DADT and Poly

[vinsanity0]

Cat initially asked for DADT. In our case it could have worked between us. I traveled a lot between here and another city. My plan was to establish a relationship in the other city. I was never home for long periods so I had no desire to establish another relationship here. Of course, she had relationships here, but scheduled for me when I was home.

As I said, it could have worked between us. The problem, as I saw it, was it might not work between me and potential partners. I'm a guy. Most women assume a guy in a DADT is a lying cheater.

Another thing I didn't like about it was I didn't want to have to edit my speech. I'd rather say, "Elle and I went out to this great place she showed me. They had a great band", rather than "Oh I just went out and saw a band."

 

[RedRover]

I have read this thread four times now because of the statement I am going to make next:
I'm with the ones who sense some red flags and that has been well defined so no need to add to it...I point it out because what I want to ask about and the further convo that might come out of it......might seem that I am blind to the red flags....I'm not.
(HA..how's that for covering my butt?)

What I wanted to ask about was this:

sent him a very polite text since I had his number, just to make sure he had mine - so that in the unlikely event of an emergency while they were alone together - he could have my number on his phone. I was somewhat bothered that I didn't even get an acknowledgment back even though I am certain of the number - clearly not a big concern, but not a great sign either.

Have the two of you communicated at all or have any way to communicate?

My secondary prefers to have no contact with my husband.

It is a mutual agreement, everyone is on board with it...it was one of the things that got hashed to death in the beginning of the relationship......because my husband texted him out of the blue one afternoon so he would have husband's phone number in case something happened when I was at secondary's place.

He didn't respond to my husband...and it bothered my husband for a while that he didn't. He didn't respond because it freaked him out to get a text message from "the" husband.

Poor guy.... he knew what he was getting into from the get go...but still.....wasn't really prepared for the whole ball of wax.....but then *sigh*none of us were.

He swears he has never bedded a married woman (that he knows of) and surely never bedded one with a husband waiting for her to return home...and that text message just made something surreal......way to really real for him in that moment.

It started a whole dialogue about how we all communicate with each other and how they would communicate with each other...and respecting each other right to boundaries while we work to keep every thing transparent.

Something that just flat out did not occur to me when I kinda fell into the second relationship.



There's a wicked learning curve here, eh?

 

[Marcus]

......because my husband texted him out of the blue one afternoon so he would have husband's phone number in case something happened when I was at secondary's place.

Does Husband text his contact number in case of emergency to everyone you know and all new people who you hang out with or might hang out with? Has he called your boss and all of your coworkers to let them know what his callback number is in case "something happens"?

If yes, then that's a very parental viewpoint of you, and I'm guessing some Dom/sub thing. If not, I am moved to ponder why one might do that with a new lover in particular. It seems to me that this "just in case something happens" friendly text could easily be interpreted as a display of authority... a reminder of one's place, if you will. "Don't forget... she's *my* wife"

 

[RedRover]

It was a sincere move on his part..no "she's mine" alpha flexing. Nothing menacing. Just a southern guy who has some old fashioned manners......and felt it was the considerate thing to do.
As I recall the text was pretty much "Hey, just wanted to make sure you know how to get in touch just case" benign.

We run in the same circles, we own our own business, I am the boss so everyone already has both our phone numbers.
Come to think of it...my secondary may have been the only guy in our world at that point in time who didn't have both of our numbers and if I had been thinking straight at that point in time......I would have made sure he had my husband's number, but I wasn't exactly thinking between my ears back then. Now days...we each have a list of ICE contacts for each other.

(FTR......married almost 40 years....the secondary relationship is nine years old as of last month.....back then it was new and we were all sorta stumbling thru...LOL.)

 

[Al99]

Thanks for your thoughts, RedRover,

Since I was the OP, I will reply -

Have the two of you communicated at all or have any way to communicate? ............
......because my husband texted him out of the blue one afternoon so he would have husband's phone number in case something happened when I was at secondary's place.
He didn't respond to my husband...and it bothered my husband for a while that he didn't. He didn't respond because it freaked him out to get a text message from "the" husband.

I have actually met my wife's bf, Ben. When my wife, Becky, first asked me to open up the marriage so she could explore her resurgent feelings for her old college bf (Ben), they had already been talking and texting for about a month. I was vaguely aware of this but thought it was "an as old friends thing" - and it had started that way but then the old feelings had resurfaced - and that was when Becky came to me to open things up. There was a timing issue as well as we were going to be in Ben's hometown to visit relatives over the holiday season and she wanted to meet him for lunch one day and see how it would go. I agreed - but only if I got to meet him first - an idea that actually came from some reading I had previously done on poly that was completely unrelated to Ben (the study had resulted from a conversation with my wife's friend who was openly poly - I had found it interesting but did not think it would be for me). So we all met for coffee, and it was a bit awkward, and I made the speech that I had prepared - mostly about how this could not be allowed to interfere with our family (we have a young daughter who loves her family life). He was clearly uncomfortable, but polite, only said a few words but did assure me that he would not want to disrupt any child's home life. Anyway - too much detail - a flaw of mine - but the point is - yes, we had met. And, really he seemed like a decent enough fellow.

Like your husband, I wanted to make sure he could contact me (the husband, after all) if Becky got hit by a bus or something when she was alone with him.

Red flags - Becky and I have talked about it and she is not really thrilled that he is not more open about things (as we are). She does believe that they had agreed to a DADT deal along the way - but also thinks he is going out of his way to not tell - like he is treating it like an affair even though he should not have to. In my view, in a DADT marriage, one would not tell but if a relationship were inadvertently discovered, it should not be a big deal - acknowledged perhaps but not discussed in detail - or make the change to full poly. Becky does have reason to believe that he is being honest about there being a DADT agreement somewhere along the way - although I won't go into details - but her reasoning makes sense - and so I am not sure why he seems to be extra secretive. Yes - definitely a red flag ....

Al

 

[RedRover]

I on my way out the door cuz duty calls......but this:

He was clearly uncomfortable, but polite, only said a few words

Made me chuckle and shake my head...sounds like the first time both my guys were in the same room.

I am looking forward to chatting with you some more about this soon as I can slow down this evening.

 

[RedRover]

The "red flag" issue.....I see them...but I might be a fence sitter...I know how things can come to light and what looked like a red flag...may not be one after all.


I do know a few couples who run on DADT for the use of pro domination services and while I'm not real keen on that...I do understand the why and how of the inner workings.

(Man my guys need nic names.....I think I am gonna go with Thing One for husband and Thing Two for secondary...it is a running joke at our place.)

My own secondary relationship started out with some red flags that had be fleshed out...one of them being the way Thing Two reacted to Thing One texting him.


I did wonder what the big deal was about him getting a text from Thing One.... who might see it.? What's the big deal?

He'd told me he was divorced and not in a relationship when I meet him. I took him at his word....turned out....besides just being pushed into a reality he didn't really grasp when he got the text from Thing One, he had shared custody of his kids at the time...three teen agers who were nosy...LOL.

They had no respect for dad's boundaries and would go thru his phone looking for texts from their mom....he was kinda freaked out about having to explain the text to them.

There were times my husband would ask me if I was sure Thing Two was 100% single.....he saw things that didn't make sense to him.....but I knew what I knew because I was there...in it...and sometimes..as hard as it was for him...he just had to trust blindly.

Not so easy to do cuz he sees his job one to keep me safe and off the drama train...and I love him dearly for that...but sometimes he has to let me ride the train alone and trust I can handle myself...that I'm not gonna get sucker punched just cuz I'm not always thinking between my ears.

I do hope in the long run......what looks like red flags now....will turn out to be things that have simple explanations...for both of you.

 

[Al99]

Al, the OP, wrote:
He was clearly uncomfortable, but polite, only said a few words

RedRover replied:
Made me chuckle and shake my head...sounds like the first time both my guys were in the same room.

Actually, I would be ok with three of us going out to dinner and the Comedy Club, or hanging out and watching a movie or such - but Becky says that Ben is nowhere near ready for that - and that he really does just not understand the whole poly-transparency thing. (Sounds like your Thing Two has a similar viewpoint!)

Additionally, with the current logistics, I don't think Becky really wants to give up any of the relatively short time that she has to spend with Ben so the three of us can do things together - but... who knows... that could change also - might be more time available down the road.

Best, Al

 

[RedRover]

(Sounds like your Thing Two has a similar viewpoint!)

Very much so...like Ben...he can't get his mind around how the dynamics of my marriage work....much to the chagrin of my husband...who would love nothing more then for the three of us to be "best buds" and hang out and do things together.

Like Becky tho....our time is limited and it is a pretty big undertaking to find time for us to see each other because of distance/work/life....adding the logistics planning of time to do the "buddy thing"...just not feasible.

Do you find yourself getting frustrated being left out of the loop to some degree? Maybe left out is the wrong wording.

(Yeah, believe it or not, this is exactly what I was talking about in my intro thread....talking to others who live this away from the femdom set...to get a bead on how to make the adjustments we need to make to get Thing Two over his hump.)

 

[Al99]

Do you find yourself getting frustrated being left out of the loop to some degree? Maybe left out is the wrong wording.

RedRover - we're still new at this - so Becky hasn't really been away with Ben enough for me to feel left out. Becky approached me about this back around the first of December - she met him once for lunch and once for coffee (after the 3 of us had met) while we were down his way for the holidays - no sex just some smooching. As I discussed in my intro, we had lots of discussion and processing over the first few weeks (my perspective of my wife having a bf was obviously different than your husband's, although I do understand - to some degree, "intellectually" perhaps - the appeal of the hotwife concept). By the time we were approaching mid January, I was finally able to wrap my head around it enough (the paradigm shift) to give my blessing to her having a sexual/romantic relationship with Ben.

Because of the distance involved, and because we have a young child at home, and because we are not trying to go full scale, no holds barred, out of the closet poly - we agreed to Becky having one overnight a month with Ben. There have been 3 so far and an afternoon rendezvous they were able to work out (they both do some business travel, so they try to coordinate around that. Becky has a bit more flexibility because, like you folks, we also work together in our own small business.) So not not much time to get together - and Becky not really gone enough to feel left out. Of course, there is always the emotional challenge of knowing that your wife is spending the night with her bf - but I've been able to manage that well enough. The last couple of times, I've had a friend over - while Becky was out on town "on business" and we watched movies that Becky doesn't care for till 1 or 2 in the morning - along with a couple of drinks.

So, again, I've not really felt "left out" given the limited circumstances - however, if Ben were local and it was weekly instead of monthly, then I might begin to feel left out - especially since I am not dating anyone (although, unlike your situation with Thing 1, that is an option for me - but not looking anytime right away).

From a different post:

We run in the same circles, we own our own business, I am the boss so everyone already has both our phone numbers.
Come to think of it...my secondary may have been the only guy in our world at that point in time who didn't have both of our numbers

That would be us as well. We do live in large city, and we've only been together as a couple for a dozen years or so - but virtually everyone who we would associate with (business, socially, organizationally, etc) knows we're together and would know to contact the other in an emergency. So me making sure that Ben had my phone number was just good, prudent common sense - you never know when the unforeseen might come upon you.

But - got to get to work.

Al

 

[RedRover]

But - got to get to work

*chuckling*
I get that...I am supposed to be looking over 100 day projections and paying bills, but instead, here I am pondering all this.


I don't know why your thread has struck such a chord with me, I guess it has taken me back to the start of this "thing" with Thing One and Two. The blown off "hey just in case" text, the DADT and the red flags. I'm not big on dwelling in the past but I am pragmatic enough to know those who don't appreciate their own history could be doomed to repeat it.

I really do appreciate you letting me sort of derail your thread here to pick at your thoughts and the time you are investing in the conversation with me.

I'm not sure where I am going with this but there is a kernel of something trying to get started in my brain over something here being a possible...uuhh...answer...to what I am trying to sort thru with Thing Two.

(my perspective of my wife having a bf was obviously different than your husband's, although I do understand - to some degree, "intellectually" perhaps - the appeal of the hotwife concept

Oh he was running straight down the line for full on femdom porn trope cucking......which ironically would have been loaded with DADT.


It was me that couldn't live that way and I knew he couldn't either...I'd been married to him for almost 30 years when I followed thru...so I knew the man behind the kink and I knew DADT (and the S.O.P of the femdom cuck trope)would make him insane over time.


I didn't even start to associate the concept of poly with what we were doing until a long good heart to heart with a friend who lives in a long term committed D/s relationship, has other partners purely for session time, (not fluid bound to play partners, her partner is also mono) she was the first person I meet that kinda understood where I was in the mess I sorta fell into at the start.

The "cuck theme was not working in my mind...it just wasn't a place I could go. She's the one who suggested I explore the poly concept.
(I'd been dealing with my husband's kink for YEARS when I found her as a mentor...I wasn't new to the kink world...but man I was as green as one can get to the world beyond the one I lived in with Thing One.)

I've never really chatted with folks outside that scope and that scope...when a woman says she has partners beyond her primary around the femdom set......the thoughts tend to run right to cuck themes.

I'm going off the rails here....I need to regroup and figure out a way to word what is going thru my mind.

Again, don't know why this has all struck a chord with me...but I truly appreciate your time.

 

[perpetualstudent]

My wife's bf is in a Don't Ask, Don't Tell open marriage, and he says that his marriage is now more about convenience, financial security, and the like - with not a whole lot of closeness, romance, or sex. And he says they have a workable DADT relationship and they both have had other partners in recent years. He tells my wife, Becky, that he thinks our situation is "weird" - in which I know "everything" (not really - but enough - like when she is seeing him, especially since it is long distance and it will usually work out that she go out of town and spend the night with him). The three of us actually met for coffee early in the process - during the talking stage - and he was clearly not comfortable with that either.

Just from this much information I would assume that he's cheating. I don't know if that bothers you or not, but it would bother me. As has been previously pointed out there are a host of troublesome consequences associated with non-consensual non-monogamy, one of which is a proclivity for unsafe sex and the host of ills that come with that.

I myself am in a DADT, but we have established rules and codes specifically designed to communicate where we are, what we're doing, and when we're likely to return. This is the very least that I can accept as a committed member of a marriage. I would like more, but her boundaries, and attachment, are different, and I respect that.

Because he deliberately talked trash about his marriage, his wife, and was judgmental towards yours, I would assume that his DADT is not a DADT at all but unadulterated cheating. And yes, that was a bad pun.

I feel for you, as I think you're in a tough spot. Protect your primary as she will most likely be deeply hurt by this relationship soon. Unfortunately, the most one can sometimes do in this respect is to be welcoming and non-judgmental when it does end badly then talk openly and without blame after the fact. No "I told you so" or you'll likely find yourself in an even worse situation.

For us, even though my wife doesn't want to know who or when or what happens, she still has the right to veto my relationships if she thinks they're bad for me. We made that perfectly clear before we started. Our primary relationship is, after all, the most important, and I would urge you to clarify your boundaries and your concerns in a rational way that is sympathetic to her viewpoint and needs.

I'm new here, so I don't really know if it's appropriate to offer advice. And if I've offended, I will retract it. But, as I understand it, I would not accept the untenable position that you've described.

 

[Al99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al99 (OP)
My wife's bf is in a Don't Ask, Don't Tell open marriage, and he says that his marriage is now more about convenience, financial security, and the like - with not a whole lot of closeness, romance, or sex. And he says they have a workable DADT relationship and they both have had other partners in recent years. He tells my wife, Becky, that he thinks our situation is "weird" - in which I know "everything" (not really - but enough - like when she is seeing him, especially since it is long distance and it will usually work out that she go out of town and spend the night with him). The three of us actually met for coffee early in the process - during the talking stage - and he was clearly not comfortable with that either.

perpetualstudent wrote:
Just from this much information I would assume that he's cheating.

Because he deliberately talked trash about his marriage, his wife, and was judgmental towards yours, I would assume that his DADT is not a DADT at all but unadulterated cheating. And yes, that was a bad pun.

I feel for you, as I think you're in a tough spot. Protect your primary as she will most likely be deeply hurt by this relationship soon. Unfortunately, the most one can sometimes do in this respect is to be welcoming and non-judgmental when it does end badly then talk openly and without blame after the fact. No "I told you so" or you'll likely find yourself in an even worse situation.

Al, the OP, replied:

Hi perpetualstudent,

Your perspective is appreciated and certainly not without merit. However, you may have missed comments I made later in the thread about how Becky has fairly conclusive "proof" that there had been a DADT agreement in her bf's marriage (details are not important) - so I am not absolutely convinced that he is outright cheating - and he wouldn't be if there is DADT in place (by definition, if it has never been rescinded) - although he does seem to be going out of his way to be more secretive than should be necessary in a DADT situation. In fairness, this may be because his marriage is not in the best of places right now. Also - he is not really judgmental of our marriage in a negative way - except that he just doesn't understand the transparent poly we have agreed to practice. In fact, Becky says he is actually jealous of the quality of our marriage - in a respectful way. As I mentioned in my intro post, I have met Ben, and he seemed like a decent enough fellow. So, while I am a bit suspicious of his secretiveness, my guess would be that he really does love her - and he does treat her well. I do not really harbor any ill will toward him - even if he was the catalyst for me being very begrudgingly pulled into the poly world. For a better context of my particular situation, you might refer to my introductory post - there is a link in my signature below.

I'm new here, so I don't really know if it's appropriate to offer advice. And if I've offended, I will retract it.

As someone wrote in a post earlier today - this is not always a warm and fuzzy place, although I would guess that most mean well (think of tough love mixed with a sprinkling of sarcasm). So, one always posts here at their own risk - but it may not be the best thing for the faint of heart, easily offended, or overly sensitive individual. It is always possible that one may receive feedback or advice that is less than tactful. So no offense taken, and I personally view all input as helpful - even if it is just because it prompts me to think in a certain direction whether I agree or not.
Although - some might raise an eyebrow at a brand new forum member offering firmly opinionated advice - possibly being more acceptable from those members who have posted many hundreds of times over a period of years.

And - welcome to the forum!

Al

 

[Al99]

RedRover wrote:

I really do appreciate you letting me sort of derail your thread here to pick at your thoughts and the time you are investing in the conversation with me. ............ I'm not sure where I am going with this but there is a kernel of something trying to get started in my brain over something here being a possible...uuhh...answer...to what I am trying to sort thru with Thing Two.

I've enjoyed chatting with you even if you are not a real Southern gal. Unfortunately, I don't really have any special thoughts for your about Thing Two's issue (insecurity, maybe) - especially since, as I mentioned last time, I am a primary (married, kid, mortgage, etc) and he is a secondary (married to someone else, in fact). Becky has done a fantastic job of keeping me reassured of her love and her commitment to me, our marriage, and our family - and all I could really say is to be patient with him - and constantly reassure him of your love and the safety of his relationship with you (after 9 years, he should be getting the message!) For the obvious reasons that you mentioned, I would think that Thing 2 would feel sexually secure with you.

You might want to start a separate thread under the "Poly Relations Corner" about your concerns - especially after you get it sorted out a bit.

The "cuck theme was not working in my mind...it just wasn't a place I could go. She's the one who suggested I explore the poly concept.
(I'd been dealing with my husband's kink for YEARS when I found her as a mentor...I wasn't new to the kink world...but man I was as green as one can get to the world beyond the one I lived in with Thing One.)

I'm sure that your 9 year relationship with Thing 2 was not what Thing 1 expected when you finally decided to honor his request - but he seems to have adapted. Without being too personal, did your relationship with Thing 2 (another man with a strong sexual element) satisfy his cuck fantasies to at least some degree?

We've been busy since my last message - hope your weekend is going well!

Al