I could use another perspective, please.

[Effie]

Going to try and give the nutshell version of the background here.

I am in a poly relationship, my SO and I have known each other for almost 5 years. In the beginning we were romantically involved, then not, then friends, then friends who knew we loved each other and wanted a life together. During that time he had become involved with someone else. All of us are long distance. I am in Western NY, she is in Cali, and he is in the Pacific Northwest. When it became apparent that we could no longer remain just friends, he broached the notion of Poly with her, so that he could pursue his love with me.

Of course it was a rocky start. It wasn't the relationship she had signed up for. Still, she was game to give it a try, since she loved him and did not want to deny him what would make him happy. Also she is open minded and knew love was not a zero sum game.

The rough beginning that we all had, trying to adjust to this, brought to the fore some of the issues she had been having with their long distance relationship. basically, the earliest they could be living under the same roof was aprox 5 years, and would mean one of them making a large sacrifice. She realized that wasn't something she wanted, so about 2 or so months in she ended their romantic relationship.

They are now friends, with benefits. For me, I was all ... so tell me what has actually changed? Because from my perspective it didn't seem like much had. Well. Not true. His priorities changed. Instead of giving us some sort of equal status in regards to decisions, etc. I am now the priority. They are still intimate via phone and skype, and there are still plans for her to come visit again.

I learned last night that there had been talk of her coming during his next vacation, but he told her I was coming out then. So there is tentative plans for this autumn. She will still be staying at his house, still interacting with his family and friends (he shares a house with friends) in the same way that she always has. She even mentioned to me in an email that it will be easier for her and I to be friends without the pressure of the relationship surrounding it.

Is it just me, or does this seem like she is getting all the benefits of being in a relationship with him, without having to put in the work of a relationship with him and myself?

 

[Marcus]

Is it just me, or does this seem like she is getting all the benefits of being in a relationship with him, without having to put in the work of a relationship with him and myself?

What work are you putting in to "the relationship" that she isn't? Do you think she is getting away with something she shouldn't be? It sounds like you guys have found yourselves in a perfect dynamic; what is the problem?

Personal relationships should always function this way. No pressure, no rules, no bullshit... just offer each other what comes naturally and accept the things that we enjoy from them. I don't know what work people are doing to be able to love their romantic partners but I would take that as a bad sign.

 

[opalescent]

... The rough beginning that we all had, trying to adjust to this, brought to the fore some of the issues she had been having with their long distance relationship. basically, the earliest they could be living under the same roof was aprox 5 years, and would mean one of them making a large sacrifice. She realized that wasn't something she wanted, so about 2 or so months in she ended their romantic relationship.

They are now friends, with benefits. For me, I was all ... so tell me what has actually changed? Because from my perspective it didn't seem like much had. Well. Not true. His priorities changed. Instead of giving us some sort of equal status in regards to decisions, etc. I am now the priority. They are still intimate via phone and skype, and there are still plans for her to come visit again.

I learned last night that there had been talk of her coming during his next vacation, but he told her I was coming out then. So there is tentative plans for this autumn. She will still be staying at his house, still interacting with his family and friends (he shares a house with friends) in the same way that she always has. She even mentioned to me in an email that it will be easier for her and I to be friends without the pressure of the relationship surrounding it.

Is it just me, or does this seem like she is getting all the benefits of being in a relationship with him, without having to put in the work of a relationship with him and myself?

They broke up because the relationship was too much sacrifice. That happens and it is healthier to recognize that. The break up does not seem related to you or poly. It seems their relationship reached the end of its life span.

So now they are friends who fuck when they visit. And friends do visit and interact with other friends and family while there. That is a friend thing to do.

Do you really want to date the man who has no further interactions with former lovers once the relationship is over? What did you expect? No contact ever? He put your schedule ahead of her in setting up visits. He is acting like you are his romantic priority just as he said he would.

So why are you getting bent out of shape by this? You would be much better off figuring why and addressing it internally than worrying about this non-issue.

 

[LovingRadiance]

It actually sounds to me like they identified the limits and boundaries of what they felt was reasonable for their relationship.

My question would be-what is it that you are bothered by
AND
does it REALLY have anything to do with you?

 

[Vixtoria]

It sounds like on one hand you are right, she is still in a relationship with him. They just changed what kind of priority they gave each other and what they wanted from the relationship. If it works for them then good on them! Relationships can change. We are used to being told they either deepen or die, but that's not the only options. So I would just shrug and move on myself. (not from the relationship, from worrying over theirs.) It is their relationship, they are defining what works for them, being honest with you and up front. What more can they do?

As for her not putting in the work, that was part of the change int heir relationship. They decided how much work they wanted to put into it, how much enjoyment, their boundaries. THEIRS. If it's not the same as what you and he have, well no offense but, duh! It's not going to be the same.

The only part that stood out to me is that she isnt' putting in the work with YOU. I'm wondering what you were expecting? Did you think at some point it would be the three of you? Not all metamours have to 'put in work' with each other. They don't have to be friends, they don't have to get along, hell they don't even have to talk if they don't want to!

 

[WhatHappened]

Is it just me, or does this seem like she is getting all the benefits of being in a relationship with him, without having to put in the work of a relationship with him and myself?

Like Marcus, I'm curious what sort of work it is you want her to be putting in?

 

[Effie]

I think you are misunderstanding me. *laughs* likely I didn't explain it very well. My problem is not her, or that they see each other. I am trying to wrap my own head around how SHE ended the relationship. But yet they interact in all the same ways as they did prior. She ended it because poly isn't for her in the long run, or this relationship. Yet she is, in effect, still in a poly relationship. Without labeling it a relationship so no, she isn't having to put any work into it on the same level. There are no relationship wide decisions and so on. It was her choice. Maybe what i should be saying is she ended the commitment portion, though she does word it as relationship.

I do not expect (nor want) her to go away. Not at all. They have a very good and loving connection. She is an amazing person, and I know that his life is better for her being in it.

I don't feel like she is "getting away" with something. I asked for some perspective and if I was looking at it wrong. Which apparently I was so thank you for pointing that out in no uncertain terms.

We were a V, we did not have plans of becoming a triad, but it was hoped that we would all become friends, and would one day all be living under the same roof. It was the end goal. I cannot say if we ever would have been a triad or not.

And yes, because of the boundaries we have set in the relationship, our other relationships do have something to do with each other. No, we do not wish to dictate the terms of each others relationships, but we do realize the impact that other relationships could have on our own.

And Marcus, relationships do require work. Work in the way of good communication to grow together. Work in the way or defining mutual goals within our relationship and building toward them. Not work like a 9 - 5 job of toiling with low pay.

LovingRadiance thank you for your response. After reading all of this and going back and thinking about it for a bit, I realized what is bothering me. By deciding not to pursue a relationship with him any longer, but by still having this particular relationship, what happened was I got cut out. We are not a V any longer, but a couple here, and their friendship there. So i guess I need to work on my feelings of exclusion. (no, not jealousy, so please do not everyone go and decide that I MUST be jealous simply because this is a learning and growing process for me).

opalescent ... I am not bent out of shape. But thanks. I never even intimated that I thought they should not have contact. I am friends with every single one of my exes. They are all people I have loved, or still love. My SO is the same way. I would not want him not speaking with her, as I have said, I know how close they are with each other and that is a non-issue for me.

Honestly, I was a bit shocked to come and find judgemental responses. I was looking for insight. if I wanted judgement I could have walked into the nearest Baptist Church.

Still, there was some good stuff in between all the judgement. Things that did just what I asked for ... gave me some insight into why I was feeling unsettled. And it is simply because I am feeling the breakup for what it means to me. I had a future in mind that included the three of us under one roof, of being a family. I feel like I am mourning losing that a bit.

Maybe next time someone asks for advice or insight you could not rush to conclusions and make assumptions.

 

[Marcus]

She is an amazing person, and I know that his life is better for her being in it. I had a future in mind that included the three of us under one roof, of being a family. I feel like I am mourning losing that a bit.

It can be tough when the picture of how we would like our lives to turn out doesn't end up being the way we imagined; life throws a lot of curve balls so expecting people to fit into those plans is an act of frustration. Trying to make life long plans with someone has a tendency to break down because people are not static creatures. I get making plans with people, but I find that if it is something other than relatively short term agreements that it applies unnecessary pressure to the relationship and the longer term the agreements the more likely they will get adjusted before they are completed.

It sounds like she is enjoying her dating and isn't putting long term restrictions on her current actions - which is awesome.

And Marcus, relationships do require work. Work in the way of good communication to grow together. Work in the way or defining mutual goals within our relationship and building toward them. Not work like a 9 - 5 job of toiling with low pay.

My current relationship does not require work. I don't consider being honest and good communication to be "work", it's just being an adult.

Further, I don't view life as a team sport so I don't really connect with the idea of making "growing together" or "mutual goals" as something inherent in a romantic relationship. I know there are many people who view relationships this way but I find that approaching life as an individual endeavor is more constructive in the long term.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Ah-yes that makes sense to me.

I feel disappointment over Maca's girlfriend leaving (she moved away). We weren't dating-but it was still disappointing to me.

I think maybe you are feeling the disappointment and angst (for lack of a better word) that comes with unknown and change. You knew what the joint plan was. But that has changed-and yet you aren't sure what the real "plan" is because the behaviors haven't changed.


There isn't much to do about any of that-except acknowledge your feelings and then accept the situation.

Our situation is very much closer entwined then some on here-if something significant changes in my relationship with one guy-it DEFINITELY affects the other-because we all live together and while we are NOT a triad romantically or sexually-we are financially and in our parental duties.

I think I would find it helpful if I were in your shoes to acknowledge and accept that for her it may have simply been a terminology issue.

Example:
For me-there are responsibilities that come with being my boyfriend that aren't there for a "fuck buddy" or "friend with benefits". My current boyfriend was my friend with benefits for YEARS and when we decided to change what we call our relationship-my expectations changed.
It may be that her expectations for being gf/bf weren't being met in the poly or the long distance respect. But that those expectations are lessened if they identify as friends with benefits.
If that is the case-then functionally nothing changed-including what "work" she is doing in their relationship. Only the terminology.

It seems silly in some ways-but words can hold a lot of power.

In our life-a fwb or a fb doesn't have a responsibility to the children. But a SO does. It's OUR definition for OUR family and it's not the same definition and expectation other people have. But it is for us and so if someone was in all ways a gf/bf but wanted nothing to do with the kids-we would reduce the privilege level of relationship to our definition of fwb/fb. (I'm not including our full definitions because that's irrelevant. Just giving you an idea of how other people may see things for your perusal of the situation you are in).

 

[GalaGirl]

I had a future in mind that included the three of us under one roof, of being a family. I feel like I am mourning losing that a bit.

Yep. The "ripple effect" going across the polymath of this particular grouping.

When you are a polyship, it's like being in a waterbed with your polypartners. Someone jumps on it, or rolls over or whatever it is they do... everyone else feels the wobble somewhere to varying degrees.

The only way not to feel ANY WOBBLE AT ALL, is to not be in the polyship.

So things changed between them, and you have to digest the ripple effect too. Comes with the territory.

You are disappointed on some level. So it is normal to want to mourn an idea that now will no longer come to be. This idea that one day all of you would live under one roof as family with the two GFs.

You could give yourself time to accept it has become a new shape here -- one where it is a "V" with him as the hinge with a FWB and a GF, rather than a "V" with a GF and a GF.

You can keep participating in the polyship or not. Up to you where your willingness lies.

Hang in there,
GG

 

[IndieSolo]

What judgmental responses? I didn't see anything but honest, straightforward feedback. You can read a sentence like "What did you expect?" or "What is the problem?" with an irritated tone, or a compassionate one.

It sounded, at first, like you felt as if you were "stuck holding the bag." You have the "serious," more committed relationship and there are certain responsibilities you feel go hand-in-hand with that, but she seems to have "all the fun" simply because they're not as serious and don't have as many responsibilities to work on things that you feel you do. AND you are disappointed that the Vee didn't happen the way you dreamed it would.

Mostly, I think the problem/disappointment comes from expectations you had or still have. Personally, I would still consider it a Vee - he still has a relationship with her. But you expect a Vee to look a certain way, for metamours to interact in certain ways, for the work you all put into your relationships with him to be done or shared a certain way, etc. Now, you might take this as harsh or judgmental, but I say this with compassion: mind your own business! Seriously, how he conducts his relationship with her and what she puts into her relationship with him is none of your business. It is not your relationship to manage, nor concern yourself with. In fact, you are judging her. So, I think this is a good learning opportunity for you, to look at issues surrounding having expectations, wanting to be in control, feeling like everything has to be equal, and see what beliefs you have operating here that are keeping you from enjoying what you do have! Good luck!

 

[Inyourendo]

I think you are misunderstanding me. *laughs* likely I didn't explain it very well. My problem is not her, or that they see each other. I am trying to wrap my own head around how SHE ended the relationship. But yet they interact in all the same ways as they did prior. She ended it because poly isn't for her in the long run, or this relationship. Yet she is, in effect, still in a poly relationship. Without labeling it a relationship so no, she isn't having to put any work into it on the same level. There are no relationship wide decisions and so on. It was her choice. Maybe what i should be saying is she ended the commitment portion, though she does word it as relationship.

I do not expect (nor want) her to go away. Not at all. They have a very good and loving connection. She is an amazing person, and I know that his life is better for her being in it.

I don't feel like she is "getting away" with something. I asked for some perspective and if I was looking at it wrong. Which apparently I was so thank you for pointing that out in no uncertain terms.

We were a V, we did not have plans of becoming a triad, but it was hoped that we would all become friends, and would one day all be living under the same roof. It was the end goal. I cannot say if we ever would have been a triad or not.

And yes, because of the boundaries we have set in the relationship, our other relationships do have something to do with each other. No, we do not wish to dictate the terms of each others relationships, but we do realize the impact that other relationships could have on our own.

And Marcus, relationships do require work. Work in the way of good communication to grow together. Work in the way or defining mutual goals within our relationship and building toward them. Not work like a 9 - 5 job of toiling with low pay.

LovingRadiance thank you for your response. After reading all of this and going back and thinking about it for a bit, I realized what is bothering me. By deciding not to pursue a relationship with him any longer, but by still having this particular relationship, what happened was I got cut out. We are not a V any longer, but a couple here, and their friendship there. So i guess I need to work on my feelings of exclusion. (no, not jealousy, so please do not everyone go and decide that I MUST be jealous simply because this is a learning and growing process for me).

opalescent ... I am not bent out of shape. But thanks. I never even intimated that I thought they should not have contact. I am friends with every single one of my exes. They are all people I have loved, or still love. My SO is the same way. I would not want him not speaking with her, as I have said, I know how close they are with each other and that is a non-issue for me.

Honestly, I was a bit shocked to come and find judgemental responses. I was looking for insight. if I wanted judgement I could have walked into the nearest Baptist Church.

Still, there was some good stuff in between all the judgement. Things that did just what I asked for ... gave me some insight into why I was feeling unsettled. And it is simply because I am feeling the breakup for what it means to me. I had a future in mind that included the three of us under one roof, of being a family. I feel like I am mourning losing that a bit.

Maybe next time someone asks for advice or insight you could not rush to conclusions and make assumptions.

Lol if you read the forum you can get an idea of what kind of feedback you can expect.

 

[Effie]

Marcus, given your personal view on life your response makes much more sense now, and I do see the value in it, it just isn't how -I- am. Today. Since I have done a lot of growing and changing myself over the last few years I do see that having my personal goals and such are important to me. I do not want everything in my life to revolve around my relationship(s). I do not want to feel like I am left with nothing if one comes to it's end. Thank you very much for your input, it is a perspective I definitely was not seeing on my own. =)

LovingRadiance ... yes! All of that. I am definitely feeling the loss of a "family member" *laughs* For US, because that is what my SO wishes, as do I, each other's relationships ARE our business. Not in a controlling each other's time and putting limits on things way, but acknowledging that the things that impact those relationships also impact ours, and discussing things with each other (like vacations not together and so on). And in defining together just how much importance we wish to give to other relationships at this time. For now we do not wish other primary relationships, but relationships with less group responsibility while we strengthen ours. I think that once we are living under the same room then that will change. I'm not sure I am explaining that right, I haven't had any coffee yet. Thank you so much for your response, it is definitely helping me put words to my feelings.

GalaGirl ... so well put, thank you! And thank you to the article, as that does put things into perspective as well. I am going to be sharing that with my SO as soon as he wakes up. The waterbed analogy is a good visual. I do appreciate the input, quite a lot.

nycindie ... you are right. While I felt that some of you read my own words wrong, I did the same thing. I spun a tone I expected over what may have actually been transmitted. I have gone over and re-read every response, and can see that there was only honest answers given. And just as I realize each poly relationship is different with it's own unique dynamics, I realize that everyone comes from their own space and experiences which have shaped all the responses. I'm actually not judging her. I am trying to understand a dynamic that is new to me. And I very much appreciate your input, hard realities included.

I should also add that this dynamic is quite new to me. In past poly relationships I have been one of two couples that were involved with each other on varying levels, and at one point a group of 3 couples. I am struggling with the new dynamics and think I need to just relax and not try and put any sort of labels to things and just appreciate them for what they are. Relationships that enrich both of our lives and therefor our life together.

Thank you very much, for some further understanding on your part and some wise and helpful words, all of which have me in a better place today. =)

 

[WhatHappened]

... she isn't having to put any work into it on the same level. There are no relationship wide decisions and so on.

I guess I'm still not clear, though, what work you want her to do.

Honestly, I was a bit shocked to come and find judgemental responses.... if I wanted judgement I could have walked into the nearest Baptist Church.

...

Maybe next time someone asks for advice or insight you could not rush to conclusions and make assumptions.

Like NYCindie, I didn't feel there was any judgment being made at all. Ironically, that comment about Baptist churches seems a bit critical and judgmental, but maybe it's okay to do that to Baptists?

 

[Effie]

saddled houlicu

Like NYCindie, I didn't feel there was any judgment being made at all. Ironically, that comment about Baptist churches seems a bit critical and judgmental, but maybe it's okay to do that to Baptists?

Actually, I was speaking from my own personal experience in the past. *shrugs* Other than that, i think I pretty much already said that I was likely reading the tone wrong, as someone else suggested, adn I did thank everyone individually for their input, because there was something useful I could take from what everyone said, even if the overall perspective didn't apply to me. =)

Effie, always learning and growing.

 

[Dirtclustit]

If he is honest and she isn't being passive aggressive

then it may just be that you are having problems not being exclusive


That would be a standard response for a bunch of text book non-monogamists that may not practice it, or at least not anywhere near the level the present as their experience as the devil is in the details and there is a pretty big difference between fact and fiction (even when the facts may be true the message conveyed is not even close)

I don't think anybody with experience in openly and honestly practicing non-monogamy will have any trouble understanding what you are complaining about. And it is exactly why "titles" or giving something an official name or removing it doesn't really mean anything nor change anything. It does sound more like either your BF or his GF couldn't handle whatever emotional aspect came with the relationship (such as desiring to listen to their friend and be there if they had a bad day, etc...) it sounds like one had to step away, but while communicating "I can't do this" but I am willing to continue "this" and they have found a dynamic that works for them.

So if you are still having problems with their relationship and you are OK with not being sexually exclusive (ie, it's not just the sex between them that bothers you) whatever it is you don't feel comfortable making it public information, which depending on what it is, may be commendable, but for help you will need to talk people it is safe to discuss your problems with but remember nothing gets done to solve the problems until you talk to him about it

The only other thing I can think of, is similar to new relationship energy. Because yes it does suck when your bf/gf is doing all the fun, non-responsible/chances to let your hair down etc... fun things with other people, but when the not so fun adult responsibilities that we all have to deal with corresponds to the time he spends with you.

Yes that sucks, and maybe you too should tell him that you can't handle all the shit in his life and none of the fun and change your dynamic with him too. I now that sounds kind of cold, because people you care about, you should be there for them during the "not fun" times too. So you might want to be sure he is aware of this and if he doesn't start treating you like he cares, you might want to do what the other gf did and say, I can't handle this, and offer what part of your life you are willing to share, which for her sounds like friendly conversation, but not talking about his problems, and occasional sex.

Don't be a doormat because there are definitely people who will treat you like that and take as much as they can possibly get until you say NO. People like that suck, but you have to be able to see people for how they treat you.

If my guess was off base, then the others may not have been giving you an attitude, because either you are not really OK with being non-exclusive or there is something you aren't willing to say.

But yes, if it is essentially new relationship energy type neglect then yes, there are assholes on the forum, sometimes they play stupid and other times it isn't at all an act, and then there is the common occurrence of treating everything like a debate where reality doesn't matter as much as the reader's perception of who is right and who is wrong for each isolated thread as well as the connected threads where a specific point must be made anytime it appears you are going near a certain topic.

Yes it sucks, yes some people are that shallow, no they will never admit it, if it was cake and they ate it they could have chocolate all over their face and they still would deny it. If they had access to your email or the people you had corresponded with they'd post excerpts ver batum, and still claim they never manipulated any other situation with that knowledge, if they had your house gripped and gave sensitive info to authorities illegally and you were punished or convicted of crimes and misdemeanors, trust me they would know exactly why you broke their nose when you ran into them on the street, and if the claim the have no idea why you did it, it is safe to assume they are lying.

There are numerous people on forums who are honest and have integrity, and are good for their word, and there will always be asshole, manipulators, thieves, crooks, extortionists, etc... the list goes on forever. Yes there are such people in the world, if you are friends or acquaintances I would suggest you accept the things you cannot change, but whether or not you accept them as friends is well within your power, people who do you wrong and don't care enough to make it right, are not your friends, so it may be a good idea to recognize that.