but I don't want a hierarchy

[aqua]

Hi. Overwhelmed here and could use some advice. I'm a married female with a husband and a boyfriend (a V). We're all somewhat new to poly, especially my boyfriend. Things are great right now, but I know my boyfriend does not want to be a "secondary" forever. The thing is, I hate the idea of hierarchies and would ideally want co-primaries, or basically everyone to have equal status. Is it crazy to think that's possible, especially if I can only legally ever be married to one person?

I try to reassure my boyfriend that my husband doesn't have more "say" over things just because he's my husband, which I completely believe is true, but I don't think he believes me. Then I find myself wondering why I got married in the first place, and feel guilty that there is something I can't share equally with both my partners.

Has anyone gone through something similar and/or have any advice?

 

[london]

There are practical ways you can have egalitarian relationships despite the legal, religious or practical entanglement you have with any one person. One major thing is prioritising events rather than people. An easy example of this is say your husband had a golf BBQ and your boyfriend had a family wedding he wanted you to attend. Regardless of who planned what first, you'd cancel the golf BBQ because your boyfriend's family wedding trumps Hubby's annual golf BBQ.

The things include prohibiting rules on how you interact with other partners. You should decide how and when you do things with other people whilst ensuring you do not harm out husband physically or emotionally. You can emotionally harm your husband by not maintaining your relationship and allowing someone you interact with to continue to cause contention in your marriage. Any rule that does dictate how you romantically and/or sexually Interact with people applies to everyone. Nothing is kept special. You don't use a condom because your vagina is only allowed your husband's sperm, you do so because you want to avoid STDs and/or unwanted/accidental preganancy.

By co-primary, you might mean "all live together" and that works out great for some people. You might also mean "co-parent" and want to include your boyfriend as a co-parent for existing children and/or future children. This also works out great for some people. However, your husband and boyfriend might not be compatible to live together and/or parent the same children. That does not mean you'll be unable to have a fulfilling egalitarian relationship with your boyfriend. It just means that your existing responsibilities and obligations render you and your boyfriend incompatible for those particular things. He can still be a regular visitor to your home and someone special in any children's lives. Polyamory means he can seek those things with others if he so wishes. It may not be sharing "primary" entanglements but if you regard your boyfriend's needs as important as your husband's needs and prioritise your resources accordingly, you still have a situation where you are treating your partners equally. You aren't putting your husband's needs above your boyfriend's just because you are married to him. You're understanding that they both need a certain amount from you in order to maintain your relationship and that certain amount increases depending on the level of emotional entanglement the people in the relationship desire.

If everyone in a network thinks along these same lines, it's perfectly possible to co-parent with the boyfriend you don't live with whilst living with your husband who much prefers to be an "Uncle". This approach requires a lot of trust. Trust that your partner wants to maintain your relationship, wouldn't let anyone harm it and would prevent anyone else to attempt to harm it. This involves believing that they have a good judge of character and that they want to avoid drama. You have to be secure in your role in your partner's life and acknowledge how their life benefits from you being in it. Lack of trust and insecurity makes it very difficult to not instill rules that prevent you and/or your partner from having these types of "equal" relationships.

 

[GalaGirl]

It takes time for a new polyship to figure out their way of going.

What does BF need in order to be able to believe you?

• The passage of time, so he can directly observe that various times in various situations your husband didn't have "more say?" Then he can self soothe when he feels anxious?
  
• Clearer expectations of behavior from you? Insight into your thought process for how you prioritize things on your calendar? Then he can see he isn't getting the short of end of the stick and lay that fear to rest?
  
• Something else you can provide now?
  

Could he articulate what he needs so you can tell him if you are willing/able to meet it at this time?

It is true you cannot legally marry more than your husband in many places. But you can have a spiritual union with whomever you wish and have commitment ceremonies if you want to. What is the guilt about? When you date a married woman, you KNOW she's married. It's the part of the price of admission here.

It wasn't a secret the BF found out about much later right?

Galagirl

 

[idealist]

Welcome to the forum! There are lots of supportive people here- people living the poly life and there are just as many ways of living it as there are people living it!!

A hierarchy can link entities either directly or indirectly, and either vertically or horizontally. So- for example, "peers" would have a horizontal link in a hierarchy.

Having been living a poly life for going on 4 years now, I find the most important thing to focus on is how to continue to develop my relationships with the people in my life. I do enjoy philosophical discussions about hierarchies and such, but sometimes that can be a way to avoid the actual issues.

Bottom line- there are no set rules in poly. That may very well be one of the reasons why so many people are drawn to the lifestyle, however it can be quite overwhelming to find out that you really have to make it up as you go along.

Coming and talking to people here can be a great benefit because we all share our experiences and the idea is that we may learn from someone else's mistakes, but that is not always true either because what doesn't work in one situation may well work in another situation.

I encourage you to share more about yourself- maybe start a blog!

 

[aqua]

Thank you for your warm welcome and responses!

I think I do need to have a conversation with my boyfriend about what exactly it is that he doesn't think he can have with me. He certainly knew I was married when we started dating, but while I don't think either of us were looking for "just" a hookup, I also don't think we expected to develop such strong feelings for each other.

Right now I'm doing all I can to show my boyfriend that I do not think of him as a secondary, and have been prioritizing spending time with him because I think that's important to do right now. Perhaps time and having more evidence of my commitment will help things.

Part of my fear is that if he does truly consider himself a secondary (because he doesn't feel like he could be my primary/co-primary while I'm married) that he'll decide to seek out a primary and end things with me. I know my own insecurities are coming out here, and hopefully I can keep them in check while negotiating these relationships!

 

[Dagferi]

Yes it is possible. I am living proof.

 

[IndieSolo]

The Primary/Secondary model is not a requirement for practicing polyamory. I think that it might seem to be more common only because the terminology gets used a lot on message boards like this. It seems to be that many people who are new to poly, and especially if they've read some of the books out there that are focused on couples or if they're coming to poly from a very couple-centric swinging background, somehow believe that there has to be one partner who must come first before any others, and in all situations. Which is poppycock, of course. From what I've seen (here and on the forum at PMM, as well as at local poly get-togethers), with experience comes the realization that egalitarian poly is not only possible but preferable. Also, over time, I think you will see that NOT adhering to a Primary/Secondary hierarchy is much more common than you may have thought.

Part of my fear is that if he does truly consider himself a secondary (because he doesn't feel like he could be my primary/co-primary while I'm married) that he'll decide to seek out a primary and end things with me. I know my own insecurities are coming out here, and hopefully I can keep them in check while negotiating these relationships!

Well, see, that's a funny contradiction you have going there. If he does see his relationship with you as secondary, and he seeks out a primary, why would he end it with you? The whole idea of having a primary and a secondary is to be involved with both of them in different degrees - otherwise, it would be monogamy. Would he prefer to be monogamous?

I think you need to talk to your boyfriend about this. Not in a tearful "I'm-sorry-I'm-such-an-insecure-mess-boo-hoooo" kind of way, but in a thoughtful, matter-of-fact "what do you want in your relationships" and "Here's what I want and what I'm afraid of" sort of discussion. It does seem, from your first post, that you are really doubting yourself. You say: "I try to reassure my boyfriend that my husband doesn't have more "say" over things just because he's my husband, which I completely believe is true, but I don't think he believes me." Well, what do you mean when you say you don't think he believes you? Is it that he didn't offer any response and just gave you a funny look? Did he say "Okaaaaay" with sarcasm? Or did he accept what you told him but you are so full of doubt that you can do this, or are doubting that this is the kind of relationship he would actually stick around for, or whatever, that your projecting your doubts on him?

Ask him directly. Share your fears, let him know how important he is to you. Be vulnerable, be afraid, be strong and ask for what you want... be you. And if you don't want a hierarchy, stop using the terminology. Refer to him as your partner, get into thinking of him that way and not as a secondary, ask his opinion on important decisions you need to make, make sure you treat him with equal respect and consideration that you give your husband. Project an egalitarian attitude, it will rub off and also help him to see that you mean what you say. BTW, what does your husband think about the Primary/Secondary thing vs. equal co-partners?

 

[london]

Part of my fear is that if he does truly consider himself a secondary (because he doesn't feel like he could be my primary/co-primary while I'm married) that he'll decide to seek out a primary and end things with me. I know my own insecurities are coming out here, and hopefully I can keep them in check while negotiating these relationships!

I'm assuming what you mean by this is that you fear he will find a monogamous relationship. I'm speaking as if that is the case. So feel free to skip if it isn't.

I think that you have a certain right and even if you don't, it would certainly be wise to have a frank discussion about where he feels monogamy fits into his life.

Does he think he could be monogamous with you whilst you remain married if you could offer him primary entanglements?

Does he think that the offer of a monogamous relationship with possible primary entanglement with a highly compatible hotty would be tempting?

How much of a priority is finding poly friendly partners when he dates? Is it a necessity or a bonus?

From these kind if questions, you may be able to have some idea how committed he is to ethical non monogamy, and that in turn gives you some indication of the likelihood of him breaking up with you to pursue a monogamous relationship. It's all rhetorical though. His feelings may change when it isn't rhetorical and that's just a risk.

All you can do is let him know that he can have the things he wants out of his relationships with you or with additional partners. And you support that.

 

[WhatHappened]

Perhaps time and having more evidence of my commitment will help things.

But what is your commitment? You're committed to....what? To maintaining your relationship with him until you're both tired of it? For life? Committed to building a life together that includes a joint home and bank account? Committed to having children together someday? Committed to not giving your husband veto power over him?