Highly sensitive person and poly

I never even heard nor read the term "Cluster B" before this thread, and have no idea what it means, yet somehow you all are talking about it as if it's a very commonplace terminology. I am just stymied by all the categorizations in use today sometimes. I am still not convinced of the benefits of such categorizing.
 
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I never even heard nor read the term "Cluster B" before this thread, and have no idea what it means, yet somehow you all are talking about it as if it's a very commonplace terminology. I am just stymied by all the categorizations in use today sometimes. I am still not convinced of the benefits of such categorizing.
Cluster B is the section of personality disorders that tend to make the most trouble for people around them - hence they are more talked about. They are also called the dramatic personality disorders. From Wikipedia on personality disorders:

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders)
  • Antisocial personality disorder: a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, lack of empathy, bloated self-image, manipulative and impulsive behavior.
  • Borderline personality disorder: pervasive pattern of instability in relationships, self-image, identity, behavior and affects often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.
  • Histrionic personality disorder: pervasive pattern of attention-seeking behavior and excessive emotions.
  • Narcissistic personality disorder: a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.

You don't have to "agree" to the disorders. They are medical terms used in psyciatry after psycological testing and observation. If used on someone who is not diagnosed, one should add "traits" to the description (as the same traits could have a different source than a personality disorder). We should not go around diagnosing each other. But we should also not be afraid to ask if maybe that person who we and others have such difficulties engaging with might have some of the traits.
 
I never even heard nor read the term "Cluster B" before this thread, and have no idea what it means, yet somehow you all are talking about it as if it's a very commonplace terminology. I am just stymied by all the categorizations in use today sometimes. I am still not convinced of the benefits of such categorizing.

I didn't know what a Cluster B was until I dated one, and I suspect that's true of most of us who know the term. We were left hurt and confused by someone's seemingly irrational behavior, so we sought answers. We recognized their patterns (Cluster B personality disorder have a fairly distinct set of behaviors in a romantic relationship.) Many of us had a HUGE "aha moment" once we realized what we were dealing with. The psychiatric community certainly believes Cluster B Personality Disorders are real. No offense, but I'm a little surprised anyone would summarily dismiss something they admit they don't know anything about.

HSP, on the other hand, is NOT a recognized psychiatric diagnosis. It doesn't have to be, as it doesn't mean anything's "wrong" with a person. But for those of us for whom it resonates, it can constitute a huge "aha moment." I suppose it's the same as realizing you're polyamorous, or bisexual, or an introvert. Such categorizing can be helpful in a "know thyself" kind of way. Just knowing I'm not the only person who goes through life with such intensity of emotion has been extraordinarily reassuring.

I told the new guy I'm seeing about being an HSP, and he looked it up. He's an introvert, but definitely not an HSP, and we were able to talk a bit about why I move through the world the way I do. Believe me, for those of us actually experiencing being an HSP, knowledge is power!
 
I never even heard nor read the term "Cluster B" before this thread, and have no idea what it means, yet somehow you all are talking about it as if it's a very commonplace terminology. I am just stymied by all the categorizations in use today sometimes. I am still not convinced of the benefits of such categorizing.

Like LoveBunny said, I think a lot of us learn about them after we date or have our lives seriously disrupted by them. Or are raised by one of them, in my case.

Two of my therapists independently came up with a possible diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder for my mom. One therapist I had in high school, the other as an adult. both met my mom and had sessions with my mom (ostensibly to talk about me, but actually to suss her out). Diagnosing her as BPD gave them (and me) a lens to view her behavior through that made it make sense and also gave me coping strategies for dealing with her.

For instance, my mom had an absolute meltdown over me wanting to take French as my language class in high school, instead of Spanish. According to my therapist at the time, part of the way that my mom's mental illness manifested itself was that she couldn't conceive of me as a separate person from her, with separate likes, dislikes, and interests. As I am alike in my mom a lot of ways, it was extremely confusing, because some innocuous decisions I made (in terms of hobbies) she absolutely loved, praised, and bought me lots of things for but other equally innocuous decisions were met with screaming, accusations that I was trying to hurt her, and taking away of gifts and privileges.

I think for anybody, with any person in their life, that kind of dynamic would be extremely hard to understand. As a dependent, being able to figure out what was behind my mom's behavior was absolutely crucial for me to be able to have a childhood with as little emotional (and physical) violence as possible.

To me, that's a really big benefit.

There is a downside when people either use their diagnosis to try to behave badly without consequences. There is also a downside if people diagnose the people around them with various mental illnesses and ONLY interact with those people within the framework of the mental illness. In other words, they stop seeing them as people who can grow and change and learn and ONLY see them as their diagnosis.

I can't speak for everybody, but I don't allow people who have a diagnosis to let that mean that they can get away with unacceptable behavior without consequences. I also don't treat people as diagnosis ever. I treat them as people. I use the diagnosis as a means to have better communication with them (as possible), but I don't assume that if they act like they have BPD, they have EVERY behavior listed. I still deal with the person in front of me. I'm just better informed as to HOW to deal with that person in front of me.
 
To clarify, I am not dismissing these concepts - I am asking questions to understand what people mean when using these terms, and why they are referenced so, so often on these boards. No one in my life ever describes people with these terms. I am skeptical about some of them, like HSP, because it seems like every week someone identifies some set of quirks, traits, habitual behaviors, patterns of thinking, etc., and call it a syndrome, disorder, and so on, making it a thing. It feels like people want to drop everyone they know into some kind of slot with a label. Personally, I am grateful for the times I was called "too sensitive," as it made me look at my responses and find other ways to respond to challenging situations. My mother's life would have been so much more rewarding for her had she not let her hypersensitivity to things dictate her actions. I am wary of labels because they are so easy to hide behind, and I just put that out there as one perspective. I strive to be present and aware, and it is being present that helps the most in handling what life throws me. I can't use a cookbook of strategies to live my life, telling me what to do with all these categories/ingredients. I can only see and respond to what *is*.
 
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I think the danger lies when a person uses a categorization such as HSP to excuse problematic and unreasonable actions.

Also when people use these and other diagnoses to discredit someone they are unhappy with. I was discussing this with a friend the other day and he said "oh yeah, that person who has a hundred crazy exes but the guy they have now is a dream come true... till next week when he loses the plot too.."
 
Just to make sure people are clear - Highly Sensitive is not a disorder it is a personality trait like Optimistic, or Introverted. The Sensitive in HSP basically means almost always close attention to one's surroundings and thinking deeply about things (there is more to it than that though). Not being emotionally hypersensitive. There is research supporting the concept but I suspect it is not widely accepted yet.

Leetah
 
To clarify, I am not dismissing these concepts - I am asking questions to understand what people mean when using these terms, and why they are referenced so, so often on these boards. No one in my life ever describes people with these terms. I am skeptical about some of them, like HSP, because it seems like every week someone identifies some set of quirks, traits, habitual behaviors, patterns of thinking, etc., and call it a syndrome, disorder, and so on, making it a thing. It feels like people want to drop everyone they know into some kind of slot with a label. Personally, I am grateful for the times I was called "too sensitive," as it made me look at my responses and find other ways to respond to challenging situations. My mother's life would have been so much more rewarding for her had she not let her hypersensitivity to things dictate her actions. I am wary of labels because they are so easy to hide behind, and I just put that out there as one perspective. I strive to be present and aware, and it is being present that helps the most in handling what life throws me. I can't use a cookbook of strategies to live my life, telling me what to do with all these categories/ingredients. I can only see and respond to what *is*.
Now you are not talking about recognizing a personality trait, but the strategy on how to cope with it. You are describing times where someone told you you took something to personal and you agreed. Sometimes that strategy is useful. At other times it is not. People who are HSP can use good or bad strategies to cope. Staying present is a good idea but if you don't even know the basics of your own psyche that will be very hard to do.
 
To clarify, I am not dismissing these concepts - I am asking questions to understand what people mean when using these terms, and why they are referenced so, so often on these boards.

For me, it's shorthand for a group of bad behavior/psychological traits that make people who have them (and are in denial about having them) potentially abusive, coercive, and controlling. It's easier to say "Cluster Bs" than "people who are narcissistic, controlling, abusive, etc"



No one in my life ever describes people with these terms.

Maybe you're lucky enough to have people in your life who don't have many dealings with those kinds of people. Or maybe they use other terminology.

Or maybe (I gently and respectfully suggest) given the response that you've had here to these concepts, they don't talk about them around you. I have a particular friend who I'm overall very close to, but there is one specific thing that I never talk to him about, because we completely disagree about it to the point where I almost threw him out of my house the last time the topic came up. Other than that one thing (which I think we're both VERY sensitive to, but in different ways, because of our childhoods), he's a fantastic friend. But if that one subject ever comes up and he's around, I'm changing the subject or leaving the room until it's no longer being discussed.



I am skeptical about some of them, like HSP, because it seems like every week someone identifies some set of quirks, traits, habitual behaviors, patterns of thinking, etc., and call it a syndrome, disorder, and so on, making it a thing. It feels like people want to drop everyone they know into some kind of slot with a label.

*shrug* totally your right to feel that way. Words are funny. The way that people react to words are interesting.


Personally, I am grateful for the times I was called "too sensitive," as it made me look at my responses and find other ways to respond to challenging situations.

It's wonderful that that was a positive experience for you. For me, I'd say 90% of the time when someone told me I was being "too sensitive", it was because they wanted to manipulate me or bulldoze over my needs, and were battering at me emotionally by trivializing my feelings so that I'd do what they wanted. A very unpleasant experience.


I am wary of labels because they are so easy to hide behind, and I just put that out there as one perspective. I strive to be present and aware, and it is being present that helps the most in handling what life throws me. I can't use a cookbook of strategies to live my life, telling me what to do with all these categories/ingredients. I can only see and respond to what *is*.

I don't see anybody disagreeing with you here on any of that. Or hiding behind a label, or painting someone else with a label.

I do my best to see and response to what *is*, although the concept of what *is* is also in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? I can learn additional information about how to interact with people who appear to have personality disorders in a way that still validates their humanity, but gives me a framework (that includes respectful ways to walk away from future interaction with them) for how to interact with them. My exact interactions are still tailored to the individual in front of me. But I'm fortified with additional information that seems to make those interactions - if not more successful - then at least less emotionally harmful to me.
 
Maybe you're lucky enough to have people in your life who don't have many dealings with those kinds of people. Or maybe they use other terminology.
They use other language that is more common. For example, I have a friend who has been known to say,"My late husband was a total narcissist," and an ex work colleague who would say, "I've dated so many narcissists." Most people I know would describe someone as self-involved, self-centered, conceited -- never would they use the term "Narcissistic Personality Disorder." I only see people referred to in that way here, and it's become a thing. I'm just not ready to jump on the jargon bandwagon.

I'm reminded of an episode of The Young Ones, where Ric says to Neal, "I couldn't get any sleep last night. Why were you stomping back and forth in your room, ringing bells?" and Neal answers, "Haven't you heard? Sleep gives you cancer!" You know, like what are they going to tell us to watch out for next? Being "Highly Sensitive?"

I don't see anybody disagreeing with you here on any of that. Or hiding behind a label, or painting someone else with a label.
I didn't say anybody here was doing any of that. I'm not arguing. I'm sharing my opinions and a bit of my bewilderment.
 
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They use other language that is more common. For example, I have a friend who has been known to say,"My late husband was a total narcissist," and an ex work colleague who would say, "I've dated so many narcissists." Most people I know would describe someone as self-involved, self-centered, conceited -- never would they use the term "Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

You should do some research on the topic, because NPD doesn't refer to just typical self-centered, selfie-taking "narcissistic" behavior (like gazing at yourself in the mirror a lot) and now suddenly they're calling it a disorder. No. True NPD is much more akin, (and I believe is a requirement for) sociopathy. My ex, who I believe had NPD, simply could not understand that other humans have an inner world apart from her perceptions. It was eerie. She literally could not conceive of being wrong, and if you called her out on something, it would upset her whole sense of herself and she'd fly into a shaking, righteous rage. If she did something that was hurtful, she honestly couldn't understand why it would bother you when it didn't bother her that she engaged in the hurtful behavior. True NPD's have low or no ability to empathize, and their romances follow a pattern which never, ever, ever changes: Idealize, devalue, discard. This isn't just conceit that some shrinks are calling a pathology. It's damage to psyche caused by a shut-down of emotional response in early childhood.

It's not like people are just sitting around declaring everything a syndrome or disorder, that's ridiculous. Nobody is saying everyone who is kind of sensitive is an HSP, no more than every kid who spaces out in class has ADD or every person who is socially awkward has Aspergers. That doesn't mean ADD, Aspergers and HSP don't exist. It's easy to be skeptical if you've never encountered someone with Aspergers or NPD or whatever cluster of traits we're describing. I'm just not sure that it's helpful or respectful to people actually dealing with it.
 
You should do some research on the topic, because NPD doesn't refer to just typical self-centered, selfie-taking "narcissistic" behavior (like gazing at yourself in the mirror a lot) and now suddenly they're calling it a disorder. No. True NPD is much more akin, (and I believe is a requirement for) sociopathy. My ex, who I believe had NPD, simply could not understand that other humans have an inner world apart from her perceptions. It was eerie. She literally could not conceive of being wrong, and if you called her out on something, it would upset her whole sense of herself and she'd fly into a shaking, righteous rage. If she did something that was hurtful, she honestly couldn't understand why it would bother you when it didn't bother her that she engaged in the hurtful behavior. True NPD's have low or no ability to empathize, and their romances follow a pattern which never, ever, ever changes: Idealize, devalue, discard. This isn't just conceit that some shrinks are calling a pathology. It's damage to psyche caused by a shut-down of emotional response in early childhood.

It's not like people are just sitting around declaring everything a syndrome or disorder, that's ridiculous. Nobody is saying everyone who is kind of sensitive is an HSP, no more than every kid who spaces out in class has ADD or every person who is socially awkward has Aspergers. That doesn't mean ADD, Aspergers and HSP don't exist. It's easy to be skeptical if you've never encountered someone with Aspergers or NPD or whatever cluster of traits we're describing. I'm just not sure that it's helpful or respectful to people actually dealing with it.

But as a layperson, assuming one is a layperson and not a psychiatric or psychological professional, is it morally right or socially acceptable to assign a diagnosis on someone else based on one's biased (because one is emotionally invested in said person or the situation) perceptions of their behavior? Is it okay to give them any kind of label based on your understanding of a book you read or an internet article?

I've seen when this sort of rumor spirals out of control. There is a guy that I know back home who was ostracized from his local poly meet up for having an untreated "personality disorder" and "anger issues" based on the fact he had a rough time, was depressed, needed to change some stuff and unceremoniously ended his relationship with someone he had been dating for a few months who thought he was "One of the Ones". She came to his home after he asked her not to and he got angry when she ignored the boundary and shouted at her and slammed his door on her. Now he is seen pretty much as "Psycho Guy" due to his "emotional abuse" (being distant when he was depressed) and "aggressive angry outbursts" (telling her to leave his door).

How do I know this is what happened? Because my partner and me were with him pretty much the whole weekend, from the unceremonious text he sent her to when she turned up. Not just us but a few of us who he summoned to get him out of his rut. Sure, we have tried to speak up for him but as he is a straight cis guy, sadly, not many people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This is why I am adamantly against applying such labels. I've spoken about the woman I dated who had the kids... she would frequently "ditch them for me"... I think some of her behaviors are in line with postpartum depression and I suggested that to her, but I would never go around saying that she has that illness. I am not in a position to diagnose her. I really try and avoid doing it.
 
But as a layperson, assuming one is a layperson and not a psychiatric or psychological professional, is it morally right or socially acceptable to assign a diagnosis on someone else based on one's biased (because one is emotionally invested in said person or the situation) perceptions of their behavior? Is it okay to give them any kind of label based on your understanding of a book you read or an internet article?

I've seen when this sort of rumor spirals out of control.

This. Both online and irl in my area, its become increasingly popular for people to label each other NPD, sociopathic, borderline, etc. when the relationship ends badly. Just because someone displays some of the behaviors at one point in time, does not a narcissist, sociopath, or borderline make.

I've had the same thing happen to a friend of mine. His gf couldn't accept that the relationship was over (and that he wouldn't want to be with her any longer because she was such a 'great catch'), so she labeled him a sociopathic narcissistic predator, and publicly aired all their dirty laundry (of course twisting reality to make her look good and him look bad.) Like your friend, he made some poor choices during the relationship which gave some credence to her claims. He was also ostracized by many of the people in our circle and she came off looking good. The reality is that she has more characteristics and behaviors suggesting a personality disorder than he has (and the long history of actions to support it.) Even so, I wouldn't label her with any disorder...I'm not trained to do so. In the end, her poor behavior eventually alienated her from the group, but not before damaging his credibility.

The thing is, we're all human and we're going to make poor decisions sometimes and imo, behave somewhat narcissistically occasionally. It's just the nature of humanity that we'll screw up. I, also, prefer not to apply labels. And, I prefer to be forgiving of others. If their pattern of treatment towards me or others is not inline with how I wish to be treated, I don't continue the relationship. That said, I do think the checklists are useful to help gauge the overall health of a relationship...especially for those of us who's perspectives are skewed due to past abusive relationships. Plus, ime, the longer you're in an unhealthy/toxic relationship, the less likely you are to recognize controlling, abusive, and manipulative behavior in your partner and yourself.
 
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It's not like people are just sitting around declaring everything a syndrome or disorder, that's ridiculous.
I didn't say anyone was doing that, but sometimes it seems that way. A large part of Western society wants things tied up in neat little packages. There are those in the medical and scientific communities who will pander to that by studying and linking a group of traits/characteristics/tics, etc., and then giving it a name. What they identify might only apply to a very tiny subset of society, and only in certain circumstances with particular conditions in place, but they will publish a book or paper on it to get their research grant money so they can pay their bills another year. It gets reported - usually just the sensationalistic highlights, yet we're supposed to believe it's the whole story. The so-called professionals push for these things to be listed in the DSM, write books, do a round of talk shows... great! For them, it's another year or more of their bills paid.

The public gloms onto this because we are generally uncomfortable with the unknown. We don't like behavior that doesn't make sense, so we analyze ourselves, our neighbors, and our loved ones, and then claim these labels as our own or use them to describe other people. Therapists and others of their ilk realize they can get more business if they talk the lingo, too, even if a thing isn't in the DSM and doesn't have much research to support it. Then they're writing a bunch of books and marketing themselves as specialists in whatever it is, and so it goes round and round.

I am not saying the problems and challenges aren't real. I'm not saying I don't know anyone with mental illness or other challenges. Indeed, I do. I am saying that I am cautious about grouping people together under the latest trendy umbrella, and buying into those concepts, instead of recognizing and dealing with people as unique individuals. For instance, for a while, there were a lot of people coming onto these forums and introducing themselves or describing people in their lives as "conflict avoidant." That was the hot phrase back then. Now, I guess, we'll be seeing lots of people coming here and talking about "highly sensitive" people. Of course, there have always been people who would like to avoid conflict, and there have always been people who were highly sensitive, and so on, but attaching the label makes it a thing, and then it's too easy to base one's interactions with people on the thing instead of the people. It can become an excuse for certain behaviors, on both sides of the coin. This is the trap I'm talking about and would prefer not to fall into.

Again, I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, and I am not dismissing the possibility that these labels can be valid. I am expressing how very baffling it is to me to see just how easily and quickly such terminology gets adopted and used. I prefer to be cautious.
 
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But as a layperson, assuming one is a layperson and not a psychiatric or psychological professional, is it morally right or socially acceptable to assign a diagnosis on someone else based on one's biased (because one is emotionally invested in said person or the situation) perceptions of their behavior? Is it okay to give them any kind of label based on your understanding of a book you read or an internet article?

A very, very good point. Spreading a rumor like that about someone if it weren't true could cause a lot of pain and problems for them, and that merits consideration and caution. But if an animal consistently looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm probably going to call it a duck, even without a degree in biology. In my case, I did a great deal of reading and research on the topic (not just a single article or book) and, basically, this person told me herself what she was, though she danced around the wording a bit.

In the end, my thinking of my ex as a probable NPD doesn't affect her one way or another. My unofficial "diagnosis" is strictly for my own closure. It brought home to me the fact that the relationship was toxic and I needed to shore up my boundaries and get this person out of my life. Being able to put a label on the problem also helped me forgive. She wasn't trying to be horrid, she was "profoundly damaged" (her words.)

It's my understanding most Cluster B's never seek therapy, or if they go, they aren't often honest. They see it as their right to use other people for their own gratification, and they don't want to change and become emotionally vulnerable. So perhaps this label is more beneficial to people who have encountered this type than to the person with the disorder.
 
It's not like people are just sitting around declaring everything a syndrome or disorder, that's ridiculous.

Actually, I think that people kind of are. Especially in the US. (ref because I prefer to provide some reason for my opinion - http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/07/why-the-dramatic-rise-of-mental-illness-diseasing-normal-behaviors-drug-adverse-effects-and-a-peculiar-rebellion/ and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/anxiety_n_1670547.html)

You can kind of see why. In a society built on consumerism what better thing to have than a load of incurable, difficult to live with illnesses that need to be treated with a lifelong course of a variety of medications that must be bought from private companies.

Even better if you can convince the general population to diagnose themselves and each other - then seek out their medical professionals and ask to be put on medication and referred for counselling.

IP
 
In a society built on consumerism what better thing to have than a load of incurable, difficult to live with illnesses that need to be treated with a lifelong course of a variety of medications that must be bought from private companies.

Even better if you can convince the general population to diagnose themselves and each other - then seek out their medical professionals and ask to be put on medication and referred for counselling.

IP

Interesting. Scarily, that does make sense. Luckily, being an HSP doesn't require counseling or medicating. Unless, of course, you're being a HSP causes depression or social anxiety. Or irritable bowel syndrome.
 
"It's my HSP-IBS again." :eek:
 
What I am reading in this particular thread is a group of people who feel that they have had run-ins with people who have proven, over time, to have some form of emotional problem that is probably a serious psychiatric disorder. Naturally, those of us who have had that experience are going to gravitate to this subject, and participate in it more, using the shorthand that we've learned over the years, to make communicating about it easier.

The two main people in my life who I would guess have personality disorders are (as I've said before) my mom and Lora. I've watched both of them, over a series of years (or in my mom's case, decades) go through a cycle of behaviors that are traumatizing and harmful to those unfortunate enough to deal with the cycle.

In both cases, I would definitely not start rumors about either of them. I also wouldn't assume that they treat all people in their lives the same way - in some disorders, you have to get to a certain level of "closeness" (or the person with the disorder needs to feel that you have a certain level of closeness) before the behaviors seriously manifest.

In both cases, my desire to understand their behavior (and read up on stories/articles/books about people with their disorder(s)), stems from wanting to handle them in a way that still stays respectful towards them and honors their humanity, while also making sure that I stay in a safe place mentally and honor my own humanity (because neither my mom nor Lora is necessarily going to do that for me).

If the thread is bothersome to some people, they could totally choose not to read it.

But for those of us who do find it helpful and useful to share stories and learn about this, I think it's really irritating to have some members come in in repeatedly say that it's wrong for us to discuss the way we do or be argumentative and pick apart every nuance looking for faults and exceptions. Yes, there will be people who treat others terribly and publicly announce that someone has mental problems. One of my exes, who behaved abusively towards me during our relationship, went around after I broke up with him telling everybody that would listen that I clearly was having a psychotic break and that I was a danger to myself and others. He actually contacted a close friend of mine through Facebook to tell her that, and she (having known me when I did engage in self-harm) was absolutely terrified for me and drove four hours in the middle of the night to find me, because he convinced her I may kill myself.

So yeah, some people take these things too far. Believe me, I get it. I think most people participating in this thread both get that, and are NOT doing that.

That said, I get that some posters don't seem to agree with this type of discussion at all. That's fine. How about ya'll start a thread about how you disagree with it and why? Then all of us would each have a comfy space to explore these things in the way that feels best to us.
 
I think that we are perfectly on topic and I'd further argue that the predator thread is more about warning people about dangerous types. Furthermore, one can talk about the traumatic experiences of an unhealthy relationship without applying a diagnosis or label.

It is patronizing for you to suggest that we have never encountered a horrible person simply because we don't buy into disgruntled exes and competitive metamours labelling people based on their interactions with them. I can say that I had a bad break up with someone without having to constantly rehash just how mean they were or slapping a stigmatizing label.

The fact remains that you can talk about recognizing an unhealthy situation and leaving it promptly without labelling someone a sociopath, having a personality disorder or anything else. Why is the label so necessary for you to feel as if you've discussed it? How do we know whether or not a person who regularly terms their ex a psycho on the forum does this offline too?

To be personal for a second, Lizzie, have you ever read your signature on here? Asked yourself why you feel it necessary to tell any guest reading the forum that Lizzie was dumped for the abusive behaviours she displayed? I get that you talk about her a lot but what difference would it be if you just listed her as an ex metamour and allowed the curious to read your blog if they wish to know more?
 
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