How do I heal a psychological disconnect between sex and emotional bonding?

Thanks for your long post, Midnight. Thank you for all the thought you put into your own life, and for telling us about it all. It sounds like you have come into a new time in your life and are at the cusp of something big for yourself and your family. I think you should feel very proud of yourself for the effort you have decided to put in. Sending much love and a big hug your way.
 
redpepper said:
Thanks for your long post Midnight.
Thank you for all the thought you put into your own life and then again for telling us about it all.
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I'd like to echo this. I'm glad that this place could be of some help to you - this is why I love forums and communities like this.
 
GroundedSpirit said:
The conflict that exists is the taking on of a belief that sexuality must be limited to a setting of deep love, bonding, etc., when in fact, life will continue to present opportunities to test and invalidate that belief.
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I'm going to call BS here. The only test I am seeing here is of midnightsun's ability to take whatever her husband dishes out. Even with my limited knowledge of BDSM, I understand that's very different from arriving at a change of heart on one's own.

This is reading awfully like, "Well, you were raped, and you're having a hard time dealing, so you're going to have to start seeing rape as a legitimate form of sex."
 
GroundedSpirit said:
But in my opinion and experience it's every bit as ethical (and desirable) to offer someone sexual pleasure when in need, as it is to offer them food when hungry. Society in general does not hold that view. We all get to make that individual choice.
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I don't hold that view either, I guess one of the few views I hold with "society in general."

Provided you have enough to avoid starving, you don't sacrifice anything by giving away food. But when's the last time you went down to the local hooker corner to "feed the hungry Johns"?

In MS's case, "giving away" sex when she doesn't feel a bond to someone is tantamount to feeding her arm to a starving man. She loses a part of herself.

I'm submissive too, and I derive pleasure from helping people, but not when it causes me harm. It would most definitely not be pleasurable to amputate my leg in order to transplant it onto someone that lost theirs in an accident. Why would it be any more pleasurable for MS to emotionally amputate herself by having sex with someone with whom she felt no connection?
 
So here I am.

I am aware of all the labels, judgements passed, and diagnoses handed down and directed at myself. While I am thankful for some of the input, to some of you I must say you're hypocritical, at best. Being able to pinpoint the the impact of the first BB out of a shotgun blast at the side of the barn and convincing the masses that you can prove your theories is simply amazing.

This is my first post, and may very well be my last. I'm not the greatest at writing my thoughts, or telling anyone how I feel, at times, my wife included. But I will tell you all one thing-- I love my wife with all of my soul and all of my being. I would lay anything and everything I've ever had at her feet, if she were to ask. I've given sweat, blood and many tears to this relationship, and to this marriage, as well.

That's not to say in any way that I am perfect, because I am not. I will stand here and say that there's no-one here that can claim to be perfect. But if you laid out your transgressions and the skeletons from your closets, I wouldn't stand over you and and scream that you should be stoned.

Words can be more destructive than positive, sometimes. You people need to think about that before you throw some of them out there. I thought that a community like this would be about help for both sides, for individuals involved in relationships, poly or not. Guess I was mistaken.

I don't feel that there's any help to be had by those who label for the sake of labeling. Damage has been done, yes. For my part, I will live the rest of my life for the purpose of righting my wrongs and repaying my wife, if she will allow me, for what I have done to her and to our family.

I owe the majority of you people nothing. For some of you (you know who you are), I will be forever grateful, for your help, honesty and all of your genuine insight into this.

With this, I will leave you.
Have a great day.
 
Stewy said:
I I will stand here and say that theres not anyone here that can claim to be perfect but if you layed out your transgressions and bones from your closets that I wouldnt stand over you and and scream from the rooftops that you should be stoned either.
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Maybe I missed something, but who said they were perfect, and where did they say that you should be "stoned"?

(I think EVERYONE should be "stoned" but not in the "biblical" sense of the word) :cool:
 
I don't think anyone meant to attack you, Stewy. There were a lot of strong responses from people who have had experience with D/s who saw how your wife felt about what happened. At the time, from the tone of her post, it sounded like you made her have sex with someone that she didn't want to. She asked for advice and opinions, and that's exactly what she was given.

This is an online community of everyday people, not a group counselling session with trained professionals. You have to expect that people are going to respond from their hearts, based on their own life experiences.

I have experience in the BDSM lifestyle. I have seen so many people come on the scene claiming to be Dom/mes, who have no experience and think it's all about boosting their egos, and don't realize the incredible responsibility that a Dom/me has to their sub. It's not about making the sub do things they don't want to do, either by direct order, or by complaining that the sub isn't doing what they want, until the sub feels forced forced to do it in order to please the Dom/me (which is what it appears has happened here). In some ways, I feel that this passive approach is even worse than a direct order, because it eats away at the sub. A direct order to do something you don't want to do is a lot easier to recognize as an attempt at manipulation.

I'm sorry that you feel attacked, but it's a reality that you took on something big without educating yourself on the possible effects. I'm glad to hear that you and your wife are ending the D/s side of your relationship until you can both become educated on your responsibilities in a D/s relationship. I also urge you to get some serious counselling regarding your abusive relationship with your ex-wife in order to recognize those abusive patterns in yourself and do the hard work required to change that behaviour.
 
Wow. Many topics on these boards are such sensitive subjects to everyone that threads can get out of hand fast. And there are some people here that really feel the need to get very preachy with very limited info. I'm sure I'm not innocent on that count, but I will say that I read the first 3 pages of this thread, skimmed the 4th, and skipped the 5th until I saw that Stewy had posted. What I had read up until then was somewhat heartwarming, as I always love the flood of support this board has to offer and the helpful intent behind it, but also shocked and even a little angry at the judgmentalism that has also, I'm sad to say, become a staple of this site.

Stewy is right to be mad if he read this whole thing.

Like so many others, I'm going to have to finish digesting a lot before I really post here, but helping someone on a message board shouldn't involve personal judgments unless you know for sure that somehow (good luck with this) the person/people asking for input and/or help have managed to convey every aspect and both points of view that pertain to the situation. Shame on those who stand behind a conviction based on nothing but a few 1000-word posts for a foundation!
 
HappiestManAlive said:
And there are some people here that really feel the need to get very preachy with very limited info. I' sure I'm not innnocent on that count,
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You're being "preachy" right now.

What are people supposed to do when someone comes on and asks for feedback? Say "Thanks for sharing your story, but I can't give you my opinion until I know everything there is to know from all points of view of everyone involved?" It's as if you're saying that no one can say ANYTHING unless they have something "nice" to say. I can't think of anyone on this forum who gave a "judgment" that wouldn't revise their take on a situation if they were provided with more information and/or another party's perspective.

It comes down to when it's something you want to hear, it's "support". When it's something you don't want to hear, it's "judgment". It's ALL "support" AND it's ALL "judgment". If you don't want the neighbors to comment on the stains in your underwear, don't hang your laundry where it can be seen by everyone. (That's the general "you", not "you" as in particular individuals on this forum.)
 
HappiestManAlive said:
Wow. So many topics on these boards are such sensitive subjects to everyone that threads can get out of hand fast. And there are some people here that really feel the need to get very preachy with very limited info. I'm sure I'm not innocent on that count, but I will say that I read the first 3 pages of this thread, skimmed the 4th, and skipped the 5th until I saw that Stewy had posted. What I had read up until then was somewhat heartwarming, as I always love the flood of support this board always has to offer and the helpful intent behind it, but also shocked and even a little angry at the judgmentalism that has also, I'm sad to say, become a staple of this site.

Stewy is right to be mad if he read this whole thing.

Like so many others, I'm going to have to finish digesting a lot before I really post here, but right away, helping someone on a message board shouldn't involve personal judgments unless you know for sure that somehow (good luck with this) the person/people asking for input and/or help have managed to convey every aspect and both points of view that pertain to the situation. Shame on those who stand behind a conviction based on nothing but a few 1000-word posts for a foundation!
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I was, and remain, 100% confident that I absolutely do know what I am talking about. I am equally certain I know both sides of the story, as I've been talking one-on-one with both of them, individually and together. I know both of them and I stand by every word in my posts.
 
YGirl, yes, I know. *sigh* I haven't been participating a lot on the boards lately because of this very thing. It saddens me, because I really like these forums. :( As for you, specifically, I'll come right out and say that much of the time, you're one of the exceptions, or at least, I see you cautioning others in the way I would, or do, more than most.

LR, pretty much none of that was directed at you, specifically because it would seem that you DO have such insight. As many of your long posts were those that were skimmed/skipped, I can honestly say that if you did post something that triggered that reaction, I probably missed it.
 
HappiestManAlive said:
I haven't been participating a lot on the boards lately because of this very thing. It saddens me, because I really like these forums. As for you, specifically, I'll come right out and say that much of the time, you're one of the exceptions., or at least, I see you cautioning others in the way I would. or do, more than most.

LR, pretty much none of that was directed at you, specifically because it would seem that you DO have such insight. As many of your long posts were those that were skimmed/skipped, I can honestly say that if you did post something that triggered that reaction, I probably missed it.
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Just clarifying. I make it a point not to say too many pointed things on here, for exactly the fact that I don't know. I am not an expert. I have no training. But in the very few cases where I do have a clue, and am asked specifically (as was the case on this thread), well, I can be quite pointed.
 
Looking back on my post of yesterday, I would like to apologize for some of the things I said in haste and frustration, with fear and a loathing of my own actions that have led me and Midnightsun to the point we are now. I am sorry for the things I said. I am honestly looking for help in this matter from the ones that have the life experiences and are willing to share them with us. For those of you who are still willing to give us advice, MS and I look forward to receiving and using that knowledge to rebuild ourselves and our relationship, slowly and deliberately, into what it needs to become, and remain, in the future.

Communication has been only one of the things that has gone astray in our marriage. I do believe that over time I had become resentful of things, more than I was willing to admit, and in turn, took advantage of the gifts my wife bestowed upon me. I got caught up in the animalistic physical act with others, and left my responsibility for her behind in the wake of my own selfishness and useless needs. I accept responsibility for this. Even if she had been, or was, on her own self-destructive path, I should have been able to identify this and help put an end to it, not facilitate and use it as a means of taking that which I hold sacred.

On more than one occasion, she had expressed those needs to me. In one moment, I saw them for what they honestly were, I swear I did, only to get selfish and irresponsible when any opportunity arose, and in turn, put my needs above hers. I cannot begin to describe with what pain I have realized this all caused, the guilt I now feel. I love my wife, but I took advantage of her gift to me. I've betrayed her trust and led her into places that are inexcusable. I will have to make up for this in the future.

To my bride and the love of my life: I am so very sorry. Sorry for the hurt that I have caused you and the memories it has left you with. Sorry for the selfishness on my part, and for not being strong enough to control myself and do what it was that needed to be done: caring for you. I failed you and I failed myself.

I would also like to say that I am the luckiest man alive to be married to this woman. She is a beautiful, smart and amazing person!

I owe you so much, my love, so very much, and want nothing more than to rebuild what it is that we have misplaced and misused, even stronger than we had it before. :)

In closing, I would like to say that I know there are those of you who may not understand why or how this could have happened. I am willing to answer any and all questions you may have for me about my part in this along the way. I do work a shift that holds me at the opposite of most people, so don't think I'm avoiding you. It may take me a day or so to catch up.

Once again, I was angry at myself, more than anything, yesterday. Those of you that I thought had been unfair were actually, for the most part, being honest and trying to help, not hinder.

Thank you all for your posts, time and effort.

Stewy
 
Stewy,

I want to first say a huge "thank you" for coming on here and responding. I can understand why your initial reaction was what it was, and your explanation of it in that post and your second one really struck a nerve - our circumstances and stories are very different but I have shared some of what you are feeling now.

First, the only thing anybody on a forum like this can do is to react based on information given. When only one side of the story is presented that will often get reactions based on that - you coming here and writing what you did gave us another look at things, especially with you sharing how you are feeling.

My advice to you both would be to stop using this forum (and any other you may be one) as a place to get specific help - there are too many people here (including me) who don't know you, and haven't had the necessary conversations with you to establish the backdrop to this. Nobody here has the right to sit judge and jury on what you did - only you can do that. The same goes for your partner.

It sounds like there has been a lot of hurting and break-downs in your relationship. I would strongly advise you two to seek professional help with a couples counselor, preferably one that has familiarity with so-called alternative lifestyles". They can spend the time necessary and provide the follow-up you need to give you both the space you need to talk through your issues and to give you both the tools to rebuild.

It sounds like both of you have a pretty good grasp of the situation and an inkling of what it has done to each of you - this is one hell of a good start.

I really wish the both of you well.
 
Thank you for the kind and understanding words, CDM. I have never been an open "people person," but rather one who keeps to himself with a sometimes small core group of friends and loved ones.

No, this didn't just happen overnight. It's been festering in the background, and we've let everyday life, and the struggles that come with that, enable us to ignore what was most important to us.

Unfortunately, Alaska doesn't give us much in the way of resources. We will both be seeking counseling, and hopefully, when the time is right, we will be able to find someone who is able to help us both together, as well.

I see hope in all of this; I feel peace slowly making its way back into our lives, and relationship, as well. I do know that it will be uphill from here, both on individual and couple levels. I'm looking forward to that, because when we have found common ground and been honest with one another it has been a really great thing. We've learned a lot. We have a a lot more to learn. Despite all that is ahead of us, I do believe there is a bright spot on the horizon for us and our family.

Thanks again,
Stewy
 
Sometimes knowing that you are on a road to improvement can give you solace and energy enough to continue - you don't have to have "got there" to gain such benefit.

Also, and I think that this is a lesson for any relationship - poly and mono - if you let small things sit there unresolved, they can quickly grow into big things that take over and destroy.

Sometimes it is important to sit down with a loved on and do a quick "reality check", "how are we doing?", or a "State of the union". Have a place to bring up the small, niggling things and work on them together, rather than letting them get out of control. Often human nature means we don't bring up the small stuff because we don't want to bother the other - that can backfire badly and the corrective actions needed are much more drastic, with people hurt in the process.
 
As it keeps coming up, not only on this thread, but a lot on this thread, I'd like to say something one more time, and ask for you all to see if you have more luck!

A number of us have tried to find "poly-friendly" counselors (or any professional) in Alaska. None of us have had any luck. (There is possibly a poly-friendly lawyer, in that we know a lawyer who is poly, but that doesn't mean that he would work poly-friendly, as that would expose him as poly, if you know what I mean.)

Beyond that, of those of us who are open in general life, there is a college employee, massage therapist, SAHM, that we know for sure. Not too much help there in regards to therapy. I've tried all of the places online I know of in this state to find a poly-friendly therapist, to no avail.

So, any ideas?

I know it's a good idea, and would have suggested such to MS and Stewy if I thought there was one available, but I did the research before I responded and found nothing. So if anyone has another place to search, or has had any luck in that department, I would love to know.

Stewy, keep talking. You will find that just talking will help. And good job on coming back to talk. I know it's hard for a quiet person like you. But you did it! So pat yourself on the back again. :)
 
LR, how about your start a new thread on it - that should get a wider audience if it has an appropriate thread title. I have some idea,s but I think we should chat about this in a stand-alone that maybe could become a Golden Thread if useful.
 
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