Condoms and such

That being said, I personally believe that your autonomy and desire to get pregnant should take precedence. That's a BIG relevant thing here, the fact that YOU want to get pregnant. And you didn't even say he's not ok with you being pregnant, but specifically he's not ok with you being pregnant by somebody else. That's a lot of power to give somebody else over decisions about your body and your future.

Shouldn't each of their autonomy take precedence? Focusing only on the pregnancy ignores the husbands autonomy to raise a child of his own offspring...

If the husband is worried about being legally responsible for another man's child perhaps the responsibility of detangling the relationship by dissolving the marriage contract (depending on local paternity laws) falls on him. I think it would be unfair for the OP to be in opposition of this decision given the circumstances. OP have you two considered legal divorce in leu of having your husband demand who's offspring you carry?

It could potentially allow you to have sex however you want to with BF and alleviate fears that your husband may have about being on the hook (legally speaking) for a child that is fathered by the boyfriend.

I find it sad that marriage law is so limiting in most of the world...
 
Shouldn't each of their autonomy take precedence? Focusing only on the pregnancy ignores the husbands autonomy to raise a child of his own offspring...

If the husband is worried about being legally responsible for another man's child perhaps the responsibility of detangling the relationship by dissolving the marriage contract (depending on local paternity laws) falls on him. I think it would be unfair for the OP to be in opposition of this decision given the circumstances. OP have you two considered legal divorce in leu of having your husband demand who's offspring you carry?

It could potentially allow you to have sex however you want to with BF and alleviate fears that your husband may have about being on the hook (legally speaking) for a child that is fathered by the boyfriend.

I find it sad that marriage law is so limiting in most of the world...
Well yes of course, hence the stuff about it needing be addressed that they apparently have conflicting wants on this. Given that her husband isn't actually opposed her to having another child, just having a child that isn't his, I'm going to guess that he's not so worried about "being on the hook" for childcare expenses and the legalities and drain of having a child, but moreso worried about her potentially wanting to have a child by somebody that isn't him... and that mentality still isn't addressed by divorce because the issue of her having a child outside of him remains. Sounds like he just wants to be the only one giving her babies, which is his right-- as is not wanting to raise another mans child for no other reason than it's not of his DNA, but I definitely think OP should really be focusing on the fact that she would like to be pregnant by her partner and her husband does not want her to be. That is a huge conflict of interest IMO, and that is the actual heart of the issue, not whether or not he can or should be able to dictate when her partner pulls out (.. and to be honest, that level of involvement makes my skin crawl just typing it lol). That, on top of the fact that even with OP & her partners best attempts at not creating a pregnancy, it's going to be a possibility as long as they are having sex, period. If her husband cannot live with that reality he should certainly be exercising his autonomy to remove himself from that situation.
 
Edit to add that neither me nor my partner like using condoms. We were originally only using them because my husband asked us to. Just feels like him asking my partner to pull out is just too much


Diaphragm. Cervical cap. IUD. Norplant. Depo-Provera. Do they still make the spermicidal sponge? Throw in a little PIV abstinence during ovulation time, and you got yourself some pretty effective birth control up in there. I mean, I learned about all this before Google was even *invented*.
 
Oh, and there's the new spermicide gel they just came out with - Phrexxi or something like that - I'm constantly getting ads for it.
 
What seems to be getting lost in this discussion of autonomy over ones body vs over reach by a spouse is tha fact they are NOT some battle tested poly pros with considerable mileage under their belts just caught up in a new challenge. BUT RATHER just recently decided to open after much discussion.

I invite people to reread this thread and seriously think about the message you’re sending people contemplating their own transition. I would be very interesting to hear the backstory and the agreements hammered out prior to opening….if the op’s husband was enthusiastic or reluctant and struggling. FROM my read we don’t know if they have zero kids and were married last week or 4 kids and married 15 yrs ago. I think all that stuff matters On both sides of this. DID the goal post just move huge on a struggling spouse ?? Like I’d at least want our first kid to be mine.

I apologize if this post wasn’t “ helpful “ to common goal of not having to pull out prior to climax I was just thinking beyond the Bf‘s ejaculation To the bigger picture.
 
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This has been a really interesting thread even with the contincious parts (which seem to have been misunderstandings from the way it reads now). Here is what I picked up...

Shykitten had an accidental pregnancy through no fault of anyone. She feels her husband is overstepping their negotiation and moving into controlling/my way of the high way/hard rule territory.

Most people seem to fall into 1 of 3 camps
  1. Personal autonomy - everyone body is there own to control here and each person needs their own space to deal with both the accidental pregnancy and the future negotiations
  2. Legal/ Financial rights/requirement - because mariage has laws and rights associated with it, there is some say allowed by the husband in particular. He has the right to agree, the right to try to negotiate some level of protection for himself and their legal relationship, or leave/divorce.
  3. Family Planning - The long tail of bring a life in the world with multiple partners and the life cost of a new child on everyone.
Shykitten's original post had no clear tone as these are words on the page so we are all inferring based on context the best we can.

I fall the most in camp 3 and think your words kind of lend to that wanting to have a kid. If that is true, camp 3 cannot be reached without resolving open issues between you, your husband, and your boyfriend @shykitten around 1 and 2. Those are hard conversations to have. You feel hurt to have him only think of paternity as "his preference". This is a preference you don't agree with. You both have personal autonomy here on rights to do with your body and life but they are at a friction point.

And you do need consider both you have legal/financial requirements with a child to bare. If you both feel you are ready for this, this is an easier part of the conversation without taking part 1 into affect.

Take the time to really think about what you want. Sit with it. Ask him and your boyfriend to do the same. Then schedule a time later to sit down, discuss, walk away, sit with it, and discuss again until some clear decisions for yourself and all partners involved have a clear take on what being a family/having a kid together might mean. Maybe even look into a poly friendly family planning counselor if that is an option in your area.

Good luck as this is a tough situation.
 
I am curious about exactly how long "a little while ago" is.
You know I kind of skipped over this part too.

I'm in the camp of "actively trying to conceive/parenting infants or toddlers" not being the best time to open up for the first time unless you are REALLY solid and have discussed literally every possible scenario you (and the internet) can come up with.
 
That being said, I personally believe that your autonomy and desire to get pregnant should take precedence.

If that is the case, she needs to divorce him. Like, yesterday.

Yes, you have bodily autonomy, but if you enter into a relationship with someone there are expectations whether people find that fact convenient or not.
 
If the husband is worried about being legally responsible for another man's child perhaps the responsibility of de-tangling the relationship by dissolving the marriage contract (depending on local paternity laws) falls on him. I think it would be unfair for the OP to be in opposition of this decision given the circumstances. OP have you two considered legal divorce in leu of having your husband demand who's offspring you carry?


Please know that I am not taking the piss out of you on this, you have my full support and agreement with this statement. :)

I am going to go here and say and/or the boyfriend decides to run for the exit sign when she actually does get pregnant. Because let's not pretend like that has never happened. Because it does. At least according to the Brookings Institute.


Most people seem to fall into 1 of 3 camps
  1. Personal autonomy - everyone body is there own to control here and each person needs their own space to deal with both the accidental pregnancy and the future negotiations
  2. Legal/ Financial rights/requirement - because mariage has laws and rights associated with it, there is some say allowed by the husband in particular. He has the right to agree, the right to try to negotiate some level of protection for himself and their legal relationship, or leave/divorce.
  3. Family Planning - The long tail of bring a life in the world with multiple partners and the life cost of a new child on everyone.


Personally, I am in Camps Two and Four.

4. Consent of everyone involved.

Now, then. I am an admitted newbie to all of this, despite my 3 years of researching this way of living. I will not dispute that. And if nothing else, this is the internet and someone will be MORE than happy to come along and correct me. 😂


However. imo, the taking away of the consent of the husband is unilaterally making life changing decisions that directly affect him. And as I stated above, yes, you have bodily autonomy, but if you enter into a relationship with someone there are expectations, whether you find that convenient or not.
 
Correction he needs to divorce her like yesterday.


Either or. But imo, it needs to happen if she prizes her bodily autonomy over the consent of everyone involved.
 
Campers 1 through 3 and now with the 4th ALL COME UNDER THE umbrella of discussions and agreements made In the opening up process.

clearly this was a topic and a concern because he specifically asked they use condoms. THEY Specifically DISLIKE the condom request but agree. AN incident happens and she becomes pregnant in a newly formed poly dynamic she miscarries and now freaked out hubby is trying to put some level assurance that this doesn’t happen again per the original markers he had when agreeing to opening the relationship.

Think of this another way. How many people have come here in the last 6 month or a yr interested in moving there relationship from being mono to poly. I can think of a dozen or more. Take any one of those and plug this my body I’ll do what I want with it mentality and poly is dead in the starting gate. It’s a FUCKING NONSTARTER. And not only is it a nonstarter but it may have just killed the marriage. Now pull the same shit 3-4 months down the road with NRE pulsing and say OMG a pulling out before you ejaculate into a rubber is too controlling might be winning the battle but losing the war. AND TO THE GUYS going through this you might want to spent some more time going over this in you own homes. You might want to link this thread to your spouse to see if she has this same mindset .
 
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4. Consent of everyone involved.
In my #3 family planning I assumed everyone would sit down and consent to an agreement together but as anyone knows what happens when you assume....🤣


now freaked out hubby is trying to put some level assurance that this doesn’t happen again
This is a point I kind of glossed over but is important for @shykitten to think about. It does happen from time to time when someone has agreements, something happens to challenge the agreement in place, and all partners involve have strong emotional reactions. These are the trying times of relationships no matter the dynamic. The assumption that that pandora box talked about vs experiencing can provide different results.

OMG a pulling out before you ejaculate into a rubber is too controlling
I have honestly never understood why withdrawal is a bad request or contraception in particular. While it is a way to do family planning (https://www.plannedparenthood.org/l...ow-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out) it is only about 75% effective compared to 99% with condoms but it and condoms is very effective. What the issue is does the request overstep her and her other partners autonomous relationship? Power dynamics in relationships are tough and sex even tougher to discuss then most in a lot of societies. This is really about who has power over X.

Shy wants the power over her own sexuality, relationships and doesn't care who she has kids with. Shy's husband wants the power over who in the relationship has children with shy but does not seem to care about the sexual act or relationship, and based on the OP the boyfriend is along. for the ride. It's kind of a one father policy or a type of hierarchy attempting to be established where certain partners get certain privileges based on their title.

This could also just be a hard limit for Shy's current relationship. This is a soft limit for her but for him to feel safe, this is hard limit.

If the was jealousy, sleeping over at someone's house, or something else, think the conversation is tough but not as life changing as a new kid. That just heightens the stress of an already stressful situation.
 
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Speaking as an
What seems to be getting lost in this discussion of autonomy over ones body vs over reach by a spouse is tha fact they are NOT some battle tested poly pros with considerable mileage under their belts just caught up in a new challenge. BUT RATHER just recently decided to open after much discussion.

I invite people to reread this thread and seriously think about the message you’re sending people contemplating their own transition. I would be very interesting to hear the backstory and the agreements hammered out prior to opening….if the op’s husband was enthusiastic or reluctant and struggling. FROM my read we don’t know if they have zero kids and were married last week or 4 kids and married 15 yrs ago. I think all that stuff matters On both sides of this. DID the goal post just move huge on a struggling spouse ?? Like I’d at least want our first kid to be mine.

I apologize if this post wasn’t “ helpful “ to common goal of not having to pull out prior to climax I was just thinking beyond the Bf‘s ejaculation To the bigger picture.

I find this thread interesting and a little concerning as someone in the same boat (partner starting exploring, me being anxious but trying to accommodate her needs after much discussion and a few mistakes along the way). I am more concerned about safe sex though tbh, if my partner started wanting to have unprotected sex with anyone other than me, particularly if they are also poly and potentially or actually having sex with others, I would consider that a fundamental lack of care for our health as a couple, regardless of thoughts about risk of pregnancy (which surely must be considered rationally and responsibly by all parties this could affect for a lifetime, not based on 'we hate using condoms'). Needless to say we have agreed that condoms are a must which is reassuring for me and I guess the partner in this case maybe also needs that too? (it's not been mentioned but if I were in his shoes I would be worried about that as well as pregnancy).
 
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In my #3 family planning I assumed everyone would sit down and consent to an agreement together but as anyone knows what happens when you assume....


Yep! Because here we all are. :)
 
Speaking as an


I find this thread interesting and a little concerning as someone in the same boat (partner starting exploring, me being anxious but trying to accommodate her needs after much discussion and a few mistakes along the way).
I’d actually say a little alarming for someone trying to navigate a transition. I guess your requests and agreements someday soon could be looked upon as controlling.


I am more concerned about safe sex though tbh, if my partner started wanting to have unprotected sex with anyone other than me, particularly if they are also poly and potentially or actually having sex with others, I would consider that a fundamental lack of care for our health as a couple, regardless of thoughts about risk of pregnancy (which surely must be considered rationally and responsibly by all parties this could affect for a lifetime, not based on 'we hate using condoms').
SO …IF going in you heard my body my choice would that have been a nonstarter ?

AND …IF your wife were to contract an std from a broken condom during NRE fueled lust fest similar to the situation outlined here would it to too controlling to insist on greater protection and secondary measures whatever those might be ? I used that because you have a greater concern with that.

Needless to say we have agreed that condoms are a must which is reassuring for me and I guess the partner in this case maybe also needs that too? (it's not been mentioned but if I were in his shoes I would be worried about that as well as pregnancy).

How reassuring would the agreement be if your wife and he lover said we dislike / hate the use of condoms but fine we will do it to keep this poly train on the tracks and then shortly after she becomes pregnant from a broken condom. Would you sleep better at night after that.
 
I find it sad that marriage law is so limiting in most of the world...
Totally agreed. This situation is actually a perfect reminder of why I will never get married. I won't get on my full soapbox here but I will say the limits it imposes is very intentional and has had disastrous implications for people's autonomy, the brunt of which women have had to bear.

Regardless, she is asking whether or not its controlling for a person to make requests about the timing of when another person pulls his p*nis (not sure what we are allowed to say here, lol) out of her but that's merely a symptom of the bigger issue IMO. The actual issue is her husband does not want a situation that OP does want.

If she values holding on to her marriage more than her right to be pregnant when she wants & by who she wants, then she will have to (if she's going to honor his request) agree to his demand for her to only make babies with him and make more of an effort to mitigate that inherent risk of having sex, which will involve letting him have more control over the decisions made for her body-- whether its continuing to use condoms despite her desire not to, asking her partner to pull out at a certain time for the benefit of her husband, or whatever other birth control method her husband would be comfortable with for her body.
 
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This is a point I kind of glossed over but is important for @shykitten to think about. It does happen from time to time when someone has agreements, something happens to challenge the agreement in place, and all partners involve have strong emotional reactions. These are the trying times of relationships no matter the dynamic.
Yes I agree and the reactions in this case either lack empathy or they‘re just polar opposite in terms of an end game.

I have honestly never understood why withdrawal is a bad request or contraception in particular. While it is a way to do family planning (https://www.plannedparenthood.org/l...ow-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out) it is only about 75% effective compared to 99% with condoms but it and condoms is very effective.
I think that’s why he wanted them to do both. To try to get that number in a decimal. 99.87843 ( made that up by the way )

What the issue is does the request overstep her and her other partners autonomous relationship?
exactly. I guess my question would be is this really a concern of hers or more of a concern of the Bf. Do women feel a loss pleasure or satisfaction from not getting that final trust and grunt. The condom removes the other senstations so really we might be talking about the other partners satisfaction and autonomy.


Power dynamics in relationships are tough and sex even tougher to discuss then most in a lot of societies. This is really about who has power over X.
really ?? I see this a newcomer with some agreements or agreed upon expectation having dodged a bullet.


Shy wants the power over her own sexuality, relationships and doesn't care who she has kids with. Shy's husband wants the power over who in the relationship has children with shy but does not seem to care about the sexual act or relationship, and based on the OP the boyfriend is along. for the ride. It's kind of a one father policy or a type of hierarchy attempting to be established where certain partners get certain privileges based on their title.
YES …that seems to be the case today. However was that the case during the many discussions prior to opening up.
 
Needless to say we have agreed that condoms are a must which is reassuring for me

For people who have a high concern for STD and pregnancy, I would think everyone wearing condoms would be a good start. You were including your primary couple in this? Or is it just everyone else needs to wear condoms?
 
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