Breakdown of hinges V

[FallenAngelina]

...so if they want to talk I listen.

It's good to be a good listener, but what do you do when you don't want to listen? Can you find your way to not listening and still loving - when listening is hurtful or upsetting to you? This is part of what healthy boundaries are all about. Worth exploring?

 

[ElMango]

It's good to be a good listener, but what do you do when you don't want to listen? Can you find your way to not listening and still loving - when listening is hurtful or upsetting to you? This is part of what healthy boundaries are all about. Worth exploring?

Definitely worth exploring. Thank you

 

[ElMango]

Maybe update?

Okay so I'm going to kinda put some thoughts together on where I am with this right now, and maybe you all can help me see if I'm on the right track?

-When DADT is agreed on, stick to it; that is okay to do and a good boundary. It is healthier for both parties when it is stuck to. Not sticking to it was neglecting myself
-Not sticking to the DADT flared some negative feelings in me that I need to work on
-I need to work on finding a way to not listen but sort out in my head how to still be loving in that situation
-Feeling vindicated is just a feeling; I just have to treat it accordingly

Thanks again guys

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

It's a bit like telling your parents that your partner is horrible to you and then wondering why they don't welcome them into their home. Sometimes the way to keep all your loved ones loving each other is to choose carefully where you vent so as not to create conflict or ill feeling between people who all care about you.

 

[PinkPig]

It's a bit like telling your parents that your partner is horrible to you and then wondering why they don't welcome them into their home. Sometimes the way to keep all your loved ones loving each other is to choose carefully where you vent so as not to create conflict or ill feeling between people who all care about you.

I'll second this.

 

[FallenAngelina]

-Not sticking to the DADT flared some negative feelings in me that I need to work on

I find it helpful to notice when I feel resentment. In my experience, resentment of another crops in only where I have compromised my own values and have ignored my own needs. Resentment can creep in only in places where I am wavering and unsure. When I am clear about something and I internally stand by it with no inner conflict, the feeling of resentment is impossible and I am much better able to let other people be separate and capable of navigating their own lives. When I can stand by my limits without apology to myself, I am much more available to love.

 

[ElMango]

Thanks guys!

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you are/were watching this go down from the side.

-Has anyone gone through this situation or similar before, what did you end up doing for your partner?

I ended up taking a step back and let them figure it out on their own.

It was not my partner. My friend Pencil took up with someone who seemed to be user-y. I told Pencil I didn't care to be around them and to not talk to me about them. It's Pencil's choice who they want to be with and I wasn't going to comment on their dating life. It's their choice.

Just like it's my choice who I want to be with. So when I plan to hang out with Pencil, I want to be with Pencil. This is not me hanging out to hear all the stories about Sharpie. If I wanted to hear it, I'd go make plans with Sharpie. So don't deep detail me about Sharpie.

If Pencil says “Sharpie had a birthday party. I had yummy cake and enjoyed playing this game called...” That's is fine. Because it is mainly about PENCIL'S experience.

If Pencil says “Sharpie had a birthday party. Sharpie said this and that. Sharpie liked the cake.” That's about SHARPIE'S experience and I don't care to know details about Sharpie.

If Pencil says “Sharpie invited me to their bday and then spent the whole time ignoring me and hitting on Stapler.” I don't care to know details. I'll say “I'm sorry that happened and that you are hurt. But I do not deep detail about Sharpie.”

I can be compassionate without getting all deep in it.

-I feel icky about feeling vindicated. Has anyone had experience with that feeling in this situation? Is feeling vindicated (so long as I'm not sharing that with him as it's really mean to do so) kind of...acceptable?

Why do you feel bad about finding out you were right to be hesitant about being too chummy with this person? You don't have to rub it in his face, but neither to you have to feel bad that YOUR radar is working at a level that works for you.

-Is it okay that I really loved being one of the ones he turned to for dealing with this, because I love him and being there for him is important to me, but I wasn't super comfortable with it either.

Is (being there for him) more important to you than (I want to feel safe/comfortable)? Were you over-giving here?

You put your own oxygen mask on first before helping others. And if helping others is going to hurt you or make you unsafe or super uncomfortable, you can say “I love you, but not even for you will I do stuff that hurts me/makes me super uncomfortable.”

You do not have to be up for EVERYTHING.

It almost felt like rubbing salt into me because he just...didn't care before? I know everyone needs to learn certain things in their own time and via experience, but it kinda sucked for me to be listening to the issues I knew would happen, see him hurt by what I knew would happen, and...I dunno it's kinda complicaited feeling too.

I am going to guess. I might guess wrong.

You sound like you put him and his well being first. Rather than paying attention to what you need to be ok first.

And then you were watching him do the same thing with her. He put her first, and neglected his own care and well being.

Then you felt weird mix of feelings when he told you she admitted to using him for financial gain. You felt vindicated that you were right about her. But then also weird -- maybe because it's holding up a mirror.

Like if you can see it happening when its him giving too much... why can't you see it when it's YOU giving too much?

I'm not really anxious or even super...upset?...I more just feel confused by all the overlapping feelings and need some advice on processing etc.

Please be gentle.

It's ok to feel confused/mixed up.

You may want to think about NOT being up for ALL his stuff if it leads to confusion.

It's ok to be supportive of a partner and listen when they have problems. But if you have been listening SO much you are getting full and worn out? Or when it's about stuff you do not care to know about?

It's ok to tell them “I'm sorry this is happening. I'm full now. I cannot do more.” Or "I'm sorry this is happening. I cannot talk about this topic with you. Talk to X."

It is NECESSARY for your OWN well being to respect your own boundaries.

-When DADT is agreed on, stick to it; that is okay to do and a good boundary. It is healthier for both parties when it is stuck to. Not sticking to it was neglecting myself

Yes.

If he's breaking the DADT, and you let that slide and then you are helping to break it rather the reminding and enforcing the agreement?

Why did you guys make this agreement in the first place? What was it supposed to help with?

-Not sticking to the DADT flared some negative feelings in me that I need to work on

Yup. Work on whatever negative feelings.

Or maybe the thing to work on is KEEPING the DADT boundary so you don't get negative feelings.

I know you like being there for him and love him, but if he comes breaking the DADT thing you have to be able to say "I am there for you and love you. But this case breaks our DADT agreement if I agree to listen to it, so I have to say no, thanks. Try talking to X to air out. Not me."

Then he gets to air out AND the DADT agreement stays unbroken.

-I need to work on finding a way to not listen but sort out in my head how to still be loving in that situation

It is loving to say “I'm sorry this is happening. Unfortunately, I'm not the person to process this with. Try talking to _____.”

You can care without being the one to PERSONALLY listen or escort him through his process.

Just like I can care about my mom getting through her recent root canal thing without ME being the dentist doing the work.

I can do that stuff I can do – give her a ride. Make her soft food for dinner. Things that are actually within my scope.

Maybe all that is in your scope on some topics is to go "I'm sorry this is happening. I can't be the one to help you on this. If you need to air out, talk to X."

You are not "the dentist" and it is ok not to be!

Feeling vindicated is just a feeling; I just have to treat it accordingly

You were right about her behavior being off putting and wanted to keep away. So you decided to DADT.

Why is feeling vindicated bugging you? Is it because you didn't hold up the DADT?

Galagirl

 

[ElMango]

Why do you feel bad about finding out you were right to be hesitant about being too chummy with this person?/Is it because you didn't hold up the DADT?

I guess feeling vindicated just felt almost like I was being petty? Looking over it now with some more distance, a lot of it was the fact that honestly, he has yet to ever share a good quality of hers with me (Seasoneds example with the parents not wanting a spouse over comes to mind). I wouldn't have a friend like that in my life; I've dropped friends for doing similar things.
Part of it is it's like he doesn't value himself enough to know he deserves better in his life. That's sad to see a loved one deal with. I want him to know that he deserves to have friends who won't lie to him and use him; and that just because they're a friend first doesn't negate that when it is a FWB situation.

I do think part of it is the DADT. Like finding out about the gift threw me waaay more than I thought. I don't even particularly like gifts; so It wasn't something I'd ever expect or ask for. I'm happy he is generous and kind-but hearing it be...to be completely honest imo, wasted on a selfish person, was jarring to me. Not hearing about that part alone would have made things way, way, way less icky. It was also the part I heard about face to face, rather than via text. The rest I heard about when I was at work, and distracted, so I could distance myself that way. Having to immediately deal face to face was really too much.

You sound like you put him and his well being first. Rather than paying attention to what you need to be ok first.
And then you were watching him do the same thing with her. He put her first, and neglected his own care and well being.

Then you felt weird mix of feelings when he told you she admitted to using him for financial gain. You felt vindicated that you were right about her. But then also weird -- maybe because it's holding up a mirror.

I was definitely over giving too; I broke it off with my FWB because I could feel myself slipping to the "put others first before yourself" and he has alcohol abuse issues. It was actually B who helped me see I was doing that and helped me stop before I got in way too deep. The Irony!
And this is so spot on about the mirror; that hits home-pot meet kettle. And part of it was also the feeling of like, (and I know had I maintained the boundaries we set in place because I didn't feel comfortable hearing about her because she isn't a good person; he can date who he wants but as you said, I choose who I have in my life. And she isn't one of those people), of like "Dude, I'm here for you, comforting you, doing my damnest to be the best person and partner I can be; and you started dropping the sexual initiation ball with me to chase her tail-and then she fucks you over anyways...AND NOW I AM LISTENING TO WHAT I KNEW WOULD HAPPEN. " It felt like I was getting the shaft even when things made it so that yes, I was right. ANd being right is a good feeling even if it isn't...Overall I just want to be a really great partner. I want to be supportive and kind; all of these negative feelings brought up by ignoring the DADT made me feel the opposite. MASSIVE lesson learned there. I owe it to BOTH of us to maintain a boundary and I AM being a BETTER partner by doing so.

Him and I definitely sorted some things out since and, since they're still friends, the DADTish (basically the Pencil/Sharpie situation to a T) is back; and if she comes over from his birthday party I'm steering clear of her. But, she has commented negatively on my dog (my dog stares at people who have food; this is apparently horrible) being a dog to him in my dogs house; and I expressly told him if she doesn't this TO ME in THE HOUSE I OWN I will NOT tolerate it. I'll basically politely tell her that the dog lives here, she doesn't, and that how she handles that is in her court. He felt this was fair.

My dog is my hard limit I stg. I may need to work on boundaries for me; but talk shit about my child and watch oooout. Honestly, I do get "my house my rules" too, because I did grow up with emotional abuse. I got my very own mortgage to control what I have to live with every day. B knows this, Z does too. I've told off my FIL via Z for over stepping his boundaries in my house; so B's BFF/FWB? Yeah, that's not high on the "tolerate to keep the peace" list.

I think when people I love are venting, my natural instinct is to listen intently and openly. Which, usually, doesn't backfire. I don't have many people who hearing about them agitates me. To date it's J and my FIL via Z. Z and I learned over our 11 years together what is healthy conversation involving his dad and what isn't.

Why did you guys make this agreement in the first place? What was it supposed to help with?

I only ever heard negative things about her; I didn't trust her, and hearing about her made me very uncomfortable. The more I heard the less I was comfortable with her being even involved in the polycule. When it was a "J is coming over today" I was much less agitated than when it was "This is everything going on with J oh and btw she is coming over today"
Like, thanks for telling me she actively cheated on her last partner with her current partner...and now she's going to come over and bone....probably cheating on her current partner.

It is loving to say “I'm sorry this is happening. Unfortunately, I'm not the person to process this with. Try talking to _____.”

For sure this is what I'm going to do if this happens again. I just don't have the bandwidth to listen.

 

[FallenAngelina]

the DADTish (basically the Pencil/Sharpie situation to a T) is back; and if she comes over from his birthday party I'm steering clear of her.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell is different from the situation you're describing and the Pencil-Sharpie example. What you're describing are poly boundaries. DADT is more the agreement that lovers are OK, but the partners don't know if and when and with whom things are happening. DADT is more the agreement to look the other way. It's not dishonest, but it's not visibility, either. I think of DADT as an affair that is previously OK'ed.

The more I read of your situation, the more I would say that this is just a matter of tuning up the boundaries, which is what I have seen and experienced as necessary in every healthy poly relationship. I mention this because it seems like you're wrestling with the idea that if you put limits on what you want to know about and with whom you want to socialize, you're entering into dishonesty or secrecy or whatever non-poly territory, when in fact those very limits (boundaries) are what make a healthy poly relationship even possible.

 

[GalaGirl]

He has yet to ever share a good quality of hers with me.

Could stop listening if it is same ol' song, different day.

If he chooses to hang out with this person? That's his choice to watch that TV show. You don't have to watch or become a fan just cuz he's watching it.

I wouldn't have a friend like that in my life; I've dropped friends for doing similar things.

Then “drop” this person from your “TV watch list.”

You've dropped friends for similar. She's not even YOUR friend. So why she still on your list?

Part of it is it's like he doesn't value himself enough to know he deserves better in his life. That's sad to see a loved one deal with. I want him to know that he deserves to have friends who won't lie to him and use him; and that just because they're a friend first doesn't negate that when it is a FWB situation.

That is HIS belief, and until he works to change it? You cannot do anything about that yourself.

You cannot pick who he befriends or dates.

You get to pick out who YOU befriend/date.

You cannot control if he still picks her out. You can control if YOU still pick him out when he keeps going back to the well over and over.

If he gets involved with odd people repeatedly and keeps bringing you news you don't want to hear when you have already asked him not to deep detail you? And he keeps doing it and you don't like it?

You get to decide if he still meets your personal standard and makes the cut or not.

"Dude, I'm here for you, comforting you, doing my damnest to be the best person and partner I can be; and you started dropping the sexual initiation ball with me to chase her tail-and then she fucks you over anyways...AND NOW I AM LISTENING TO WHAT I KNEW WOULD HAPPEN. " It felt like I was getting the shaft even when things made it so that yes, I was right. ANd being right is a good feeling even if it isn't...

You sound angry about this part. I'm not sure what you mean about "sex initiation ball." Do you mean you two started to have sex and then he brings all this up in bed? If so, that would be off putting.

But basically it sounds like you are saying this:

1) I knew things would get crap with her.

2) Rather than tell him "No, we do not talk about your Sharpie (whatever her name is). That's your stuff to deal with" I signed up to hear him tell me about the Sharpie crap.

3) Then I feel grumpy hearing about his Sharpie crap. I was right about Sharpie crap, but here I am. Listening to Sharpie crap and then feeling crap as a result. I did not keep me out of the Sharpie crap hole.

If you can SEE the crap hole in the floor? Don't agree to go sit in it. What for? How does that make you a great partner?

"Great partner" to you means sitting in a crap hole?

Overall I just want to be a really great partner. I want to be supportive and kind;

You can be supportive and kind.

"Supportive and kind" doesn't have to mean you sitting in a crap hole with him though. It's ok to say "I love you, but I'm not gonna do that. Not even for you."

Love is shared. It doesn't have to be "proven."

And sometimes being supportive and kind? Means saying "No, thanks. I'm sorry you hurt. But I am not the right person for this conversation. Try X maybe?" Modeling what to do instead. Maybe he learns to tell Sharpie "No, thanks" himself and keep his own boundaries better.

all of these negative feelings brought up by ignoring the DADT made me feel the opposite. MASSIVE lesson learned there. I owe it to BOTH of us to maintain a boundary and I AM being a BETTER partner by doing so.

You could model what to do when you see crap holes. You don't get in them! Maybe he learns not to get in them as much seeing that.

But if you both go sit in them, I'm not sure what he learns that is different. And you just get to sit in crap you don't even want in the first place.

This whole “be a great partner” thing – I note you keep bringing it up. Does he tell you that you aren't a good partner? Or are you telling yourself that?

If your overall need is to be appreciated by him? Or not taken for granted? Or your boundaries respected? Ask for what you need.

And DO what you need. YOU appreciate you. YOU don't take yourself for granted. YOU respect your own boundaries.

If your overall need is to steer clear of Sharpie crap? Then do that. It's one thing if you didn't even see it coming. But when you DO see the crap coming? Step aside and avoid it. Take care of YOU.

Don't get so wrapped up in trying to take care of him and over-giving that you neglect to take care of yourself.

It is loving to say “I'm sorry this is happening. Unfortunately, I'm not the person to process this with. Try talking to _____.”

For sure this is what I'm going to do if this happens again. I just don't have the bandwidth to listen.

Good. You first, then other people. Not in a selfish way, but in a self care way. Stop overextending yourself.

Detach from all his Sharpie stuff. You didn't pick Sharpie out. Maintain your boundaries better. Respect your personal limitations.

Galagirl

 

[ElMango]

Basically while pursuing her, for us to have sex h I'd be the only one initiating; if I didn'twe didnt have sex. "Hey wenonly had sex when you made a move but I bought J this sex toy and now she hurt me again" was not an ideal situation. We are a high sex drive family.
Since they stopped being FWB and he's recovered a bit we talked about it and he understands that being neglectful isn't okay.

That's why I asked to stop hearing about her. I didn't want to listen to that same song lol. I just need to make sure that I enforce it and he needs to make sure he follows it.

Yeah going and sitting in a crap hole was not my brightest moment. At least learned from it.

 

[GalaGirl]

Basically while pursuing her, for us to have sex h I'd be the only one initiating; if I didn'twe didnt have sex. "Hey we only had sex when you made a move but I bought J this sex toy and now she hurt me again" was not an ideal situation.

I could see where that would be off putting.

That's why I asked to stop hearing about her. I didn't want to listen to that same song lol. I just need to make sure that I enforce it and he needs to make sure he follows it.

Yup. If he crosses the line? You tell him to back up and not cross it. When you tell him you are not up for this conversation, he could resepct that and not foist it on you.

If he keeps pushing it even after you told him you are not up for it? You could leave the room. He could talk to the sky, the walls, call someone else. You can enforce your personal boundary and just remove your ears. You don't have to be there.

Glad you have decided to be more firm. Don't be listening to Sharpie stuff you don't want to listen to.

I hope being more firm serves you better in future so you can be free of all these "Sharpie things."

GL!
Galagirl