didn't think I'd be here so soon

[Magdlyn]

It has been hard to sort though all my feelings and thoughts so I find it helpful that you ask direct questions to draw it out of me... a lot of soul searching.

Honestly, this makes me breath a sigh of relief. Maybe one day I can say with confidence that they are friends, but at this moment I feel like it's not a natural evolution; it would just make life for the others so much easier. They are not forcing me to work on the friendship...

I totally feel like I am mourning my old relationship! Jim has been very good about reassurance, very supportive, understanding... I feel that we are stronger because of it.

Dave and I tried to be together and it was a no go. In my opinion Dave is presenting as pansexual, as he has no interest in sex at all, with anyone.

OK, as I read along, I was happy things were calming down for you and Jim. And then this bombshell. Dave is not "pansexual." He is "asexual." And you tried to do a swap where you were set up with a man with no interest in sex, and yet Jim and Zoe were going at it like bunnies? And not only does Dave not fuck, he doesn't even talk, to entertain you??? What the hell kind of a deal is that for you?

He is very awkward with me now... he doesn't talk about any of this. He thanks Jim repeatedly for 'taking care of his wife'. It leaves me feeling invisible, or like Jim's pimp, when he says it to Jim when I'm right there.

Gross. I'm sorry, but you're reminding me about how weird "swinging" can be. You get dragged along to hang out with this silent, awkward unattractive asexual man, while your husband spends god knows how long fucking a "perfect" woman in the next room? For 3 years? And only now are you getting upset?

We both have an appreciation for therapy and have gone for sessions all during our time together.

Well, that's good. Because you've gotten a raw deal, and you put up with it for 3 years, for reasons I do NOT understand.

[We have been seeing Dave and Zoe for] 3 years and we are 3 years away from retirement.

This is just shocking to me. You're all 62? Or older, if you're retiring at 67? And you've been so cowed you've gone along with these boring "swinging" dates where you've gotten no action, except maybe some unsatisfying FMF for a while? Is that right?

It's been talked about by Zoe and Jim (and myself a bit) but when all this came to light, it was a WTF moment, and the fear landed in my lap. which led to the 'what other frigging plans have they made!'

Yes! I'm glad you're finally making some damn noise about it.

I had to look up these terms to make sure I was understanding the difference. I really relate more to the 'kitchen table poly' idea than parallel. Deep down, I do like Zoe for the most part. it's hard not to like her; she is great, dynamic and fun. I just want to rip her perfect face off every once in a while. (That felt really good to type!)

Let it out! No more Mr Nice Guy.

I know it will take time for me to squish this jealous 5 year old in my head. She's been there a long time and is normally stays in line, but after all this, that 5 year old is having a good time being let out.

It might be worth mentioning to your therapist what this 5 year old has been doing all these years. Maybe you had to repress her 60 years ago when the sexual abuse happened. You had to sit and be quiet and behave while adult men did bad things to you?

I felt that Jim was 100 steps ahead of me and i couldn't catch up. He figured this out as well, and has stepped back so we can go through this journey together, as he wants me in his life. We still have tons of talking to do, but so much of the fear is disappearing. I know I have lots to learn and work through on my part.

You all do! You're just putting on the brakes on a nasty ugly runaway train, where you were under the wheels until now, hon.

... but I feel so relieved that I have some breathing room and we can work through it together, to a common goal of both of us being comfortable in this new chapter.

I'm glad I was able to help. Keep up the good work.

 

[LolaLeigh]

OK, as I read along, I was happy things were calming down for you and Jim. And then this bombshell. Dave is not "pansexual." He is "asexual." And you tried to do a swap where you were set up with a man with no interest in sex, and yet Jim and Zoe were going at it like bunnies? And not only does Dave not fuck, he doesn't even talk, to entertain you??? What the hell kind of a deal is that for you?

so sorry, i meant to say asexual. Yes I agree not the best situation but here I am.

Gross. I'm sorry, but you're reminding me about how weird "swinging" can be. You get dragged along to hang out with this silent, awkward unattractive asexual man, while your husband spends god knows how long fucking a "perfect" woman in the next room? For 3 years? And only now are you getting upset?

With dave being not interested most of the activities between Zoe and Jim have happened while I've been out of town so not very often. they haven't been hooking up on a weekly basis or anything, but now that it is out in the open Jim and Zoe would like to see each other more regularly and start going on dates, spending more time together etc, so I need to figure out what my time alone will look like. I've been on a few "interview dates' so we'll see what happens there.

This is just shocking to me. You're all 62? Or older, if you're retiring at 67? And you've been so cowed you've gone along with these boring "swinging" dates where you've gotten no action, except maybe some unsatisfying FMF for a while? Is that right?

we are on the 'Freedom 55" plan. I'm 49, Jim 53 and Zoe 54. Thankfully we are in a position to really start looking at life after the rat race now and start planning for Jim at 55-57 to retire. He retires and so do I. So we are still pretty young in my mind (ok there are days my body feels 80 but such is life with aches and pains! lol) We are not doing as much of the detailed planning except for making sure that we are in a financial position to be able to make decisions in a couple of years. I know I need some time to process all this. In all of the talks Jim and I have had the bottom line is I'm not opposed to exploring Poly, but seriously, these are the people i get to try and work at it with? I know he can't help who he has feelings for, and deep down I do like her as a person, however they are not the ones I would have chosen. I know I don't have to have a relationship with them at all and it's my choice if i do or don't. I just feel I'm letting myself (mostly), and Jim (a little bit) down if I don't honestly try.

It might be worth mentioning to your therapist what this 5 year old has been doing all these years. Maybe you had to repress her 60 years ago when the sexual abuse happened. You had to sit and be quiet and behave while adult men did bad things to you?

My sexual assault happened when I was 20. I was roofied by an acquaintance at a bar in Manhattan and woke up hours later in New Jersey, beaten from head to toe, and raped in, i'm sure, many ways. Don't remember a thing thankfully, except for them, (yes more than one man,) dumping me in the bath to wash off evidence. So I get a little freaked out when I feel I'm not in the 'Know" as I have no idea what was done to me, were there pictures... you get the idea. so yes its a trigger and i am working on that with my therapist. this is also why i like the swing clubs. Women are in control there and any one who touches without consent gets tossed and banned.

I'm glad I was able to help. Keep up the good work.

Lol not sure I would say good work, but HARD work. I've been reading lots about this and all of them say its hard work. so true. I feel like I make progress and then something happens and Jim and I are back into major talk mode. although they are becoming easier and easier to navigate, we both are needing to have a few days of just "normal." or "not talking about this every waking moment" days. and it's not me that starts all the talks so I am grateful that Jim is working so hard with me.

And yes, you are helping me, very much. I am very grateful and appreciative of the time you spending responding to me. It's nice to have a place and people who understand all of this. I don't really have many friends that would get this or be able to offer good advice on this subject, as they are all monogamous. Thank you.

 

[Magdlyn]

OK, so you all are a bit younger than I assumed.

And you weren't raped as a child, but as a very young woman. Nonetheless, rape or other sexual assault is extremely traumatizing. I was sexually assaulted several times as a teenager myself. It made me very jumpy.

Nonetheless, you mentioned an inner 5 year old. It's worth looking at why you think it's childish behavior to object to things you find unacceptable.

Just because you and Jim and Zoe are all going to try and retire at about the same time, more or less, does not mean that you all 4 need to plan your retirement finances "together." Legally, you and Jim are not bound to Zoe or Dave.

If Jim and Zoe, having been pretty much partners now for 3 years, want to plan to be together for the foreseeable future, one way or another, and Jim wants to also plan to be with you, that can all be worked out gradually. Take your time, and make sure to speak up for what you want.

My long term live-in partner and I have been together 11 years, and she's been with her OSO for 7 years. She's worked out a schedule where she splits her time between us about 60/40%. That works for all of us. Gradually she and I, and her OSO and she, have been working out financial arrangements. She and I are more established in our accounts than she and her bf are, but they are evolving their own management of funds.

Have you read Opening Up? I have not read it, but I've heard great things about it. It probably addresses finances and other legal issues in polyamory. Check it out. It might help you, Jim and your therapist understand more about transitioning from swinging/casual sex to full polyamory.