including her into our D/S Ddlg relationship and home

[BlackbirdDdlg]

Hi there, I have been trying to look for my answer surfing the Internet up and down, left and right, for days with no luck. So I thought I'll put it out there in hope to get for the very least indication on were can I find the answers and guidance to my questions.

My husband and I are a D/S couple since the first time we met 8 years ago. Since we moved in together 3 years ago, our relationship has shaped itself into a happy D/S Ddlg relationship, fitting better with everyday life, personal goals and growth, career, mutual respect and care.

We have been actively looking for over a year and half for a third woman to include into our playtime and/or relationship. However nothing was ever defined truly until we met this girl that is into TPE 24/7, and after chatting a lot we her we all realised several things: in order to be a healthy and stable relationship for every party involved it needs to respect basic human needs for it to work: implying everyone needs for self-esteem, love, self-growth, sens of belonging, safety and happiness.

So from the (very quickly ditched) original idea of getting a "submissive sex-maid living with us only for our own desires and needs" we are now considering other form of poly/third/sub-relationship (I have no idea how to call it) to include her with all the respect, love and care we want to give to her, and that after chatting about she believes is necessary to make it last. She loves her sport, she has a job and a social life, we don't see how anyone would not sink into a very dark place if cut out of these important things anyone needs in life.

We are aware that a lot of ground-rules will need to be established with any party able to ask for them to be reconsidered at any time during conversation that includes all of us.
The three of us have have already define and agreed upon on two aspects of this future Us.
1- it will be a close-relationship: we defined it as "no-one else can join and no party (him=dom and us=subs) is allowed to have sexual and/or emotional relationships outside."

2 - A hierarchy will exist into our household. Doesn't have to be a bdsm hierarchy, but we are all agreeing on him being above both of us in the hierarchy, and her finding herself below me, her own words "She will always be my superior. I don't want to be her replacement in any way just an addition to you both"


Any advice on how to discuss it further between the three of us? We are looking for any information and recommendations that is necessary to help us finalise the definition of the three of us new relationship before we jump ahead and welcome her to our home?
We are considering a trial session of two weeks for all of us to test out our position fitting into this new Us. We are believing that the "down-time" after the trial (where she will go back to her place) will allow each of us to mature and finalise the definition of what we are trying to create together while respecting everyone's needs and seeks.

Any suggestions on what to consider, what to establish, what to test for? I am really hoping we are not the only one in that situation, it feels like we don't fall in any category out there defining poly and BDSM....

Thank you alll!

 

[Ravenscroft]

Though not comprehensive, a few points do jump out.

For the greater audience, DDLG = "Daddy Dom / little girl" play.

We have been looking for a third woman

A "third"?

we met this girl ... and after chatting a lot we her

Have you actually yet met, as in face-to-face? Though I'm maybe an oddball, I cannot tell if I'm truly attracted to someone -- as opposed to the concept of her -- before I can speak with her directly. It sounds much as though you're talking yourselves into loving a concept rather than a person. There are difficulties with that.

(Everything from pheromones to voice tone to stance is significant for me. With my luck, I'd meet the ideal woman only to find that she always squeezes the toothpaste tube from the middle. )

IME, subs intend to be the center of attention. Two subs sharing a top...? Eh, maybe. Two "24/7" subs? Oh, wow; the makings of a turf war. Two such playing the same role? Having been called "the scary guy" in my time, I would run from that. While "she will always be my superior" is a nice sentiment, it will need to be demonstrable.

FWIW, you are proposing polyfidelity much more than polyamory. Polyfi, particularly vee/triad, tends to stray closer to monogamy than to polyamory.

We are considering a trial session of two weeks ... the "down-time" after the trial (where she will go back to her place) will allow each of us to mature and finalise the definition

A single "honeymoon" is far from sufficient to even understand what questions need to be asked, much less to setlle all the critical issues. Why the need to rush forward?

I do think it could be fruitful if there were more discussion of how to align the egalitarian ideals of polyamory with a yin/yang power dynamic. I've never been interested in 24/7 so I can't speak to it.

 

[BlackbirdDdlg]

A "third"?

Sorry english is not my mother tongue, I am french native but being living in Australia for 9 years now. When I came in Oz I didn't speak any engligsh, I still make a lot of mistakes, especially in writing.

Have you actually yet met, as in face-to-face? Though I'm maybe an oddball, I cannot tell if I'm truly attracted to someone -- as opposed to the concept of her -- before I can speak with her directly. It sounds much as though you're talking yourselves into loving a concept rather than a person. There are difficulties with that.

Agree with you on that point, and we have been talking on a dating website for 10months, and had several webcam chat as well. To tell the complete truth, she doesn't currently lives in the same country... Yes I know, I can hear you lecturing us already... And you would all be probably right.

With my luck, I'd meet the ideal woman only to find that she always squeezes the toothpaste tube from the middle. )

Bwahahaha! you're funny!
I do agree with you that living arrangement are generally the most difficult ones to settle upon and overcome, as well as budget/expenses arrangement. However if we keep going with her desire to be in TPE relationship with us, there is a lot of things that can be trained to the desired behaviour. Then again, controlling or retraining the way one squeeze the toothpaste tube would be micromanaging to such an extend that it would be weary and tiresome very quickly to the whole of us. It end up making us all pretty miserable and disinterested on the long term I reckon...

IME, subs intend to be the center of attention. Two subs sharing a top...? Eh, maybe. Two "24/7" subs? Oh, wow; the makings of a turf war. Two such playing the same role?

Hmm true you are right, and even if I feel comfortable with the idea of having someone else included in our lives, I do imagine that being in the exact same level than the other sub would blurr the line between my relationship with my dom (and daddy, and husband) and her relationship with her dom (and friend, and whatever else shaping itself if that happens...)

He has, I had, and we had tried to question her concept of tpe and what she seeks by many times and many different ways. She always stick to the same ideal she has in her mind (I think it's re-ensuring, because it means she really know what she is looking for). It is always involving daily services, including chores and house-keeping, and sexual submission and services. But we already know that we are not interested in getting a "24/7 caged unpaid maid", basically that would be inhuman.
And there is were it is difficult to define what we are creating.... I don't believe we really are looking at a true poly, however we would be happy to create a deeper and more meaningful relationship with another sub.

So if I am working and have more say into the households decisions, she might not be working and be another level of submissive somehow below me. Which is hard for me to conceive...

Why the need to rush forward?

Exactly! I do believe that my Master/Daddy/Hubby is somehow and very subtly "rushing" it or trying to corner her or us into following him into this... But at the same time, he has let me slow it down as much as I wanted, he listened to all my concerns, answered all my questions, and made decision that would consider and satisfy my needs and feelings, even when I changed my mind (because I am a girl remember)

But you are right, I also questioned him just yesterday why he hasn't considered me for TPE training, and why all the sudden this is something he is considering but for someone else. Because I used to work from home when we met, and would be more than happy to do it again and take on the journey where we left it years ago: becoming a true slave.

He promised me that we are talking some more about it tonight

 

[BlackbirdDdlg]

Bear in mind that all relationship are forever evolving, and I believe that is our strength as a couple, and why I married him.
However since I went back to work for household income purposes only, our D/S have fadded a little and I even found myself yelling at him about a crazy huge expense he did for our honeymoon surprise that I was a working member of this household and I had the right to be included in budget decisions... he didn't ask me to go back to work, i decided that it was the right thing to do as a member of our team, I don't want to see us sink, and I am his wife, I will always do what is right by him and by us)

 

[Tinwen]

But you are right, I also questioned him just yesterday why he hasn't considered me for TPE training, and why all the sudden this is something he is considering but for someone else. Because I used to work from home when we met, and would be more than happy to do it again and take on the journey where we left it years ago: becoming a true slave.

Here we go. Any attempt at poly will expose all the cracks and unsaid things in relationships. Not a bad process, but it can be hard on the relationship and the people. Allow time between every step for it to happen.

I can't really speak about TPE either, but questions come to mind.
Has she ever tried following this goal with anyone (i.e. can she really know her preferences)? What are her reasons? (Don't forget she's still a person in the first place with all her quirks and weaknesses.)
What have been your reasons for looking for a "third" in the first place?
And, is having a full-time live-in submissive even compatible with those reasons in the first place?

I also miss a bit of your (emotional) standpoint on this. I read that your husband is up for having another sub, but I'm totally unclear on why would you consider such an arrangement.

 

[BlackbirdDdlg]

Here we go. Any attempt at poly will expose all the cracks and unsaid things in relationships. Not a bad process, but it can be hard on the relationship and the people. Allow time between every step for it to happen.

I can't really speak about TPE either, but questions come to mind.
Has she ever tried following this goal with anyone (i.e. can she really know her preferences)? What are her reasons? (Don't forget she's still a person in the first place with all her quirks and weaknesses.)
What have been your reasons for looking for a "third" in the first place?
And, is having a full-time live-in submissive even compatible with those reasons in the first place?

I also miss a bit of your (emotional) standpoint on this. I read that your husband is up for having another sub, but I'm totally unclear on why would you consider such an arrangement.

This is why nothing has happened yet so far. A lot of people see any form of D/S relationship with the dominant only having full control and power of decision. It's not the case.

You are right, I haven't positioned myself emotionally regarding the whole situation. For many reasons, because I want to know fully what I am considering before making an emotional decision. You can't say you don't like something if you never tried it. heck you can't even say you don't like something if you only had one experience without full knowledge of what's at stake and what's to gain.
I tried yoga once, I hated it. years later I met someone that was doing another more meaningful form of yoga, then I started to read more about it, and understood my mistake: I tried yoga like a sport, and in a very competitive way, trying to be the best in the class. Yoga is a more complete form of exercise, involving your body but also your soul. It is also to be enjoyed as a personal journey and not a competition against others.


This is why I am here. I need to understand more about what I am talking about and what we are considering before making an emotional decision on it.

I am very curious, interested and at the same ticked by her and her relationships desires. I didn't even know what TPE was before we started talking with her.... I want to know more about it and understand her and what she gets out of it. I find it strange and nearly self-destructive to want such a thing, and not seek anything for yourself, by yourself. It's like she has no future dreams, no life goals, nothing to work for, to look forward to, to achieve on her own. And at the same time she talks so passionately about her sport (handball) and the team she trains, and the competition on the week-end etc. So it is strange, and I think there is more to it than what my untrained and unknowledgeable eyes can see.

I have, my entire life being bisexual and poly-sexual (I don't know how it's called, but loving having multiple sexual partners, of FWB) I have always being picky and very weary of the people I included into my private life, by fear of being hurt. It helped me keeping a good sexual life and not sliding into the slutty young girl type that only collects dicks, if you know what I mean?

I only had long relationships, but more often it's not difficult to find play partners for one night of fun at least. If I am not in a relationship, I would be in a FWB relationship but of quality (going dancing, going to the restaurant, visiting museum etc.). I have being in loved of two girls in my life, and have been played by girls way much more than by boys. When the words goes around that you like girls as well, you become the "one time experience" for every straight woman out there that just want to try, but they don't lay it as such, and I get all mixed up between girl friendship and female conquest/begining of something... So I guess the BDSM aspect helps create rules from the start between mature, aware and consenting adults. You understand me better now?

I miss being with a girl, it's being years and years now... That's my reason for being into this whole situation

 

[Emm]

... she doesn't currently lives in the same country

All else aside, what sort of visa would she have? Even if she fits the bill for skilled migrant entry she won't be able to live here permanently without quite an involved and expensive process.

Edit: Assuming she's not currently in the country due to being a citizen of somewhere else rather than due to being an Australian citizen travelling overseas.

 

[BlackbirdDdlg]

All else aside, what sort of visa would she have? Even if she fits the bill for skilled migrant entry she won't be able to live here permanently without quite an involved and expensive process.

Edit: Assuming she's not currently in the country due to being a citizen of somewhere else rather than due to being an Australian citizen travelling overseas.

Gee, thanks that's freaking right! Why I didnt even think of that!!! I did it myself, took years, time and money!

Ah well, was worth the hope for it, but no point wasting time in unrealistic possibilities. So it might remain just an internet friend... She is really cool though, I hope it grows with time into some form of overseas friends that you catch up with once every cpl of years of so

 

[kdt26417]

Hello BlackbirdDdlg,

It sounds like your best bet is to just be friends with this other woman, due to immigration difficulties. But maybe you'll still be looking for a second sub somewhere in your area? I don't know what your plans are at this point.

In any case, I hope Polyamory.com can help,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[vinsanity0]

Hierarchy among subs and slaves in a poly D/s setting is fairly common. Basically, she would answer to you both, while you would only answer to him. That's the D/s side.

As for the poly side, even in a D/s relationship there should be time set aside for the sub to be able to speak freely.

Having never done poly and tpe at the same time, all I can say is it sounds like it could get complicated.

Hopefully you guys will find someone more convenient to you.