Communication advice-full disclosure

N

nycsinger2000

New member
Hi everyone

If any of you have read my past posts you know that my boyfriend and I were struggling to move from a monogamous arrangement to an open one. He feels that his nature is free and open and I've always felt more naturally monogamous. Anyway, I'm happy to say that we are back together and have made a lot of progress. I've made efforts towards acceptance and understanding and he has agreed to some compromises and better communication.

One thing we still struggle with is finding the right communication rules for when we are intimate with other people. When I say other people, I do not mean other established committed relationships. I mean friends, or one night stands. He is very guarded with his privacy and appreciates his autonomy. I have a very anxious and inquisitive mind. We have had major trust issues in the past due to lies he's told or secrets he's kept. At the same time my " need to know" has always felt invasive to him which has led him to this behavior. Nine times out of ten, I'd get a hunch, look for information, put 2 and 2 together and find out he slept with someone and never told me. His not telling me, or lying to cover it up if I confronted him has made my need to know even more persistent. About 7 months ago we had a breakthrough where he agreed that secrets and lies have no place in a relationship and he agreed to start rebuilding trust and to give me full disclosure. He comes from a family that was somewhat restrictive and strict. Now, as an adult he feels like following rules infringes on his autonomy and although he gives me full discloser, he still feels invaded and uncomfortable telling me when he's been intimate with someone else. If he were not to tell me I feel like something is hidden from me.

Right now our rule is that he has to tell me via text message the next day giving me the information of who and how far things went but no specific details unless I ask.

Does anyone have a better option of how to bridge this gap? How can we find a rule that still allows him to feel free to do what he wants to do but feel comfortable telling me? I'd appreciate any suggestions and advice.
 
How can we find a rule that still allows him to feel free to do what he wants to do but feel comfortable telling me? I'd appreciate any suggestions and advice.
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What's his discomfort? Telling the very next day? What's the purpose of that? Why do you need to know the very next day?

Right now our rule is that he has to tell me via text message the next day giving me the information of who and how far things went but no specific details unless I ask.
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Could the agreement be

"Before you and I share sex, we both update if there's been any new partners. No TMI details, just if there's been new people and if safer sex practices were used."​

...instead?

Because then he can be with whoever he wants when he wants. Who he chooses to share HIS body with? Who he chooses to expose himself to? That's his choice.

You can be with whoever you want when you want. Who you choose to share YOUR body with? Who you choose to expose yourself to? That's your choice.

Before you share sex with each other? Agreeing to update sex health news is reasonable. So's using protection. It's part of practicing safer sex.

If he doesn't want to practice safer sex? Well, that's his choice.

If you do want to practice safer sex? It's your choice who you practice it with. You could skip sharing sex with him.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks for your reply. I know it's not always easy for people on here to understand my needs. I'm sure many of you have always found the concept of non-monogamy to be completely natural and therefore the idea of your partner being free to have sex with other people is less threatening.

I'm someone who's lived a very monogamous life for over 20 years. I have very little need or desire to sleep with other people if I'm happy and in love with my partner. Knowing helps me to not feel lied to or as if something is being kept from me for a reason. If I'm not told, I usually figure it out and then I feel like something was kept from me. I would most likely not entertain an open lifestyle if it weren't what he needs. I don't judge it or judge him for needing it; I just don't need it. I wish I could want it myself. I see my poly friends seemingly completely comfortable with their partners being free and wish that were natural to me. We both know the obstacles we face. The main thing is that after 6 years, we are still madly in love, intensely drawn to each other sexually and committed to making it work.

Why do I need to know the next day? It helps me to first of all feel like I'm able to trust him. It makes me feel closer to him and less threatened by what I can imagine but never know. Why am I uncomfortable with him sleeping with other people? I don't have an answer for that any more than he has an answer for why he's not.

Although I appreciate any advice, what I'm looking for is ideas of a compromise that will allow us both to feel more comfortable meeting each other's needs; compromise, not all his way or all my way.
 
I see the validity in both points of view. I'm just not sure that a compromise that would make both parties more comfortable is possible.
 
I'm ok with my lover having other lovers. I am not ok with my lover possibly exposing me to things because of poor hygiene/poor sex practices. That's kinda gross to me.

I guess I don't see where the problem lies because even if you do not want other lovers? You are still in charge of YOU and your well being. Your willingness to participate in things or not still belongs to YOU.

And you guys are already at compromise:

  • You don't love non-monogamy, but you agreed to participate in a non-monogamous situation with safer sex practices in place and full disclosure. You agree to put up with feeling some discomfort.
  • He wants you in his network, but he doesn't want monogamy. So he's agreed to your terms so he can get to date you non-monogamously. And he agrees to put up with some discomfort.

There's a difference between coming to compromise, and compromising your health.

What more is there to compromise on? The only thing I could think of is WHEN he tells.

You need certain behaviors in order to be willing to trust him at his Word again. You want to see that he can make a new agreement and actually follow through this time. The agreement might be something like "Use condoms with all partners and tell me the next day if you share sex with other people." (<-- I'm not sure how your agreement is actually worded. But is sounds like it is something like that. I'm guessing.)

He didn't have to agree to that. But he did. At this time, he's holding up his end of the deal. He's telling you. You are getting what you asked for. What need of yours is not being met? :confused:

If he has needs that are not being met, what are they? If they are not being met, why did he agree to something that doesn't meet them? Rather than suggest an alternative agreement that would meet both your needs and his needs? :confused:

Is it that he's willing to tell the next day for a while, but after a time he wants it to loosen up to telling you before he next shares sex with you. Just not IMMEDIATELY the next day?

Then you have to decide if that "tell the next day" thing is a soft limit for you that could change over time. Or if it is a hard limit that will never change. Then inform him which kind it is. Then he can decide if he still wants to keep this agreement or not.

If he is experiencing some discomfort because he chose to change from his old ways where he used to lie and keep secrets... Did he expect changing his old ways to come easy WITHOUT growing pains? :confused: He's having to practice self control, practice safer sex , practice up front honesty, and practice following through on his agreements. No more hiding/secrets/telling lies any more. Why is his ability to deal with his growing pains your job to manage? :confused:

If he basically wants to have many lovers, and share sex however and not practice safe sex? Well, he's free to do that with people who do not mind that.

You don't have to share yourself with him if you DO mind that. If he doesn't want to use a condom with you or he doesn't want to tell you who is in his sex network so you know who you might be linked to/exposed to if you consent to share sex with him? You could NOT consent. You are in charge of you.

I'm looking for is ideas of a compromise that will allow us both to feel more comfortable meeting each other's needs
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What are the needs that are not being met by the current agreement? I see where you say that needs are not met, but I am confused as to what the needs actually ARE. I think you have done the best you can, and the only thing that might "wiggle" is how soon he informs you.

If it is a soft limit to you, he tells you right away for now, then later you loosen up the time frame.

If it is a hard limit? It has to be immediately the next day. NO wiggle. That's the deal.

If he is no longer willing to keep this agreement? He informs you and stops. His willingness to do things belongs to him.

How can we find a rule that still allows him to feel free to do what he wants to do but feel comfortable telling me? I'd appreciate any suggestions and advice.
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I see this as his job to articulate. Other people cannot be mind readers who guess what he needs in order to become more comfortable telling you. Maybe he simply needs more time to get used to this new way of going?

Galagirl
 
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I see three issues here.

The first is your discomfort with polyamory - which appears to be something you have made peace with.

The second is your partner's disinclination for honesty. After lying to you repeatedly, he has come to the realisation that lying is not acceptable. I think this is a healthier place than where you were. If I were you, I wouldn't be making things too easy for him for a while. Someone who lies compulsively finds telling truth difficult and it is a fact of life. And it is his life learning, not your problem to solve.

I find the whole attitude toward concealment of sex to be frankly juvenile. What is the big deal? You are an adult, you are poly. What is the point going about it like you're sneaking out of a dorm room at midnight? Does he feel shame about sex overall? Regardless, it is HIS problem. You expect the truth from him and it isn't an excessive expectation in an intimate relationship - more on that in third point.

The third is your insecurity within the relationship. You are monogamous. You are accepting him being poly, which is already a source of anxiety for you. This has been added to with lies then a reluctant agreement for truth with an ongoing preference to lie. He appears to be a terrible hinge. Not telling you about other lovers serves to bypass time spent addressing your concerns over them. It essentially leaves you groping in the dark - both not knowing when he is with someone as well as an overall obligation to nurture your relationship - which would include addressing your insecurities with his behavior.

It appears that your adjustment to poly would be vastly facilitated with honesty - if you knew what to expect. He may believe his behavior spares you, but it doesn't. It is leaving you anxious and insecure about every time he is absent and not just times he is actually with someone. And discovering the truth becomes a source of trauma.

This is not a good situation. If he is agreeing to be transparent - something you NEED. Your focus should be on improving the sharing between the two of you so that you find the security you need, instead of seeing how you can let him off the hook on hard learned basic honesty.
 
Something else to consider that seems easy to dismiss....

When he has sex or is intimate, it's not just HIM. He does that with a partner who may or may not appreciate an outside person hearing about every time they do the deed.
I can imagine the poster wouldn't want the tables reversed, as most people (yes even poly people) consider sex a private act. Relationships require a level of privacy.


Personally, I'm far from shy or shameful about sex, but I would NOT enjoy a new partner in a budding romance announcing everytime we had sex be it to a friend, family member, or other partners. If her partner agreed to this, his new potential partners should know before hand.


Otoh, I agree that my metamours need to know about changes to their sexual health risk in order to be able to make decisions for themselves.
 
I understand that it is HIS body and he has a right to make his own choices. I do also understand that it is my choice to be with him as much as it is his choice to be with me. If I have to understand that non monogamy is a need for him he has to understand that, that need is very uncomfortable for me. I understand that giving full disclosure is very uncomfortable for him, but he chooses to be with me and as much as I have to face some discomfort so does he. We both know that a poly-mono relationship is difficult. The more we each practice and face things that we may be uncomfortable with now, the more we will eventually( hopefully) become more comfortable.

I push myself all the time to get passed my comfort zones with him and sex in general all the time. I go to parties with him and tell him not to change his behavior for me. I've made strong efforts to get to know his other partner, and like her very much.

This is not easy for me. I still go through the emotions of him cheating, even though I know rationally that he is not. I have to deal with those issues on a somewhat regular basis. I often go through feelings of insecurity I've never had as a result. I feel like I'm not good enough or he enjoys someone else more. In a sense it's true because I'd be happy with just him and he would not be happy with just me. I've been with other people and hoped to develop feelings but I've really only met one other person I have feelings for and he lives in another country. I simply don't enjoy sex with anyone as much as I do with him. I'd like to, but so far, very few connections have been strong and I just don't enjoy casual sex very often. He does.

Safety is not an issue. We have both agreed to be completely safe with everyone, including each other. He has slipped up once or twice. However I believe he's learned a lesson about safe sex and how it affects both of us. Although, mistakes happen( condom coming off etc) making sure I'm aware of his other partners, allows the dialogue to be open to discuss these sorts of things. Keeping it a secret does not.

As far as privacy goes; I get what you're saying. We have an agreement that he does not have to tell me about anything that occurs with an established partner. He is also dating a woman and I assume that if they spend an evening together anything could happen. However, someone new or something casual like a friend with benefits, that he only sees very occasional, will be a surprise to me. I need the information so I can process my emotions, and move past it. Sometimes I need to not see him for a day or two. Somehow him coming to me the day after he's been with someone else feels wrong. If I'm in the mood and he's not, I'll assume it's because he was with someone else and feel like something is taken away from me. If he doesn't tell me, I end up wondering and often guessing and then feel like something has been purposely hidden from me. I've known this man intimately and closer than anyone in my life, for 6 years. I can pretty much tell when he's excited about someone or has gotten laid. I don't want to invade someone's privacy but at the same time, how many of us really hook up with someone and don't expect that it's entirely possible that his friends will hear about it the next day? With his girlfriend, I feel like it would be unnecessary and invasive for him to have to tell me every time.

He does not consider himself poly per se'. He considers himself non-monogamous but feels that most likely he will only want to have 2 partners. Me as his primary partner and a female partner. However occasional casual sex is appealing to him. He feels strongly that when he connects with someone and sexual chemistry exists he should be able to pursue the experience. He says that lust, is rarely a driving factor. For him, he sees sex as something that can be a very casual experience with someone new, like shaking hands. All I can do is take him at his word. However if I'm his partner, and essentially his only partner, the needs of our relationship should trump someone else's need for privacy. I will never go to that person and make it known " hey! You slept with my boyfriend". It's far more likely for that to happen if he doesn't tell me and my mind starts searching for answers.

If I have sounded a bit defensive, I apologize. I haven't had the easiest time being accepted into the poly community. I've met some wonderful people who have been supportive and understanding. I've also met people who treat me as if there's something wrong with me for having lived so long with some old fashioned romantic ideals. I've had people say " what's the big deal it's only sex" or " go out and play yourself and you'll get it" or people who claim to be my friend, know I have a hard time with this and hook up with him anyway. I look to the poly community for help in understanding and accepting this but am often met with an attitude that I'm ignorant for feeling the way I feel. I've also met monogamous people who say " you deserve better" or " move on and find someone new". It can be disheartening and confusing. I don't think he wants to hurt me. I believe we just see sex differently. However if it's kept a secret it feel like keeping that secret is purposely hurting me.

Those of you who suggest that I should not have to let him out of his agreement to be honest and open with me have made me feel better. When he talks of how difficult it is to tell me, I feel bad and want to make things easier on him. However that is not something I need to do. I'm doing my part and he needs to do his. I will consider giving a longer time frame to divulge information. Thank you all for your help.
 
ArtemisHunt said:
I'm far from shy or shameful about sex, but I would NOT enjoy a new partner in a budding romance announcing everytime we had sex be it to a friend, family member, or other partners. If her partner agreed to this, his new potential partners should know before hand.
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We are all very different people and have different negotiations around transparency. On the whole, my view is that whatever the understanding is, it should be negotiated, agreed on and then adhered to. With all partners.
 
I think I understand what you are saying, but can you explore this feeling a little more?

the needs of our relationship should trump someone else's need for privacy.
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Why? Does he feel that way?

Are you really talking about the needs of your shared relationship or your need to feel comfortable?

Do you think this can slow or hinder their ability to transition from something casual to something more serious? Do you feel longer relationships are more valid and the people in them deserve more respect?

I'm not trying to judge, just help you explore the roots.
 
I understand the need to know if your parners' evolving relationship is "going somewhere" or not. On the other hand I see where someone could feel bothered by having to share every step.
Could you please clarify a little (sorry if I missed the answers somewhere):

Does your agreement that he has to tell you about sex and intimacy only concern new partners?
Are you living together? is he usually telling you where he is going, whether he is having a date or not?

You say you're anxious, so you need to know. What are you anxious about if you don't know?
What is it really, that you need to know. Is it specifically about sex? Do you need every progress on intimacy? Would knowing that he's having a date and getting the information that intercourse occured be enough?

I get the sense your partner is feeling and acting like an interrogated little child and that's why your communication is sour and why your asking here, thinking about how to give him more freedom while still getting the information you need. Is that so?

What is the part that makes him most uncomfortable? I'd think if it's talking about sex in general, that's his call to address, but if there's some specific information he doesn't want to provide, maybe you can talk about it some more.

Galagirl suggested relaxing the time constraint to "before next intercourse" for safety reasons, which to me seemed pragmatic. I understand that's not addressing your cause, because safety is not the biggest element.
Her suggestion also basically contains not telling you with whom he's slept. I understand that's going too far for you.

After writing all that out, I guess my advice so far is ... there's some room for improving mutual understanding. You can see that the readers here get pretty confused about your needs. Please consider it's not because your needs are completely foreign (I'm rather monogamish), but because there's some vagueness in how you describe them - and that if we are confused, your partner must be confused as well. So it could help a little to get more to the bottom of them and consequently articulate them more clearly. (for example "I want to feel valued and I fear that I'm just one of many" is much more specific than "I'm insecure when you have to much sex")

This advice likewise applies to your partner as well. We don't really know (and maybe you don't really know) what is that makes him uncomfortable with this particular agreement (except that he doesn't like rules in general due to his upbringing and has been used to lie) and what would help him feel less so.

But here you are the one we can talk to, not your partner. So, what is your need to know centered about more specifically?
 
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Your agreement doesn't sound that different from the agreement that Blue and I had. Obviously, it's all subjective, but in my opinion, your agreement seems reasonable to me (assuming you're not sharing explicit details other than maybe saying it's PIV, PIA (and maybe who the receiver was), or oral? Though, maybe it's just best if you assume that anything/everything is on the table to preserve privacy and reduce controlling behaviors.)

Our agreement was: safer sex with others unless/until explicitly agreed upon by both of us (because we were fluid bonded); always disclose sex with new partners, prior to having sex with each other. Sex among existing partners or fwbs was assumed and therefore, not disclosed. For the sake of transparency, we considered 'new partners' to be anyone with whom we didn't have an ongoing sexual relationship. For example, if I'd had a previous, casual relationship with someone but we'd stopped seeing each other, then if I resumed having sex with said person, I would disclose it to Blue before he & I had sex again. OTOH, if Blue had a casual partner that he saw infrequently, I would continue to assume they may be sexual until he told me otherwise (even if months passed between dates.)

As for feeling uncomfortable, I do think exploring the whys behind your feelings can be very beneficial, both for the insight it provides you about yourself, and because it may help ease some of your discomfort.
 
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Agreement I now have with Spexy is based on him having communication difficulties and is absolutely explicit that if he is interested in someone - unless it happens so fast that it is zero to hero in the same meeting, he is to give me a heads up that potential relationship juggling turmoil up ahead.

He lied to me last time. Lies are an absolute deal breaker. He's had his last warning and I WILL kick him out if he lies about relationships again (probably not, but it is a good threat). If he doesn't feel comfortable sharing, he can simply say "I've met someone" and refuse to give further details till he feels comfortable. This is not so expected. He has problems bringing something up, but usually there is nothing he can't talk about with me once started.

What if his partner doesn't want me to know? Then he can't date that partner.

It may sound excessive, but Spexy has alexithymia - he is not able to articulate emotions. He also has severe issues with situations of potential disapproval and will definitely lie to get out of them. These are genuine issues and not malice. But it can be very difficult to live with. For example, he adores me to bits, but was for the first (and only) time able to tell me "I couldn't keep my hands off you" when describing how I looked at the engagement last week. Put the whole engagement on one side, and this sentence on the other, and I'll take it and frame it and put it on the wall. That is how difficult it is for him and rare. We discovered at pretty heavy emotional cost that a new partner will not know all this, and letting him form a bubble without an all round understanding of ground reality is only heartbreak for everyone - him included.

So it is like this. Is it fair? To me, yes. To him, more than fair, he is grateful and finds it supportive because he does not want to hurt potential partners or me.

On the other hand, what are the rules for me? Nothing. Zero. Nada. He knows me to be upfront always. He insists all he needs to know is that I love him. He is confident that I am always sensitive to how things impact him - usually better than he is himself (alexithymia). This is a terrifying trust to have. I have insisted that he please give it more thought. He says he has and this is really it for him.

I think what is fair and rights and privacy and all that will be very circumstantial for each person, depending on the concerns of their partner and what they need to feel secure. If the OP thinks that she needs to know about her partner's relationships to feel secure, it is her requirement to state and her partner has agreed to it, so I don't know where the problem is with her wanting to know for whatever her reasons are.

Though I can't pretend that I don't have a prejudice that partners needing more information are usually starved for attention and security rather than information (this includes me in the above example - I'm not above what I'm describing). It is a way of feeling a bit more in control of their own risks. "If I know, it won't hit me out of the blue" "If I know, it won't seem like he prefers a complete stranger over me" "If I know, I won't feel like he's shutting me out of intimate areas of his life." The reality usually is more like "He will hurt me out of the blue" "He doesn't seem to be into me that much" "he shuts me out" The "If I know" is a disaster management tool.
 
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If the OP thinks that she needs to know about her partner's relationships to feel secure, it is her requirement to state and her partner has agreed to it, so I don't know where the problem is with her wanting to know for whatever her reasons are.
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I can explain why I think her reasons matter.

Because this request doesn't just affect her, or him and her, it affects other people.

I think when addressing insecurity and working on your relationship with a person, you should keep the solutions to yourself and that relationship as much as possible. It's not exactly fair to expect others who aren't involved to pay the price for what's going on between them. Further, when you putting the solution outside your dynamic or avoiding the cause of the insecurity, you aren't really fixing it.

The other concerning point is the natural tendency to rank one relationship over the other, which is great when you are on top, but also means you will constantly have to fear no longer being on top. Being priority can become the focus instead of your actual needs for time and attention. If your love plate is full and you are satisfied, why does it matter if another person on the table has more?

So, of she delves a little deeper into the "why" of this insecurity and the feelings of who is important and what that means to her, she may be able to find a way to feel secure that doesn't affect anyone else. She may find she has some thoughts and fears that are more specific, even if they sound unflattering to say out loud.

Sure, it might sound dickish to say, yeah, I guess I think ppl who do casual sex don't deserve the same considerations, or, yeah, if I know what's going on I feel like I have more control over how it develops, or, I fear if I don't keep an eye on him he will cheat. (No idea if any of these are true)

But she can't address these thoughts and decide what to do about them if she isn't willing to dig deep, honestly, and see if they are there.

The WHY matters a TON
 
Thank you for more info.

I'm sorry to hear you have had poly people telling you “get over it” like you are supposed to just not care about sex or value sex as you do. Not everyone sees sex the same way, but it isn't like you seeing sex as you do is “wrong.”

As for the poly friends who claim to understand you have a hard time with this and then ADD to your struggle by sleeping with him... sheesh! Not friendly at all.

I'm also sorry to hear you have had mono people basically telling you “move on and find someone new” when at this point in time, you wish to stay.

However if I'm his partner, and essentially his only partner, the needs of our relationship should trump someone else's need for privacy.
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Everyone needs a level of privacy.

I would probably frame that as “He could keep agreements in the order made to people.”

So if someone wants to hook up with him, it is HIS responsibility to say “Sure, I want to hook up. And we can talk about whatever agreements you want on that.

First I have to make you aware that I already have agreements to keep with my other partner that could affect you. I agree to tell them when new people enter my sex network. I usually tell the next day after sex. If this bothers, you... we should probably not hook up.”

That respects both the privacy of the potential, because he's making them aware. And he's honoring his agreements with you. If they are ok with it, THEN they can talk about what agreements they need on their end.

To me it's all part of “negotiations.” Where to go, what protection to use, expectations, etc.

If he chooses to make some new agreements with the potential? Well, he's been honoring agreements in the order they were made.

Those of you who suggest that I should not have to let him out of his agreement to be honest and open with me have made me feel better. When he talks of how difficult it is to tell me, I feel bad and want to make things easier on him. However that is not something I need to do. I'm doing my part and he needs to do his.
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I'm glad you feel a bit better about it.

Letting him off the hook is not something you need to do. He chose to put himself on the hook. He chose to accept this new responsibility -- the upkeep of this agreement. That is part of him exercising his autonomy too -- he picks the agreements he wants to uphold.

You accept a certain level of discomfort to make this work. He accepts a certain level of discomfort to make this work.

You could say “I see that it's hard for you” and acknowledge it. But you don't need to be relieving him of his self-chosen responsibilities. He chose to enter this agreement, he presumably can hold it up.

He can do what he wants and sleep with who he wants. Nothing about his autonomy has changed. He's still in charge of himself and his choices.

You aren't asking for anything unreasonable. To protect your own sex health, and exercise YOUR autonomy? You need to know if his sex network now has more people in it. Then you can choose to continue to be in his network or not from a place of full information.

I push myself all the time to get passed my comfort zones with him and sex in general all the time. I go to parties with him and tell him not to change his behavior for me.
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Do you have to push yourself ALL the time? Could you ask him sometimes to consider modifying his behavior? So that a party here and there could be a "non-stress" one for you?

Getting comfortable in this new attempt to be together isn't like a sprint to hurry up and get it over with. It's going to take time. No need to ADD to the stress by pushing yourself all the time or avoiding asking for modifications sometimes.

If you ask "I need a non-stress event. At this party, could you be willing to do _____ to help me feel less stressed?" he is free to answer. He could say "No" or he could say "Yes."

If he's willing to change behaviors, great. Attend with him, and it should be a non-stress event.

If he's not willing, and you need a break from whatever stress? He can attend that party on his own. Stay home or go out with other people and create the non-stress event you need.

Do the stress management things you need to be doing so you can go the distance on this. It takes the time it takes.

Galagirl
 
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I think the first responsibility in a relationship is to be mentally okay ourselves or we can't be any use to anyone. It isn't about what is right and who is wrong, but two people finding a compromise they can live with. There are couples who will check and share everything, there are DADT. There is no unilateral right to acceptance for your style whether your partner can cope with it or not.

Her partner is an adult, not an infant. He is the hinge, not her. If her request has an impact on other relationships, it is his responsibility to negotiate in a manner that he can conduct both. How in the world is she to consider the impact of her request on people he isn't even willing to tell her about? And why? Is the impact of the concealment on her bothering those people? And if she must assume a default, why should it not be something she knows as fact - her own need on the matter - instead of every fictional objection other people she doesn't even apparently have a right to know could potentially have?

She is already, after he has agreed, looking for ways to make it easier for him and accommodate his preference as far as she can. That says they have a functional compromise already. She is looking to make it further easier on him. Why is her need for transparency somehow inferior to the need for privacy of others? The need for privacy these alleged others allegedly have also has an impact outside their relationship - causing anxiety in her relationship. There is no rule entitling them to secrecy as a default of polyamory, just like she is not entitled to transparency - she has negotiated it. This has started sounding like the classic advice to Indian daughter-in-laws in a patriarchial family. "do as he wants, adjust, don't be demanding".

There is no contempt for casual sex going on. Expecting an adult to act on his agreement in a relationship is not special mistreatment of him over casual sex. Surely if there are issues with the rights of others in agreeing to her requirement, it is his responsibility to explain that to her and suggest a compromise or refuse to share and then she can decide whether she accepts it or not?

I agree that exploring the insecurity she feels will likely empower her to make better choices, but there is no rule that says she has to do it or when.
 
I think you are missing the point.

It's not about their needs being more important, or who is most comfortable, it's about looking at and addressing the root of the fear as close to the source as possible and trying to minimize the impact on others who are not involved.

Removing the alarm doesn't put out the fire. Addressing the WHY behind the request/rule is most important. I'm suggesting there's a need or fear she has, and if she doesn't pinpoint it, she can't be sure this rule will fix it. The rule is her way of trying to address a need, not a need itself.

Like I said, I don't know what her fear is, those were examples of things that people think, but are discouraged from admitting and discussing. She needs to feel free to look at those things and have them taken seriously without fear of being judged or dismissed. She may find at the end of it that her request really is her preferred option.

And yes, I wholeheartedly agree that it's his responsibility to tell new partners, not hers, and that he agreed to it so should follow it until they make a new agreement.

Personally, if it were my relationship? I'd probably assume it was a trust issue. And I wouldn't want to push forward with poly, involving other people in my mess, until my relationship was at its strongest and the trust was healed.

I would tell him this, and ask that he.hold off adding any new partners or outside sex for a set amount of time (say 3-6 months) while we worked on getting to a stronger place and rediscuss opening up after that time. If we weren't strong enough then, I'd seriously consider breaking up.


Edit to add: apologies to nycsinger for talking about you instead of to you. That was rude and I didn't mean to hijack your thread to defend a relationship strategy. If you ever want to explore your darker thoughts and fears that you have a hard time saying because they sound silly, unreasonable, or wrong, I'm willing to listen and ask questions without judging you for them.
 
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nycsinger2000 said:
I push myself all the time to get passed my comfort zones with him and sex in general all the time....This is not easy for me. I still go through the emotions of him cheating, even though I know rationally that he is not. I have to deal with those issues on a somewhat regular basis. I often go through feelings of insecurity I've never had as a result. I feel like I'm not good enough or he enjoys someone else more. In a sense it's true because I'd be happy with just him and he would not be happy with just me. ......However if I'm his partner, and essentially his only partner, the needs of our relationship should trump someone else's need for privacy....I've also met people who treat me as if there's something wrong with me for having lived so long with some old fashioned romantic ideals. I've had people say " what's the big deal it's only sex" or " go out and play yourself and you'll get it" or people who claim to be my friend, know I have a hard time with this and hook up with him anyway. I look to the poly community for help in understanding and accepting this but am often met with an attitude that I'm ignorant for feeling the way I feel.
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Just want to state here CLEARLY. Mono or poly, it is perfectly all right, indeed your right to be absolutely yourself in the relationship. To state what you are willing to compromise with, where you draw the line. It is perfectly fine to be unsure, insecure, needing reassurance, feeling betrayed by those who you expected support from.... you are perfectly you and that is all you need to be.

Yes, it is ideal to be perfectly secure emotionally, handle whatever poly throws our way (or for that matter life at large), to never be lost or need someone to tell us the truth just so we have a lifeline of reassurance in the anxiety. In an ideal world, we'd all be these perfectly sorted creatures who never flounder.

Reality is messier and it is life. You cannot be someone you are not and those who make you feel like you should are acting in an immature manner. It is absolutely fine to ask a trusted partner to meet your needs - whether they are fashionable or not is irrelevant. You need that - if you can't ask your partner for support in finding security in a relationship, whom can you ask? The neighbours? The government?

Please stop apologizing for being yourself. For having needs from an intimate partner. As one half of the relationship, you have every right to negotiate for your needs. Your partner clearly understands this. Fuck the world.

I don't know what sort of friends you have, but there are plenty of poly people right here on this forum who need various levels of disclosure from their partners. DADT (Don't Ask, Don't Tell) - what your partner prefers is actually more rare a preference seen here than disclosure and ensuring existing partner's comfort. You see poly people here who are upset and traumatized by cheating/lies - real or perceived. Who have problems sharing time efficiently. Who need their partner to actively pay attention to their needs and reassure them when engaging with new partners. Read the forums. You know what I say is true.

Poly doesn't give anyone some kind of superior status. It just is. And what you are going through is a perfectly human response that people completely identifying as poly will also go through if their needs are not met in some ways. Don't let anyone diminish you and con you that your problems are because you are mono or whatever. Your problems are there because they are there. Not because you did something to deserve them. There are various reasons behind them and you are working on those reasons. Having relationship problems is NOT a mono speciality. Even jealousy/anxiety problems.

Alistarose is there on the other thread - completely averse to monogamy, but biting her nails because her husband is on a second date with someone right now. He isn't even going to be late getting home. She is poly. Read her threads some day to see how much she has struggled and worked to overcome anxiety over him being with someone else. Others don't have any problem with jealousy, but flounder somewhere else. It is part of being human.

You are perfectly you.

Sorry for rant. I've been thinking how to respond to your post and finally just said what was on my mind.
 
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