Can this work?!

T

tamlvscarl

New member
I've been a lurker on this site for quite a while. Probably a little over a year, to be exact. I've been married to my husband for 17 years. We have 2 children living at home with us. Our oldest son (my son; my husband's stepson) has already moved out of the house.

We've had many threesomes (MFF). I struggle with jealousy and mixed emotions.

Three years ago, he started dating a woman on the side. We had many ups and downs, lies, roads with more potholes and speed bumps than I can really even get into without this intro going on forever.

Fast forward to last year-- we decided to try to make it work, the three of us. It seemed to be going well for a couple months, but still a lot of fighting, jealousy and arguments with him over time, and so many other obstacles. She and I decided to call it quits at the end of last year. He continued his relationship with her.

My main struggles are sharing my 'wife' status with someone else. We divide our time with him almost evenly, but she doesn't interact with our family and friends. She and I have recently started talking again, but we seem to be going in circles. There is still a constant battle over time with him-- who does what, goes where, etc. I feel like I genuinely want to be part of a triad, and don't know if it's not working because she simply isn't the right person (we are very different and seem to have to try really hard to get along), or because of their long history without me being involved.

OPINIONS and ADVICE are desperately needed, please!!
 
I may not be the best at answering this, but can only say from own experience that a triad does not really work unless all three have a clear understanding and agreement about what everyone wants and expects.

Also, in our experience, there must be a desire for the three of you to spend as much time together as possible. Otherwise someone is always going to be left out. The fact that you and he have a family together is admirable, but you must let go of the feeling of control, if you can accept that she has as much say as you and he do in deciding the things you are alluding to above. Then it may work. As for us, we just all go together to events. People may wonder why, but we don't care anymore.

Finally, if you do not have a yearning in your heart to be with her, she may not be the right one for you. Have you two gone out, off for a weekend together? There must be equal love and sexual energy all around or it is not a workable triad. Maybe you need to find another for yourself.
 
A long and bumpy road strewn with potholes is not mended by traveling on it further.
 
Hi tamlvscarl,
Welcome to our forum.

You have several relationships that need time and tending to among the adults in this triad:

  • each of the three of you individually -- "you time"
  • you and husband
  • you and girlfriend
  • husband and girlfriend
  • all three of you together -- "group time"
If any of those areas are getting neglected, then there will be fractures in the relationships and hard feelings. Please sit-down (all three of you) and figure out how you can spend quality time for each dyad.

One other thing would be to write up lists of your wants and needs. Then, have a sit-down where you share those lists with each other, and try to work as a team to get everyone's needs met as much as possible.

Sometimes things get easier over time. You will probably need a lot of patience to even attempt to save this. Also, try to learn to be a better listener, even if husband and girlfriend don't follow your good example. You need a better understanding of what's driving their behavior.

I wish you well, and hope Polyamory.com can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
tamlvscarl said:
She and I decided to call it quits at the end of last year. He continued his relationship with her.
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Sorry, Kevin, and Razorbacktat, I think you may have missed this bit. She is no longer in a triad. She is an arm of a V, it sounds like.

Other than that, I would heartily second Kevin's advice. It sounds like trying to negotiate together for a written solution seems very wise.

Any chance you could see a poly-friendly counselor? They are available online, if you are remote.
 
Thanks for all the replies and feedback.

Yes, as of now, I am just an arm of a V. Sorry if I'm not using the wording correctly. It's still so new to me.

Last time around, we opened the relationship up, sat down and had a discussion, the 3 of us, and decided on a schedule and what to expect. We mostly divided his time between the two of us. She and I spent some time together, but not as much, and we also spent time doing things as the three of us.

It started to go sour, so I ended it with her, because I felt I needed to focus on my relationship with just him. We were fighting a lot. This time around, we decided to become friends, her and me first, and work on our relationship before we bring him into it again. We're still encountering problems. We went on a 'first date' with the agreement that we wouldn't discuss him, since we were trying to work on just us first. Through most of the date she discussed him-- "him this, him that." It makes me and made me uncomfortable.

We had talked about this last year because, in a lot of ways, I don't want to hear about him and her. It's hard to share the person you love, and I am trying to come to terms with it. I just don't want all the little details. I guess I broke the rules as well, because I went to him about all of this when he asked how the date went. I told her, as well, afterwards, how I felt.

In all honesty, I think I am trying so hard because I know it is extremely difficult to find someone who wants to be part of this, so I feel like she is the only option.
 
Re: vee (instead of triad) ... there are cases where the two "arms of the vee" don't get along much and try not to see each other much except in passing. I know of at least one such vee, and I know it can work.

However, when the arms of the vee *can* have a friendly relationship with each other, I think it's of great benefit to the vee as a whole. My own vee (MFM) has me and the other guy as friends. Not best friends ever, but friends enough to be comfortable with each other. We spend some time together, just us guys, and I think it helps us to stay with the "We're on the same team" mentality.

So, in most cases, I do recommend that the platonic relationship in the vee get its own private time. Whatever those two people enjoy doing together. Add to that the fact that the vee in this thread could conceivably become a triad again later on, and you have my reasons for suggesting the wife and the girlfriend spend some time together. If they just can't do that without driving each other nuts, then I'll modify my opinion.

Re:
"In all honesty I think I am trying so hard because I know it is extremely difficult to find someone who wants to be part of this so I feel like she is the only option."
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That's kind of a sad thought.
 
kdt26417 said:
That's kind of a sad thought.
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Yeah, I wouldn't want to be with someone who's so desperate they're forced to settle for me.
 
We have a lot of anger, resentment and bitterness towards one another, which makes it that much harder to be friendly with each other. Our relationship started on a bad foot from the beginning. I didn't go into too much detail when I first started posting, because I was trying to get some feedback from where we stand right now, with a very brief synopsis of the past. But maybe I have to give more info to get more feedback and you can all understand where I am coming from.

My husband started an affair with her almost 3 years ago, while I was pregnant with our son. She was married at the time, but just 'roommates' with her husband, according to her. I didn't know about her and my husband til a year later. She left her husband with the hopes of my husband leaving me. He slowly gave her more info.

She bought into being part of a triad too, because it was clear he was never going to leave me. I liked the idea, and many aspects of being part of a triad, so I was easily convinced. We had had threesomes with girlfriends in the past, but they were never emotionally connected to either one of us. So with that, we started talking last year. It started going sour, and I said I needed a break.

Fast forward to a couple months ago, I decided I would try again. We began talking and went on a 'first date.' (All the details on how that went are above.) I guess maybe I am just an arm of the V, and there isn't hope of us becoming more. I feel I shouldn't have to try so hard for it to work, so early in the beginning, so maybe it is a sign it isn't and never will work with the three of us. And we were both lied to-- her thinking it was going to be just him and her from the beginning; and me being cheated on (which I blame them both for) when I was at my most vulnerable (pregnant).
 
Well, that does shed a new light on the subject. You will have figure out what you can do in the way of forgiveness -- of which I believe there are two parts:

  • letting go of any ill will,
  • restoration of trust.
The first part, the letting go of ill will, is actually advisable just for the well-being of the forgiver. Even if the forgiven party does nothing to "deserve" the forgiveness.

However, restoration of trust is a more complex part of forgiveness, and requires a process of repentence on the part of the offending party. The party who was hurt should outline some kind of reasonable course of action the offending party can follow to regain trust. Then, the offending party must follow that course of action. Generally it will consist of three parts:

  • apologizing,
  • restitution,
  • providing evidence that the offensive action won't recur.
The girlfriend in this case was both cheating with your husband, and hoping/intending to shatter your marriage. So she has a considerable debt to pay before regaining your trust. As for her expectations and how she was hurt in the situation, I think that is something for your husband to make up to her. It's not your debt. Your husband should also take steps to regain your trust.

The good news is that, I think at least, relationships (and poly relationships in particular) tend to be harder in the beginning. The reason why it's good news is that perhaps it means you can look forward to things getting easier in the future.

It sounds like you and girlfriend could still use some time together, but only on the condition that husband will not be brought up in the conversation. You can decide later if hubby can become an okay topic, but for now I would try to have a girl's night out where you don't have to think about him.

Hope this helps,
Kevin T.
 
I think that is part of the problem.. She doesn't think she has done anything wrong. She has never apologized or even owned up to what she did and what she was trying to do. She feels like she was lied to, so she thought our marriage was already over, so she wasn't destroying anything. But if there is anything that I am not, that is naive, so I can't just dismiss her guilt because he lied to her or made her think we were 'roommates' like she was with her husband. We lived in the same home. I was pregnant (so obviously we were still having sex). It was obvious our marriage was still intact when they began their affair.

He wants to have this rule we leave the past in the past and not bring it up, but obviously that is easier said than done! Memories, bad feelings, being hurt, don't go away just because they are getting brushed under the carpet.

We tried the date by ourselves and she couldn't stop talking about him.
 
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Well, it is hard to determine how extensively your husband lied to her, without actually having been there. Did he indeed inform her that you were pregnant? and if so, how do we know this? because he said so? or has she said as much also?

Also consider that NRE exerts a strong force over the mind. It makes one more susceptible to the power of suggestion ... even mistruth, even if it doesn't add up ... from the partner one is newly in love with.

Has she made a formal agreement with you not to talk about him during her time with you? If not, it might be something to consider to get that kind of agreement from her, if she will give it.

Obviously, there is a long way to go before you and she can have an amicable relationship. Maybe you will have to separate yourselves from one another for awhile, linked only by your husband. But the problem there is, he doesn't seem to be innocent in all of this either. In fact I wonder if he doesn't have far to go in the honesty department.

Re:
He wants to have this rule that we leave the past in the past, and not bring it up. But obviously that is easier said than done! Memories, bad feelings, being hurt don't go away just because they are getting brushed under the carpet.
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See, to me, that sounds like he just wants to avoid the accountability for his own actions.
 
I know for a fact she knew I was pregnant. That is what pushed them together in the first place.

I understand that when you are new and in love, you believe the unbelievable, but that doesn't excuse what she did, does it? That doesn't rid her of any guilt, or saying she was wrong or sorry.

Yes, we had a very clear, upfront agreement this time around that we would leave him out of it for now, and try to build a relationship as if there were no him, first as friends, and then possibly romantically.

I am at a loss of what to do. If we keep things separate, maybe we will grow further apart, and more comfortable in our roles as arms of a V, and nothing more?

I guess he wants to move forward, and not keep having these things thrown in his face, which I can understand. If I'm going to move forward I guess I do have to let it all go. But if only it was that easy to actually do!

Thank you for so much valuable feedback! You've been such a great person to bounce these things off of.
 
Re:
"I understand that when you are new and in love you believe the unbelievable but that doesn't excuse what she did does it?!"
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It doesn't exactly excuse her, it just provides a context and an explanation should she ever begin to say she's sorry.

Re:
"That doesn't rid her of any guilt or saying she was wrong or sorry."
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Indeed, she is still responsible for saying she was wrong or sorry.

Don't forget, even if you can't extend trust to her at this time, you can still let go of any ill will you might harbor against her. That's one part of forgiveness. The regaining trust part is more complicated, and requires work on her part.

Re:
"I am at a loss of what to do ... if we keep things separate maybe we will grow further apart and more comfortable in our roles as arms of a vee and nothing more?"
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Maybe so. And maybe if you get to a comfortable spot in that area, a better chance (e.g. a cleaner slate) will present itself in the future, in which you can try again to be friends. It doesn't always work to try to do everything *right now.*

Re:
"I guess he wants to move forward and not keep having these things thrown in his face which I can understand. If I'm going to move forward I guess I do have to let it all go but if only it was that easy to actually do!"
Click to expand...

I think he has some responsibilities too that he needs to step up to. He needs to admit he was wrong; he needs to apologize, and show that he can be trusted to tell the truth from now on as well.

Hope some of this helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Yes, I agree I need to forgive her, more for myself and my own sanity to move forward, than for her. It would be nice to hear an apology, some responsibility for her actions, rather than just playing the victim.

We took a year off. We cut off all contact whatsoever with one another. Recently we came back to it, and it still seems to be going sour. It started off good this time around, but then we seemed to be throwing digs at one another, competing, one-upping each other. That is what has me questioning if this can ever work.

He has apologized to me numerous times. I think he is pretty honest and upfront with me now. So I do know I need to let it go, which I pretty much have. It's very rare that I bring up the past with him anymore.
 
It sounds like you have a good chance of forming a vee, with husband as the hinge, and you and girlfriend as the "arms of the vee." Given the amount of friction between you and girlfriend, I think I'd suggest you two try to steer clear of each other, at least for now. Vees have been formed in the past where the "arm persons" were not friends, and it has worked. This one can work too, I think.

Keep your interaction with girlfriend down to a minimum for now. If necessary, you can even ask husband to not talk to you about her. Depends how many unmanageable feelings it conjures up to hear about her.

In a year or five years or whatever, you and girlfriend may find you can rub shoulders a little without too much friction. If so, that's great. But if it never happens, that's okay too. You share a man in common and that's enough. You don't have to be friends, just be cordial enough to say hi to each other in passing.

Now, if a separated vee like that is not the kind of configuration you were hoping for, if you really wanted a triad, then perhaps you would try interacting with girlfriend just in small bits at a time. The two of you might get "better at hanging out together" if you don't do it too much at first. Find out what is the sensible limit that you can handle for right now.

Heh, of course there's always breaking up. But I'm thinking you don't want to try anything that drastic just yet. Just don't push yourself too hard, that's all I'm saying.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for all the great advice and feedback. It's nice to be able to actually talk about this out in the open. Friends and family think I'm crazy for sharing. They don't get it. So I appreciate you lending your ear. I think I am going to take your advice, take things slow, not force anything, and see where it leads us.
 
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