Huge Problem likely Small Issue for your veterans, please help

[LovingRadiance]

meta communication

http://danedgeofreason.blogspot.com/2008/02/meta-communication.html

In terms of writing-online especially,
using italics, capital letters, punctuation, underlines, font changes, font color changes, emoticons all impact communication and can be used to ensure that the EMOTION of a message is sent congruently with the words being typed.

Additionally, something that can be used in verbal or written communication is establishing (frequently if the conversation goes over several hours or in this case days and weeks) what the goal/purpose/intent of the writing is.

For example, if I want to vent-and know I may say things "politically incorrectly"-I can say,

**VENT**
Then readers know that what follows may be a totally brainless temper tantrum-and not to presume that every word I write is the exact way I feel or exactly what I think of my partner (or the situation) or even exactly what occurred in a situation.

So, if I write the following:

**VENT** OMG MACA IS SUCH A DICK! I can't believe he fucking woke me up at 5 am for NO DAMN REASON today! What an asshole! I haven't had shit for sleep in a week and I'm exhuasted. I wish he was more considerate! I am so sick of hearing his damn alarm clock go off 3 times EVERY FUCKING DAY.....Someone else might reply with:

Wow LR-that's not really like you to say those types of things about Maca-is everything ok?

People know that there may be some exaggerations, that I am letting off steam and probably not ready for suggestions or advice and just need some emotionally attentive "listening" and empathy until I cool off.

A few posts later I might write something like this:

**Apology** Wow, I really lost it today! I just started my period and realized I must have been on a hormonal bent, because it just wasn't sensible for me to flip out like that! I hope you all know I was just having a moment.

Then in reply to the question someone asked I might say:

Yes, we're ok. I don't even think Maca knew I was pissed. We've talked about the alarm before and agreed that if I just can't handle it, it's ok for me to get up the first time it goes off and move to my room to sleep without hearing it go off 2 more times. But, really, I can't bitch. He gets up at 5 every weekday morning and drives an hour to work. Usually I don't have to be up til 9 when the kids get up.
I was just hormonal and frustrated because I agreed to babysit LP (WHAT WAS I THINKING) all week. He's been sick and so have his parents-so I haven't been sleeping well. But that's not Maca's fault! [shaking head at self] he wakes up every time LP does also and he's been trying to be supportive and helpful. Hell-he made dinner every night this week and got everyone quieted down and mellowed out so I could go to be early several nights too! I just freaked out.


THEN everyone can follow the progression of my thoughts-not only the parts I specifically write;
but also the emotions (via emoticons and parenthetical remarks about my actions) and what it is I'm expecting to accomplish with my writing via my "vent" and "apoloy" notations at the beginning.

 

[LovingRadiance]

There is actually a very good thread in here somewhere ALL about communication... you might do a search for it. LOTS of good advice in regards to dealing with difficult topics like you are addressing.

I'm sorry that things have been tough today-but I'm glad things are "real" thats important.
It feels REALLY hard at first-but honestly-it's amazing how much nicer it is when things are real.

I wrote about that in the life stories blog a couple days ago! LOL!

 

[PolyPhonic]

We would both like to talk to a psychologist. Me somewhat, but she really wants to. She says her brain and heart are getting squished and she has no one to talk to and that she usually talks to her mom but her mom just got out of serious surgery and she doesn't want to upset her.



Is there anybody here that might even be able to do a phone call with us, to just be a friend in a similar situation of Mono-Poly and talk about all the difficulties and how you got to a copacetic scenario?

Because ideally that's what we want to find out about. Today we were talking at length about options. And we just don't know what each option means. For instance, she could move out and come back when she feels comfortable. But she is afraid of me stopping loving her if she does that.

We're at the point of ripping apart but we don't want to. And it's not because we hate each other. It's because we love each other but aren't sure how to live together. She seems to respond favorably when she hears about others who are in similar situations and it's working. It makes her think, hmm, I guess it's possible.

I don't know, we're just at the last resort part of being sure about what we're going to do.

 

[PolyPhonic]

Hopefully this transition time will go as smooth/quick/clean as possible for both, and your child(ren) and both of you will be provided for well in the restore/rebuild time as you find the "new normal." May it be so.

You frame it so nicely. Thanks for the sentiments. I'm still bummed we have come to this crossing instead of having known it from the outset. That's the source of some resentment right now. Not so much on my part, I accept that these things happen and there was nothing we could do back then when we met...that it was our journey and circumstances that clarified our differences. But she is younger and less experienced and I think she believes she missed some signs, should have known better, and she has a percentage of her that regrets getting together with me.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Evans-I can't do the phone-but is she there with you right now?

 

[CielDuMatin]

We would both like to talk to a psychologist. Me somewhat, but she really wants to. She says her brain and heart are getting squished and she has no one to talk to and that she usually talks to her mom but her mom just got out of serious surgery and she doesn't want to upset her.

I think that that might be a great idea.

Is there anybody here that might even be able to do a phone call with us, to just be a friend in a similar situation of Mono-Poly and talk about all the difficulties and how you got to a copacetic scenario?

I would strongly suggest that since she has to think hard to speak English, that the person you speak with be bilingual. When things are tough, it's so hard to express the nuances of feeling in a foreign language, even when fairly proficient. She needs to feel comfortable talking to the person you know?

We're at the point of ripping apart but we don't want to. And it's not because we hate each other. It's because we love each other but aren't sure how to live together.

This is very, very hard to face - the idea that you love and care for someone, but that your bottom-lines (your non-negotiables) are mutually incompatible. But it's reality.

She seems to respond favorably when she hears about others who are in similar situations and it's working. It makes her think, hmm, I guess it's possible.

It's only possible for folks who are truly happy doing it. The Mono/poly configuration is a tough one to handle, but I have been doing it for the past few decades. It takes a lot of work, and a lot of compromises on both sides - often the "poly ideal" has to completely go by the wayside and only a limited part of it is possible. It takes both sides to really want to make it work, and find a place to meet in the middle.

Have you looked for spanish language polyamory resources? Maybe she can get some more food for thought there.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliamor doesn't have a ton, but I don't speak the language, so not sure if there are any nuggets in there.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I concur with Ciel's last post.
I'm three years in.
Boyfriend and I haven't had any major issues-but there are a lot of things in poly that simply don't work with a monopoly (small humor there cause smiling is always good for the soul).

Bilingual is a HUGE deal-communication is MUCH more important than talking and someone who can talk isn't necessarily going to be able to communicate with her.

I did pm you.

 

[opalescent]

I suggest find a professional counselor to talk with both of you. Here is a link to the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom's Kink Aware Professionals directory - https://ncsfreedom.org/resources/kink-aware-professionals-directory/kap-directory-homepage.html.

NCSF set up KAP to give kinky people safe reputable professionals of all kinds to go to. It's a good bet that if the counselor is kink aware, they are more likely to be poly aware too. Also people who have a practice focused on LGBT concerns are also generally good bets to be poly aware too.

It is unlikely that one is on your island but you never know. Also many counselors will do skype or conference call sessions. You could also search for Spanish to find a bilingual counselor.

 

[lovefromgirl]

and she has no one to talk to and that she usually talks to her mom but her mom just got out of serious surgery and she doesn't want to upset her.

This poor woman. Hard enough planning a wedding; her mom's just had surgery, too? Youch.

I'm not in a mono-poly situation, unfortunately, and I've got all the time in the world for a Skype call.

We're at the point of ripping apart but we don't want to. And it's not because we hate each other. It's because we love each other but aren't sure how to live together. She seems to respond favorably when she hears about others who are in similar situations and it's working. It makes her think, hmm, I guess it's possible.

My family of origin is like that: we can't seem to cope with each other, but we're screwed if we separate. I can't offer anyone any hope there, either!

But I can be sympathetic, so to both of you, I am sorry this is so hard. I don't have to live on an island to feel bad about the problems you're having. (And I've been the odd one out in a lot of situations, FWIW. I was That Foreign Kid in school. Frustrating.)

 

[GalaGirl]

I was worried about her taking her own life last night. We went through a lot. She almost cut up our wedding dress.

I am disturbed you wrote she was talking about killing herself. Is that what that was?! If so? Why have you not got your wife to hospital?

We're at the point of ripping apart but we don't want to. And it's not because we hate each other. It's because we love each other but aren't sure how to live together.

What you WANT is not happening. Because you both WANT very different things. Accept it.

What your overall relationship NEEDS is to get out of this gridlock of constant emotional unsafety/pressure. Accept it.

Best solution at this time? Break up. That stinks. But it is stink with relief in sight. Accept it.

It is better than carrying on this way and have endless stinkage forever.

Even if she's on suicide watch? (I know this may sound cold initially. Bear with me though.) Even in that event? If in the end it still boils down to YOU want to be polyamorous in a polyship structure and she does NOT? That conversation is OVER. The relationship is over. You do not match.

ACCEPT IT.

And accept that instead of one problem (we do not match, we need a divorce) you have another problem (we do not match, so we need a divorce. We also need to provide for wife's health care/suicide watch issues so she is well taken care of. You can still visit her in hospital and bring her flowers, you know. But get into right relationship here -- if you do not match up romance wise, get back to being only friends. )

Her emotional end of the deal is her end of the deal. If she needs a counselor to cope with divorce emotions? Do the responsible, compassionate, kind thing and help her GET ONE. You are not a pro. You are also too close to the issue.

If she starts dumping at you inappropriately? Check out of any brewing fight she's trying to pick. Tell her firmly you love her and always will love her but you are NOT compatible as wedded partners and she cannot be beating you up emotionally to punish you for something that is not anyone's fault. Tell her to call her counselor. Then go for a walk. Leave the room.

Affirm you love her, and care about her still and always will as many times as needed. In the role of loving FRIEND. Because monogamous HUSBAND you cannot be, and to spare her never ending suckage pain NOW and open the door for her future happiness LATER -- because you love her? You have to vacate that role so someone else more suited to her can be able to COME IN. No monogamous future husband to be will walk in to her monogamous relationship wanting life if you are hogging the husband spot. This is only sense.

You do not match up. Remaining stuck in gridlock is NOT HEALTHY for either of you. Move the thing FORWARD to the place where you can be good exes, co parents, and friends. Not crazy arguing people upset all the time.

Neither of you is having fun dragging out the inevitable. So stop dragging.

She is experiencing emotional flooding and fears (google emotional flooding) and the RELIEF of knowing it is divorce is something concrete. It is not FUN, but then it is not endless stinky. It is stinky with an end point. Some choices in Life are not picking between win or lose. It is picking between "this choice stinks!" and "this choice stinks too!" and picking the one that is the least stinky then.

It still will stink for a time, but both of you can weather it better knowing there's a light at the end of the tunnel. You will feel all sorts of more emotional rollercoaster crazy before the ride calms down. Get pro help to support you in this time.

SHOW HER that you have not stopped loving her as a good friend. Keeping moving it to an amicable split -- as amicable as possible.

STOP/PAUSE extra relationships -- no extra dating. Anyone you are seeing seriously (if you are) could understand that you need some space to process a clean divorce and provide for ex wife/kids sanely.

Focus on ending this one well, with appropriate care for her emotional crisis states. If she needs doctor, if she needs hospital suicide watch, if she needs counselor, etc. Care for your own buckets as well.

It's just the reality that you both want two different things from your relationship structure with a romantic partner.

This is LIFE.

I'm fluent in Spanish -- I'm half Latina. I cannot do phone but she could post on this thread and I'd read it.

But I strongly suggest a pro marriage/divorce counselor/mediator/lawyer to help you navigate the break up smoothly. You have not just yourselves but children to care for. Internet people can only help but so far and really what could I say that I'm not already saying to you?

Get your heads clear. You are NOT compatible -- the ethical thing to do for all parties is a break up.

Move it forward in as sane way as possible. You have your own well being and that of your children riding on it.

DO NOT RECCOMMEND

If your wife is currently in an emotional and mental health state where she is threatening suicide I DO NOT SUGGEST burdening her with personal growth challenges that her plate is much to full to bear. That's just cruel!

Even if SHE thinks she wants to go there? She may not be fit in Heart and Mind to make that kind of major life choice well. And if she's speaking from a place of "fear of losing you" and just going there because of that weak reason? It is just doomed from the get go. Do not bother to go there. Do not kid yourselves.

If YOU are going there with the weak reason of "I'm a people pleaser and I do not like yucky feelings or seeing my wife feel yucky! Ahhhh!" that is also weak reason. And it is just doomed from the get go. It will not sustain you. Do not bother to go there. Do not kid yourselves.

Weak reasons and weak foundations do not make a strong polyship.

I am in a successful Closed Polyship of 2 -- it's been running near on 20 years. In my youth I was the hinge in a lovely "V" with two mono men. (One of the V arms is my now DH).

It worked well enough. I suspect largely because as the hinge person I laid out the rules clearly enough for it to fly and we endured and wanted to be there even though the door was always open to end it. It did not fly long. After 2 years it faded to friendship for another 4? 5? years. And then my OSO gently faded out of my daily life like he faded into it. We email once a decade so far for major life events now. I miss him and love him still, but we've parted ways and mostly are memories to each other.

I broke up with HIM because he entered a hard time. LDR was killing him and he needed to date other people to alleviate the lonely. To open him to the possibility of future happiness I had to vacate the GF role then because he was monoamorous and having a hard time letting me go. It pained me. I did it anyway -- because I loved him.

I had been his exception to his rule, but his rule was still wanting to be in monoamorous AND monogamous relationship with someone. I was not it. I had to be ethical and CHECK OUT. He was PISSED OFF. Much later he thanked me for having done it. Even though the relationship with the subsequent woman did not work out, he could now with the distance of time appreciate what I had done because I did love him -- I set him free. He had to break up with her and now that he was the breaker upper he could see how gentle I'd been with him. Firm but compassionate. It's hard to do well, and he wanted to tell me that he loved me for having handled his heart gently even if at the time he was bewildered.

Doing the right, ethical thing is NOT always easy. Do it anyway.

You can click my name and cruise my blog thread for more on that story.

But honestly? I don't think either of you is fit in emotional health right now to undertake a mono-poly deal and have it work at the compromise place of "The Closed Polyship of 2" -- where she Opens herself to hear about your inner poly life and thinkings and you Close yourself to not seeing anyone else. I've been living there for years in happiness with DH because -- I have all my needs met. My poly side has expression. He has all his needs met and would tell me if he doesn't. We have an agreement to be closed in the parenting time -- and we talk about Opening in future perhaps. I like the speed we're on and so does he. He's having a long leisurely time at getting to a place where he can share me again, albeit in a different way at a different age under different agreements. I'm having a nice long leisurely time getting there too.

You guys? You don't sound like you want to run slow and leisurely. You want to go at much faster speeds.

You clearly want to see other people.

She clearly wigs out to hear about any of your inner poly life things and if just hearing about it wigs -- what would living it and dealing with you dating do? Ugh.

Do not willingly sign up for UGH.

This is just not a healthy place to Open from, and really? I don't think the return on the investment is looking all that good. So spending more time there to see if it could be a runner when it clearly isn't? Not worth it.

Break up. Better return on investment to invest in developing your good-exes friendship relationship and your coparenting well relationship.

At least the crazy drama STOPS. There's no rule that says you can't break up now, lead a different kind of life together for a while in the roles of friends/coparents and then fall in love AGAIN way later down the line and approach this again from another Time and another Place together, you know.

There's plenty of stories of people who divorce and get back together years later. Not common but hardly unusual!

GalaGirl

 

[CielDuMatin]

Evan, this sounds like you have some major work to do on your relationship, especially if suicide has been mentioned.

I would strongly suggest that you put any actions outside of the relationship between you and her on hold until you get things sorted out. Either with the two of you splitting, or working things through.

One of the poly adages that turns out to be exceedingly true is the mistaken belief "relationship broken, add more people". It nearly always makes things worse.

 

[PolyPhonic]

Evan, this sounds like you have some major work to do on your relationship, especially if suicide has been mentioned.

I would strongly suggest that you put any actions outside of the relationship between you and her on hold until you get things sorted out. Either with the two of you splitting, or working things through.

One of the poly adages that turns out to be exceedingly true is the mistaken belief "relationship broken, add more people". It nearly always makes things worse.

Hey all I never said suicide was mentioned. I only said I was worried about the possibility. Someone else interpreted it as that my fiancee said something about that, but it was nothing of the sort. I only said I was worried about her hurting herself after seeing her trying to be destructive to our wedding dress, and that if she didn't calm down and get in the bed to calm her nerves I would need to take her to the hospital so she was safe.

Today we are dedicating ourselves to each other. Spending a whole day together. Tomorrow night the other girl is coming over. I will post more later tonight on everything. Appreciate all the responses, but we're heading out now and I'll respond later tonight.

 

[CielDuMatin]

Today we are dedicating ourselves to each other. Spending a whole day together. Tomorrow night the other girl is coming over. I will post more later tonight on everything. Appreciate all the responses, but we're heading out now and I'll respond later tonight.

Sorry, but it's going to take more than a day to get things even close to calmed down - why are you injecting more instability into this?

I really would strongly advise against this, until you have your current relationship to a point where things are resolved between you. Why the busting rush on this?

 

[lolalondon]

evanevans

I know I'm coming in late in this debate but I just wanted to say - I can see your confusion and dismay at feeling not completely accepted by this newly found community, which you assumed would be like-minded and where instead you feel criticised. I can see a few points where your approach differs from some aspects of poly philosophy and which hasn't gone down so well here, here they are:

1. Poly emphasises equality. You'll find that many couples here have similar socio-economic status and are both independent; they are therefore able to come to decisions about their relationships as equal partners in life. The situation you describe and the one you would like to set up sounds like it involves multiple relationships with women who are younger, less experienced and much, much poorer than you are. I'm not necessarily saying there's an issue with this but there is a major power imbalance. For them to have a certain lifestyle they'll be expected to agree to the set-up you propose. This isn't exactly two equal life partners coming to a mutual decision, is it? And I have to say... it does sound colonial and patriarchal; the wealthy American in a poor country setting up a harem of young beautiful women from poor families. I don't doubt you'd love them all, or even that some of them would be happy; but it's worth asking: if given the choice and if you weren't in the more powerful position, would they choose to have a monogamous or a poly relationship?

2. Setting up a poly relationship with your equal partner involves negotiations, sometimes for years, and involves both of you setting boundaries and communicating and compromising. And as many here have said, it involves moving at the pace of the partner who is struggling the most - I would add, ESPECIALLY if that person is mono. Sounds like your lady is really struggling and like you're essentially not making any compromises; I mean, you're already planning to have a girl over a couple of days after she's had a major meltdown, your relationship is on the brink and your marriage may or may not happen, with her having no network of support and her mother recovering from major surgery... dude, can't you close things for a few months to give her time to process and to work on your relationship? I know you feel like a kid in a candy shop, but can't you slow down for the sake of the person you love, who is clearly suffering? Really? You're showing very little willingness to move at her pace, this is no way to make a mono feel secure in a poly-mono relationship.

So essentially, I think people on this forum are pushing you about the power dynamics in your proposed relationship set-up and your compassion towards/ability to compromise with your fiancée. Hope this makes sense.

 

[BoringGuy]

In my opinion, it's obvious that evan has already made up his mind that he is going to fuck this other girl whether his fiancee is on-board with the poly thang or not. He wants her to be agreeable not for her own benefit, but to make it easier for him to have what he wants (evan has stated that this is about his fiancee standing in the way of him getting what he wants - i'm not making an assumption about that).

It is also clear to me that the fiancee is not emotionally or financially prepared to walk out on him, with four small children to care for and her mother unable to offer even moral support or comfort.

What a sad, sad situation for those kids.

Evan, i hope your penis is happy after all you've put this poor woman through. We here only know your side of the story, but let's say she came on and spoke privately with gala girl. Do you think she would tell gg that it's ok with her and she wants this for herself, and wants to work on her jealousy issues and insecurities so that you can both enjoy the poly dream together? I'm thinking it would be more along the lines of "i'm doing this so my man, the father of my baby, will be happy."

So sad. I really do hope i am wrong, but i'm doubting it.

 

[CielDuMatin]

The situation you describe and the one you would like to set up sounds like it involves multiple relationships with women who are younger, less experienced and much, much poorer than you are. [...] And I have to say... it does sound colonial and patriarchal; the wealthy American in a poor country setting up a harem of young beautiful women from poor families.

Since the poster hasn't come back and talked about this, I feel I need to comment based on what has been said already, and my scant knowledge of the Caribbean islands....

I have not visited the island that he lives on, but know that it is a vibrant tourist destination with a fairly strong ex-pat community. In general, on islands like this, the local Islanders tend to be quite religious and conservative, and wouldn't go in for an arrangement like this at all, for fear of being ostracized by their church and family. My impression of what Evan is looking for is for this to be relationship with other expats - they are usually nowhere near as poor as the locals, and nowhere near as vulnerable. Most of them will be other American citizens, or Europeans. Often expats, because of their more adventurous nature, tend to be less conservative than either the locals or other US Citizens.

My concern isn't with corrupting the locals, it's with the nature of most expats, or at least those that would be interested in an arrangement similar to what Evan is proposing.

 

[PolyPhonic]

1. Poly emphasises equality. You'll find that many couples here have similar socio-economic status and are both independent; they are therefore able to come to decisions about their relationships as equal partners in life.

Right. That's true. I didn't realize it but that does factor into the differences between what I am thinking/imagining, and what they are doing. In almost all scenarios I want to be the provider.

The situation you describe and the one you would like to set up sounds like it involves multiple relationships with women who are younger, less experienced and much, much poorer than you are. I'm not necessarily saying there's an issue with this but there is a major power imbalance.

Right. Such a good point. Thanks for focusing on this aspect, it may even reveal insecurities of my own. I appreciate you putting the spotlight on this issue.

For them to have a certain lifestyle they'll be expected to agree to the set-up you propose. This isn't exactly two equal life partners coming to a mutual decision, is it? And I have to say... it does sound colonial and patriarchal;

Got it. Totally see where the other members were coming from now. There is no beating around the bush on this. That is part of my vision. But personally to me, it's more about Anarchy or living free, than enslavement. I want to give the gift of having the SOs enjoy total life freedom. If they want to get a job that's cool. But the gift is that they can enjoy being free with their time to do whatever they are greatest at. Maybe that's helping the disadvantaged, maybe that's spending the whole day on Facebook, maybe that's something personal to them, I don't know. But that is a part of my vision. I'm not interested in two (or more) independent different lives having intersection for co-existing. That sounds less encompassing to me. I'm interested in a real merging of time and sharing each other's lives, not just being together when we each have nothing going on in our independent lives. Merging.

the wealthy American in a poor country setting up a harem of young beautiful women from poor families. I don't doubt you'd love them all, or even that some of them would be happy; but it's worth asking: if given the choice and if you weren't in the more powerful position, would they choose to have a monogamous or a poly relationship?

In some cases yes. And those are the women I would need to be sure I'm getting involved with so I can avoid power dynamics.

2. Setting up a poly relationship with your equal partner involves negotiations, sometimes for years, and involves both of you setting boundaries and communicating and compromising. And as many here have said, it involves moving at the pace of the partner who is struggling the most - I would add, ESPECIALLY if that person is mono. Sounds like your lady is really struggling and like you're essentially not making any compromises;

I'm definitely making compromises. That's the reason for talking. If I didn't want to compromise, I would have given her the final word and went on my merry way with my choice. But we are 100% in the midst of only talking about it.

I mean, you're already planning to have a girl over a couple of days after she's had a major meltdown,

This is something she (my fiancee) wants to do as well. We're only going to do what we're comfortable with and have fun only, nothing more. We're just exploring our feelings, and she wants to try again. She's not rushing any more than she's procrastinating. And there has been some overreacting on the board as to why she's been upset. She's upset at the Poly ideas, not the idea of a threesome. And the recent education has been helpful in learning how to segregate those two things and caused a degree of security about the threesome not being threatening.

your relationship is on the brink and your marriage may or may not happen, with her having no network of support and her mother recovering from major surgery... dude, can't you close things for a few months to give her time to process and to work on your relationship?

After this, we are going to close for about 6 weeks.

I know you feel like a kid in a candy shop, but can't you slow down for the sake of the person you love, who is clearly suffering? Really? You're showing very little willingness to move at her pace, this is no way to make a mono feel secure in a poly-mono relationship.

We will be "slowing down" after this weekend, which also has a skype session with a psychologist specializing in Poly/Mono relationships, scheduled.

So essentially, I think people on this forum are pushing you about the power dynamics in your proposed relationship set-up and your compassion towards/ability to compromise with your fiancée. Hope this makes sense.

Totally makes sense. And I believe it's 100% correct. And the power dynamic reveals something about myself I have to reflect on. Thank you.

 

[PolyPhonic]

Caribbean islands....

I have not visited the island that he lives on, but know that it is a vibrant tourist destination with a fairly strong ex-pat community. In general, on islands like this, the local Islanders tend to be quite religious and conservative, and wouldn't go in for an arrangement like this at all, for fear of being ostracized by their church and family. My impression of what Evan is looking for is for this to be relationship with other expats - they are usually nowhere near as poor as the locals, and nowhere near as vulnerable. Most of them will be other American citizens, or Europeans. Often expats, because of their more adventurous nature, tend to be less conservative than either the locals or other US Citizens.

My concern isn't with corrupting the locals, it's with the nature of most expats, or at least those that would be interested in an arrangement similar to what Evan is proposing.

That's good sound logic. Makes sense. Except I am actually talking about the more difficult task of finding locals who are interested in a free-er life, of free-er thinking, who are enamored by the idea of merging with a cultured westerner (even if for a limited time (months, years)). Women who are at the point where they want to explore beyond their horizons.

 

[PolyPhonic]

In my opinion, it's obvious that evan has already made up his mind that he is going to fuck this other girl whether his fiancee is on-board with the poly thang or not. He wants her to be agreeable not for her own benefit, but to make it easier for him to have what he wants (evan has stated that this is about his fiancee standing in the way of him getting what he wants - i'm not making an assumption about that).

It is also clear to me that the fiancee is not emotionally or financially prepared to walk out on him, with four small children to care for and her mother unable to offer even moral support or comfort.

What a sad, sad situation for those kids.

Evan, i hope your penis is happy after all you've put this poor woman through. We here only know your side of the story, but let's say she came on and spoke privately with gala girl. Do you think she would tell gg that it's ok with her and she wants this for herself, and wants to work on her jealousy issues and insecurities so that you can both enjoy the poly dream together? I'm thinking it would be more along the lines of "i'm doing this so my man, the father of my baby, will be happy."

So sad. I really do hope i am wrong, but i'm doubting it.

It's not about sex.

 

[PolyPhonic]

Everyone my name here is POLYPHONIC. The other name which used the name Evan, is no longer. Thanks.