Ethical poly? Need advice!

[AlwaysGrowing]

Has a DNA test been done? She's lied about conception dates/pregnancy... what's to stop her from lying about paternity? In Tree's position, I would want to make sure the child is actually mine before moving forward with trying to get Rose and child back in state.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

Has a DNA test been done? She's lied about conception dates/pregnancy... what's to stop her from lying about paternity? In Tree's position, I would want to make sure the child is actually mine before moving forward with trying to get Rose and child back in state.

I agree and assume this is his hesitation behind telling his extended family about the woman and child. He says he is sure it is his child.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

I was in a similar situation back in the day... This is the time to go evidence based, be more stoic and make a solid well thought out decision, which benefits you and your future.

Sorry to hear you experienced something similar and that it may not have went well in the long run. Thank you for sharing for your wisdom. I’m interested in anything else you’d advise or want to share with me regarding this situation.

 

[MoPoly]

I believe most of us, if not all of us, desire to be in a trusting and honest relationship.

I do agree most people would answer ‘yes’ to that. However, it does assume a certain amount of self-awareness and personal responsibility. There are many chaotic people who just don’t know what trust and honesty look like.

The circumstances you have experienced are consistent with far less honesty, trust, integrity, which speaks to once lack of character these are often deeply and grained aspects that ones personality.

And Rose, Tree’s other partner, has consistently shown she cannot be trusted to be honest in either words or actions.

It’s not to say that a person cannot change, because they can if they put forth the relentless effort

Self-awareness is the first step to change.

True commitment from such individuals is often hard to come by. These are not necessarily bad people. They simply have difficulty being truthful and honest in relationships.

Sometimes their behaviours go back to the relationship examples given by their own family of origin; sometimes they have a personality disorder… There are many reasons why some people are this way. But that doesn’t prevent them leaving a trail of debris in their wake, unfortunately.

However, @Lotusflowerbomb is completely right to distance herself from Rose. It’s sad that this has cost the relationship with Tree, her long-term partner and father of her children, but admirably she’s negotiated the co-parenting. Tree also didn’t sound ‘bad,’ just poor on boundaries. He’s been put in a difficult position by Rose, as he didn’t intend for her to become pregnant, but now has to maintain some type of relationship with her to be in his son’s life. However, he could have established a co-parenting agreement without muddying everything into an even bigger mess.

@Lotusflowerbomb sounds like the only one here who is honest; has a clear grasp of boundaries & ethical behaviour; can clearly see what’s going on; knows what is healthy for her and her children and is willing to act on it.

Lfb, you sound very sane and sensible. I’m sure your feelings will still be very raw, but keep that clarity and your principles. x

 

[bampirevat]

Aside from the fact that Rose is not trustworthy, it seems as if she's trying to snatch Tree for herself in a mono relationship. She lied about her pregnancy to keep him with her (she might've assumed that now that Lotus has an infant, Tree wouldn't give her attention) and now is trying to get closer to him again, including moving in. I don't believe that the "temporary" moving in with Lotus's family would have ended up being temporary. It's good that @Lotusflowerbomb set boundaries straight.

While Tree doesn't seem like a bad person, he definitely doesn't have a spine.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

I believe most of us, if not all of us, desire to be in a trusting and honest relationship. The circumstances you have experienced are consistent with far less honesty, trust, integrity, which speaks to once lack of character these are often deeply and grained aspects that ones personality. It’s not to say that a person cannot change, because they can if they put forth the relentless effort. Sadly, many individuals continue down the road of manipulation, lack of truthfulness, in general dishonesty. True commitment from such individuals is often hard to come by. These are not necessarily bad people. They simply have difficulty being truthful and honest in relationships. A happy long-term life is often determined by the quality of the decisions we make. Most of us know when we are making a less than good decision.

100%. When asked how the pregnancy timeline could’ve shifted 5 months, there was no accountability or honesty, and instead more lies about not understanding birth control/chemical pregnancy. Essentially reasons that could not make sense for such a great mis-timing.

There has also been a lie about getting half a million from a sexual harassment settlement, and how the money will be “signed over to Tree for safe handling,” a case which is not on record or verifiable with the city courts and has been on going for over 12 months now (but apparently still in mediation).

All of this is to speak to your point of “many individuals continue down the road of manipulation.”

My attempts to shed light on the gravity of these instances with Tree just end up making me look jealous of their relationship. My concern is far beyond that at this point.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

Aside from the fact that Rose is not trustworthy, it seems as if she's trying to snatch Tree for herself in a mono relationship. She lied about her pregnancy to keep him with her (she might've assumed that now that Lotus has an infant, Tree wouldn't give her attention) and now is trying to get closer to him again, including moving in. I don't believe that the "temporary" moving in with Lotus's family would have ended up being temporary. It's good that @Lotusflowerbomb set boundaries straight.

While Tree doesn't seem like a bad person, he definitely doesn't have a spine.

My biggest apprehension was that it would become a squatter situation and I was be manipulated (by Tree and Rose) against putting out not just the woman but the innocent child. I also have my own six children (14yo-1yo) and they are not accustomed to people they have never met moving into their home (safe space).

Not to mention the ask alone seemed purely opportunist, after not having spoken to each other in 5 months, of only knowing each other 11 months & only met in person once.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

There are many chaotic people who just don’t know what trust and honesty look like.

Thanks for your input on the situation. This point is one of my concerns.

Initially the intent was to peacefully merge families (believing the child was conceived unplanned). However, over time, many actions (and lies) by Rose pointed to creating an environment of mistrust, deception, jealousy, and competition.

This contradiction is something I recognized early on. I even tried to set a boundary that when her and I spoke, I didn’t want to discuss anything regarding Tree (not going to trauma bond over relationship issues with him). However, that did not last, and at any point of contention between her and I, she would unnecessarily bring up Tree in the conversation. That’s what led to me distancing myself from her at the beginning of this year (amongst other things coming to light).

While she may have Tree convinced that she wants to peacefully co-exist with him, I and our children - I recognized a long time ago that her actions do not align with wanting a peaceful blended family or for a peaceful transparent poly situation.

 

[LavenderLilacMauve]

I haven't read all of the responses on this post, so my apologies if I say something that has already been said.

To my eyes it seems as though Rose may have fabricated the pregnancy in the first place because they felt threatened by Tree's pregnancy with you. The fact that they later became pregnant and continued to lie about it would remove any shred of trust I had in them whatsoever. I can understand Tree wanting to remain in the child's life, but that they would entertain Rose after they lied about something like that just baffles me. Rose basically lied about being pregnant in order to trap Tree into a relationship that they may have remained in anyway.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

I can understand Tree wanting to remain in the child's life, but that they would entertain Rose after they lied about something like that just baffles me.

This also baffles me and makes me question who I know Tree to be. He is essentially continuing with a situation that was clearly manufactured, and his reasoning for being in a relationship with her is that he is trying to “make the best of the situation.”

Honestly, I believe he is waiting for the alleged six-figure settlement money that she claims she will sign over to him. Even though I don’t think it even exists, given the history of lies, thus far.

 

[LavenderLilacMauve]

This also baffles me and makes me question who I know Tree to be. He is essentially continuing with a situation that was clearly manufactured, and his reasoning for being in a relationship with her is that he is trying to “make the best of the situation.”

Honestly, I believe he is waiting for the alleged six-figure settlement money that she claims she will sign over to him. Even though I don’t think it even exists, given the history of lies, thus far.

It just sounds as though she's been bribing him to remain in her life. It doesn't say much about Tree that he would stick around for that.

 

[Lotusflowerbomb]

It just sounds as though she's been bribing him to remain in her life. It doesn't say much about Tree that he would stick around for that.

I agree. Besides the child, I don’t understand his reason for entertaining the orchestrated deceit from someone he “just met.” (As he describes it)
Sadly, It has negatively impacted our relationship and home life with our children.

 

[LavenderLilacMauve]

I agree. Besides the child, I don’t understand his reason for entertaining the orchestrated deceit from someone he “just met.” (As he describes it)
Sadly, It has negatively impacted our relationship and home life with our children.

I'm so sorry that you've had to experience this. I hope you find happiness in the future and that you and Tree can find some way to co-parent that doesn't cause you further pain.