He wants to try again

[just3]

Quick background and update for those who dont know... Hubs (S) suggested trying polyamory. I didn't want swinging, because I have to have emotional attachment before sex. He stated many times he didn't want anyone else. We talked about it for almost 2 years before I said ok.

I hooked up with my ex, whom I'd never stopped loving. 6 months later, he (my ex) decided that he couldn't live like this. He wanted me to himself, which wasn't gonna happen. He also didn't like others knowing about the relationship, another thing I refused to lie about or hide, so he called it off. We do still talk, but that's it.

Well after my ex left, S started acting like a jerk. Everything I'd opened up about with him was thrown in my face, like I was wrong. Then he set up a dating account to find himself someone, and hid it. When I found it, he lied. After I'd proven I'd found it, he finally admitted it. But then he did not speak to me for the next 8 months. Yes, 8 MONTHS we lived together, but didn't speak, except to ask what was for dinner and if the kids had behaved.

Finally, on our 13-year wedding anniversary, I told him I couldn't live like this anymore. I guess my saying I wanted a divorce was an ass kicker. He apologized and said he did it all out of spite. He was angry at me, but didn't know why. But he didn't want me to go, and decided to finally make some changes.

One was his job. For 10 years he'd worked at this one place, and each year was worse than the first. The last 6 years have been awful. So he started looking and found something that was totally out of the field he was in, and is now a lot happier there.

Two, communication. He now talks to me a LOT more.

Three, he's being a better dad. He's there for the kids more than ever. We even brought the kids back to be homeschooled.

Our relationship is almost back to where it was. A lot of the hold-up is me, because I'm nervous it will happen again, even though he swears it won't. He says he now knows what to expect and that he wont ever betray me like that again. (Lying is one of those things I CAN'T stand.)

A couple weeks ago, he asked me to find myself a bf again. I told him that was something I was afraid of doing because of the fear he will use things against me again. It's very hard for me to open up. So I keep saying I don't know. He finally convinced me to put my Ok Cupid back up. I did.

Most people seem to just want to screw a married chick, which annoys me. It's hard to find someone who understands I have kids that will come first. I dealt with this the last time. One guy pestered me to no end, even wanted me to skip out on one kid's stuff to meet. I canned that one quick.

S and I talked a lot about the kind of relationship we both had in mind. What he wants, and I agree, is a V-type relationship, with me as the hinge, a polyfidelitous relationship. We both want someone who will be friends with S, as well as a friend, lover and possible spouse to me. How hard is this??? It doesn't seem to be the norm in poly relationships.

I tried dating after my ex left.. My luck, I started talking to someone who said he wanted that type of relationship, but he ended up being into child porn, and is now on the run from the law-- NOT what I want to get involved in!!! That crap is freaky.

I don't know how to date. I have known my ex and S since I was 14. It just was.

I'm a stay-at-home, homeschooling mom. I don't get out much. Where do you find people to fall in love with? Any suggestions or insight on what to do next?

 

[GalaGirl]

Our relationship is almost back to where it was. A lot of the hold-up is me. I'm nervous it will happen again, even though he swears it won't. He says he now knows what to expect and that he wont ever betray me like that again. Lying is one of those things I CAN'T stand. A couple weeks ago he asked me to find myself a bf again. I told him it was something I was afraid of doing because of the fear he will use things against me again. It's very hard for me to open up. So I keep saying I don't know.

You do not sound enthused. It's great he's gotten a better job, is better with the kids, and is communicating with you now. But that is just behaving like a basic human being. It's nothing stellar, or extraordinary. After 8 months of unexplained spiteful treatment, that doesn't mean you are good to open yet!

Why jump ahead to dating problems? You have relationship problems with S still, maybe.

• He created an account and lied.
• He stopped speaking to you for 8 months out of spite.
• He was angry, did not know why, and did not want to investigate this with you.
• Was that anger thing ever resolved to your mutual satisfaction?
• It took you asking for a divorce for him to change a stinky job, do right by the kids, and talk to you like a regular person.

Why did all that happen? I don't get a sense of that in your post. Has all this just been swept under the rug now?

He behaved like a stone wall of silence from spite, then finally started acting like a basic human again, and that just made it all better? I am not hearing that the problems were actually addressed, talked about, or explained. You still feel emotionally unsafe and unsure.

Why does he want you to find a BF so bad? What are his reasons for that?
Is that the gateway to him having a GF? If he wants a GF, isn't it easier for him to ask you if that is ok?
What is the reasoning to open at this time?
What if you say, "Thanks, but no thanks. I'm done with polyamory. I just want you." Could he be ok with that? Could you?

Do you really want to open?

I'm not seeing that you have repaired you relationship well enough to open again and do it well. You aren't either, if you are posting here about it.

GG

 

[just3]

It's not that I'm not excited. I am just afraid that once again I will be treated like crap.

S said he got the dating account out of spite. He seemed to think it would make him happier during all the stress he was under. I still don't understand that one, since I was the one at home dealing with kids, activities, doctor appointments, school, my part-time job, and his job and stress.

He says he stopped speaking to me because he didn't know what to say. He knew he screwed up by lying, and didn't know how to fix it. So he just went day-to-day, hoping I would become less mad and talk to him. Instead I got madder, because I felt like he'd lied to me and it had become my fault. His refusal to speak to me was proof of that, in my mind. Of course, he said those 8 months were hell on him too. He admits to throwing me away and not knowing how to get me back.

He was angry about a lot of stuff and took it out on me. The sad thing is, the stuff he was angry about didn't even have anything to do with me. This has been dealt with.

I think when I said it was time to divorce, it was a kick in the ass to him. He knew I was serious. I can't live in the same house with someone who refuses to speak to me.

We had a scream fest that night. The next day, our 9-year old was taken to the ER, which ensued in a month of dealing with him. During that time, S and I started working together. He knew being afraid of change wasn't helping him. He complained about his job all the time. It was keeping his blood pressure pretty high. Hell, we couldn't have a decent weekend because of his stress. But he was afraid to change.

Honestly, for him to stop bitching and start doing is a major step. lol. He used to be really good with the kids, like he is now. But during that 8-month period, he wasn't a part of our lives. He withdrew out of it. The kids just kinda stayed away from him, we pretty much did our own thing, and he just sat there.

Believe me, after I asked for the divorce, I yelled a lot. He cried. I screamed.

He was, and is becoming again, my best friend. I have been friends with him for 20 years. He knows me better than anyone. He admits to screwing up something major. Like I told him, I would have gotten over the lie long ago. But when he quit talking, it just made me feel worse. I had to process everything alone, which, you know, when you do that, the problem can get bigger and bigger. I snapped.

Things were rough because I didn't want to believe him. I didn't want to listen. But he sat there and cried as I told him exactly what it did to me. I let him process that. I let out 8 months of frustration. And then I cried, which I hadn't done in months, because I'd become quite numb.

No, things weren't perfect. I still wouldn't let him touch me, because to touch, you have to trust.

He started doing little things. Sending me texts, leaving me notes, helping around the house. I could see he was trying. I was being the brick wall on it. I was more focused on our son, who spent the first week of S and me starting to talk at home injured. So he was my focus. But S actually dropped a lot at work to come take us back and forth to doctors. The next few weeks were easier.

I finally started to relax. But then my brain wouldn't let me. I was still scared of letting myself back out of the box I'd put myself in. Our son had to have surgery, and 2 days later we rushed him to the ER after he passed out from the pain.

Sad truth... having a kid going through something can bring you back together. It was still bumpy, but S was there for me to rely on again. It was slow going for awhile. But things are a lot better with us.

I have no idea why he wants me to find a bf. lol. I always thought I was completely messed up because I could never completely choose between my ex and him. I love them both, and have for 20 years. My ex is just not accepting of a relationship like that. S is ok with it, and wishes the ex would be too. He knows I have always struggled with loving them both.

I told him I wasn't sure about this again, because of my fear of going through the crap he did again. He swears it will never happen. He says that at first he'd had a false realization, which happened after my ex said he couldn't be like this anymore, and I'd started trying to date others. S was super ok with the ex, but wasn't as ok with the others. I understand that, because the others seemed unwilling to meet him. They just wanted to see if they could get into a married person's pants. It was very pathetic.

I would be willing to try again, but I just hate the dating game.

My relationship with S is a lot better. Honestly, I'm feeling a lot better about everything. I just guess I just have that fear that something will happen again with S. I'm wondering if anyone else has gone through stuff like this and been able to try again.

I keep thinking that maybe we didn't talk about it enough before. Maybe there was something we didn't hit upon. I don't know. lol. So I guess to try again, I don't want it getting messed up again. Maybe I'm expecting perfection and for things to work just so.

It helps reading others' experiences, but I was mainly looking for myself this time.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not blaming either one of you. I'm just sharing my POV as a stranger looking in.

I just have that fear that something would happen again with S. I keep thinking that maybe we didn't talk about it enough before. Maybe there was something we didn't hit upon.

Listen to your gut! I do not see a list of what you DID do to address it, other than mere talk. Talk is cheap if you don't understand emotional flooding and how to cope. It will happen again.

Basically, neither of you wanted to be the first to speak to get to clarity. You spent 8 long months enduring stupid.

You both sound kind of "avoidy" to me. Maybe you both have too much pride. Maybe you both expect mind reading. Maybe you both value the need to be "right," rather than the need to be in "right relationship" with your loved one.

He knew he screwed up by lying, and didn't know how to fix it. So he just went day-to-day hoping I would be less mad and talk to him.

He has clunky emotional skills. He does not articulate well. He avoids obvious things. He may not have elegant execution, but is he serious? He does not know that when you mess up, the thing to do is APOLOGIZE to the person you hurt? If he means he does not know HOW to apologize to you, teach him. "I like to be apologized to like this. Here are the steps on a list, hanging on the fridge."

I got madder, because I felt like he lied to me and it became my fault. His refusal to speak to me was proof of that, in my mind.

You may have been wronged, but if it goes on a while and you are unsatisfied where things are left, still waiting for apology that does not come, why not call him into account sooner, using "I statements" to be firm but fair, and move the thing forward again, so you can return to right relationship with each other? Something like...

"I want to call you into account for that thing. Why have I not received an apology? I am left feeling like the whole thing is my fault and I'm being punished. I need to know where we stand. I have the right to clear communication and constructive conflict resolution. I want to set an appointment to discuss this in full sometime this week. You can clarify your position then. Which day works for you? Friday would be best for me, but am willing to negotiate."

You would say this if you were my partner in my universe. Do you guys have any framework for how to be in right relationship with each other?

I do not understand why you turned his stress into the pissing contest. He reports he has stress. "I feel stressed."

Rather than saying, "I hear you have stress. Thanks for reporting how you are feeling. What do you need from me? How can I help you, S, in dealing with your stress management?" I hear you said, "What do you mean, YOU have stress? I am the stressed one, with X, Y, Z..."

In my universe, you have denied S the right to be supported and nurtured. Mr Clunky, who does not like to report or share his feelings-- how have you encouraged him to do more emotional sharing, and to sharpen his reporting skills, by shooting his clunky efforts down?

If you also needed some support and nurture for your stress issues, did you clearly communicate that, or did you just blow up at him? Were you expecting Mr Clunky to be a Super Mind Reader?

It is different to say, "Yes, I hear you are stressed. Me too! Shall we plan out some couple time to destress together then? Or are you thinking this time we create space/time so we destress as individuals in turn? How can we best help each other here to better handle our stress management?"

I think you are right to worry if he can take it emotionally or not if you (re) open, and if YOU can take it emotionally if his emotional response is clunky.

What have you guys done besides talk to address your communication areas and its weaknesses?

If you have not already, I suggest taking some communication classes would be a wiser investment of time. He can sharpen his clunky tools and feel stronger. You can feel more secure in his skills too, and not get dinged again. If you live in the USA, county extension offices usually have some relationship skills/life management-type classes for couples that are free, or low cost. Google yours.

I hope things improve for you both,
GG

 

[just3]

You are probably right on the avoiding. I did try to talk but the answer remained "I don't know" for 2 months. Then I gave up. After that, it was pride, and asking myself why should I have to be the one to say something first. That probably did make things worse.

As far as his stress, believe me, I have understood, tolerated, validated him, etc. Even he will agree to that. He finally admits to being a lot like his dad and that that needs to change. I have always supported him and validated him, except at that point. This was 5 months into his 12-hours a day/6-days a week schedule, so I shouldered everything. He was "too tired" to do anything else.

When he finally did talk to me, he apologized for putting us last. The best thing that happened was he took 8 months and thought, a LOT. He even apologized to the kids for being a jerk and not making time for them when he had it.

His one day off he was spending being stressed and grumpy, and I was left to explain to the kids he was just tired from working so much. And it was in that 8 months he realized I had always been on the back burner to him, that he always put himself first in everything. My feelings really didn't matter to him. I have always been the stay-at-home mom, who cooks every meal, cleans the whole house, does all his and the kids' laundry, etc. I'm also the one who takes on the odd jobs to pay the debts he racks up when he HAS to have something.

This is where a lot has changed. He took on a 2nd job after our huge blow up, and he paid on his mess-up, instead of me doing it again. This was MAJOR to me. He also found this new job, which was huge as well, because for 6 of the 10 years he was at the other place it was miserable for us, and we all dealt with it. He was scared of making a change, even though the old job had him completely hating everything. It was a shock to see him finally saying enough was enough.

For the first time in years, he asks me how I feel. It's taken some getting used to, but I kinda like it. He realized he just thought I could handle everything thrown at me and come out ok. But I'm not superwoman. This was a major step.

He made these attempts to bring us together, because I wasn't, I admit. I told him if he really wanted us to be together he had to stop taking me for granted. He spent years coming home to a hot dinner, a clean house, his clothes ironed. No, I'm not June Cleaver here, but I felt that was my job. I wanted him happy.

Those horrible 8 months taught us both that we both have to matter, not just one person. He helps with laundry and cleaning now. He cooks on the weekend. He's also showing our kids who started it, stating that all the stuff I did as "women's work" was actually work for the whole family. When he showed me he was really willing to bring back the closeness we had, I started letting go of the walls I'd raised.

I'm LOLing at the "clunky emotional skills." You are right. He's admitted it, as well. He didn't know HOW to apologize. So he actually apologizes more frequently now. I explained it like, Uhh, you apologize like I teach the kids: "I'm sorry for [...]." I also make my children say WHY they did it. I was mad because... so I did... or whatever. He's learning. But then again, he is just like his dad was. He was was taught how to apologize. So I forgive him there. lol.

We haven't let anything just sit since then. If one of us is having a bad day, we say that, and why the day is crappy. That way, if need be, we might go take some quiet time, because most the time that's what's needed. A hot shower, or just lay down for a few.

It doesn't stop the worry of it happening again. But we have been communicating a LOT more in the past 6 months than we have in many years. I mean, we talked, but not like this.

Yes, I need to watch my temper with him. We have been together as very close friends since we were 14. So we know each other well enough to push buttons. That was what hurt the most, when he did that. He knew me well enough to know that would hurt.

During one extremely emotional talk, he stated that he felt like a monster for doing that to me. He knew it would hurt and he did it anyway. I forgive him for this. I really don't think he will do this again. It just bothered me that that was the first time he'd ever lied to me about something major. Hell, he's lied about purchasing things. lol. But that I'm used to. (He doesn't do this anymore, to clarify. lol)

I didn't mean to start the thread to share how awful things are for us, because they aren't now. He and I are actually closer now. I guess I was just looking for ideas for how not to worry it will happen again. I don't think it will. I'm just trying to make myself not worry so much.

 

[GalaGirl]

I did try to talk but the answer remained "I don't know" for 2 months.

That is a possible emotional-flooding symptom, shutting down.

You can google more, but to start:

http://www.simplemarriage.net/flooding-stop-to-start.html
http://portlandrelationshipinstitute.com/Artcl__Emotional_Floodin.html

You both have to get a handle on how to deal with emotional flooding BEFORE you add a new player who can trigger floods (on purpose or not.) Otherwise you'll all drown.

For the first time in years, he asks me how I feel. It took some getting used to, but I kinda like it. He realized he just thought I could handle everything thrown at me and come out ok. But I'm not superwoman. This is a major step.

When he showed me he was really willing to bring back the closeness we had, I started letting go of the walls I'd raised.

It sounds like you guys have made big changes. That is awesome!

Why not stop and smell the roses a bit and enjoy them a bit before changing up the mixture again? Adding another dating partner ups your polymath tiers.

I'm not saying do not open ever, just trying to get a sense of why NOW is best time to open the marriage again. What would a new person add to this wonderful new relationship? What would they take away? Time management and division of labor in the home (now that you JUST got that in better balance!) would change. How would it change?

I guess I was just looking for ideas of how not to worry it would happen again. I don't think it will. I'm just trying to make myself not worry so much.

If you plan to open, how would you "tricycle" it, so you can still back off safely if one of you gets triggered?

Do you have a framework for how to be in right relationship, or help you get back to it?

Is your communication now solved and solid? Has this new communication method been reality-tested on something ELSE already, like a crazy work thing, or a crazy school PTA thing? How did you get through the craziness? With grace, or with more of the old dysfunctional behaviors?

Have you covered morethantwo.com and serolynne?

For me, I broke the "too much information" wall on our old V. My bf/husband and I covered past relationships. We covered our relationship. We looked at what we would have liked to go back in time to change or experience instead. We figured out what we want to look for next. For example, I suck at sharing intimacies, so I deliberately made several dates with friends to reveal private things. I "tricycled" that behavior with trusted friends first.

A couple weeks ago, he asked me to find myself a bf again. I told him it was something I was afraid of doing because of the fear he would use things against me again. It's very hard for me to open up. So I keep saying I don't know. He finally convinced me to put my OK Cupid back up.

Work with S to decide what your "reality testing" things could be. How long will you be testing before actually opening? A few weeks seems premature.

Maybe let him read this thread about him. Ask him to read other posts on this forum.

Do the "what- if" thing-- if this happened to us, how would you be? How would you expect me to be? You can't predict all situations, but the main thing is not the question being asked, it is how things get resolved.

On my end, if my DH responded or reacted poorly when things were calm, when he read a forum post that wasn't even about us, if we opened, and it was us for real, and he went from crazy to BALLISTIC, I'd be at fault then, for playing with a known fragile person. He'd also be at fault for saying he was fine with opening when he really wasn't. But I'd have to own my side. I let us open when I KNEW he wasn't ready.

 

[IndieSolo]

Just3, it sounds like you two are headed in a good direction, but still in the healing process, which takes time. But it does seem like you are both making efforts. I am not one for making lists and contracts, but I think if you are both working toward the same thing, a joyous, fulfilling, mutually-supportive and respectful marriage, if you keep talking and learning from each other, you will be alright.

I suspect he is encouraging you to find a new bf out of guilt over his behavior, and he wants you to know he is on your side now. If you find someone else, and get involved in another relationship, that might mean in your husband's eyes that you've forgiven him. Still, just because he is telling you to do it doesn't mean you have to run right out and look for someone. Nobody wants to be a project for you to undertake! Take your time, assess how you feel, keep building your foundation. You could do a tag search for the word "foundations" for threads here about them.

Don't embark upon trying to meet someone else until you feel fully able and ready to trust S.

 

[lovefromgirl]

Is your husband still working 72-hour weeks? That puts a giant burden on you at home. I am not sure where you would be able to fit a third person into your lives, since he's working all the time and leaving you minding the children by default.

When all three of us were working full time, even without kids, even without extra hours, we had to make sure our schedules fit together. I don't know how I coped with overnights when I had to work the next morning, to be honest. I need more sleep than I get when he's here, and we're waking up at the crack of dawn.

I do not want, I need ten hours sleep for every twenty-four, minimum. Caffeine triggers panic attacks in me. You wonder how I ever held a job? So do I...

I'm much more flexible now that I'm unemployed, which has helped on the poly end of things, but as a trade-off I cannot afford to go halves on a fun getaway. Necessary expenses don't vanish when you're sacked. The cats still have vet bills. I still have doctors to see, and now I pay for them out of pocket.

So if you're considering opening your relationship, put those practicalities high on your list. Where is the time? Where is the money? Almost every question boils down to one of those. "Where will my OSO and I spend time together?" = "Where is the money?" if the answer is not "Here at home."

"When will I see my OSO?" is obviously "Where is the time?" Dates with the kids in tow do not count. I'm talking about quality adult-only time. I'm sure you can guess why. [cough] [blush]

Also, there is quality versus quantity time. Having one partner for funsies and one partner for all the chores just doesn't work. Each partner needs quality, non-chore-oriented time with you. As relationships evolve, how this happens might change. If your OSO becomes welcome in your home, he could offer to take the kids for a night while you and your husband have a date. He could do some chores with you to free up time for you and your husband to go do something fun. These are just examples, of course, but I hope you see where I'm going.

 

[just3]

S is no longer working those long days. It's been nice. His job used him, didn't give raises for years, and then gave very very tiny ones. It was insulting. He took all that super personally, but wasn't willing to change it. He started this new job a month and a half ago. It was horrible when he worked those hours. I did the best I could until our problems started.

Yes, I do feel like I am still healing some days. It's that part of me that says S is my best friend. I felt betrayed, and like he didn't care. Essentially I felt like I lost my best friend. That was a hard pill to swallow. I took those 8 months to rethink myself. To find myself. That was the blessing that came out of that time.

It had been a long time since I'd put myself first. Even when I had the bf, it was all about pleasing and making everyone happy. I ran myself ragged. I have 2 kids who are both involved in activities, and I school them. During the months of crap, I didn't school them, but I was also the carpooler for the neighborhood. Sometimes I have a hard time saying no, lol, even when it makes me run like crazy. Now I say no more often, because I do have to think about my sanity, as well. I can tell S how I feel, and not feel bad. I used to either not say anything, or apologize when I did.

He's also undergone changes. Over these last 6 months, instead of being a jerk when he's stressed, he actually says he's had a bad day, and/or asks if it's ok to take a few minutes before getting in the middle of the chaos with the kiddos. lol.

And he actually did home improvement stuff without getting irritated! YES, another major turn!

He's not a jerk or anything. He's actually a really good guy who just this year has learned to SAY how he feels, rather than just being a grump.

It was super hard for me to say I wanted out, because the guy who didn't speak to me about anything for all that time was not the guy I had known and loved for 20 years. I'm used to the lil things, but the way he was acting was not him. Even he stated this.

S and I have been making time for each other, which hadn't been something important until a few years ago, when we realized our relationship had been put on hold, between kids, work, etc. We need to do it more often.

I try too hard to make sure everyone is taken care of, my ex included (and we don't even have a sexual relationship, and haven't for a year and a half). I agree that everyone needs special time. I just don't want to rush into anything. I agree S and I are still healing with each other. I dont want to jump into a major relationship just yet. Meeting people would be nice. I don't just jump into bed. I want a real relationship with the person, just like I have with S.

I appreciate everyone's insight and thoughts, so far. You have made me think. I will be looking into a lot of the suggestions with S. Keep the advice coming, I am reading every bit of it.