Advice or guidance

[Natja]

Okay. I must admit I am a little confused and feel like there is a back story I am unaware of here, which is fine. I don't really care, to be honest.

No, no, don't worry. He is bit insane.

Anyway, I applaud you for coming back and making yourselves vulnerable by being open about the conversation with the ex-girlfriend.

I'm sorry she reached her limit. It's very true that sometimes you don't know what you want until you realise that something is missing.

 

[Duckshoes]

No, no, don't worry. He is a bit insane.

Anyway, I applaud you for coming back and making yourselves vulnerable by being open about the conversation with the ex-girlfriend. I'm sorry she reached her limit. Sometimes you don't know what you want until you realise that something is missing.

And of course, we will move on. It was very helpful to write this down. I have learned a lot over the last couple of days. I don't know if we will ever enter into this type of relationship again. It was a hard end for both of us. But if we do, at least now we will enter under a different perspective.

I still feel like if she told us it could have worked. But I am not deflecting our part of the blame, either. I guess it was poor communication on everyone's part.

 

[Natja]

And we will move on. I have learned a lot over the last couple of days. I don't know if we will ever enter into this type of relationship again... but if we do, at least now will enter under a different perspective.

I still feel like if she told us it could have worked, but I am not deflecting our part of the blame. I guess it was poor communication on everyone's part.

No one does everything 100% right all the time. You live, you learn, you own your own shit, and you get better.

 

[bookbug]

When she was around us she said we were all she needed and that she was happy. She never mentioned dating others and when she did it was out of the blue and a shock... I honestly thought she enjoyed the relationship as it was and didn't know she wanted more. She said that I should have known, and perhaps she was right. I just didn't see it.

Expecting you to read her mind was unfair and unrealistic. I don't know how you could have known if her words said otherwise.

 

[Duckshoes]

Expecting you to read her mind was unfair and unrealistic. I don't know how you could have known if her words said otherwise.

And to be clear, I am not looking for blame to be distributed here. The situation is what it is and I can't change that. Communication obviously wasn't where it needed to be with all of us and that is too bad. Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe she was unreasonable in her expectations of us noticing, as we were thinking everything was fine. Really, at the end of the day, a really good relationship where 3 people loved each other is now over, and that is what makes me sad.

You guys have been more than helpful, in one way or another, for someone who just popped up and shoved this in your face. Thank you.

 

[Magdlyn]

Really, the best advice for you and your wife, if polyamory is really for you, is to date separately. Searching for a woman to add to your coupledom is almost sure to fail. We see it again and again here, the aftermath from either a couple, or a unicorn/HBB (hot bi babe), where there was jealousy, unequal affection, trouble sharing living space, unicorns lying to themselves about loving both of the couple when they were really only into one, or one of the couple feeling sidelined, and the list goes on.

Now, if you and your wife date separately, if your taste in partners meshes at all, who knows? One of your future partners may realize she also loves/lusts for the other spouse. That is a natural triad, and not unicorn hunting, and it can be very nice when it happens. But don't go looking for a girl to fit in a box.

 

[Duckshoes]

I don't think either of us are interested in just solo dating. It's just not what we are looking for. My wife and I spoke a bit last night about it, and really, she is just in a different place and wants different things. We are looking for a relationship where we are included in the person's life. Our ex doesn't want any type of commitment. That's fine, just not compatible.

Looking back, I feel like the ex always kept us at arms' distance. We never meet her friends. She didn't really talk much about her day, We were ofte surprised at the things that she'd kept hidden from us.

I don't fault her. She just didn't want to open up to us like we wanted. That she went on her date less than 48 hrs after the break-up also shows that she was able to move on much quicker than we were.

I'm not mad about any of this. She was just looking for something different than we were.

 

[CattivaGattina]

Fyi, if you want a committed relationship and not date solo, you are going to need to be okay with the other person having another relationship as well. Expecting them to be only with you, and not be able to have legal benefits, or in some cases, not have children of her own if she wants, will make it near impossible to find anyone.

 

[Natja]

I think the point Magdlyn was trying to make, Duckshoes, is that not many women are interested in what you are offering. As long as you have a standard unicorn box you require someone to fill, the less likely you are to ever find someone to fit into it. As already pointed out, most triads are formed accidentally, not as a result of looking for one.

Also, I would hazard a guess that the younger your demographic, the less likely you are to be successful. The healthiest triads I have seen are those where all the people are past their childbearing years.

 

[Duckshoes]

I think the point Magdlyn was trying to make is that not many women are interested in what you are offering. As long as you have a standard unicorn box you require someone to fill, the less likely you are to ever have someone fit ito it. Most triads are formed accidentally, not as a result of looking for one.

And I would hazard a guess that the younger your demographic, the less likely you are to be successful...

This one did form by accident. We were not looking at all. We know now that our concept was difficult for her. We just didn't know beforehand. I don't want her to feel trapped by us, but I also don't want to just be a casual side project. We asked to be a part of her life in a way she doesn't want right now. We are just in different places. We can let her see others but ask that she includes us in her life. I don't just want to see her every other week, while she spends all of her other time with others. I would have a hard time seeing that as a relationship. She wants something different, that's all.

 

[Duckshoes]

Fyi, if you want a committed relationship and not date solo you are going to need to be okay with the other person having another relationship as well. Expecting them to be only with you and not be able to have legal benefits, or not have children of her own, will make it near impossible to find anyone.

We are okay with that (a day late, however). We just want to know that we would be included. She doesn't want commitment right now, it appears. She didn't say that exactly. She told us that the other guy would see her more, and that if she started a third, she would see us even less.

This is worrisome to us, as we can't see how strong of a relationship we could maintain without seeing her on a regular basis. There is no right or wrong here, just different expectations and desires.

 

[Piroska]

Not sure if someone already posted this article or not, but I found it enormously elucidating:

http://davidlnoble.com/so-somebody-called-you-a-unicorn-hunter/

 

[Duckshoes]

Not sure if someone already posted this article or not, but I found it enormously elucidating:

http://davidlnoble.com/so-somebody-called-you-a-unicorn-hunter/

This was a great article! I just wish I'd known all of this before. The only thing I can say is she always said she was happy, that she didn't want more and that we were enough. Then one day that changed, and we overreacted. I know this now, and like so many of life's lessons, I learned it after the fact. She doesn't want to come back to us because she doesn’t want to put more energy into the relationship. I believe that we could construct a scenario where everyone’s needs are met and everyone is happy, but it would take work from all parties to make it happen, something that she has no interest in doing.

I miss her. I get angry at myself for having this happen, but I can't spend the rest of my life wallowing in self pity and apologizing for everything. She knows how to get a hold of us, and if she wants to make it work, we can talk. But otherwise it is over, just time to move on.

 

[Natja]

I believe that we could construct a scenario where everyone’s needs are met and everyone is happy, but it would take work from all parties to make it happen.

May I ask, just out of interest, why you believe this? I see often that even in the face of a lot of (albeit anecdotal) evidence to the contrary, even when couples have fairly disastrous experiences themselves, they still believe that if they find the 'right' person, their triad dreams will come true.

Is it because it is an all-or-nothing situation, as in, there will be no poly unless it is this kind of poly, so the pressure is on to find the 'right' kind of poly?

Or is it because you truly believe the problem lies with the lack of good unicorns, rather than the triad configuration simply being unstable and often untenable?

It might appear judgmental, but really I am curious, because I have seen couples say this on many sites over the years, after a bad experience with a failed triad. (It is worth noting that I have never seen a failed unicorn do the same.) They are still hopeful that "their girl" is out there, but I just wonder... why?

 

[Duckshoes]

May I ask, just out of interest, why you believe this? I see often that even in the face of a lot of (albeit anecdotal) evidence to the contrary, even when couples have fairly disastrous experiences themselves, they still believe that if they find the 'right' person, their triad dreams will come true.

Is it because it is an all or nothing situation as in, there will be NO Poly, unless it is this kind of Poly...so the pressure is on to find the 'right' kind of Poly?

Or is it because you truly believe the problem lies with the lack of good Unicorns, rather than the configuration simply being unstable and often untenable?

It might appear judgemental but really I AM curious because I have seen couples say this on many sites over the years after a bad experience with a failed triad (it is worth noting that I have never seen a failed Unicorn do the same) that 'they are still hopeful that "their girl" is out there but I just wonder....why?

I believe it because my wife and I love her so much that it is hard to think otherwise. We don't want her to be a unicorn. We want her to be happy, and if that includes her seeing others, then we will be happy with that. The communication by all was not where it needed to be. We didn't know how she felt because she didn't tell us. Maybe she didn't know herself. And as such, our reaction to the news was based on immediate shock and it was handled poorly. I don't want her to live a life that isn't true to herself. That isn't fair.

Right now, the only missing piece is her. My wife and I are willing to talk, and even start over with just some dates, but she has to want to do it too. I learned a long time ago that trying to change someone's mind only makes them more entrenched. I don't want to change her. I just want to talk with her and find out why we can't make it work again.

I don't think for us this is a poly/no poly scenario. I can see this working with others in the future. Perhaps this one is simply not to be. I have had failed mono relationships and moved on, and now a failed poly relationship. I don't want her to be the one that got away though, so it has been hard to just give up. I have always tried in everything I do to find a solution. I really believe that nothing is impossible and that there is always a way. Success is simply standing up one more time than you fall down. Maybe I'm delusional. I don't know.

 

[WhatHappened]

We didn't know how she felt because she didn't tell us. Maybe she didn't know herself... Our reaction to the news was based on immediate shock and it was handled poorly.

But she did tell you. Didn't you say this started because she told you she wants to see others? And you said no. And now you've changed your mind, but she isn't giving second chances? Is that the story now?

 

[Duckshoes]

But she did tell you. Didn't you say this started because she told you she wants to see others? you said no... now you've changed your mind, but she isn't giving second chances?

You are correct. But what she told us before was that she was happy with just us, she didn't want others, she was polyfidelious (sp?). So we were caught off guard, shocked.

I don't deny that we have changed our views, but that is because we didn't have the education. She told us she had been asked out and we either could accept that or she would leave. We were stunned and didn't react in the way we would now. I don't want to come across as a victim or try to downplay our part, but it was like a kick in the gut and a reversal from everything we knew to be true. That is why I want to talk, so that she understands why we acted the way we did, and that maybe we could hit the reset button and move forward, with everyone understanding how this came to be, and what could be done for the future. We simply love her too much to throw this away.

 

[WhatHappened]

... What she told us before was that she was happy with just us, she didn't want others, she was polyfidelious (sp?). So we were caught off guard.

I don't deny that we have changed our views. She told us she had been asked out and we either could accept that or she would leave. We were stunned and didn't react in the way we would now. It was like a kick in the gut and a reversal from everything we knew to be true. That is why I want to talk, so that she understands why we acted the way we did, and that maybe we could hit the reset button, and move forward with everyone understanding how this came to be, and what could be done for the future.

I guess I don't understand why you keep saying you didn't know how she felt. I get that she had been happy, or at least told you she was, up until then, but if she said, "I want to go out with someone else," you knew THEN that that's how she felt. And you told her no.

My guess, based on your story and her refusal to give any second chances, is that there's a bit more, and that there were other reasons all along she was not as happy as you say. Most people don't go from HAPPY to NO SECOND CHANCES in a heartbeat.

 

[Duckshoes]

I guess I don't understand why you keep saying you didn't know how she felt. I get that she had been happy, or at least told you she was, up until then, but if she said, "I want to go out with someone else," you knew THEN that that's how she felt. And you told her no.

True. For the period between her telling us, and us responding poorly because we were in shock, we did know. I would say, however, that the lead-up to this did not indicate anything. I think had she brought up the topic without giving us the ultimatum of "I date or I'm gone," we could have talked about it in a different way.

My guess, based on your story and her refusal to give any second chances, is that there's a bit more, and that there were other reasons all along she was not as happy as you say. Most people don't go from HAPPY to NO SECOND CHANCES in a heartbeat.

I have mentioned this in previous posts and I agree with you. I think she had other issues she didn't bring up with us. But since she didn't say anything, I can't really speak to anything other than what I can infer.

 

[IndieSolo]

I think had she brought up the topic without giving us the ultimatum of I date or I'm gone, we could have talked about it in a different way.

It sounds like you wish she would've asked you for permission. However, it seems she was simply taking charge of her life.

Did she really put it as an ultimatum, or was it more like, "This is what I want to do. I hope you can deal with it"? The way you put it sounds so over-the-top dramatic.

But I empathize with your broken hearts. The hurt really sucks.