I don't like my metamour :(

P

PolyAus

New member
Hi everyone,

I'm writing this post in the hope that I can get some clarity on a situation that is weighing heavily on my mind this Christmas, possibly because I've been alone and had time to think, I suppose!

I've been in a relationship with Bob for 6 months now. It is NRE central, but both of us honestly believe that long long term is on the cards for us. We are disgustingly happy with each other, and complement each other in an amazing variety of ways. If I believed in such things, I would consider him my "soulmate," and I know without a doubt that he feels the same. I include this to try and indicate that despite the problems below, leaving him is not an option I am willing to consider at this point.

Bob is married to Anne, and has been for more than a decade. They have teenage children, and are also very happy together. They have been poly for a few years, and while she hasn't had much luck with finding serious other relationships for herself, she has dates and play partners. Bob's and my relationship is not of a "secondary" nature, despite this. Neither of us believe in hierarchical poly. Sure, his kids and family come first, but only in case of emergency, and he has plenty of time with all of us. Anne consistently claims that she is happy for me to be in his life.

The problem: Anne and I do not get along. At all. We don't openly argue, or anything of the sort, but we have nothing in common, nothing to talk about, and when we do, I feel as if I am making 99% of the effort and she is treating me like I'm stupid or like a child. She is a fair bit older (16 years) and seems to act as if because I have never had kids/built a house/am generally younger, my opinions hold no value.

Until the last week or so, Bob and I had been discussing the possibility of building a giant communal house with each of us having our own space in a few years. Sure, it's early to be talking about this stuff, but our relationship has become very intense in a short period of time, and mono people move in early all the time, so why shouldn't we talk about it, hey? :) I had always had hopes that this would work out, but lately I am becoming concerned that Anne and I would never be comfortable, even in adjoining but separate houses.

We recently had a very awkward evening out, where I ended up quite upset at being shut down the whole time, so I have currently said that I will no longer be going to visit at their house. While he primarily comes to see me here, anyway, I have been going up for dinner and hangouts with everyone and I can't take the awkwardness any more.

So, questions: how have others managed strained metamour relationships?

We're only 6 months in. Is there hope for things to settle as we move longer down the track, even if we don't like each other? Is not having anything to do with her sustainable in the longer term? We have some overlap in friends, but I can bow out of events she will be at.

Should I try to talk to her personally about this? Does anyone have any advice for how to approach this? I know this seems a fricking stupid question but I'm not sure how to say "So, you don't like me. I don't like you. How do we deal with this, because Bob is not leaving either of us any time soon?"

Thanks all. Sorry for the long-winded post.

PolyAus
 
It's very easy to misread situations in daily life, and what you're talking about is far from daily life. :)

Perhaps Anne is nervous because you are 16 years younger than she is. Perhaps she is a bit envious of your youth and the NRE. Perhaps because of these things (or others I haven't thought of), she puts on a tough facade.

The only way you'll ever know is through communication. However, I certainly would not start out the conversation with "I know you don't like me; and I don't like you." I would try something far more diplomatic, along the lines of, "I notice we're kind of awkward around each other, and I wonder if there's something we could do to make us both more comfortable?" She may not respond right away, but if she is really just feeling insecure herself, you might be able to break through and turn it all around.

While, yes, there are people that are hard to get along with, no matter what you do, probably a greater percentage of them just have the tough facade thing going and that can often be brought down. Underneath, there often lies a relatively nice person, once their insecurities are laid to rest.
 
From my lofty position of 11 months into a relationship where I'm dating a married poly guy, my advice is: do not tell her that you don't like her.

Don't assume that she doesn't like you, either.

I wouldn't avoid her as much as it seems that you are planning to. I would stay civil, polite, and continue to try to communicate directly with her if things come up that you need to talk about. Don't make your lover a go-between.

You do not need to be bestest buddies with her. You do not need to have interests in common. You will have better results if you listen to what she says and do not apply any motivations or meanings beyond what she says.

Seriously. Don't let your imagination loose on what she might be feeling, or what she might mean. It is stressful for you and tends to make mountains out of molehills. She may have no idea that you think she is shutting you down or that you think she is disregarding your opinions.

Also, 6 months is a short period of time. I'm also not certain how much experience you have with poly. You say they have been poly for several years, but are you new to this? I know that I said never to assume your metamour's feelings, but I detected some relaxation on my metamour's part as I found a second lover besides her husband (demonstrating that I was likely not a "cowgirl"). Also, things seem more relaxed 11 months in than they were at the 6-month mark, for me.
 
Just a thought, but when you are planning 'communal living' at a stage of NRE and 6 months in, this could be why Anne doesn`t take you very seriously.

Maybe she has been witness to Bob`s grandiose ideas before. Or maybe she isn`t taking you two seriously until you are both past the NRE. Who knows? You say she hasn`t been 'successful' in looking for a long-term relationship. Are you sure about your outlook on that? She could be a person that is perfectly happy not rushing into things. If that were the case, she is most likely only judging you by her own standards.

If she is happy for Bob, and doesn`t interfere in plans, dates, or try to get him to end things with you, I doubt you are dealing with jealousy over your 'youth' or whatever else.

Also, it sounds like Anne might be trying to 'educate' you on things you have no experience in. It feels undermining to you. Rather then start a tug-o-war about this, why not actually take her advice on things she has experience with? Ask questions. Learn.

The things you have experience with in life, you can take the lead on those topics. Set an example, and maybe she'll ask questions in turn, and your
confidence will receive a boost.
 
SourGirl said:
When you are planning 'communal living' at 6 months in, this could be why Anne doesn`t take you very seriously.

Maybe she has been witness to Bob`s grandiose ideas before, or maybe she isn`t taking you two seriously until you are both past the NRE. Who knows? You say she hasn`t been 'successful' in looking for a long-term relationship. Are you sure about your outlook on that? She could be perfectly happy not rushing into things. If that were the case, she is most likely only judging you by her own standards.

If she is happy for Bob, and doesn`t interfere in plans, dates, or try to get him to end things with you, I doubt you are dealing with jealousy over your 'youth' or whatever else.

Also, it sounds like Anne might be trying to 'educate' you on things you have no experience in. It feels undermining to you. Rather then start a tug-o-war about this, why not actually take her advice on things she has experience with? Ask questions. Learn. The things you have experience with in life, you can take the lead on. Set an example, and maybe she'll ask questions in turn, and your confidence will receive a boost.
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I have to agree with you. Being older doesn't necessarily mean that she is more mature and experienced than you. But it helps.

mono people move in early all the time, so why shouldn't we talk about it?
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I've seen a lot of relationships fail because everybody decided to rush into things. But sure, I've also seen exceptions..."soul mates" or whatever.

I'd recommend talking to her. A bit of communication couldn't hurt. Right now, you're throwing a lot of assumptions around.
 
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Thanks for the comments

Hi all,

I'm pondering everything that's been said, so I'll address some questions and clarify some things now, but I'm not ignoring anything else that's been said!

Regarding moving in, we're certainly not making concrete plans at this stage, or talking about living plans all the time, or anything like that. We've only really discussed this because we wanted to be on the same page about the possibilities of where this might end up. It was certainly never set up as an ultimatum or anything like that (to reiterate that Bob isn't feeling pressured into something he doesn't want to do), but we talked about these things early to get an idea of where each of us would be comfortable with the relationship heading in terms of life entanglement.

Regarding Anne's other relationship attempts, in the time I've known her, she's had two people she has been excited about getting into a relationship with, had a bunch of dates within a couple of weeks, and then they have broken down, for some reason. While she might have a different, more relaxed, relationship development style than me, from what I have seen, she would happily get into deeper relationships quickly if the right person came up.

Regarding my polyness, I'm not really all that experienced, for certain. I have been involved in open relationships for many years, but polyamory is newer, not through lack of wanting it, per se, but because it hasn't come up. I have another relationship apart from Bob, but it is far more casual. I am definitely open to another relationship (would welcome one, in fact) but really, I've met most of the local openly poly people in person, and on OKCupid, and I haven't clicked with any of them. Relationships don't come easily to me.

Regarding interacting with Anne, I agree, I probably should assume her intentions less. When it comes down to it, though, I don't have the energy to maintain interactions with her any more. In general life, I would never be friends with someone who spoke to me like she does (regardless of intentions), and I would be far more forthcoming with telling them that they were offending me. But I've been civil because of our situation. It's draining as all hell.

Sorry, this last bit was a bit of a vent. I've been trying not to burden Bob or our mutual friends with discussing this, because it's not fair to put them in awkward situations like that.
 
PolyAus said:
We don't openly argue or anything of the sort, but we have nothing in common, nothing to talk about, and when we do, I feel as if I am making 99% of the effort and she is treating me like I'm stupid or like a child. She is a fair bit older (16 years) and seems to act as if because I have never had kids/built a house/am generally younger my opinions hold no value.
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If this is why you feel like she doesn't like you, you might want to reevaluate. I tend to surround myself with people who are at least 10 years older than I am. They have a tendency to 'talk down' to me by saying I wouldn't understand since I haven't experienced it, calling me 'the baby' since I am the youngest person in the group, or other random references to the fact that they have been around longer than I have.

It bugs me, but if I really care about the person that is doing it, I explain what is going on, and usually I hear "OMG, I didn't even realize I do that!" After that, things usually get better. You might try just explaining that you feel bad when she acts differently towards you just because of the age difference/different life experiences.
 
So this could be more succinct, but it's 3 am and wont be. I like my metamour quite a bit from our emailing/meetings together, and she says she likes me, but because of the circumstances, it seems like she and I will never be great friends, hang out, etc.

We've met a couple of times. I'd like a happy poly family sorta thing, where I hang out with my husband's and boyfriend's partners (including his wife, the metamour in question) but she just is not into that. I would like my husband to want to be good friends with my bf, because I think they'd like each other if they spent the time to make the effort, but he just isn't into it.

The point is, what I want, and what others want, aren't always going to be the same. I am not going to avoid social situations where we would both be there. If my husband and/or I are invited somewhere, and she is, I will go if I want to. There's no reason at all for you to not go where you want to go. You have not indicated any reason why you aren't wanted. It just seems that you want to withdraw because she doesn't want to be your BFF. I imagine if she weren't married to your boyfriend, you wouldn't care about her opinion enough to worry about if you should or shouldn't go to a party/club/etc.

So, maybe you will, maybe you won't, all live in a communal house someday. I wouldn't put so much focus on that at all now. It's early days. I have an ex-husband who has spent the last 20 years following pipe dreams about "grand plans" which have only now finally started panning out, and it left an ugly taste in my mouth all the times his grand schemes ended up going nowhere. So I second the idea that perhaps she just has heard her husband talk about all sorts of wild ideas that aren't necessarily going to be around in another 6 months.

Why should his wife want to be your best friend? Why don't you just focus on your lovely relationship with your boyfriend?

I am not just siding with Anne because of my username, but really, I (as a 39 year old person) probably wouldn't invest too much energy in my partner's relationships if I don't have a ton in common with them. I don't take it personally when they don't want to hang out with me more than occasionally. His partners tend to like me. They just have busy lives and other shit to do. Also I've found his OSO's partners are also fulfilled and not sitting around hoping for company. But I think it's great when there is a reason for a friendship.

I just want to say, over-reading into it and trying to distance yourself from events, or to "punish" her for just not being "that into you" by avoiding her is not a useful tactic for anybody. I am sure she thinks you are perfectly nice (or her husband would know it) but just doesn't want to spend her limited free time hanging out with you, if she could be doing something more fulfilling or enjoyable. Don't take it personally. Just because you are nice doesn't mean your metamour wants to spend hours talking to you about anything.

As others have said, if she isn't hostile, interrupting your dates, or out to get you, consider yourself blessed. The older we get, the more we realize life is finite and that no minute should be wasted doing anything we don't want to wholeheartedly do.
 
PolyAus, consider this: do you think you might be projecting your own insecurities onto your metamour? You say you don't subscribe to a hierarchical structure, but perhaps there is still a fear in you about being "second" anyway. Maybe it is you who compares yourself to her and enters situations with a chip on your shoulder, so to speak. Not an angry chip, necessarily, but an insecure one.

It sounds like you feel as if there is some sort of mark against you for being younger, less experienced, not a parent, etc. And since that's an uncomfortable place to be, maybe you turned it around in your mind to assume that she is jealous or resentful toward you because of it? She may not be that at all.

And perhaps there is some apprehension you feel about moving in together, but you're putting all the "blame" on his wife, to say she will be the one who will make it difficult for you, but you might be overlooking some fears and nervousness you have in yourself about it.

Just something to think about.
 
I have two metamours that have been in my life for 2-3 years. My girlfriend's husband and I get along well enough. We have a healthy respect for one another and come together when need be in support of our shared love. We don't really hang out except if we are at the same function. We don't have a ton in common and would likely not be close friends, but we work on making sure we communicate when necessary and laugh and joke around when we are in each other's company. To me, it's just what I expect and feel comfortable with. I have my own relationship with his wife and he is ever present, but not overbearing. It works for me.

My other metamour I don't see unless our families go camping. I send her funny links to videos, buy the kids gifts for Christmas and birthdays and sometimes arrange play dates for our kids. She never reaches out to me, doesn't want to spend time with me, disagrees with a lot of what I believe in, talks through her husband a lot of the time, and if there were ever an emergency, I would likely not hear about it from her. It breaks my heart, but I keep doing what I am doing in the hopes of change. I don't want to be her best friend, but I do want to be considered and our kids to be thought of, as they are friends. I think she doesn't think about me at all and prefers it that way. A "Don't ask don't tell" kind of thing, maybe? I'm not sure.

PN has had loves come and go, and I quite often don't really want to know them much. They tend to be a lot like me, and while that is kinda cute at first, all the things I struggle with about myself I find come up for me. I try and just be friendly, considerate, give them space and remain present if I am needed in some way.

I don't think metamours have to be long-lost siblings and best friends. It think that you would do best to keep the boundary of not hanging out at their house, and enjoy your partner when you are with him. It sounds like you two are doing great, and might even be great for communal living some day, but the work you will need to do is with her. The dream of communal living is a nice one, but it won't work if your relationship doesn't bloom with his wife. I wouldn't invest too much into that for a few years and just have a good time with what you have.

There are some threads here on "metamours" if you are interested in going to the search engine and looking at the tags. Maybe you will find something that is helpful.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I never really wanted to be besties with Anne, far from it, actually. I just want us to be able to be polite in each other's company, maybe all be able to attend the same event, if we all wanted to go, without it being uncomfortable, and communicate when we need to. Maybe I am underestimating how hard I'm trying and I'm being overbearing, but I don't interact with her online or ask her to spend time with me one-on-one. I only go to their house when Bob asks and has checked with her first, which isn't very often. Really, all I would hope for is that she take a few minutes to say hi when I'm there, and use basic manners when interacting with me.

Why is this such a big deal to me? Having no hope for more life entanglement with Bob in the future is a major problem. So if Anne and I can't work something out in the future where I'm not the one making all the effort, then I don't really know how Bob and I will pan out. I'm not okay with seeing him only twice a week for the rest of my life-- put it that way.
 
Hmm... Okay. If I were Anne, I might see some red flags in your thoughts and behavior toward Bob and your relationship. It sounds like you have your mind made up about how it all should go and how your future looks with this man, but you resent the hell out of his wife. Not good!

In the throes of NRE, my husband's ex-partner would plan out the future with him, with no thought to include me or ask my opinion about how I felt about 'their' plans. It didn't sit well with me, and I don't think it would sit well with you if the tables were turned. I think you need to lay off the long-term planning with Bob, relax (it's only been 6 months!) and stop trying to push an agenda. Just enjoy getting to know him and enjoy your time together. Women are very intuitive, so I think Anne may let down her guard if she isn't getting the vibe from you that you are trying to move in and re-arrange her life in such a short period of time. My opinion only, of course. :)
 
JnR said:
If I were Anne, I might see some red flags in your thoughts and behavior toward Bob and your relationship. It sounds like you have your mind made up about all it all should go and how your future looks with this man, but you resent the hell out of his wife. Not good! In the throes of NRE, my husband's ex partner would plan out the future with him, with no thought to include me or ask my opinion about how I felt about 'their' plans. It didn't sit well, and I don't think it would sit well with you if the tables were turned. I think you need to lay off the long-term planning with Bob, relax (it's only been 6 months!) and stop trying to push an agenda. Just enjoy getting to know him and enjoy your time together. Women are very intuitive, so I think Anne may let down her guard if she isn't getting the vibe from you that you are trying to move in and re-arrange her life in such a short period of time.
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I agree with this.
 
I can see how it seems that I'm planning the future with him too much. I will to try to cut out all of that. Despite that though, most of the "planning" in regards to me possibly building a house with them years down the track has been between Anne and Bob. The first mention of this came up when I asked Bob once, "Where do you see us headed?" as a fairly general question, when we had been talking about my plans to buy an apartment alone and what areas might be good for real estate prices, and then he came back a few days later with a few hazy suggested plans for what he'd like to see happen with regards to us all living together that he and Anne had come up with. Every so often there'd be a little mention of "Anne would really like X in the house when we all live together," and that would be that. I've never even mentioned it around her, because for me, it's way too early to consider this as anything other than a possibility, and certainly there are no proper plans on either side as to the practicalities of it.

To be fair, I have no idea if Bob is talking about this a lot with her and making it seem like we're all running off and planning to do this next week, but I can't be in the room with him all the time. :p
 
There's nothing saying that you have to be friends with a metamour, but if you aren't, I wouldn't suggest moving in together... ever. It's just going to make for a miserable living situation for all of you. Why are you feeling like you have to all live together? Is there a possibility that as your relationship develops that you will be able to ask for more time with him? Also, if he can't meet all your needs, is there anything preventing you from finding another relationship to fill those unmet needs?
 
Maybe Bob is going on about it too much, and too lost in his NRE when he is at home. Maybe it has little to do with you at all. Maybe he is just freaking annoying and Anne wants this NRE stage to end. I agree with those that think you should hang on and wait. It has only been 6 months. That is nothing compared to the stabilizing that occurs from years of being together. You barely know each other in terms of how much time you could have together.

As to the manners bit, I have a friend at work that really gets angry when someone has bad manners. She takes it very personally and revolves all her friendship relationships around that. I didn't know that until recently. I have been going through the realization that manners can be let go and I will survive. I have a thing about good manners, too. She asked me if I was angry with her and it began a discussion that has lasted months and has taken a lot of figuring out.

The long and the short of it is: let go of the good manners on her part and be as kind and smiley and considerate as possible. It might annoy the hell out of you, but I bet, in some time, that she turns around and accepts your being a lovely gracious host to people in your life and starts acting the same way back to you. "Do unto others," and all that.
 
Thanks for the advice, everyone. Based on your suggestions, I'm going to try again with her, at some point. I need some space from her for a while to let me build up the energy to try and be friendly-no-matter-what again, but I'll get there, I guess!
 
metamour

Having lived in a poly family for almost five years now (I am the other wife, you might say) I can only say from experience that in my opinion if you are ever going to truly feel compersion and happiness as another partner, you have to get along and have some kind of love and connection with your metamour. I knew and know that if this is going to last a lifetime, like I intend it to, you have to give a lot of your heart to your metamour too.

Now, I don't have a sexual relationship with my partner's wife, but I love her like my wife. To me, she is my spouse as much as he is. If you don't have that in-depth of a commitment to your metamour, then in my opinion (and this is only if you are looking at the long term and especially if you want to live together), your relationship will not have the strength and oomph to survive the inevitable fights, hard times, illness, etc., that comes along in a marriage and relationship. It will get ugly and people will take sides and the already weak foundation will dissolve without love behind it. I don't think I'd ever get in a poly relationship if I didn't love and feel committed to my metamour. I think it is unfair and cheats everyone involved. She deserves something out of this too. This is so true if you actually want to live like a big happy family!
 
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What to Do When You Hate Your Metamour?

Hey all. I'm new to this board but not new to polyamory. My husband's been poly for 4-5 years, me for about two.

Here's my dilemma: I hate the ex-lover of my husband, but he wants to start up with her again after a three-year hiatus.

My question: If I hate her (and I mean the type of hate reserved for child molesters and serial killers), can this possibly work? If so, how can I or we make it work? And if I just can't make it work, is it okay to say, "I'm truly sorry, hon, but I just can't do it"?

The back story: We are college sweethearts. Married more than 20 years. One teenager together. Very much in love and each seeing a secondary and we all get along. His gf is single. My bf is married.

Before we were poly, about five years ago, husband and his ex-lover had an affair, I found out. I was devastated. They stopped, or so they told me. I later found out this was not true.

Then, about 8 months later, he asked for an open relationship and asked to see her. I was not thrilled, but consented. I was not poly and was not interested in seeing anyone else, but I loved my husband and realized this was important to him. So I agreed to try it and see, with certain rules. Plus, I did not like her for personal reasons and because she lied to me and tried to break up my marriage. Yes, she admitted that she wanted him to leave me. Her husband found out about the affair and kicked her out.

So, they dated for a year. She pushed the boundaries at every turn, always wanting more and hoping he would leave me, but pretending otherwise. He was clear about the rules and told her that if she could not get along with me, that was a dealbreaker. Eventually it ended in major drama on her part and accusing me of all manner of Machiavellian machinations... only some of which were true. ;)

However, he really liked spending time with her. And even though they broke up more than two years ago, she pestered him for over a year to get back together and he still misses her.

Which brings us to today. My husband has a healthy relationship with a great gal. No drama, but also higher maintenance. He would rather spend time with his ex-lover, or at least add her into the mix. However, I simply can't stand the thought of her in our lives again. My blood pressure actually rises and I see red. I sincerely wish her ill. The year they dated was the hardest of my life.

I try to play this out in my head. What if I have no contact with her? If we are just honest and say we don't like each other and we won't interact? Would that work? How do I get around the feeling of contempt for my husband's interest in someone universally looked down upon in my/our social circle, whom I do not trust and who causes me great anxiety because she is such a disruptive force?

So, I guess what I am asking is, do I have to suck it up because it's not my gf, it's his? Or do I exercise veto power -- which I don't like to do obviously, because I want my husband to be happy, and say, "Honey, I truly wish the thought of her in your life did not make my blood boil, but it does"?

Thanks for your insight.

CC
 
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