Doomed relationship? Should I give up?

S

Sekhmet99

New member
Greetings everyone,

I'll put the TL;DR version up here just so no one is scared away:
I'm (probably) mono, I have a poly partner who cheated twice, he hasn't been great at following rules/making sure I'm comfortable, I feel physically ill imagining him with others, I feel partially responsible for the second cheating because I'm not always the best communicator. Should we just go our separate ways? Am I too focused on the negatives/not trusting enough?

Full post below:

I lean toward the monogamy side of the spectrum but my partner identifies as poly. He came out about three years ago when he announced that he cheated on me with two other men. I tried to forgive him and establish some rules for moving forward, e.g. he had to ask my permission before physical intimacy, tell his date upfront about our relationship, etc. On his very first "open" date he did not follow the rules and I almost broke up with him. I tried to forgive him but things have been very turbulent since then. I can never seem to let go and be vulnerable around him. He loves to bend rules and not establish/follow systems in general, but I accept that this is a part of his personality (one that is at times very attractive since I often fear stepping out of line). He did say on multiple occasions, however, that he would tell me if he felt like cheating so that we could talk and he would never do that to me again to me.

Fast forward to last week when he revealed he cheated on me yet again recently. Things hadn't been good for us, admittedly: we are doing long distance and I became emotionally distant from him. Before the second cheating we were in a period where I forbade him from pursuing other romantic contact and he complained about my lack of affection toward him. I explained that this was because I was anxious about our relationship and also the thought of him being with other people makes me physically ill.

As a side note I find him immensely hypocritical about his feelings on polyamory: I slept with someone once while we were together (with his full knowledge and consent) and he felt so uncomfortable that he said he wanted to go on a "break" (which I had to beg him not to do). Then I went on a date with someone else (again with his full knowledge and consent) and he refused to kiss me when I got home. Since then I have refused to see other people because I don't want to make him jealous or uncomfortable--it's just not worth it to me. The thing is, why doesn't he feel the same? Why won't he respect my comfort zone like I do his and just stop seeing people?

We love each other very much and have a lot in common, but it's hard for me to feel like I can trust him anymore. I feel like he doesn't understand what it means to maintain trust and I'm worried moving forward that I will always feel sour about ... well ... everything. Why won't he bend more? Why won't he try to walk hand-in-hand with me? Should I give up and go on my way? It's tragic as we have been together for 6 years but I feel very much like he has thrown me by the wayside for his own selfish pursuits. I told him recently in no uncertain terms that if he had just listened to me more and disciplined himself to respect the rules/re-build trust after the first cheating, things could have been very different, but that because he didn't I've had a hard time being intimate or vulnerable around him because I'm always afraid of being hurt.

The thing is I always feel like, when there are issues, I'm looking how to problem-solve and work to come together, and he is more, "Well if it is meant to be then it will work out. If not, I will be sad, but we will both find happiness once again," which doesn't make me feel so hot. I know that I'm not a perfect person. I get obsessive, I can be withholding of affection, etc. So should I just accept his flaws? Maybe I wasn't clear enough about how his behavior has impacted me? I feel a bit like if I break up with him that I'm giving up so much good in our relationship simply because I'm not willing to tolerate discomfort or I'm too focused on negatives/anxieties and that if I relaxed about everything I would realize that he actually does care about me, that he'll stick around no matter who else he meets, and that there's nothing to worry about. I don't know I'm rambling at this point...

What do you think?
 
To be blunt: He cheated. That isn't polyamory; it's dishonest, hurtful behavior. If he sees that as an okay thing to do and isn't willing to work with you to help you feel comfortable, there's no reason to keep him around. He isn't going to magically become the partner you want. He's going to continue being hurtful and dishonest as long as you allow him to do so.
 
@KC43
Thanks for responding. Obviously it is very dishonest and hurtful, especially since he knew how badly I was hurt/our relationship was damaged the first time. I know you say "as long as you don't let him" but I'm not sure how to not let him other than leaving ... ?

@nycindie
Thanks for responding. I have also had "DTMFA" thoughts but not only do I still deeply love and care for him but we get along so well. He still gives me that sense of "completing" me and a part of me can't help but feel like somehow, some way, we could work it out, though I fear constantly being frustrated with him or resenting him "getting away with" the double cheating. He's not a malicious or crazy person, just ... selfish. And I have my own flaws, which in some circumstances might include selfishness as well, but certainly they're not limited to that. He seems to accept/not care about my flaws to the degree I care about his, so maybe I'm too uptight? (I'm a bit anal retentive.)
 
I think you sound very confused.
I think you are accepting blame for his actions, which is not very loving to yourself, nor is it usefull to get clarity in the situation. On the other hand you want him to feel guilty, which is not a mindset suitable to working on problems. I suggest to focus less on blaming and find other ways to express anger and hurt.
I think every decission you make is valid, but you are too conflicted to make any.

How about taking your time to think and reasses the value you two have for each other? If your communication is filled with conflict, maybe you want to negotiate a pause to reasses on your own. Maybe you want to take say two weeks for each of you to reflect - expecting that at the end of the period each of you comes with a clear statement if you want to work on the relationship and a suggestion how.
 
I can tell you have been putting lots of intellectual and emotional energy into this relationship and dislike the thought of losing the positives of it. It just seems from you description of your feelings that you might be better off putting all that effort into coming to a more positive view or yourself rather than pouring it into trying to be positive about this relationship.

Regard the 6 years not as an investment that can be lost by changing things, but as a mostly pleasurable learning experience. You will not have failed if the relationship ends, all relationships end one way or another, but you will have failed yourself if you allow the relationship to tear you down and distract you from working on the things about yourself you would like to improve.

Perhaps while the two of you are long distance, you could agree to shift the relationship to more of a close friendship and then see where things stand when you are back in the same area? The fact that neither of you likes to think of your partner being with someone else makes me think that simply agreeing to see other people while you are apart will not work. It seems highly likely he will cheat on you, yet again, while you are apart if an attractive opportunity presents itself.

In or out of the relationship, if you work on valuing yourself, not needing an alter ego to 'complete" you and give you a sense of living the life the way you would like, then your life will improve.

Leetah
 
Yes, one more thought to second Leetahs post: Why are you long distance, after six years still? Is this a choise because you have other priorities, or because you are afraid of some of some disfunctions which would come out if you were living together, or is it rather something causing disfunctions?

Both unconfortable if when the other meets someone else ... did you discuss if your partner really identifies poly, or would he be happily monogamous if he had enough close contact with you?
 
Sekhmet99 said:
@KC43
Thanks for responding. Obviously it is very dishonest and hurtful, especially since he knew how badly I was hurt/our relationship was damaged the first time. I know you say "as long as you don't let him" but I'm not sure how to not let him other than leaving ... ?
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That was kind of my point. By staying, you're giving him tacit approval of his actions, and he's just going to keep doing the same thing because he sees that he won't have any repercussions from it. The only way you're going to make things work for you is to stop trying to make them work with him.
 
@Tinwen
Thank you for replying. I do accept SOME blame for his state of mind but certainly not for his actions; he and I recognize what he did was wrong and a violation of our agreement. It's not so much that I'm confused as I am conflicted: I adore being in a relationship with him in many profound ways but I also can't imagine getting over this feeling like unless I acquiesce to his requests that I simply won't be listened to. (And even if he appears to change this attitude I'm not sure how I will believe him.) We are long distance since June of this year for two reasons: 1) Job opportunities for us were not in the same location; 2) He and I got in a big fight and he said I should look for somewhere else to live. He claims to still be poly and that he could "control" his jealousy if I were to start dating others again, and also he said he (maybe) could remain emotionally exclusive with me, though I'm not sure I trust that.

@Leetah
Thank you for replying. Your message was validating, warm, and insightful. I really appreciate the effort you put into reading my story and writing your response. It's hard to think about focusing so much on myself--it makes me quite anxious, actually. I know I shouldn't need someone to "complete" me but I still do get the feeling that without him I have a wide, gaping hole in my life. This probably boils down to a whole mix of things that include but are not limited to: who he is as an individual, our shared history, my aversion to change/fear of the unknown, wanting validation from him to buoy my self-esteem, etc. I just want him to respect me in the way that I thought I had made clear, and the fact that he won't means that I can't give my all to him. I don't know how he doesn't understand this. We are doing couples therapy (long-distance) and will continue with our session this week but I'm pretty torn up. I feel like I *should* break up with him if I want to save myself future heartache and maintain some dignity, but then I feel like I'm being self-righteous, inconsiderate, and shooting myself in the foot by cutting out of my life someone who I share so much with. He's been my emotional guiding light in many ways, too, and without that light I feel lost and sad. I hear what you're saying about needing to feel whole by myself, but I'm not sure that means I should give up on my relationship...
 
KC43 said:
That was kind of my point. By staying, you're giving him tacit approval of his actions, and he's just going to keep doing the same thing because he sees that he won't have any repercussions from it. The only way you're going to make things work for you is to stop trying to make them work with him.
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Well, therein lies the conundrum. If I walk away, then the relationship is over, so I lose the relationship. But you're saying if I stay, then I'm tacitly saying it's OK to violate my trust? I guess it's not like I completely disagree, but I'm not sure if it's that black and white, though clearly you disagree, and perhaps I'm deluding myself. :confused: I guess you're saying that I should definitely break things off for good?
 
You needn't leave the relationship, the fact that both of you are willing to put the effort into long distance counseling is good. Continuing with the counseling should help you each get clear in your own minds where the relationship stands and whether it can be repaired. It distinctly needs repair if it is to become a good relationship again, I would say. If he abandons the effort or seems to just be giving lip service to fixing things, that would be another weight on the side of "This relationship is no longer working".

You should definitely consider counseling for yourself if you can manage it money and time wise. As you put effort into introspection, knowing yourself, caring for yourself, you can only become more yourself in a positive way. That should be a plus whether you stay together or not.

Leetah
 
I tend to be very cynical about relationships in general. For me, if someone cheats *once*, they're gone. I don't accept dishonesty, I don't accept blame for someone else's behavior, and I don't accept being treated in a way I perceive as poorly.

On the other hand, like I said... I'm cynical. I have reasons for being as bottom-line as I am. Other people who don't have those reasons might be able and willing to work with a dishonest partner who appears not to care about or validate their feelings.

Counseling might help you and your partner, but when I read your post I saw indications that he might be unwilling to change even with counseling. Maybe I read too much into what you said.
 
@Leetah
Well, over the past number of years, I have been in individual therapy on and off because of an anxiety disorder(s). Many of those years were also with medication but I'm now in a long stretch without individual therapy OR medication and I still feel okay, even with all of this relationship stuff. Trust me, it's been much worse in the past, so although it may seem like I'm depressed and anxious (which I am) and have underlying self-esteem issues (which I do), it's NOTHING like it was. Not even close. But I appreciate and will keep your individual therapy suggestion in mind just in case! In couple's therapy I will take your advice and also be keyed in to his understanding of how what he did affected me, and whether he is being proactive about working through things with me.

@KC43
It's okay to be cynical. I grew up in New York City so I'm very familiar with that haha. I somehow managed to adopt a non-confrontational, harmony-emphasizing, forgiveness-based personality type despite my environs, but it's not like it has always benefited me. (In fact I would say I've been easily gullible/manipulatable ever since I was young for this very personality trait!) I don't think you read too much into my post: clearly my (ex-?)partner didn't learn anything from the myriad of conversations we've had over the years about how hurt I was about his first cheating. I know we love each other, truly, but I'm not sure if that means we are good as romantic partners. It's brutal for me to type that/read it back, and I feel a shroud of darkness start to envelop me and the wolves of loneliness chew on my heart when I think of cutting him out of my life for good. So I'm in a very difficult place. I don't know how I could be happy on the other side, i.e. if we broke up. Even though logically I can tell that that sounds ridiculous, it still FEELS that way. And I really do care for him. He's wonderful in a lot of ways! He's just selfish. So I'm not sure whether or not he can manage his innate selfishness to prevent me from getting hurt in the future. I fear the answer is no and if that is the case then the question becomes whether I am willing to accept being hurt or change myself for him.
 
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Sekhmet99 said:
Greetings everyone,

I lean toward the monogamy side of the spectrum but my partner identifies as poly. He came out about three years ago when he announced that he cheated on me with two other men. I tried to forgive him and establish some rules for moving forward, e.g. he had to ask my permission before physical intimacy, tell his date upfront about our relationship, etc. On his very first "open" date he did not follow the rules and I almost broke up with him. I tried to forgive him but things have been very turbulent since then. I can never seem to let go and be vulnerable around him. He loves to bend rules and not establish/follow systems in general, but I accept that this is a part of his personality (one that is at times very attractive since I often fear stepping out of line). He did say on multiple occasions, however, that he would tell me if he felt like cheating so that we could talk and he would never do that to me again to me.

Fast forward to last week when he revealed he cheated on me yet again recently. Things hadn't been good for us, admittedly: we are doing long distance and I became emotionally distant from him. Before the second cheating we were in a period where I forbade him from pursuing other romantic contact and he complained about my lack of affection toward him. I explained that this was because I was anxious about our relationship and also the thought of him being with other people makes me physically ill.

As a side note I find him immensely hypocritical about his feelings on polyamory: I slept with someone once while we were together (with his full knowledge and consent) and he felt so uncomfortable that he said he wanted to go on a "break" (which I had to beg him not to do). Then I went on a date with someone else (again with his full knowledge and consent) and he refused to kiss me when I got home. Since then I have refused to see other people because I don't want to make him jealous or uncomfortable--it's just not worth it to me. The thing is, why doesn't he feel the same? Why won't he respect my comfort zone like I do his and just stop seeing people?

We love each other very much and have a lot in common, but it's hard for me to feel like I can trust him anymore. I feel like he doesn't understand what it means to maintain trust and I'm worried moving forward that I will always feel sour about ... well ... everything. Why won't he bend more? Why won't he try to walk hand-in-hand with me? Should I give up and go on my way? It's tragic as we have been together for 6 years but I feel very much like he has thrown me by the wayside for his own selfish pursuits. I told him recently in no uncertain terms that if he had just listened to me more and disciplined himself to respect the rules/re-build trust after the first cheating, things could have been very different, but that because he didn't I've had a hard time being intimate or vulnerable around him because I'm always afraid of being hurt.

The thing is I always feel like, when there are issues, I'm looking how to problem-solve and work to come together, and he is more, "Well if it is meant to be then it will work out. If not, I will be sad, but we will both find happiness once again," which doesn't make me feel so hot. I know that I'm not a perfect person. I get obsessive, I can be withholding of affection, etc. So should I just accept his flaws? Maybe I wasn't clear enough about how his behavior has impacted me? I feel a bit like if I break up with him that I'm giving up so much good in our relationship simply because I'm not willing to tolerate discomfort or I'm too focused on negatives/anxieties and that if I relaxed about everything I would realize that he actually does care about me, that he'll stick around no matter who else he meets, and that there's nothing to worry about. I don't know I'm rambling at this point...

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I think, very honestly, that you need to walk away, right now. And, you should get into counseling for yourself.

Just like putting more money into a bad investment only means you lose more money, putting more time into a bad relationship means you are just spending more time in a bad relationship. I am sorry you hurt, and I've been through the long-term breakup thing. It sucks.

You say you can't "let go" or be "vulnerable" around him. That isn't you being unreasonable. It's you reacting to have been repeatedly SHOWN that he isn't trustworthy, he is selfish and self-centered, and that he entirely disrespects you. Not "letting go" is a completely reasonable self-defense mechanism when presented with people like this. He has, as far as I can tell, not actually done a damn thing to earn back your trust, instead wanting you to just forget it and sweep it under the rug. That doesn't work. Ever. And, to top it off, he's already showed you it doesn't work--he cheated yet again.

You are not responsible for his cheating. No one is ever responsible for someone else cheating. You can own your part in your relationship issues, which you seem to be willing to do. But, cheating is a choice. And, frankly, usually the easiest (and almost always the stupidest) choice. He could have chosen to go to counseling with your or on his own, he could have chosen to communicate with you as you requested, he could have chosen to end the relationship with you. The choice he made, all by himself, was to cheat. That isn't your decision, so stop taking any blame or responsibility for it.

Stop listening to his words. Words are cheap and easy to say. Listen to what his actions are telling you--those are the honest parts of the relationship. And they are saying, quite loudly, that he is not going to be the partner you would like him to be. Wishing he would be won't help. And, you may never figure out why he won't/can't/whatever. Closure isn't something anyone can give us--it's something we have to give ourselves. Realistically, he probably can't even tell you why he is the way he is. What is clear is that not only are you incompatible, but he is unlikely to be a healthy partner for anyone right now.

It's painful to end a long-term relationship, but you will get over it, though it will certainly take time and there will be very difficult days. You will not have a permanent hole in your life if you don't allow one to exist--there are many, many fulfilling things in life to explore, and many amazing people to meet. What it will give you is a chance to repair and heal yourself, work on the insecurities that make you feel you must have someone to "complete" you, and perhaps find a relationship with someone(s) who show you the respect, love, and values that exist in a healthy relationship.

Trite as they may be, there are three sayings I live by in relationships:
"Love someone for who they are, not the illusion of who you hope they will become."

"I do not want to be with someone who needs me. I do not want to be with someone I need. Need takes choice out of the equation. It's infinitely more meaningful to be chosen every day than to be a utility in someone's life."

-and-

"You cannot have my awesome. I have spent my whole life becoming this awesome. Get your own awesome. Then we can be awesome together."

Get out of this unhealthy dynamic, so you can be your own awesome with authentic someone(s) who choose each other.
 
A non-cynical response from me, at least in this paragraph (and a long-ass response as a whole; sorry about that): You can't change yourself for *him*. You can only change yourself for *you.* A change made for someone else, if that's the only reason you're making it, doesn't stick and can lead to more pain and resentment than if the change hadn't been made.

If *you* believe you need to change something, go for it. But if you're only doing it to keep him... he doesn't deserve that from you after what he's done.

As far as the pain of loss, I'm beyond familiar with that. Beginning in July 2014, S2 became a huge part of my life. I saw him regularly. Spent nights with him, something I hadn't done with any other partner since the poly thing began. He and I got to know each other's kids, and took Country and his sons on "excursions" together. He helped me with my writing. He taught me to play bass and even suggested starting a band--and recorded a couple of songs with me--solely because I told him it was one of my childhood dreams. We pretty much thought with the same brain. I've never felt as close to anyone as I did to him; for want of a better term, he was my soul mate.

There were problems. Sometimes he flaked on responding to texts. Sometimes I didn't hear from him when he said I would. As time went on, he started feeling as if he'd gotten too close to me too fast and began emotionally withdrawing--while telling me he wasn't doing so, everything was fine. Even when he admitted he was pulling back, he said it was only because he was afraid of getting hurt and because he had a lot on his mind. He said the only problem involving me was his fear that his ultra-conservative employer and ultra-Catholic mother and siblings would find out he was dating a married woman.

And then in June, he said he didn't feel any "romantic passion" for me and wanted to "downgrade" to platonic. He said it was because of stress he was under from his impending divorce (he and his wife had been separated for over a year, but neither of them had gotten around to actually filing papers because it was a very amicable split) and from work. He said once he got through those things, we would "re-upgrade." I didn't want to go through it, but I had promised him I would try never to hurt him and that as he went through the divorce I would do whatever he needed me to do--and so I agreed to the downgrade because doing otherwise would have meant breaking those promises.

Over the course of the summer, he admitted my anxiety attacks played a role in him not wanting to maintain a relationship. He said friendship was easier. He said he wasn't closing any doors between us, but more and more often he talked as if our relationship was over--while still insisting he wanted to "re-upgrade" after he got his other stuff straightened out.

And then at the beginning of August, he told me he had a date with a woman he'd been introduced to by mutual friends. Three days before that date, he insisted he hadn't made any decisions, and that he couldn't decide whether he wanted her or me--but he also slipped up and said a couple of things that implied he had already made the decision, and I wasn't it. The day after the date, he made our break-up official.

We didn't talk for a few weeks, then reconnected to try to build a friendship. (And on that day, he told me I was the one person he would call his soul mate despite his unwillingness to sustain our romantic relationship.) But his new girlfriend didn't want him to be friends with me, so she sabotaged it. Between that and the things he told me about her, I believed she was being emotionally abusive and controlling toward him, and I had to make the unbelievably painful choice to cut contact with him again because if I'd stuck around, I would have told him my perception of her actions, and he would have taken that to mean that she'd been right when she told him I was trying to break them up.

It's been three months since the breakup, just over two since we tried to reconnect. I still sometimes wake up forgetting that he and I aren't speaking. I got great news about a book he'd helped me work on and picked up my phone to text him before I remembered that I couldn't do that. I don't have a band anymore; I have myself pretending to be a band and wishing to hell I had my guitarist. There are so many aspects of my life that he was entwined with, and I haven't disentangled all of them yet. On the other hand, I now have days when I don't even think about him, and I've moved on to new relationships in which I don't feel the fear that they'll turn out like him.

So yeah. I have a pretty good idea of how you would feel if you ended your relationship. It would suck ass. But that pain would eventually fade. You would find someone who is honest with you and validates and respects you. If you stay, part of you will always wonder whether he's going to cheat again. Every time you try to talk to him about a problem or your concerns, you're going to be afraid he'll brush you off or blame you for the problems. The pain might fade in and out, but it will never fully end because you will always be face to face with the cause of it. I also fully understand anxiety disorder (I have it) and low self-esteem (decades of emotional abuse and bullying left me feeling like the most worthless piece of shit on the planet and like everything bad that happened was my fault and I deserved it; I still have days when I feel that way, but they're far fewer now)... but you do deserve to be well-treated, and he isn't treating you well.
 
There is no such thing as an incomplete person. That you feel you would be incomplete without him tells a lot. You need to stop looking for outside validation and start looking at how to validate yourself.

The only way others will respect you is when you respect yourself.

You are not broken. You are whole. You just listen to a story you tell yourself. So, cut that out. Advocate for you, and people will come into your life who respect and enrich you.

You don't need him, really.
 
Thank you, everyone, for your care and consideration about my situation. All of your insights have been quite useful. I don't have a crafted response right now as I am just processing everything you all are saying and trying to keep non-relationship matters in my life on track (plus I just came down with a cold, go figure). But I really, genuinely appreciate the support and advice, and I will write back if I have any additional thoughts/questions that I would like to share with this fantastic community.

@KC43 , thank you for opening up about your experiences with S2. I'm sure it still stings a bit to rehash the details but I am proud that you are moving forward with your life and also about your progress with your anxiety issues. It was meaningful for me to connect with you via your experiences.
 
Hi Sekhmet99,

If you and your partner are long-distance anyhow, maybe the thing to do is dial the relationship back a few notches. Make it more casual, if that makes sense. Methinks there is too much commitment and attachment right now. Certainly there seems to be too much for your partner ...

I perceive that you are very much hurting, and that makes me sad. None of your options are great, are they ...

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
GreenAcres said:
Closure isn't something anyone can give us--it's something we have to give ourselves. ..... You will not have a permanent hole in your life if you don't allow one to exist--there are many, many fulfilling things in life to explore, and many amazing people to meet.
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Amen, sister mama.

We are never, ever, ever, ever, ever dependent on another person for our peace of mind and our self respect. EVER.
 
nycindie said:
There is no such thing as an incomplete person. That you feel you would be incomplete without him tells a lot. You need to stop looking for outside validation and start looking at how to validate yourself.

The only way others will respect you is when you respect yourself.

You are not broken. You are whole. You just listen to a story you tell yourself. So, cut that out. Advocate for you, and people will come into your life who respect and enrich you.

You don't need him, really.
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This 110%
 
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