I'm sad it's ended.

@Annabel

I know a fair amount of people who found swinging to be right up their alley, whereas polyamory was too much 'bullshit' for them. They dropped poly and went to swinging, and it worked better for them. I guess, in a way, I'm one of those people! 'Open' works better for me. It`s about what suits you, and who you are. So just like you can upgrade from swinging to poly, there are people who upgrade from poly to swinging.

There are swingers who like 'exclusive swinging.' You can have true friendship, respect, and warm feelings without being all in loooooove. It's not what a good 50-70% of swingers want, but they do exist. Like anything else, it is a matter of being real with yourself, and figuring out what you truly want.

In poobah`s case, I think halting all productions and getting to the core of the issues is the only thing that needs to happen for a while. At this point, my comment is merely for future readers.
 
What is the reason you have for halting all of Sarah's activity? Jealousy? I don't get it. Why not let her go do her thing? If you aren't interested, then spend your time doing your work. What's the difference between then and now? I think you are choosing to see this as something it isn't. If she were out to a knitting club, it wouldn't be any different. She could be out doing her thing, and you doing yours, and you could set a once-a-week date night to spend time building and securing your bond.

Yeah, swinging doesn't seem to be the answer. It sounds like she feels trapped. Let her go do her thing and avoid triggers that make you jealous until things have settled into a routine. Having a date night would give you a chance to create a routine that includes closeness to her.

Why are you concerned with not being attracted to this woman you are now just friends with? If the NRE is over and you don't feel like fucking her, then you don't feel like fucking her. No biggie. Things change. It was fun, now it's not.

I'm not understanding why you are even thinking about it. It seems we are two very different people. The amount of stress you seem to create over things that are of little consequence to me I find fascinating. The two of you sound so tightly wound up! 🤨
 
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@SourGirl

I respect anyone's choice to go the swinging route. My thought was that if poobah's problem was with Sarah being in love with someone else, swinging might seem like a good plan, because it would sidestep that issue. But when we see so many stories here of people who thought they were just after sex, and then freaked out when they fell in love, I wouldn't consider it a solution, because there's no reason for us to assume that Sarah can, in fact, separate sex and love.

It occurs to me, though, that I may be way off base in my understanding of the situation. I'm not sure now what exactly made me assume the emotions involved were the problem. Poobah, what was the source of your discomfort with Sarah and Sam's relationship, taking Sunny out of the equation for a minute?
 
The way I was reading it was that Sarah got upset that Sunny developed feelings for poobah, not the other way around, and that Sarah suggested swinging because she likes the sexual rush and doesn't want to worry about emotions being involved.

Original quote:
She was mad at Sam for something stupid, BUT was harboring tons of anger towards Sunny for falling in love with me. It all came out yesterday.
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Of course, I could have read that wrong, as well.

RedPepper, my take on why poobah wanted to stop all sexual relations with the other couple was that he and Sarah were not healthy as a couple when they began going out with the other couple. In fact, they were on the verge of divorcing.

Original Quote:
It's been a tough ride for me. We almost lost our marriage, then we got it back, but with others involved. I was thinking today that maybe I need time to build this new relationship with my wife first, before I can be mature enough to handle polyamory. I'm afraid of the future. I don't want to lose my wife.

... The marriage was almost over. Literally 11th-hour type over. How could we build anything with another involved?
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If they were a healthy couple, I could see your point about not having Sarah end her own relationship just because poobah isn't into it anymore. But I don't see how continuing an open relationship would help, when the original couple should never really have ventured there, before dealing with their own shit.

I see this suggestion a lot, and my own feeling is that if a couple were myopic enough to date other people when they were in no position to do so healthfully, then maybe stepping back and taking a moment to just be together as a couple, at least long enough to do the work on their relationship (or figure out it isn't working and separate) might be the right thing to do.

Everybody always says that it's not a good idea to have "relationship broken, add more people." So why does that advice suddenly seem to be seen as null and void when they've already made the mistake to venture forth? It's as if once you go into poly, you're stuck with that, even if you did it prematurely and your primary relationship can't handle it yet.

BTW, this isn't directed entirely at you, RedPepper. I've seen this advice a lot lately from a lot of different people. And I agree with that advice of "Why should they have to leave what makes them happy because you're having issues?" in a lot of cases. But when people want to start dating other people when, and sometimes specifically because, their primary relationship is a mess, and they don't do the work to fix that first, that basically, to me, just seems selfish and like escapism.
 
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If the issue is really that they were not having a healthy relationship to begin with, then yeah, I agree. Take a break and figure out what is going on. Work on creating a solid relationship again. What I don't get is where jealousy gets mixed up in that. I guess it seems to me that there are two stories going on here, and I am unclear which is the situation, which isn't, and if they are related, how?

Tell me where I am not getting it, if you please.

First off, I hear that poobah asked Sarah to go on hold with Sam while they sort their relationship out. She doesn't want to, Sam and Sunny don't want to, but are anyway, and poobah is feeling guilty about that.

Second of all, I hear that he is feeling jealous and that he called it off because he is not in love with Sunny, and just wants to be friends. I don't understand what the jealousy is about. Jealous that they are all in love? Jealous because he isn't attracted and they are? Jealous because Sarah could continue on with Sam, and he doesn't want to continue with Sunny, and will be left with no one? Unclear. What is the fear or threat?

The first scenario makes me want to say, "Yeah, take a break from all of it. You would do better to sort out your marriage and then go back to the couple and see about creating something with them, in some kind of quad configuration."

The second makes me think that the jealousy should be dealt with and that there is no reason that Sarah should stop seeing Sam. Poobah could bow out and get the encouragement and support he needs to get through the fear and threats that the jealousy seems to be based on.

The thing I find with poly is that nothing really has to be over, just adjusted. If you like these people and they are fun to be with, good support, loving, kind, caring... whatever value you want to add that makes you connect with people, then why end it all?

Friendships and poly partners are pretty closely linked, for me. They are my extended family. I choose them to be in my life because they fit, not because of rules, boundaries, compromises, sexual encounters, who does what when (even though that is all important stuff, too). If you still want these people in your life, and it makes you all miserable that they aren't, then have them in your life and negotiate what that means. Ending it all is an option for those that don't want people in their lives and who feel that they would be better off to go in a different direction.

I guess it comes down to a matter of which direction to take, and if you both have different ideas of that, how to make it so you can both do what you want to do and still be together.
 
Minxxa said:
Everybody always says that it's not a good idea to have "relationship broken, add more people". So why does that advice suddenly seem to be seen as null and void when they've already made the mistake to venture forth? It's as if once you go into poly, you're stuck with that, even if you did it prematurely and your primary relationship can't handle it yet.
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I think every effort should be made to NOT enter a relationship when you're not ready, but once you're in it and hearts are involved, every effort should be made not to break up two people who care for each other, unless the relationship has reached a natural death. As someone whose primary experience of polyamory has been as a secondary, I have a real sensitivity and trigger about the idea of my relationship having to end because of problems totally outside of what's going on with me and my partner. I can understand why it might have to happen, but I think it could leave a deep scar, because there'd be this lack of resolution, potentially more so than if the relationship ended for its own reasons.
 
AnnabelMore said:
I think every effort should be made to NOT enter a relationship when you're not ready, but once you're in it and hearts are involved, every effort should be made not to break up two people who care for each other unless the relationship has reached a natural death. As someone whose primary experience of poly has been as a secondary, I have a real sensitivity and trigger about the idea of my relationship having to end because of problems totally outside of what's going on with me and my partner. I can understand why it might have to happen, but I think it could leave a deep scar because there'd be this lack of resolution, potentially more so than if the relationship ended for its own reasons.
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I totally understand where you're coming from, AnnabelMore. And I agree that the person who got pulled into an unhealthy relationship is in a bad place, and I wouldn't wish for them to get hurt.

But here's the thing that hits me (and I admit I'm very very triggered by this as well, but from the other side) -- the person who loses in all of this is the person whose partner went out and started a relationship when they shouldn't have. At this point, it ends up being a choice of either sucking it up and trying to fix your relationship while your partner is knee-deep in NRE, and not as motivated (and that's if they remember you're still there at all), or leave the relationship.

And here's another thing-- if a person is not in a secure relationship, then of course they feel insecure, because the relationship isn't secure! Being in an insecure situation will make you feel insecure. That's a feeling based in reality. It's a warning that things are not right, and shouldn't be ignored.

RedPepper, Sarah was very jealous that Sunny had developed feelings for Poobah, so they are both dealing with insecurity and jealousy, and not handling the emotions well. To me, this indicates that they need to work on themselves, individually and as a couple, before they are involved with other people whose hearts may be on the line.

Plus, I don't think Poobah, originally, or I, in any of my posts, suggested ending the relationship. I think that asking for six months or so for the couple to get their hard work done isn't that big of a request, and in the end, will benefit everybody involved, including their OSOs. I believe Poobah asked for a respite, and only asked for the sexual aspect to be curtailed while they work on things, not that they stop seeing each other at all.

Honestly, I would think a healthy person would be okay with that, knowing that if the work is done there will be a healthier relationship for all involved at some point.

Just my thoughts...
 
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I do get where you're coming from, Minx. And frankly, as an OSO, I would pause the situation myself if I realized that our relationship was ruining my partner's primary relationship. I don't want to be responsible for that, nor do I want to see my loved one lose something so important. I realize that may sound contradictory to what I said before, but I think it's a balance between not just abandoning secondary relationships when things get tough and recognizing when there's no good way to proceed.
 
And see... I would be that way too. I would want the person I'm with to be secure in their other relationships and take the time to do that before we went further. Both for their benefit, and selfishly for mine, because I'd know that if their primary relationship were secure, we'd be in a better spot, as well. I really don't like the drama, so anything that can keep that away wins, in my book!

Personally, I just saw in Poobah's postings (one-sided as they are), a lot of unfinished work with both him and his wife. And not dealing with it doesn't help them, or the people they've involved themselves with.
 
Hi.

Really bad night. I lost it last night and told Sunny it was over. I told her it had become a friendship, that I'd lost the desire to be romantically involved with her, or to be physical with her.

I'd just had another down moment when I struggled with why I don't feel that way. I reached my breaking point and decided that I didn't want to hurt anybody anymore with the okay/not okay drama.

Obviously, everyone took it really hard. Sarah is really hurt by this. This morning, being a true Scorpio, she stabbed me. She said she didn't love me "like that," and didn't think things between us would work. Later this afternoon she retracted from this and said she is just having a hard time coping. Still, I wonder if our marriage will have what it takes to make it on its own.

Through this, I realize something really sad. I had problems with this. I have always had problems making decisions, but this made it worse. My inability to make a decision itself wore me down. I had major jealousy, anger and lots of negative emotions in my life. Some due to this, some not. My own problems, my own drama made me feel this way. I should have gone for help sooner. I keep asking myself-- "If only I'd gotten the help I needed sooner, to find the root of the problem, would I have found peace with this and really enjoyed it?"

As I expected, I miss Sunny today. However, I'm sad because I know I ruined any chance of us ever being that way. I'm also sad for Sarah, who is now dealing with a loss. No, I did not ask her to stop, or get Sam out of her life. She is convinced I would never be okay. She asked me. I told her the truth. It would be hurting me if it continued. I had thought throughout this time to just find someone else to take me away from my inner turmoil. In this state of mind all it would take is someone else to come along and I would not have a chance at saving my marriage. My children would not have a full-time father.

I am fine with them being friends, as I keep an open mind, and still desire to be friends with Sunny.

FYI, on the swinging thing, Sarah admitted she was looking to replace what she was losing. She said she was still intrigued, but it probably was not what she really wanted.
 
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