Couple-hunting in Unicornia

The trouble I have with the whole "in-your-face-argument" is that nobody considers a woman to be violating anybody's privacy by going to the day care with her husband and introducing him as her husband. Hell, pretty much nobody considers her to do that even if she tries to convert each non-straight/mono person into hetero-monogamy.
 
Thanks for the support, rory. What I was thinking but didn't have the nerve to say :).

Yesterday we had a talk with Vanilla about being/staying out and what kind of Do Ask, We'll Tell policy we want for our eventual married life with possible kids. I was first shocked, then amused and eventually depressed by the reaction towards the triad/vee and started having all sorts of "OMG we'll never be accepted" ideas in my head.

But today, my dearest FWB of all time (I've had one, but, you know, he is the best) sent me a message which ended with: "My life's definitely better for having you in it." My mood instantly shot through the roof. I am so blessed to have such varied, unique loves in my life.
 
"This is our child, SpongeBob SquarePants. This is my spouse, VanillaIce. This is my/our partner, RandomDudeWhoLivesWithUs. Please put into your notes that any one of us might show up to pick up Bob."

I have always believed that sticking to the facts saves a lot of backlash. Some folks will speculate and gossip, no matter what. However, it takes a whole lot of wind out of their sails when there's no "secret" to share. Not to say that daycare workers need to know the inner workings of your relationship. Most mono folks don't do this - "This is my husband and kids father, but he's sleeping on the couch because ...". Once you have kids, there are very few secrets anyway :D. My kids teachers always knew when my husband and I were fighting.
 
Once you have kids, there are very few secrets anyway :D. My kids teachers always knew when my husband and I were fighting.

Haha, I can imagine the teacher-kid conversation:
"Mummy is coming to pick me up from school today, because Daddy moved to Grandma's, because he met this lady and now there is a boundary break and everybody communicated and now Mummy needs compersion."

A guy I had the hugest crush on in highschool removed me from his friends on Facebook. Not that we communicated in any way before or after I asked to befriend him, but I was mainly curious to see where he lived, if he was dating anyone, just your regular stalking people from highschool-stuff. But somehow it was much worse because I used to be so into him, and it felt like rejection, which it mostly likely wasn't meant to be. He isn't even an active user for that matter. In highschool I felt like I was an outsider, definitively not one of the cool kids, which he of course was - hence the crush.

I asked to befriend a guy I met in class, purely based on attraction I felt towards him. He hasn't responded, which will make it really awkward to meet him in class next week. I feel stupid to have asked to befriend him based on such a brief talk (I need to defend myself by saying that he has well over 1500 friends, so he doesn't seem one of those "close friends and family only" FB users). Rejection hurts even if it's just virtual and impersonal. I think all of my feelings of being a geeky outcast no guy from among the popular crowd could ever possibly want to date and who will die alone and unwanted activated all at the same time. Weird how you think you would have gotten over something and then something small happens and it turns out you haven't :eek:.
 
Yes, I'm on a rejection streak, to be a bit overdramatic about it. It does hurt, even when the rejections are for 'good' reasons. I am attempting to accept the pain, sadness and hurt - something I am not great at. But ignoring it would just cause those feelings to rebound stronger in some other situation. I've had that happen and it is mortifying. Now returning to your regularly scheduled blog...
 
Yes, I'm on a rejection streak, to be a bit overdramatic about it. It does hurt, even when the rejections are for 'good' reasons.

:( Poor babby. Dating is brutal.

Just for those of you who are not mired knee-deep in Finnish politics, I am happy to announce that an openly gay and married candidate has just been selected for the final round of the presidentail elections! Might take a few decades still for openly poly, but we'll see.

In a group I attend very irregularly, one member totally dominates all discussion. He interrupts and speaks out of turn, often drowning other voices with his. He is very argumentative and especially prone to interrupt women speaking. He is so obnoxious that he is making others in the group uncomfortable and I seriously wish he would leave, or at least start attending less frequently.

I started thinking what to do in a poly situation where one partner is so toxic that they poison the whole set of relationships around them and make others want to leave. Is there a point when the poly wisdom of going at the pace of the one who is struggling the most turns on its head and everybody ends up struggling at the pace of the one who is the most aggressive in getting their needs for being heard met? What to do in a situation where one partner and their concerns and problems take the center stage every time with total disregard and disrespect to everyone else?

Poly isn't a democracy, but is there a point when the misery of many outweighs the comfort of one? I'm not talking about mono/poly situations only in here. Can the group, tribe, cluster whatever veto one partner together, or is that just simple old-school bullying and totally antithetical to the spirit of ethical non-monogamy? I know that ultimately everyone is only responsible for their own choices in continuing a relationship, but I'm wondering is there a point in the group process where the domineering individual could still be steered towards mutual respect and willingness to listen in order to understand, instead of listen in order to gather ammunition for counter-arguments?
 
A bunch of things

A little over a month since I posted and so much has happened. I used to think I'm no good posting when nothing's happening, but it seems I suck at posting when there's a heap of things going on, too.

So I find myself in a triad again. Which is a challenge, really. The eligible bachelour in question (not the one who lives upstairs, thank heavens) is in his first relationship ever at the tender age of 25. I don't know if I'd want my first relationship to be in a triad. He has trouble grasping the concept of poly, and doesn't really believe things like this can last. I've tried to explain that it's not the duration of a any given relationship that matters but whether the people in it were in it 100% when it was a relationship or just passing time in wait of something better. I think there's a clear difference between "I want to be with you forever" and "I want to be with you right now". He says he probably loves me, but doesn't really know what love feels like. I told him to give it a year.

Anyhoo, he shall henceforth be known as Cookie.

Vanilla has another beau as well. Do you know the feeling when you've met someone new and you're not sure if they really understand what poly is about and wonder how to get it through to them? Well I can tell you that inviting them over so they can see you with other partners and hoping this will make it more tangible is a fucking bad idea. He got jealous, drank too much, threatened with suicide and acted as if Vanilla was his sole property and possession. Not cool.

Did I mention Vanilla is talking almost daily over FB with a friend from school who is depressed, unpredictable, unstable and clearly interested. Did I mention he's also violent? I think Vanilla might have a syndrome of being desperately drawn to hopeless cases.
 
Hey there, first time for me responding to your story, thanks for sharing so far, I enjoyed reading it. And good luck with your new relationship even though it sounds like as I would be totally stressed in that situation ;) But he should do reasonably well with a more experienced partner in the new poly realm, so I will be rooting for you.

What crossed my mind while reading the second part of your entry, don't you feel worried when Vanilla gets involved with those kind of people? I can't imagine myself staying uninvolved because I would constantly fear for her safety. And I realized that this could invite some trouble because I may invade her private space and appear as controlling and meddlesome. How do you handle a situation when you know that a possible partner or interest of your partner may not be that healthy for her?
 
Hey there, first time for me responding to your story, thanks for sharing so far, I enjoyed reading it.

Aww, thanks!

And good luck with your new relationship even though it sounds like as I would be totally stressed in that situation ;) But he should do reasonably well with a more experienced partner in the new poly realm, so I will be rooting for you.

It's a struggle. It's actually more of a struggle between Vanilla and Cookie, more of that below.

How do you handle a situation when you know that a possible partner or interest of your partner may not be that healthy for her?

Vanilla's had her share of crazy partners for sure. Her ex tried to kill her and now they are best of friends; another ex tried to kill her friend and now they are slowly rebuilding a connection, which delights her greatly. People can change, and some people make better friends than partners, I guess. Especially if someone's been struggling for years with mental health issues and that's all you've ever seen of them, I think it's fair to give a second change to them if they say and demonstrate that they are now better.

Bottom line - I am highly suspicious of some of her more crazy friends, but I trust her in that just like in the past, she knew when to get out of a crazy situation and was able to get out, she will do so even now. I did request she and Pistachio (pseudonym for her new boyfriend, the one who was so out of line previously) not drink when they are together, because Chio's antidepressants and booze just don't seem to work together.

I'm a bit wary discussing Vanilla's problems in here, because they are her problems and she can go and talk about them in her own blog if she wants to. She is struggling, though, in a way I have compassion for but can't really do much about, since it's not about our relationship but her relationships with Chio and Cookie that are stressing her out. I try not to get caught in a middlewoman role between her and Cookie, though, since I still think triad is made out of three individual relationships. While they are fighting I occasionally try to lighten the mood and steer the conversation to calmer waters, and fail miserably every time. So let them work it out on their own. I was watching Supernatural, Season 1, where Sam comments to Dean regarding Dean's ex: "So the two of you worked things out, huh?" Dean: "We'll still be working things out when we're 90".

With Cookie we are now in a more peaceful place, which means I would like to have him near more than Vanilla does. With all the struggle, Vanilla would like to have more time with me alone for just relaxing and hanging out. Vanilla found about this great study opportunity some 30 minutes south, but is reluctant to go because that would mean either commuting to school everyday or moving in there part-time. I really think this is what she should be doing with her life, and feel sad to see her let that opportunity go, but the more I push the more she feels I'm trying to drive her away to be with Cookie, which isn't true :(.
 
I have to say, seeing a unicorn and understand what they're going through is really refreshing.

As unicorn 'hunters' (seekers?), we've come across many women who are searching, but it turns out they're attached and just looking for a playmate, something that was left out of a lot of profiles (back when we did some online searching).

Began to lose belief that they existed. Then it sort of clicked, most couples aren't just looking for a unicorn. They've found one (bi, attractive, open to triad chick) and are with them. They're looking for two.

Thank you for writing and sharing!
 
Then it sort of clicked, most couples aren't just looking for a unicorn. They've found one (bi, attractive, open to triad chick) and are with them. They're looking for two.

Thanks for reading, and I think you are on to something there. I said to Moonlight that his problem with poly is that he is trying to hit the jackpot twice. He already has an amazing wife, and is trying to find an amazing gf.

I no longer ID as an unicorn, since I am happily partnered with a woman for life. It just so happens that my current boyfriend is also involved with my partner, but I don't need them to be a couple for us to be a couple with the bf.
 
It was a big step for us to stop actively searching and pining after a third. I've spent some time the last few days here updating and putting us out there, but it's more of trying to be part of the poly community.

From reading so much of this site, it doesn't really seem like a couple goes out, finds a unicorn, brings her home and happily ever after. 'Normal' (and by that I mean the average, straight, American, mono relationship) hardly ever work that way (maybe anymore). These relationship seem highly complicated and very hard to anticipate.

For many of you with some level of success (and I consider myself successful in this endeavor: happy couple, a happy triad would just add to it) it seems to almost happen by accident.

Best of luck.
 
NRE monstrosities

So, it appears I have turned into an NRE monster.

The weekend was spent fighting, mostly. First Cookie and Vanilla had a massive two-hour fight, and I had a panic attack. I've come to realize I shy away from conflicts, which isn't necessarily the best pattern to have when you're poly. They slept in separate beds and I literally felt torn apart, having to choose with whom to sleep. I even contemplated getting the one-person camp bed out to circumvent the whole issue.

It was a good fight, though, although Vanilla is still really hurt and kinda pissed off that Cookie hasn't apologized even though she said she was hurt by what he said. They agreed to be metamours from now on. Metamours who cuddle and occasionally sleep together, that is. So we're in a tree now, I guess. Or a vead. Not a triad but not exactly a vee either.

Vanilla was upset because although in theory, she was supposed to be Cookie's gf too, all the affection and the attention from him was flowing solely in my direction. When they talked about it previously, Cookie said that he wanted to be partners, not metamours. Turns out he was only saying that because he thought that if he only dated me, that would create a drift between me and Vanilla.

So, after the catastrophic Friday night, things were quickly looking up for our polycircle. We went to a house party together all three of us. After the party we were supposed to go with Vanilla to another party downtown. After we came home from party number one, Vanilla confessed she would like to sleep with Cookie. It didn't happen, thanks to the beers Cookie had consumed earlier that night, but I sort of was left with the impression that Vanilla wanted to continue hanging out with him too. What I did was locate my desire to continue hanging out with him in Vanilla, to make it okay for him to come to the party number two with us. So when he invited himself to the party number two, I was more than happy to oblige.

So, to the party we went, and I had a lovely time with Cookie. We had been in the club for about an hour when I started wondering why Vanilla was taking so long outside having her cigarette. I looked for her in the club in vain, and then asked her friend if she had seen Vanilla. "She went home". WHAT?!?

An angry text/phone fight ensued. I resent people pulling histrionics instead of coming up front to tell what's eating at them. Vanilla maintains she's happy that she did it, since it was the only way to get my attention, because according to her, I spent the entire night lost in Cookie's throat anyway. I guess she was right, although I did try to involve her. I've talked before how she should signal the exact moment when she feels neglected, so I can learn what I'm doing wrong and start paying more attention to her in tangible ways she can see and appreciate. She thinks she shouldn't have to beg for my attention if we are supposed to be together anyway.

Vanilla left the party because she was feeling physically sick because of all the jealousy and neglect, and my shouting didn't improve matters :(. She feels that throughout this month, she's constantly been asking us to slow things down, for me to pay attention to her, for us to have more time alone, for Cookie not to start moving into our place, and none of the talking has had any effect one my behaviour. I act really impulsively and move things along fast on the best of days, and especially so when I'm falling for someone. So I'm an NRE demon, and can't handle it.

I've suggested before we stop seeing Cookie together and I only hang out with him when Vanilla's unavailable. She doesn't want that because she holds Cookie dear and enjoys time spent among the three of us. However, their connection is not strong enough for her to want date time with him alone. She feels it's unfair that because I can't stop being an arse and neglecting her, nobody gets to have threesome time (not in the way of sex but in general hanging-out-together way).

We've tried to hatch a game plan for us to move along from this point.
1. We calm things down for now, which means no time between the three of us at least until we come back from a holiday we've been waiting for a really long time.
2. Both get to have two dates per week with their guys: one night a week I go to Cookie's and Pistachio comes over at our place, the second night Cookie comes over and Vanilla sleeps at Chio's. One night a week (during the weekend, most likely) Cookie comes over to our place and we hang out all together.
3. We make specific agreements over which functions we shall attend all three together and which are just for Vanilla and me. Vanilla's said I don't keep to these agreements and I think I either simply forget or maybe want to forget what was agreed to before. So I hope these will be really specific in the future.
4. I also hope Vanilla will start pointing out to me when I'm out of line. She feels this is unfair for her, but I hope she would be willing to do it for as long as I get out of this crazy NRE muddle.
 
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What a crazy story. While it really sucks that you guys are going through growing pains it is nice to see others having similar problems to what I do. Feeling neglected even when you aren't necessarily being neglected is a hard jealousy to overcome. I can identify with vanilla big time. I constantly go after the damsel in distress and I get jealous when I am ignored even if it's just perceived and not real. Ironically, I have no issue with what they do when I am not there.
 
Ah, the dreaded NRE monster. Runic Wolf really had to beat me over the head with the reality stick on occasion. It does get better, but Vanilla really does need to accept that NRE is like a drug and you will occasionally need her to reign you in. Runic Wolf had a hard time with feeling neglected even when I was present with him. It's funny because he's in NRE with Loveleigh and instead of it bothering me, I'm enjoying it.
 
I'm wondering if you use something like google calendar to schedule, and if that could help you remember the specifics you've agreed to for who at what functions?
Sounds like you have a good plan.
 
Seems like scheduling would be paramount which it seems like you've tackled. YES Vanilla needs to be her own advocate, and it is too bad that she isn't eager for that role, but I can get the reluctance, as I like to think my partners can tell when I'm uncomfortable and that if they are paying attention they will do something about it. And that is great, but I still need to speak up if it turns out they DON'T get it.

Is it possible that besides two dates a week you schedule a communication/reading of a certain book about poly/communication/relational date night that you can share with Vanilla or perhaps Cookie too (or anybody else who could benefit from it you know)? Going over a certain chapter where you can discuss feelings or practice skills that will keep another night like V disappearing from the club from happening again because you are all able to better speak up?
 
Thanks for all the support and input!

I'm wondering if you use something like google calendar to schedule, and if that could help you remember the specifics you've agreed to for who at what functions?

:eek: We have the stick-and-stones version of GoogleCalendar hanging on our wall, and inspired by your suggestion we agreed to put down dates/functions that are just for the two of us with a special code on our family planner, so no chance for miscommunication/forgetting later!

Is it possible that besides two dates a week you schedule a communication/reading of a certain book about poly/communication/relational date night that you can share with Vanilla or perhaps Cookie too (or anybody else who could benefit from it you know)? Going over a certain chapter where you can discuss feelings or practice skills that will keep another night like V disappearing from the club from happening again because you are all able to better speak up?

That is a lovely idea, thank you! I think we will start with Pekka Hämäläinen's book I mentioned earlier, and maybe progress to a more lesbian-specific book if that goes well.
 
I'm wondering, how do you actually behave in NRE? Is that true how Vanilla put it, that you spent a lot of time making out with Cookie?

I don't think it would really solve anything for you to only see Cookie when Vanilla is unavailable. It only puts off dealing with the issue, whether the issue is that she feels uncomfortable seeing you in NRE with somebody else or that you neglect her when you're in NRE with somebody else (do you know which one it is, the issue?).

I don't think it is or should be Vanilla's responsibility to point out when you're being neglectful or inconsiderate towards her. I do think the person in NRE has to put extra effort into making sure she's not being an arse. So is it really the case that you can't tell when you're inconsiderate, or doing something that could make her uncomfortable? Say, you and Cookie met with a good friend of yours and had coffee all three of you. Whatever you think could (reasonably) make your friend uncomfortable, you should consider stuff that may make Vanilla feel uncomfortable. Your friend would assumably be fine with you hugging or kissing briefly a few times, but not with foreplay. So, even if you do sometimes have hot threesomes, it is still the case that when you're out and about Vanilla can feel like a third wheel if you have your tongue in his mouth for the whole evening. Or what do you think?

Oh, and really? You think all three of you moving in at this point would be a good idea? I would be insanely scared to do that after reading all the poly-drama-horrorstories here about what cohabitation leads to when you do it too soon. I think all of the polyfamilies here who've done it succesfully have waited for quite a long time.
 
I don't think it is or should be Vanilla's responsibility to point out when you're being neglectful or inconsiderate towards her. I do think the person in NRE has to put extra effort into making sure she's not being an arse. So is it really the case that you can't tell when you're inconsiderate, or doing something that could make her uncomfortable?

I disagree as I know how I can be at times without having any bad intentions. I sometimes don't get it. It's as simple as that. I sometimes need someone pointing out to me what I have caused by behaving like this or like that. Therefore, no, it shouldn't be a responsibility, but it can help to bear in mind if a person is bad at picking up signals from others in special situations. I am often made aware of my shortcomings in regard to interaction with others, and I am extremely thankful to my close friends and family minding it.

Of course I try to mind my partners as much as possible, but there are situations I don't get the reason why someone is upset by something I did or said. And it is helpful to be reminded of that.

Oh, and really? You think all three of you moving in at this point would be a good idea? I would be insanely scared to do that after reading all the poly-drama-horrorstories here about what cohabitation leads to when you do it too soon. I think all of the polyfamilies here who've done it succesfully have waited for quite a long time.

Well, not ALL polyfamilies as we moved in Lin right after deciding on giving poly a go. But maybe that's the obligatory exception to the rule. :rolleyes: But I have to admit that statistically (going by this forum at least) rushing things is a bad idea.
 
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