Another coping thread

H

Hapoj

New member
Hello, it looks like there are plenty of threads here for coping already, but it seems like everyone has their own unique situation and gets their own suggestions and advice for it, so figured I'd go ahead and make my own.

I'll go ahead and try and keep the background short ish if I can, so if anyone has any questions, just let me know and I'll elaborate.

My wife and I have been together for 7 years now. We actually met through an online browser based game, and neither really had any intentions of 'meeting someone' and were both there to 'escape' situations with bad marriages we were in at the time that were in the process of ending. We connected really well and became very close, and after a while she moved up here to be with me. We have a pretty strong relationship, and relatively few and small disagreements really. I have never been more happy in my life, and neither has she.

However, she recently started developing strong feelings for a friend of ours. (online friend, we still game together as a hobby) She began to feel very guilty because of it and started beating herself up about it, including trying to close off communication with him altogether. Which of course ended up making her miss him and didn't help at all. When she realized this, she decided she couldn't just avoid it, but didn't know what to do. She talked to another friend of ours about everything that was going on. Who immediately suggested of course that she tell both of us about it.

We have always had strong and open communication, so all of the talking about things went as well as can be expected, but it was still a very difficult conversation all around. She was beating herself up about it nonstop, which I hated, because her being in pain is always the last thing I want. I wish I could have been fully supportive without feeling hurt at all, but as previously mentioned, we both have a lot of, but different types of, damage/baggage from each of our previous marriages. The whole situation, pokes at a lot of my old wounds, which has made it hard to deal with all this.

It seems like this is a deep and genuine connection she's having, and it's a part of her. It's not going away, and it's something she needs. She says she doesn't love me any less, this is just something else thats there now too, and I believe it, and after reading several things I think I understand it a little better too. So I want to be supportive of it. We've talked a whole lot, and I think come up some guidelines that we're both ok with for our future. We haven't officially made any decisions, and are still in active discussions about everything, but it feels like this is something she'll need to be truly, completely, happy... so I want to move forward...

The problem is, and I strongly feel it has to do with my past, that I am having a hard coping with it all emotionally I guess. It makes perfect sense, and I want to move forward, but I'll semi-randomly have little mini breakdowns, and if she sees it, she starts getting down on herself even more than before because I'm hurting even a little. I think I've talked her in to giving me a couple weeks to try and cope and such before starting to think about other solutions or her blaming herself (or leaving "so she doesn't hurt me", which is one of the things that scares me). But that means at this point, I need to try and figure out if this is just past dmg being opened a little, and I'll be fine, or if this is something that maybe I do have a problem with at my core, and just don't know it yet =/

All I know right now is, that every other time I see her msging on her phone, whether it's to a friend, or for business or anything else, I can't help but wonder, and it starts to hurt a little. And other times there won't even be a trigger I know of, but I'll just start breaking down and tearing up. I'm feeling sick to my stomach the way I was back in my last marriage, but it's a very different situation, and I'm extremely grateful for the honesty and communication. However, at this point I've only been able to maybe sleep 5 hours in the last 3 days, and am currently down about 15 lbs in those 3 days also... I think I can hold out quite a while longer even in my current condition, but I'm trying to be honest with myself, and if I didn't find somewhere to turn, and someone to talk to, I know things won't get better, and I need to try and turn things around sooner rather than later for the sake of my kids.

Well, that feels a lot longer than I was hoping, but there is still probably a whole lot left out believe it or not, so as I mentioned, ask any questions for anything you want to know, or think is relevant. Thanks in advance to those that take the time to read and/or help.
 
Hapoj said:
..I need to try and figure out if this is just past dmg being opened a little, and I'll be fine, or if this is something that maybe I do have a problem with at my core, and just don't know it yet =/
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Hi Hapoj and welcome -

I know you'll get some helpful responses about your specific situation, but I just want to address this point. No matter the relationship, you don't have to poke and prod trouble spots in order for them to dissolve. You can dig forever, but there is no bottom that will relieve you of your anxiety, so it really doesn't matter where your troubling thoughts came from. Yes, sometimes a little insight helps, but what really brings relief is thinking about yourself and the people in your life in different ways, telling different stories. The world doesn't respond to what we are, the world responds to what we feel we are and how we feel is always, in every moment, an inside choice based on our thoughts. My point is that your feeling more at peace about all of this is in no way dependent on wrestling your past to the ground. There really is no such thing as your "core" that is immovable, and there especially is no such thing as having to suffer in the control of your past. There is, in reality, always today and the perspective/thoughts you choose anew in every moment. Change your thoughts, change the way the world responds, change your life. You're in the driver's seat here, not the long list of injuries from your past (and we all have them!) If you want to open your thoughts to allow this beloved woman fully in your life, you can. It's a matter of how you perceive your relationship with her, not a matter of being subject to painful memories or a "core belief" that you have to feel tortured by. Beliefs are just thoughts we keep thinking over and over - and beliefs, values, the way we see things can always change. You may or may not decide that a poly type of relationship will work for you, but your choice will be based on what you want now, not on what your "core" or your past dictates.
 
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Hapoj said:
She was beating herself up about it nonstop, which I hated, because her being in pain is always the last thing I want...... I'll semi-randomly have little mini breakdowns, and if she sees it, she starts getting down on herself even more than before because I'm hurting even a little.
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Also, the more you can see yourself and your wife as fully capable, whole, functioning people, the better. These attempts to spare one another the truth, in attempts to protect the other from pain, really don't work and don't serve the integrity of your relationship. A new friend recently pointed out to me where I do this in my own marriage and it was very helpful for me to turn my thoughts to a new perspective from her viewpoint. When we hold onto guilt (which is what you're describing here) we really undermine the capabilities of our loved ones and we doubt the strength of our relationship. I think one of the magnificent attributes of this forum community is seeing exactly how many people can and do maintain strong, loving relationships that are built on confidence and freedom, fairly free of guilt and fear. It's really helpful to know this can be done and to know that if other peope are doing it, you can, as well.
 
Good advice about. Just do not do something to drive her into the arms of another man. What worked to keep our marriage going for over 40 years and our triad for 38, is open and honest communication. What helps is just asking her what needs you are not fulfilling for her and then work on it. One of the worst things you can do is make her choose between you and someone else. You want to make her want to stay with you by your behavior and actions, not because you are forcing her too. Good luck.
 
Hi Hapoj,

You mentioned things in your past (former marriage) that may be influencing your reactions now. I for one would be curious to know what those things are.

Clearly, you and your wife care about each other. Neither of you wants to hurt the other one. No one is deliberately causing a problem here, there is just a challenging set of circumstances that you both have to deal with.

It would probably be helpful to see a poly-friendly therapist, but we'll do what we can on this forum to help too.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

The problem is, and I strongly feel it has to do with my past, that I am having a hard coping with it all emotionally I guess. It makes perfect sense, and I want to move forward, but I'll semi-randomly have little mini breakdowns, and if she sees it, she starts getting down on herself even more than before because I'm hurting even a little. I think I've talked her in to giving me a couple weeks to try and cope and such before starting to think about other solutions or her blaming herself (or leaving "so she doesn't hurt me", which is one of the things that scares me). But that means at this point, I need to try and figure out if this is just past dmg being opened a little, and I'll be fine, or if this is something that maybe I do have a problem with at my core, and just don't know it yet =/
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Sometimes it helps to look at things in another format. I am going to take the liberty of breaking that down like bullet lists.


WANT

  • I want to move forward. I want to do this "V" thing. I am excited about it and looking forward to it.
  • I'm willing to pay the price of admission -- changing things and adjusting to the changes.

PROBLEM

I'll semi-randomly have little mini breakdowns. (<-- Not unreasonable, changes are sometimes challenging. Even if you want this change, you will mourn the loss of the previous relationship shape. The "old normal" is gone. The "new normal" is not here yet. It feels weird in between and that is ok. )

If she sees me struggling?

  • Unspoken: She does not comfort me. She does not thank me for the effort. She does not encourage me.
  • She beats herself up. And she says she's going to leave so "she doesn't hurt me." (<-- I could be wrong but that seems weird. Like here you are in the attention spotlight needing some TLC, and she flips it around so SHE is the one in the attention spotlight. Is this true? :confused:)

MY RESPONSE

  • Give me a couple of weeks to process this before doing anything rash. (<-- now instead of processing your emotions, it sounds like you are doing damage control for hers. )


To me it sounds like you are willing to do this and just need time and space to digest it all. It being not entirely comfortable is part the price of admission. Changes can sometimes be challenging. Are you suffering some poly hell things?

But it also sounds like she wants it to be all hunkydory right NOW so she doesn't have to watch your struggle. But then that just ADDS another load on.

Like...

  • I have to adjust to this big change. That's one load of laundry. It's big too. So let me DO it. I'm willing.
  • But then here you come bringing me more big baskets -- that you are going to leave me because you don't like watching me do laundry.
  • Well, do you want me to do it or not so we can have the "V" we would like?

That's not the best analogy but... is there something to it? Is she making your load bigger with her behavior? And if her response is to threaten to bail, you feel unappreciated in your effort to accommodate, adjust and move this forward?

I don't think this is about your past, or something at your core. I think it could be her behavior.

I wouldn't love it if I was trying to do hard work to make changes and my partner is ADDING to the problems rather than TAKING AWAY.

What's with the beating herself up thing? Could a counselor help her sort that out? It's like she's taking responsibility for your feelings or ownership of your feelings. But that's not healthy sounding boundaries. YOU are responsible for your feelings. YOU own your feelings. She does hers.

Besides, your feelings in transition sound normal and natural enough to me. Growth happens at the edges of the comfort zone. Growing pains are to be expected. Changing from one model to another comes with stuff to process. It just is what it is.

Galagirl
 
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I completely agree with GalaGirl's advice. Your situation sounds similar to mine when my husband, Roger, started dating his first girlfriend, Taylor. It was ROUGH on me for loads of reasons, but when I wanted to share that difficulty and get support, he often felt incredibly guilty for "causing" me pain and frequently stated that he should end things. It took me telling him bluntly, "yes, this is hard for me, but I'm willing to grow. And so I am looking for your support in this while it's hard for me, not looking for you to fix or solve the problem. Because it wouldn't actually be fixing it if you were to end the relationship anyway - it would just be delayed until the next time you met someone meaningful in your life." I also learned how to do a bubble map when we were talking, in the sense that if we were talking about my difficulties and he started pulling the conversation to how badly he felt that I was struggling, I would note this deviation from the topic, validate that he wanted to discuss this, but inquire into whether or not we could focus on what I was sharing and revisit his guilt later or if it were so pressing that we should change topics. A lot of it came from us being very enmeshed and him learning that I WAS okay with him dating her. It was just really hard at that time, and I needed time to process (and was willing to have uncomfortable emotions to move past it).

Just a few unformed thoughts on my end!
 
First of all, I'd like to thank you all for your help and feedback. Each one helped me at least a little in a different way.

@Len I agree, I have no desire to make her choose, the main issue here, is that if there is too much pain for either of us from any decision we make, she feels the first step of course is to re-evaluate, but if we can't find a situation where we can both be completely happy the next step is talking about separating(romantically, we have kids together and will make sure we stay on good terms to make all of that as manageable as possible) We've talked about it at length, and she never really felt unfulfilled in any way, it was more just that she was caught off guard when she started developing real feelings and everything has expanded from there. Since then we've come to realize this is something she has had minor issues with in past relationships, but it never really understood it, and never occurred that anything poly was even an idea/option.

@Karen You said soo many things that addressed different parts of the issues I've been dealing with, and I'm grateful for them all, but I'm gonna keep my response here to one main part. One of the things you said, that has both helped me a ton, and scared the hell out of me. I've read it in a few areas and you said it again here, a key feature in being able to make all this work, is seeing myself as a whole, unique individual. I'm guessing it's a fairly common obstacle for new people trying to learn and adapt to a lifestyle change like this. But it's a common thing to be taught, or feel that when you marry, you are connecting with your 'one and only', and while I think I have come to understand, it's still kind of... ummm... uprooting? to try and accept this change of view. But I'm working on it.

@Kevin First off, how would I go about finding a poly-friendly therapist in my area if we do decide to go that route? And now for a bit of details about my personal background to answer that question. My first marriage, I got married fairly young, although we didn't exactly rush into it. Anyway, over the course of the relationship, she would cheat, I would of course find out. If I'd ask, she'd lie about it and deny it as much as she could, unless or until I'd provide some sort of proof, then she'd acknowledge it, cry, and apologize. I have always been fairly direct so I'd ask if she wanted to end things, she'd say no, and say it wouldn't happen again. This would repeat itself quite a bit too often, but I wanted to make it work, so kept giving more chances. After a few times I tried to accept that it was almost guaranteed to happen, and even offered her an open relationship. More because I prefered dealing with sharing her than the pain of the cheating, secrets, and lies. She consistantly would say she didn't want open, and didn't want to leave, that she only wanted me and it wouldn't happen again. I was stuck and trapped, and felt at the time that I couldn't give up as long as she said she was willing to try, no matter what happened to me. I didn't even really want to try anymore after a certain point, but I couldn't give up and divorce. As things continued, it got to the point that even before I found anything, I'd start getting sick(the feeling I mentioned in my first post) and I'd know something was going on and that I'd be able to find something wrong soon. After things continued to go the exact same way(I found out about somewhere around a dozen separate times), eventually I finally got the strength to say I was fed up with it and done. After making that decision, over the next 6-9 months or so, I moved out and met my new wife. Originally we were just kind of support for each other (she was trying to leave an abusive marriage, both physical and emotional) As time went on, I went from feeling like giving up all relationships, to being in a new relationship better than I even realized was possible.

This brought up all of those feelings, but I've clung to a few key things to keep me together, the main thing being that she never tried to hide anything from me. At every point along the way, she's been kind, considerate and honest with me about all her feelings and worries. That is something that I am more grateful for than I can say, and has really helped me in both my decision to move forward with this, as well as the strength to actually try.

Also, just a note for you all. After reading through these and really taking some time to think on them and focus on the situation, I'm starting to feel a little better. I'm still not doing great, but it feels like things are going in the right direction.
 
Wow, more great replies while I was writing my own reply!

@GalaGirl Thank You tons, both for the breakdown and the link!(that link really helped me with understanding some of the things I'm going through even without realizing it... I've also given it to her to read through tomorrow so we can try and spend some time discussing some of the areas that might cause future conflicts as we proceed, and maybe be better aware in general of what I've been going through, and will be going through) The way you broke things down definitely helped me see things a little more clearly. Everything that is going on is rather overwhelming, and having a simple breakdown of things like this really makes it a lot easier to process, and a good deal less scary. Also, the way you simply stated that there will be mourning between the old and new, it was something I was experiencing, but I didn't even realize that was part of what I was feeling. As for her reactions during this. Luckily for me you were a little bit off of your assessment. She has been trying to comfort me, but also having some real struggles with her own guilt in all of this. And because of her last relationship, one of her first reactions is to run. After a little more time to really get through things, she moves away from that, and when we were talking she said she knows that there are a lot of options we can go through, and it's just hard to see me in pain.

The plan for now, is to make sure to keep open communication with the involved parties, take a month or two to try and get a feel for things, see what develops and try and be as honest and open as we can with how we're feeling (including when I'm in pain, as much as I might not like showing her)
A couple other things I'd like to mention... she is currently in counselling, and started a little while before all of this came up. She is aware she has issues she needs help figuring out and working on. :)

And also, I think I only mentioned it briefly, but the other guy is a mutual friend of ours. I hold no ill feelings toward him, and he's done everything he can to try make this as easy as possible on both of us. He even came and asked if closing off from her or us would help. I'm pretty sure he even refused to accept to himself that he also has feelings for her until after I had msgd him directly telling him I was fully aware of everything, and that him and I were ok. He really is genuinely a great guy. The issues here, are that clearly some of the dynamics involved are changing quite a lot. Even though I've tried to keep active communication with him, things just seem a bit off, maybe even awkward. It's completely understandable of course, and I'm not even sure if it's coming from his side, mine, or even both. For some reason I'm wanting to ask if it's normal for us to be friends, or if it's normal for us to distance ourselves and basically limit things to just sharing her... however I've rather quickly come to the conclusion that 'normal' isn't a word or concept I can even rely on right now, because there is a chance that nothing is 'normal' (at least not for me, and not right now lol) So instead, I'll ask for open ended comments or advice on my relationship with him and what I should try and do about it or with it.

And @reflections and nycindie thank you both also. I really felt time to work through the feelings and uncomfortableness/pain was what I needed, but being so emotional meant I kept second guessing things and doubting myself. Hearing that time and processing is often one of the main things thats needed, helped give me renewed strength.
 
Hapoj said:
.... a key feature in being able to make all this work, is seeing myself as a whole, unique individual. I'm guessing it's a fairly common obstacle for new people trying to learn and adapt to a lifestyle change like this. But it's a common thing to be taught, or feel that when you marry, you are connecting with your 'one and only', and while I think I have come to understand, it's still kind of... ummm... uprooting? to try and accept this change of view. But I'm working on it.
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You have been working on it for quite some time (yay!) because you are deeply drawn to women who are working on this, as well. Many of us bumble through relationships for years as we struggle to balance our intimate connections with our desire for autonomy. There are few guidebooks that show us how to navigate and even fewer role models, but it certainly can be done - and you are clearly on your way. Whether someone can't be open about embracing emotional/sexual autonomy (cheating) or can be open (poly) is largely a matter of education and courage. You and your wife have the courage, now you're seeking more education and that is wonderful, however challenging the lessons may be.

We're all told that "become one flesh" story, but anyone who has sustained a long term marriage will tell you that a main ingredient in a mutually satisfying LTR is allowing each person to be just that: a separate person. The "one mind, one flesh" idea works for a decade or so (at best) but the truth comes out eventually and we all sense the need to spread our autonomous wings. Not everyone wants to express his/her autonomy sexually, but many do and personally, I think that many more LTRs would remain intact if the partners allowed a much wider berth in autonomous expression, whatever form it takes. "The Seven Year Itch" (the concept) is all about how the individuals within a couple negotiate the desire to remain intimate while allowing each other the freedom (very often emotional and sometimes sexual) that every fully grown adult requires.

BTW, the ideal of the "one and only" all-satisfying spouse is a shockingly recent social invention and still only held in pockets in the world. It's not a given by any means. Throughout most of history and still in much of the world, marriage is for economic & social stability and that's it. Emotional and sexual desires were expected to be fulfilled elsewhere, especially for men. Many cultures looked the other way or didn't even "see" intense emotional intimacies between women, which has been a source of everyday love throughout history. Married couples in most cultures have rarely expected to experience romantic love and continued sexual desire for just one another throughout life, so why we teach this as some ideal in our culture is beyond me. In our present culture we view romantic love outside of the "approved" mono couple as somehow irresponsible and dangerous, when the grand portion of human experience has shown us that love has absolutely no association with the bounds of anything. People have always loved in addition to and outside of marriage and always will. Why we fight against this pervasive human experience remains a mystery to me.
 
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Re (from Hapoj):
"How would I go about finding a poly-friendly therapist in my area if we do decide to go that route?"
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Try one or more of the following:

Alternatively, if you find a therapist who hasn't heard of poly but who's willing to keep an open mind about it, ask him/her to read "What Psychology Professionals Should Know about Polyamory," a book by Geri Weitzman, Ph.D., Joy Davidson, Ph.D., and Robert A. Phillips, Jr., Ph.D.

Other good books such a therapist might read are "Opening Up" and "More than Two."

Re: your metamour ... every situation is different; while I'd say befriending your metamour is more often the most helpful thing to do, it's not at all a requirement. I would say don't try to force anything one way or another; if you feel like hanging out with the guy, great; if you don't, you don't have to.

Re: your previous wife ... was amazingly dishonest and I'm not surprised that you developed some knee-jerk reactions to the least subconscious thought about cheating. I don't expect you to heal from that overnight. Sometimes we have to learn to trust the people in our lives in a way we couldn't have done previously, and trust is usually the product of piecemeal experience.

If you'll continue posting here, I'm certain we can continue to help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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