Duggar Schadenfreude

Magdlyn

Magdlyn

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Staff member
Anyone else enjoying the ongoing Josh Duggar scandals?

First outed as having molested no less than 4 of his sisters, and one other girl, when he was a teen.

Now it is reported he had 2 paid Ashley Madison accounts. AM is a site for married people to find someone to have an affair with. He paid almost $1000 for his accounts.

He may also have an OK Cupid account.

He is in his late 20s, married since 2008, has 4 children, and is (was) a paid lobbyist. ..."the executive director of the Family Research Council, a conservative lobbying group in D.C. which seeks 'to champion marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, the seedbed of virtue, and the wellspring of society.' "

http://gawker.com/family-values-activist-josh-duggar-had-a-paid-ashley-ma-1725132091

The freaking cult members, the Duggar family, have annoyed the crap out of me for a decade, and it always sickened me to see their "wholesome" reality show on TLC year after year.

Their fall has begun! This is just their oldest child. 18 more to go.
 
Enjoy might be the wrong word, but yes, I've never believed that they were are 'good' as they made themselves out to be. Self righteous ness never pays off.
 
I am interested in reading about it, but I don't enjoy it - I'm sad and disgusted. To champion yourself as a paragon of virtue and holier than everyone else, when you KNOW you are not is just ridiculous. I feel so sorry for his sisters and for his wife, who are all brainwashed into this cult, and will have to forgive this as just a minor failing of the flesh and a test from God. Ugh.
 
Well I feel sorry for all the 19 Duggar kids. It sucks growing up in a cult that teaches the shit their cult teaches about "God," and keep women barefoot and pregnant, doesn't teach science, and represses their sexualities to this extent.

I've hated that Michelle and JimBob Duggar ever since I found out about them nearly a decade ago.

And now Josh has confessed to being "the biggest hypocrite ever," addicted to porn and cheating on his wife, and has the effontery to ask for prayers. Gross pig.


Josh Duggar says he's the "biggest hypocrite ever" -- fessing up to having a secret addiction to porn ... and admits he's been cheating on his wife while living a "double life."
Duggar issued a statement in the wake of reports that his name was one of the millions exposed in the Ashley Madison hack ... essentially confirming that he used the cheating website to have affairs.
"I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife."
"I am so ashamed of the double life that I have been living and am grieved for the hurt, pain and disgrace my sin has caused my wife and family, and most of all Jesus and all those who profess faith in Him."
Duggar continued ... "I brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions that happened when I was 14-15 years old, and now I have re-broken their trust."
"The last few years, while publicly stating I was fighting against immorality in our country, I was hiding my own personal failings."
"I humbly ask for your forgiveness. Please pray for my precious wife Anna and our family during this time."


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/08/20/josh-...heating-biggest-hypocrite-ever/#ixzz3jNh6fQMH
 
Look, this might not be real. Information can be stolen and used to set up accounts like this to embarrass people. Yes, they are a horrific bunch (the adults anyway) but they would be the type of people targeted for this treatment.

The Ashley Madison thing may turn out to be an absolute disaster for anyone who wants a measure of sex positivity, openness, and internet privacy in the culture. I'm really fearful about it.
 
Ah, so it's confirmed. Eh, they will just ask 'forgiveness' from God and their community, be forgiven and it will all be swept under the rug, just like him molesting his sisters for years. I've seen that dynamic happen with all sorts of religious right hypocrites. The voters even re-elected a Senator who admitted to hiring prostitutes - he also asked for forgiveness. (Sen. Vitter from Louisiana, I believe.)
 
What's wrong with hiring a prostitute?

I don't see this guy as any worse than anyone else who abuses and molests people. I don't think the religious aspect puts a worse spin on it, per se, abusers often ensure they have some sort of "power" in the community they prowl in.

I can't understand why we have this thread yet not a Bill Cosby thread, or a Woody Allen thread. They are all abusive people who used their status and power to normalize their actions. Exactly the same thing.

I also find it disturbing for someone to say they "enjoy" hearing about people being abused because they don't like the abuser. I get that the OP really hates religious people, but to resent them so much you "enjoy" hearing about when they hurt people isn't schadenfreude, it's just sick...
 
MightyMax said:
I can't understand why we have this thread yet not a Bill Cosby thread, or a Woody Allen thread. They are all abusive people who used their status and power to normalize their actions. Exactly the same thing.
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The Woody Allen issue is debatably very different and old news. A thread on Bill Cosby would be interesting, but I think a lot of people don't want to go near the Cosby thing because:



1. He was such a beloved comedy icon. Huge! Many people adored him and his beloved characters, so the revelations/allegations of rape are heartbreaking all around.

2. He is/was such an enormous champion of education in the black community, which is something we can all get behind. Yes, he's been preachy about behavior, but most people would say he's had helpful things to say about community responsibility, ideas that elevate all people and don't come at the expense of others like religious dogma tends to.

3. He had an extraordinary and long career which he earned again and again and again. He broke several color barriers in the entertainment industry and he remained relevant throughout the decades. Many of his accomplishments had nothing to do with barriers at all. The revelations of the serial rapes are truly stunning and unexpected.

4. You'd be hard pressed to find an American who didn't love or deeply admire Bill Cosby before this. He's a very different figure in American culture than a reality show character and people (in general) truly felt attached to and thus greatly saddened by Cosby in an authentic way. They can feel distant and unemotional about a reality show character with whom they only have a passing familiarly. Cosby is seen as a human being, while the Duggar guy is seen as a character. It's always easier to judge a character than it is to judge someone you have loved. I do hear people talking about Cosby in my everyday life, but the tone is always much more serious than when I hear talk of the other guy. I don't get the feeling that anyone is happy about the Cosby rape revelations, but I do sense outright glee about the Duggar case. Magdlyn certainly isn't alone in her self admitted shadenfruede.
 
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MightyMax said:
What's wrong with hiring a prostitute?
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The information on Josh Duggar does not say he hired a prostitute. He had 2 accounts with Ashley Madison, an online paid dating service for people to find other people to have affairs with. (Married people having affairs= cheating, something our board he does not support);.
I don't see this guy as any worse than anyone else who abuses and molests people. I don't think the religious aspect puts a worse spin on it, per se, abusers often ensure they have some sort of "power" in the community they prowl in.
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Well, I didn't say he was worse, now did I?
I can't understand why we have this thread yet not a Bill Cosby thread, or a Woody Allen thread. They are all abusive people who used their status and power to normalize their actions. Exactly the same thing.
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Feel free to start one on Bill Cosby. He acted criminally. Not just hypocritically. Josh Duggar doesn't have a lot of power, he is just a cult member and paid DC lobbyist who champions hatred against immigrants, gay people and transpeople. As a whole, his family has come out against civil rights for everyone that isn't straight, white and their brand of Christian.
I also find it disturbing for someone to say they "enjoy" hearing about people being abused because they don't like the abuser. I get that the OP really hates religious people, but to resent them so much you "enjoy" hearing about when they hurt people isn't schadenfreude, it's just sick...
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No, I don't "really hate religious people," but I am not a big fan of mind control cults. The Duggars are a pet peeve of mine. I am not sure who the "abuser" is you are referring to... Oh, you mean when he sexually molested 5 girls in their own beds? Yes, that is gross and sick, and so is the cult's way of recommending, or forcing, the abused girls to forgive their abuser and blame themselves.

Now the eldest Duggar spawn has been found cheating on his equally brainwashed wife, mother of the four children she gave birth to in their 6 years of marriage.

JimBob and Michelle Duggar, pumping out 19 kids, parading them in front of TV cameras for a decade, with those fake smiles plastered on their faces, using and forcing the older kids to raise the younger ones while they got busy making the next one in their bedroom... obviously the kids were very under-supervised. I know the parents also beat the kids with rods and trained them like you'd train a dog.

My friends and I wanted to save those kids years back. 19 kids all with J names. We had a "Free Jinger" campaign for a while. Here are a couple articles about their cult. Feel free to dig for more information using the title of the founder of the cult, Bill Gothard.

http://jezebel.com/5939635/the-duggars-are-an-evil-cult

http://gawker.com/the-creepy-fundamentalist-homeschool-cult-that-trained-1706969994

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/26/duggars-homeschooling-sex-abuse_n_7445238.html
 
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opalescent said:
The voters even re-elected a Senator who admitted to hiring prostitutes - he also asked for forgiveness. (Sen. Vitter from Louisiana, I believe.)
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I don't see the need for forgiveness here. If he was indeed cheating, then that's a matter between him and his spouse, but certainly nothing for which he needs public forgiveness. Hiring a sex worker is legal in some places (smart Nevada) and should be legal and regulated everywhere. The physical safety and health care of sex workers would dramatically improve if it were.
 
Magdlyn said:
The information on Josh Duggar does not say he hired a prostitute. He had 2 accounts with Ashley Madison, an online paid dating service for people to find other people to have affairs with. (Married people having affairs= cheating, something our board he does not support);.
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There was a post upthread expressing surprise that a politician who hired prostitutes would be re-elected.
 
The prostitute comment was in response to this:

The voters even re-elected a Senator who admitted to hiring prostitutes - he also asked for forgiveness. (Sen. Vitter from Louisiana, I believe.)
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I don't see why they should not re-elect him just because he used a sex worker.

I didn't say he was worse, now did I?
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The fact that you started this thread and not one on the several other people who are in positions of power and have abused people says that you think this is worse.

Feel free to start one on Bill Cosby.
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I didn't start this thread. I am asking you why you would start this one on the religious guy but not one on the actor, or the school teacher, or the director. The onus is somewhat on you to explain why this warranted a thread but those other people don't.

I am not sure who the "abuser" is you are referring to.
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The subject of this thread... or did you forget why you started this thread and what it is about?
 
@MightyMax,

There is nothing wrong with hiring a prostitute. However the Senator in question is one of those religious right assholes against contraception, abortion, protections for LGBT people, including marriage, against decriminalizing sex work, and on and on. I condemn him for his rank hypocrisy and unwillingness to rethink his political stances in light of his actual behavior. Probably would not have been re-elected but he could have become an authentic person instead of a liar, panderer to people's worst instincts and continued hypocrite.

Look, I'm not thrilled about the glee either. But I completely understand it. You see Josh Duggar and Christians like him are actively out to get me and people like me. It is personal even though I have never met the man. He helped lead the Family Reseach Council (go read their site, get sick and come back when you're ready). The FRC has actively encouraged hatred towards anyone not straight, white, their type of Christian, native born (in the U.S.) and male. They have done everything in their power to make life worse for anyone not like them and their words and actions have helped create an atmosphere where violence against 'others' is encouraged. Gay men and transwomen bear the brunt of this violence in public but it is everywhere. And the FRC gleefully and willfully contributes in words to this atmosphere. Do they beat anyone personally? Probably not. But they help create a world where violence and hate toward people different from themselves is encouraged, tolerated and excused.

So when someone who is out to get me, as Josh Duggar is (he is unlikely to change because of this but will get 'forgiveness' from his supporters and go on his merry way), then yeah I get being a bit gleeful about the public revelation of their hypocrisy.

Mags will ably defend herself I'm sure. But she does not hate Christianity. She is critical of it. There is a profound difference between hating a religion and being critical of it. And being critical of Christianity does not make one a hater of religion. There are so many more religions than Christianity out there! Stop conflating religion and Christianity. Christianity is a religion, it is not the entirety of religions.

I'm critical of Christianity. I think it's innate structure and beliefs can lead to it becoming toxic for many people. The Christianity of the religious right is an active force for evil in my opinion. I don't believe all Christians are 'like that' but too many are. And the ones who are not like that generally do not openly stand up for people like me and saying that the religious right is dangerous and that this more peaceful, accepting way is what Christianity should be recognized for. If you are Christian, MightyMax, go talk with your fellow Christians about the problems in your community and stop wasting time being triggered by someone who is merely critical of Christianity. The most damaging, hateful people towards Christianity lead churches and congregations. Direct your efforts there.

I don't believe other religions, no religion, or spirituality of whatever stripe is better than Christianity. I believe there are different paths that can be good (or bad) for those walking those paths. We need to be careful in choosing and living our beliefs because those beliefs have repercussions for ourselves and the people around us.
 
opalescent said:
@MightyMax,

There is nothing wrong with hiring a prostitute. However the Senator in question is one of those religious right assholes against contraception, abortion, protections for LGBT people, including marriage, against decriminalizing sex work, and on and on. I condemn him for his rank hypocrisy and unwillingness to rethink his political stances in light of his actual behavior. Probably would not have been re-elected but he could have become an authentic person instead of a liar, panderer to people's worst instincts and continued hypocrite.

Look, I'm not thrilled about the glee either. But I completely understand it. You see Josh Duggar and Christians like him are actively out to get me and people like me. It is personal even though I have never met the man. He helped lead the Family Reseach Council (go read their site, get sick and come back when you're ready). The FRC has actively encouraged hatred towards anyone not straight, white, their type of Christian, native born (in the U.S.) and male. They have done everything in their power to make life worse for anyone not like them and their words and actions have helped create an atmosphere where violence against 'others' is encouraged. Gay men and transwomen bear the brunt of this violence in public but it is everywhere. And the FRC gleefully and willfully contributes in words to this atmosphere. Do they beat anyone personally? Probably not. But they help create a world where violence and hate toward people different from themselves is encouraged, tolerated and excused.

So when someone who is out to get me, as Josh Duggar is (he is unlikely to change because of this but will get 'forgiveness' from his supporters and go on his merry way), then yeah I get being a bit gleeful about the public revelation of their hypocrisy.

Mags will ably defend herself I'm sure. But she does not hate Christianity. She is critical of it. There is a profound difference between hating a religion and being critical of it. And being critical of Christianity does not make one a hater of religion. There are so many more religions than Christianity out there! Stop conflating religion and Christianity. Christianity is a religion, it is not the entirety of religions.

I'm critical of Christianity. I think it's innate structure and beliefs can lead to it becoming toxic for many people. The Christianity of the religious right is an active force for evil in my opinion. I don't believe all Christians are 'like that' but too many are. And the ones who are not like that generally do not openly stand up for people like me and saying that the religious right is dangerous and that this more peaceful, accepting way is what Christianity should be recognized for. If you are Christian, MightyMax, go talk with your fellow Christians about the problems in your community and stop wasting time being triggered by someone who is merely critical of Christianity. The most damaging, hateful people towards Christianity lead churches and congregations. Direct your efforts there.

I don't believe other religions, no religion, or spirituality of whatever stripe is better than Christianity. I believe there are different paths that can be good (or bad) for those walking those paths. We need to be careful in choosing and living our beliefs because those beliefs have repercussions for ourselves and the people around us.
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I come from a Christian background, yes, but I don't identify as a Christian. It's ridiculous that you are talking to me, a gender fluid, female-bodied, pan and poly individual about not being accepted. I am not the only person who has spoken about the blatant religious bashing on here. I am not the only person to have noticed it. I have even seen that it has been brought up long before I knew this site existed. However, it is generally accepted on this site so I simply asked for clarification about why this is thread worthy but other abusers aren't. Angelina actually explained that rather well, I thought.

There is a fine line between being critical and being hateful, and the OP crosses that fairly frequently in my opinion. It was her that said it isn't only Christians that she feels this way about, that is why I said "religious people" or whatever rather than Christians.

Enjoy enjoying stories about people being hurt and abused.
 
I don't see religious bashing here. I see criticism, at times not particularly polite or perfectly phrased to avoid giving offense. I see an unwillingness to be deferential to religion which I support. Religions get enough public support and unthinking acceptance here in the U.S. already. (I know other regions may have different experiences of religion in the public sphere.) We will just have to agree to disagree.

I was speaking from my own experiences about why I get the feelings of schadenfreude. I don't share them because I think being gleeful about this will change nothing so it's a waste of time for me. I know you fit many of the categories Josh Duggar has advocated against. I was not telling you how to feel, just explaining my own reactions.
 
opalescent said:
I don't see religious bashing here. I see criticism, at times not particularly polite or perfectly phrased to avoid giving offense. I see an unwillingness to be deferential to religion which I support. Religions get enough public support and unthinking acceptance here in the U.S. already. (I know other regions may have different experiences of religion in the public sphere.) We will just have to agree to disagree.

I was speaking from my own experiences about why I get the feelings of schadenfreude. I don't share them because I think being gleeful about this will change nothing so it's a waste of time for me. I know you fit many of the categories Josh Duggar has advocated against. I was not telling you how to feel, just explaining my own reactions.
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Just to be clear, I don't think the posting of this thread is religious bashing. I do think the OP feels it is thread-worthy because of her views about religion. I don't think it would have been posted had he not subscribed to a faith as strongly as he did, regardless of what abuse he carried out. Hence the absence of a Bill Cosby thread, or anyone else who has systematically and habitually harmed in similar ways.
 
MightyMax said:
Just to be clear, I don't think the posting of this thread is religious bashing. I do think the OP feels it is thread-worthy because of her views about religion.
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And you have ignored opal's recommendation to not conflate "religion" with "Christian cult which abuses anyone not white, straight and male." The founder of the Duggar's cult was forced to step down when 34 female cult members accused him of sexual abuse. I do not know why you support that, or the behaviors of Josh Duggar and his parents.

I don't think it would have been posted had he not subscribed to a faith as strongly as he did, regardless of what abuse he carried out.
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And you also choose to ignore the post on the differences between the Cosby case and this one.

By the way, the schadenfreude I am experiencing is not directed towards Josh, but towards his parents, who "trained him up" to believe and act as he does. And I am looking at the other 18 kids, to see what is further revealed as they become more worldly and less protected and naive. Especially the one or two who statistically must be gay.

It sickens me that Josh asks for prayer for his poor wife and family. Ugh.
 
I don't think you read that post. That post basically said that the reasons that people don't think it's as bad is because they liked the guy and he did good for people. I'm sure some people feel like that about the Duggars. Not because his crimes were less evil or anything like that. They feel guilty for having liked him and so choose to ignore what he has done.

I really don't think their religious orientation has anything whatsoever to do with how bad the crime(s) was/were and how much sympathy his family deserve. You obviously do. I think the innocents in this should receive positive thoughts and prayers if you are into that.

I am against abuse, period. Not just abuse by people with a religious affiliation. It's all the same to me and as someone who moves in atheist circles, I know it happens just as frequently in those communities too. It's about predatory people finding a place where they can prowl without disturbance. Any group of people that can be described as a community offer that to some degree.
 
IMO, the difference is that there's a sense of comeuppance with the Duggars where there isn't with Cosby. People wanted to see them fall from grace, where nobody wanted or expected Cosby to (except for the women who were abused by him). Looking at the schadenfreude aspect, there's nothing in the Cosby case to point at and go, "Ha ha!" - there's no enjoyment of that fall, because there was nothing there for people to want to cut down, no desire to knock Cosby off his pedestal. We wanted to keep him there... so much so, that we pretty much made the first set of allegations (when? in the '90s?) invisible and kept on our merry way.

I saw a comment somewhere, after the whole Cosby thing came out, where they likened it to finding skeletons in Mister Rogers' closet - it was that painful and *wrong*-feeling.

As for the Duggars, personally, I think the whole thing will just serve to polarize the religious right away from the rest of the world even more. Even more of a reason to destroy the evils in this world if one of their own were taken in. It proves that we can't handle temptation, therefore it must all be removed.

But that's just my cynical opinion. I'm not a fan of religion invading my country's leadership, textbooks, and overall scientific progress, and I chafe at how it keeps trying to do so. (Radical Christianity here, Radical Islam elsewhere - radical whatever - it's the same damned thing)

Feh. I'll go shake my cane at some kids on my lawn now...
 
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