Confused, but happy - long read ahead!

W

wildchild

New member
Well HI there. I don't where to start (or end) exactly but I have this tremendous urge to write something about what I recently discovered & acknowleged about myself. I'm a married guy, 35-ish years of age, living somewhere in Europe (excuse me for keeping it vague) who has been together with his wife for almost 15 years (the lesser part of those 15 years as a married couple). Happily, I might add, although we did have our struggles as any married couple. We also have 1 child which is a blessing in our life.

A few years ago we decided we would experiment with other people in our bedroom. We entered the swingers lifestyle, so to say. We had a rough start (lots of miscommunication, lots of rookie mistakes, but we got through everything stronger and wiser) but enjoyed it thoroughly after that. We're not that active but enjoy a little party every now and then when time allows. From the beginning, I had a very, very strong connection with one of my (female, I am bi-curious/experimental but primarily attracted to women) lovers up to a point that we still see each other (all with my wife's consent), we spend a day together every now and then, she is welcome in our house, spends time with our kid (who is 10-) and we even gotten into some threesomes (wine will do that) which we all enjoyed. My wife has had some jealousy issues in this setup but nothing we couldn't deal with by talking about it or making up some rules. All good, no?

Well, yeah. Except that it didn't feel like 'swinging' anymore for me at a certain point. As I said, we really had a tremendous connection and we also share some common interests and views on life and stuff like that. I struggled. Coming from a swinging point-of-view the agreement was we would keep romantic feelings out of it but of course, we were long past that point (without acknowledging it). Was I really (falling) in love with someone else besides my wife, who I dearly love and want to spend my life with? And if so, what does that mean? Do I love 2 women? Can I love 2 women? As I said, I really struggled. My wife got sick (and better, nothing major) and after that I emotionally shutdown for some reason. I couldn't figure out what I felt and why I felt it. For a very, very long time (the better part of a year I guess) I wasn't a really pleasant person to live with I'm afraid. Emotionally and sexually my wife and I just sorta disconnected - even though I still loved her of course. I did not and do not want to leave her, that I knew for sure. But... my lover, I did not want to lose her and I wanted our relation to grow beyond f*cking each other's brains out a few days a year (so to speak, excuse my French).

Until it clicked. That was somewhere around november/december last year. I suddenly recollected a word I read on one of the swinger websites we visited: polyamory. BAM! Everything fell into place. Not just my struggle with my 2 lovers. Also stuff from way back. I was always the guy who had more female friends than male friends (and who could take them out to dinner, have great conversations with them, but didn't really needed a physical relationship with them), why I didn't want a wedding ring (I don't believe in one person owning another), every little view on personal freedom, liberty, equality (I always felt very strong connected to the struggles of the gay community but didn't know why really), everything. So after thinking, reading, struggling, I decided to come out - to my wife. I don't believe in secrecy, I don't want any secrets standing between us, I want to express my feelings and be honest. At first she tought it was the 'I am leaving you' talk, even though I assured her from the beginning that it wasn't. So we talked. And talked. And cried. But, above all, reconnected. Which was/is great. She has a hard time grasping the meaning of it all, feels threatened to a certain extent (fear I will be replacing her, that she will lose me) but on the other side wasn't so suprised because of course, she isn't blind or stupid. And of course, we weren't exactly monogamous before. But, my wife made it clear that up until now, she hasn't had any romantic feelings for anybody but me (she really enjoys our sexual adventures but it really is just that for her). She doesn't rule anything out in life, but for now, it's very hard for her to see polyamory for what it is.

The day after, I told my girlfriend (as I now dare call her, yay) who was less suprised by what I said, but more suprised by that I said it all and was so honest about it. Again, talking, talking, emo-stuff all round, etc. In the end we spend the night watching a movie with the 3 of us laying on the couch, nothing sexual but just enjoying each other's company (me in the middle of course, lucky me). That moment was really defining for me. Me, being with 2 women I really really love, each because of who they are and what they mean to me: perfect in their own way.

Where are we now? I don't know really. My wife said she needs some time to think it all through which I am of course giving her. We talk a lot, every night, we really have reconnected through that and after talking, lots of love making of course! I gave her some books I have been reading on this subject, we watched the "real life" soap on the subject from Showtime and I try to answer her questions as good as I can - even though I am not much of a talker, I really really try. The lingo is new for me ('are we in a "v" now', 'what about that primary/secondary stuff', etc) and I am learning something new about myself everyday but man, do I enjoy it. We talked about me coming out to my parents, it just doesn't feel right hiding things from them, or telling lies when my girlfriend is around (right now she is, to them, "a close friend of my wife's") but I don't know if we're there yet. First I want the dust to settle so when they ask me 'how does the wife feel about all this' I at least can give them a honest answer. We'll see. With my girlfriend I agreed that we will be taking it slow this month to come to give my wife some time to catch-up. Which is hard, but feels like the right thing. One of the first things I heard or read about this all is, that you run as fast as the slowest person can - which feels right for this situation.

I really feel like I am at the beginning of something very exciting, very new and I look forward to taking on this journey together. I understand and accept it will not be easy, and that there will be struggles, but I am confident we will get through them.

I have a few million questions about myself, all this and how I should deal with it and I will probably be bugging you all to death with it the next couple of months/years/etc. Please be patient with me :D
 
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I'm excited for you and interested in hearing more as your story continues, wildchild. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Glad you posted.
 
Hello and welcome!

You have a nice story there, and are not the first person to come to this forum with a swinger background. Changing from swinging to poly can be challenging, but sounds like you are doing just great!

This forum is a wonderful source of information. You will also find lots of links to other poly sites on here. Take your time reading everything that catches your interest - or search for info about some specific topics. Feel free to post your questions and comments, too.

Nice to have you here and hope you enjoy your stay!
 
Greetings wildchild,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I am glad that you have discovered polyamory; it seems like it is a good fit for you. Explore this site thoroughly, and there is a book you may want to read: "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory," by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert.

Please feel free to post your questions whenever they come up. I always follow the intro board so if you want to ping me, just post on this thread.

I'm glad you could join us.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. Wow that's refreshing :) (newb here too)

The potential trouble I imagine is how your wife and your gf will relate to each other. You said you had to lie to others that your girlfriend was a close friend of your wife. Is that also true in and of itself?
 
First of all, thanks for the kind words and greetings. "Talking" about "it" (with other people than those romantically involved of course) feels like a big and important step.

Kevin (kdt26417), I already started in More Than Two. It's a tough read sometimes, but very insightful. Helps me label my feelings and actions to a certain extent. I'm thinking about getting the hardcover as well because I sometimes feel the need to flip through it and an e-book just doesn't do that for me.

Leander, I saw you opened an introduction topic as well. Looks interesting but I only just glanced through it but will definitely be reading it later on (and replying of course). Your question is the million dollar question at the moment as far as I'm concerned, spot on! My wife and girlfriend get along okay, but have their difficulties dealing with each others rules and wishes. My wife is on the 'rules and limitations' end of the scale, my girlfriend on the 'i want it all' end of it. She already said that she would have trouble accepting a role as a secondary (yeah I know how you guys feel about that terminology sometimes but I feel it just labels thing clearly for me and that's what I need right now) in the long run but would we willing to accept that as a starting point. That's a recipe for confrontations of course. As of right now, there is no open and honest line of communication between them but we're working on that. Or, we are gonna work on that. Right now I feel it's almost the most important thing in this vee-kinda-setup (things are fine between my wife and me, things are fine between my girlfriend and me) but of course I don't want to impose anything on either of 'm. If my wife can't be friends (or whatever) with my girlfriend, that's her right, no? I really don't expect them to be best friends ever of course. Is it necessary for her to be for this to work? What's your view? Or should they just cut ties if they aren't able to communicatie clear and open? This is really a big question for me, thanks for bringing it up.

Generally speaking, it's been only a week since a spoke to my wife about this of course, but my wife seems ok. She's not suffering and our communication is great at the moment. She's reading one of the books on poly I recommended to her and we talk about that. My girlfriend is like i miss you i miss you i miss you (we still text) but accepting that we agreed to a month of no meeting and stuff. So far so good, I guess. Thanks again guys.
 
I have no idea if its necessary for your wife and girlfriend to be friends for things to work. My experience is so limited. I know that the two times prior I've been in poly relationships they began with everyone being close friends, living together or all very close by, then partnering up, then cross-partnering up. Because of that I think of friendship as an ideal basis because it worked so well, but really, there are many ways of things can potentially work.

Glad things are going ok with your wife. Incidentally I talked to my wife tonight about everything that's been racing through my mind today. Apparently she is now not only very much more open to polyamory but was excited by the idea of meeting people in the local poly community when I suggested it. She said she also has no problem with me having romantic/sexual relationships with our mutual friends, right now even, so long as it doesn't take up excessive amounts of my time. Its a sea-change. It seems impossible. I won't believe it until I see it. If it turns out to be true I might just melt into pure happiness. Would make that (hideously embarrassing) introductory topic I wrote pointless and obsolete, too. Please don't feel like you have to read it or reply. I wish I'd just written, "Hi!" :eek:
 
But then your intro wouldn't be so exciting. ;)

Re (from wildchild):
"If my wife can't be friends (or whatever) with my girlfriend, that's her right, no? I really don't expect them to be best friends ever of course. Is it necessary for her to be for this to work? What's your view?"
Click to expand...

Your wife and girlfriend (who are metamours to each other) don't necessarily have to be friends to make it work. Now that doesn't mean their being friends isn't a helpful bonus. But it's not something I'd try to force.

Re: More Than Two ... has been getting a lot of rave reviews and I think it's outstanding that you're reading it. I actually still need to read it myself, but I am familiar with Franklin Veaux's writings in general, so I expect great things. I recently moved (to a nearby town), so there's a lot of chaos in the house ... and like you, I'd like a hard copy of the book.
 
Leander, not to thrash your party or anything, but I'd be very weary of sea-changes. If my wife, who was crying the one night, be all happy and in favor of poly one day later, I'd be very, very cautious. Just my 2 cents I guess (which probably belong in your own topic). Not that I don't wish you all the best in this, of course.
 
Yes, people's emotional states can do 180's in no time at all (and without notice).
 
Oh, I will be wary. Parties always have to come back down to earth. Even if things are moving in the direction I hope they are its likely going to be a case of two steps forward, one step back. It is encouraging, though. Something is up. This morning together it felt a lot like how we were the when we first met.
 
Greetings, little update time: all good here. We had a lot of family time this week, my wife and I went to the theatre this week which was fun, we had a little quality time with our kid and we really enjoyed that. The wife still didn't run of screaming so I'm guessing that's good as well ;). Tonight I'm going out for dinner with a close (female, haha) friend of mine, known her longer than my wife even, really looking forward to catching up and talking (she knows about our swinger background, is really openminded and interested about even though she admits is not for her).

Apart from all that I'm thinking really hard and reading all sorts of information about all this. Sometimes it seems that the two people involved want to know "what I want" even though I really don't know that myself. I just want to be able to express love to the both of them, keeping no secrets whatsoever, keep a good and open line of communication all around and take it 1 day at a time. I really have no plans apart from that (except be happy - but I'm struggling with the question where does my happiness end and being selfish begin?).

It's hard to keep in mind that poly relations don't have to follow a certain set of rules and that you 'just' have to keep it ethical and consensual. And if that's hard for me, how hard is it for my wife who is really just dragged into this? Not from a purely mono-relationship, but still.

Btw Kdt, More Than Two is really a wonderful book. It's thorough, it's confronting but as I said, it's sometimes a tough read. I also ordered 'Opening Up', seems like a real practical guide and starting point.
 
Yeah I've read Opening Up. Very good book. Doesn't just specialize in polyamory like More Than Two does; Opening Up covers all forms of ethical nonmonogamy. But it dedicates a lot of pages to polyamory.

Snowbunny (my poly partner) just ordered More Than Two and it should arrive in about a week. I'm a slow reader but I should be able to grind through it before 2016 rolls around.
 
I'm reading Opening Up right now, it's a good book. Bit generic but nice to review some of the foundation of all this non monogamous stuff. And it does a great job at explaining all the various kinds of it. I've temporarily stopped reading More Than Two, waiting for a hard copy, intensive reading on an iPad just isn't my thing I guess.

Next I'm looking at The Ethical Slut, which seems highly recommended everywhere. I'm really enjoying reading up on the subject I guess. Maybe I should start a little poly book club or something :D.

Nothing much happening on the wife/girlfriend situation right now. Wife and I both been sick so we were just dealing with that as it took most of our energy away. Wife and girlfriend are opening up their communication it seems, which is always a good thing of course. We're taking it slow, which I definitly see as a good investment in the future. No need to rush!
 
Nope, slow is good.

I read the original version of Ethical Slut. The new (and of course improved) version is called, "The Ethical Slut: a practical guide to polyamory, open relationships and other adventures," by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy.

A few other books worth looking at:

  • "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá.
  • "Polyamory: the new love without limits," by Deborah Anapol.
  • "The Polyamorists Next Door: inside multiple-partner relationships and families," by Elisabeth Sheff.
I've read "Sex at Dawn" and the older version of "Love without Limits." I haven't read "The Polyamorists Next Door" yet but I'm reeeally curious.

Not to flood you with books or anything but I had to mention those three ...
 
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