you KNOW it goes against your own willingness?

• You are not being honest with yourself or with him if you lie about what you are willing to do.
• You are not doing a great job looking out for you.

I do not recommend that path.

I don't know what to do.

Well.... could do these and wait and think some more while you are working through the stages of grief.

I note where I think you are from the sound of your posts. I could be wrong in my evaluation. (green is done, orange is in progress, red is not there yet.)

• You could state your current position with clear communication. (done)
• You could listen to his. (done)
• You could let each of you deal with the results emotionally if wants to not line up. (in progress, both dealing in stages of grief now. )
• You could not fear having to feel some hard stuff -- you are already doing it! (in progress?)
• You could be decisive -- if a thing just won't fly, stop. Be ok stopping. <--- IMHO, you are struggling here. Maybe bargaining stage of grief. You see where that might be better than current limbo suffering, but don't want to move toward that yet. Not at full acceptance, and not ready to take action yet.
• Could focus on getting yourself to the healing place. That is a good place to linger. Limbo Land is NOT a good place in which to linger.
  (Not putting energies into "get me out of limbo" yet. Still putting energies in "bargaining" stage stuff. )

When you sit back to evaluate your progress through stages of grief, how would you put it yourself? Are you experiencing depression about it? Anger? Something else? How have you handled digesting grief and coming to full acceptance before? What helped? Could any of that be done now in your self care?

I am very sorry this time is hard for you.

Still has to be dealt with though. Hang in there as you continue in your process.

Galagirl

 

[MissBehaviour]

But I do feel like if he insists on monogamy, I will have a hard time staying emotionally faithful to him. I don't know what to do.

I do think GalaGirl has really hit the nail on the head but I did just want to add that going from my experience, just because he chooses a monogamous lifestyle doesn't mean you have to have a monogamous lifestyle to have a successful and harmonious relationship with him.

I think it would be really worth trying to understand what scares him about the idea of you seeing other people which might not be something he himself can answer properly yet.

 

[MissBehaviour]

Yup. He might just not be willing. Not scared, just not interested in that model.

Or he is scared, and just not willing to deal with that model.

Either way? He's just not up for it. And rather than going round in circles over it, it seems kinder to me to let it all go. Release both form suffering and enable both to move on toward healing.

Galagirl

Could very well be that he's not willing to deal with it but a lot of phrases in the original post suggests that insecurity might be playing a part in it, particularly:
"I can tell it's hurting him to sacrifice the monogamy that makes him feel secure."

Of course there is always the option of just walking away, there's always that option. I just wanted to offer another perspective as I know from experience how much people can grow and work together in the right relationship and I'm assuming the OP is looking for suggestions of how it could work whilst knowing that it might just not.

 

[GalaGirl]

Sorry, I was still editing and had to delete and start over. Phone nuts.

Yup. He might just not be willing. Not scared, just not interested in that model.

Or he is scared, and just not willing to deal with that model.

Either way? He's just not up for it. And rather than going round in circles over it, it seems kinder to me to let it all go. Release both form suffering and enable both to move on toward healing.

Galagirl

I'm assuming the OP is looking for suggestions of how it could work whilst knowing that it might just not.

I know. But it takes both people's willing AND able. She cannot work on it without his "willing and able" to work it out too. He is here:

The issue is that Jay did not sign up for a poly relationship and doesn't feel comfortable at all. It goes against everything he knows and wants

One could ask one time "are you sure?" and then let it go. I think it is respectful to just honor that he just doesn't want that. If he doesn't want to talk it out any more, or explain or it comes from insecurity and he doesn't want to deal in that either? That's still his business what he is up for or not at this time.

Nobody likes saying "No" and not having it respected. Going on and on and on about it can lead to resentment, anger, etc. There's a line between "seeking understanding" and "being pushy." YKWIM?

Wanting to change core beliefs is not impossible, but it's a lot of work and the person really wants to change them. Jay doesn't sound like that to me.

Rather than beat heads on walls, it seems kinder to release them both from this suffering at this time. Small or big.
It isn't like they cannot talk later if they need a break from this talking now. It is not like they cannot date again later on if they need a break from dating now.

But you have a point, MissBehavior.

CaptainCharisma , you seem have been processing a lot since the start of the thread. What IS your desired outcome at this point in time?

Galagirl

 

[MissBehaviour]

Sorry, I was still editing. Phone nuts.


I know. But it takes both willing AND able. She cannot work on it without his "willing and able" to work it out too.

R.E Phone..bleurgh technology, haha.


Quite agree with you, I think we've taken different things from reading the posts. I took it that he was willing, especially as they've talked about different types of poly, but if he isn't then yeah, nothing to really be done about that, love yourself first!

Assuming they are willing, just because their different views are causing difficulties now, doesn't mean it can't be worked on to find a compromise where they both understand each other a little better and can both be happy and feel fulfilled in their relationship (s). That's the bit I'm trying to get at so not disagreeing with you really.

But yeah it is tough and it may just be a case that one or both aren't willing in which case it can't be forced.

Make sense?

 

[GalaGirl]

I think we basically agree about both of them having to be on the same page for it to work.

We just had different takes on this part --

I took it that he was willing, especially as they've talked about different types of poly,

I didn't take that as "willing to polyship." I took it as "willing to talk about polyshipping things."

I took that as him maybe bargaining for a way to make it fly. Like if she agrees to be willing to remain CLOSED and monogamous, he might agree to be willing to OPEN up to listen to her poly thoughts and feelings more often. Become more willing to TALK ABOUT polyshipping things. That doesn't mean he's willing to OPEN the relationship and PARTICIPATE in a polyship though. Talking is one thing, doing another.

But I don't see how that works here as middle ground though -- if what she wants is to poly date. That's not talking. That's doing.

Galagirl

 

[MissBehaviour]

Nobody likes saying "No" and not having it respected. Going on and on and on about it can lead to resentment, anger, etc. There's a line between "seeking understanding" and "being pushy." YKWIM?

I couldn't agree with this more!! Last year I really learnt the importance of applying SSC* (used in kink) to communication.

*Safe Sane and Consensual

I think if/when having these conversations where two people maybe coming from very different view points it can be even more important to apply this.

Safety referring to feeling secure. Is it a safe place physically? A shared place where both people are on equal footing?
Equally, are both people in a safe place on an emotional level? I've had people try to force serious conversations at a time where i've not been mentally on the level or generally emotionally flooded for a variety of reasons and the results have been disastrous.

Sane can refer to thinking about what might be impacting the rationality of the communicators. Is it late at night? Has there been alcohol consumed? How are peoples health? I know if I'm under the weather I tend to be a lot more emotional and needy (fairly understandably)

Consensual refers to whether both people are ready and happy to have this conversation. Sometimes we need to have conversations we'd rather not have but when looking at how to progress as a team, consenting to the conversation is so, so important. Especially in a scenario like this where I think forcing that conversation can very much reinforce any insecurities the 'mono' person might have.

 

[Garriguette]

I couldn't agree with this more!! Last year I really learnt the importance of applying SSC* (used in kink) to communication.

*Safe Sane and Consensual

Consensual refers to whether both people are ready and happy to have this conversation. Sometimes we need to have conversations we'd rather not have but when looking at how to progress as a team, consenting to the conversation is so, so important. Especially in a scenario like this where I think forcing that conversation can very much reinforce any insecurities the 'mono' person might have.

I threw an imaginary handful of confetti into the air when I read this paragraph. Thank you for saying that.

Xicot and I had a problem for a while where we were overloading on conversations about things that we found difficult. (SO many variations on, "How do we both meet our needs when they are in conflict with each other?") And we were underloading on snuggles, shared fun experiences, and talking about things that we weren't in conflict about.

All that processing time was designed to help me feel more secure. And it came at the expense of things that actually help me feel secure, and at the expense of things that make a relationship feel fun and worthwhile to him.

We haven't "solved" the conflict yet. But both of us find it easier to cope with non-resolution when we are doing things that help us tank up on goodwill toward each other.

 

[MissBehaviour]

All that processing time was designed to help me feel more secure. And it came at the expense of things that actually help me feel secure, and at the expense of things that make a relationship feel fun and worthwhile to him.

I can relate to that, I was in a situation at one point where processing had become the focus for an ex to the extent where I was saying "I don't have the emotional capacity for this conversation today" or "can't we just enjoy ourselves today?" and I was being told that I wasn't trying hard enough for our relationship etc.

Reality was, constantly being asked to have a conversation I wasn't ready for had made me feel insecure and made me feel that I wasn't valued as highly as potential other partners. Then being told that I wasn't good enough was kind of the final nail in that mentality.

I agree though, things like cuddles and cups of tea and "how was your day?" and positive reinforcements when someone is trying their hardest will make people feel a lot more secure and confident than exhausting endless hours of processing.

 

[icesong]

I couldn't agree with this more!! Last year I really learnt the importance of applying SSC* (used in kink) to communication.

*Safe Sane and Consensual

I think if/when having these conversations where two people maybe coming from very different view points it can be even more important to apply this.

Safety referring to feeling secure. Is it a safe place physically? A shared place where both people are on equal footing?
Equally, are both people in a safe place on an emotional level? I've had people try to force serious conversations at a time where i've not been mentally on the level or generally emotionally flooded for a variety of reasons and the results have been disastrous.

Sane can refer to thinking about what might be impacting the rationality of the communicators. Is it late at night? Has there been alcohol consumed? How are peoples health? I know if I'm under the weather I tend to be a lot more emotional and needy (fairly understandably)

Consensual refers to whether both people are ready and happy to have this conversation. Sometimes we need to have conversations we'd rather not have but when looking at how to progress as a team, consenting to the conversation is so, so important. Especially in a scenario like this where I think forcing that conversation can very much reinforce any insecurities the 'mono' person might have.

SSC as a conversational requirement is something I am terrible about sticking to - it's probably the biggest problem between me and TheKnight, in that I get emotional and nownownow about issues and we talk about them at bad times.

 

[MissBehaviour]

SSC as a conversational requirement is something I am terrible about sticking to - it's probably the biggest problem between me and TheKnight, in that I get emotional and nownownow about issues and we talk about them at bad times.

I would say it's simultaneously the hardest and most important thing I've learnt on my journey.