inlovewith2's Blog (fka "Some obstacles we are experiencing")

[inlovewith2]

So, last night, Ash was out having dinner and drinks with a local poly vee group. We agreed that it made sense for my Rob to come over, with the understanding that we didn't have sex in our house.

Enter my mother. We were delusional enough to build a house behind hers. (Don't ask. Like I said, delusional.) Well, my Rob came over when it was still light our. My mother was supposed to be out. I had to run out of the house to intercept him before he just walked up the driveway. How freaking ridiculous is that? Correction, I felt like I had to intercept him.

Anyhow, I ended up sneaking him in the house somewhat successfully, but my son saw him and yelled out his name. I asked him if he could please not mention it to Nana. I specifically told him that if she asked, that telling her was totally okay. I'm not gonna get my kid to lie for me to protect us from my crazy mother. Spoken by a therapist who just got out of a psych hospital a few months ago, so excuse the flippant use of the term, but it's a coping mechanism for me.

So, my mom finds out. I still don't have the whole picture, but no matter. She barges into my house without even knocking. I was sitting on the couch snuggling with Rob. I had taken off my pants because I was so hot after literally running to catch him before my mother saw him.

She starts her usual screaming routine. I calmly tell her that Ash knows that he is there. I offer to call him so that she can hear that from him. (That was a mistake, but...). He's at a bar and doesn't hear the call. She then accuses me of knowing that he wouldn't answer. I give up then and escort her to the door. She yells some parting shots at "George." (That's what she called Rob, even though that's not his name. Hilarious.)

Both of us were very upset. Ash called her a couple of hours later. By that time, she was much calmer. She said something to the effect of "So I get that you know that your wife is with another man and are ok with it." He just said "Yes." (Bless his heart, since he's not totally ok with it.) She seemed fine. Nothing is ever as it seems with my mother.

Today, she confronts me and starts going off about the damage I'm doing to my children, and how she's torn as to whether she should watch them to protect them from the horrors of their mother being with a loving, caring man, or not, because she can't condone it. She's so manipulative.

Please understand that this woman was at least indirectly responsible for a great deal of my own abuse and is now what I consider to be emotionally abusive to me.

I am concerned about how to handle the children's curiosity in the future. But for now, I am quite confident that they all see him as a friend and do not have concerns. In fact, my oldest adores him.

Any suggestions on how to handle this with my mother? I tend to try to explain myself. I just think that inadvertently gives her the idea that she has the right to intervene. And don't think I won't have to restrain myself from pointing out what I went through as a kid. I totally get that polyamory is outside most people's box. But bottom line, it is none of her business.

She tried claiming that the kids were so worried about getting in trouble, and the truth is, if she could keep out of it, they wouldn't have been upset at all. She accused me of lying today, so I thought about telling her that I have absolutely no ethical dilemma with lying to protect myself or my family.

Thoughts? My anxiety is through the roof.

 

[vandalin]

1: Lock your doors. You may be in a safe neighborhood, or have some other reason for it to be okay. I grew up without needing to lock our door unless no one was home. But if you were already worried about what your mother might do, yeah... time to start locking.

2: Chances are that she saw you running out to intercept him and sneak him in. That in itself looks guilty. Greeting him at the door as a friend would definitely have been the better way to go.

Sorry for the "hindsight" stuff, but I had to point that out for future reference.

I'm glad that you are able to admit and accept that your mom was and currently is trying to continue her abusive behavior. That is a great beginning. Keeping that in mind can help you deal with her in the future.

The next step is to talk to your kids. I don't recall seeing how old they were, but tell them the age-appropriate truth, without the more personal details. "Rob is my very close friend, and Nana does not understand or like our relationship. It may be best not to discuss it with Nana, because it will only upset her." Nothing false there. Say that if they have any questions, to just ask you, and you will talk to them about it.

As for your mother, I think the best route is to treat this like any other decision you may have made in your adult life. Tell her, in as much detail as you are comfortable with, about your relationship, and that her approval is not required nor requested. If she will not, under any circumstances, accept that you are an adult making adult decisions with Ash's consent, and with the welfare of your children in mind, then it is okay to tell her it is none of her business and to butt out.

Good luck. I hope others have better, hopefully firsthand advice for you.

 

[Quath]

The best hindsight observation was about building your house behind your mother.

There are several approaches you can take. One is to tell her that this is the way it is. If she is going to be judgmental, then she can stay at home.

Another is a more polite version of the first. Tell her that you know it is a shock to her, like the stuff her generation did was a shock to her parents' generation. Ask if she really wants to talk and understand it, or does she want to just condemn it blindly? Let her know that you are explaining it to help her out. You are not looking to be talked out of it. Then you can give her the pro-poly speech, if she agrees.

Another is to talk to her with Ash present. Another is to give her some time to adjust before you talk.

As for the kids, that is tricky. There have been legal challenges in the past where grandparents have kids taken away from non-monogamous families. However, I think they were all based on the people all living together. If you think your mother could do that, you may want to handle it differently.

To put her mind at ease, just tell her that this doesn't affect the kids except they probably get more adults in their life. Monogamous parents don't fill their kids in on what they do in their bedroom, so why expect it from non-monogamous parents? As long as people don't freak out around the kids, they won't see anything wrong. As they get older, they will notice it is unusual, but what family is really the norm anymore?

 

[Taamar]

My mother had some issues, but got over them; it was my aunt who flipped her biscuits. The best I was ever able to manage was to take a deep breath, smile, say 'This topic is not open for discussion', and walk away. Repeat every time she brings it up. You don't really need her approval, but you do have the right to be treated with respect.

 

[redpepper]

I hear you about building a house too close. My parents lives five houses down. It seemed like a great idea when my boy was a baby. Now it's just, well... awkward, to say the least.

 

[inlovewith2]

1: Lock your doors. You may be in a safe neighborhood, or had some other reason for it to be okay, but if you were already worried about what your mother might do, time to start locking.

Oh absolutely. I actually thought that I had!

2: Chances are that she saw you running out to intercept him and sneak him in. That in itself looks guilty. Greeting him at the door as a friend would definitely have been the better way to go.

I'm quite certain that she did not see me. Under normal circumstances, I would completely agree with you that making it nbd would have been ideal. But she would have done the exact same thing if she had seen him come to the door. So we were hoping to avoid it, knowing full well that it was still possible. Not sure if I shared that she knew about the affair and has called Ash an idiot multiple times for "allowing" me to continue even a friendship with Rob. I put "allowing" in quotes, because my decisions are mine, but I love and respect my husband immensely and would seriously take into consideration his concerns.

Next step is to talk to your kids. I don't recall seeing how old they were, but tell them the age appropriate truth, without the more personal details. "He (bf) is a very close friend and your mother (nana) does not understand or like the relationship. It may be best not to discuss it with her (nana) because it will only upset her." Nothing false there. And that if they have any questions, just ask you and you will sit and talk to them about it.

This is very reassuring, as that is what I said to them almost verbatim. They are 9, 7 and 4. I didn't so much talk to the 4 yr old. I just introduced him to Rob, and we went upstairs to read stories. I did offer to read them downstairs with Rob, but the boy chose upstairs.

They know that my mother is impulsive and volatile, but not to them, and they absolutely adore her.

As for your mother, I think the best route is to treat this like any other decision you may have made in your adult life. Tell her, in as much detail as you are comfortable with, about your relationship and that her approval is not required nor requested. If she will not, under any circumstances, accept that you are an adult making adult decisions with Ash's consent, and with the welfare of your children in mind, then yes, it is ok to tell her it is none of her business and to butt out.

This is my plan. Ash and I decided that we will set ground rules from the outset.

If her plan is to be accusatory about my character, my parenting, etc., or to convince us that we are "wrong", then there is no point in having the discussion. We shall see how it goes.

Thanks for helping me think this out. I tend to panic a bit and it's hard to think in that state.

The best hindsight observation was about building your house behind your mother.

Oh yeah. We have frequent convos about what we were thinking. Her "help" with the kids is very not worth the rest of the package. Live and learn. We do hope to move someday, but moving is very daunting at this point.

There are several approaches you can take. One is to tell her that this is the way it is. If she is going to be judgmental, then stay at home.

Another is a more polite version of the first. Tell her that you know it is a shock to her like the stuff her generation did was a shock to her parents' generation. Ask if she really wants to talk and understand it, or does she want to just condemn it blindly? Let her know that you are explaining it to help her out. You are not looking to be talked out of it. Then you can give her the pro-poly speech, if she agrees.

I had thought about this approach, but it got lost in the recesses of my scattered mind. So thank you. Not sure I have a solid pro-poly speech to give, but I thought it best to just keep it simple: that Ash and I recognize that my relationship with Rob has a lot to offer both of us.

Talk to her with Ash present. Give her some time to adjust before you talk.

Oh, he'll be present, for sure. I'm hoping that presenting a unified front will be a good thing. But I have no delusions of being respected or even heard. She requested a talk, so though in many ways I'd prefer to put it off, I feel it is probably best to talk today. Fingers crossed!

As for the kids, that is tricky. There have been legal challenges in the past where grandparents have kids taken away from non-monogamous families. However, I think they were all based on the people living together. If you think your mother could do that, you may want to handle it differently.

Yeah, having worked indirectly with CPS/DSS, I know how random they can be. When I was homeschooling (before my hospitalization), I made damn sure to have my ducks in a row to avoid any scrutiny. I think my mother *could* do that, but it is very unlikely. She is already raising my sister's daughter, and I doubt she would pursue it for that reason. Also, she is really angry with the authority/judicial system in our county for how my sister was treated, so I think she would stay as far away from that as possible. But don't think I don't know that it is possible.

To put her mind at ease, just tell her that this doesn't affect the kids except they probably get more adults in their life. Monogamous parents don't fill their kids in on what they do in their bedroom, so why expect it from non-monogamous parents? As long as people don't freak out around the kids, they won't see anything wrong. As they get older, they will notice it is unusual. But what family is really the norm anymore?

My thoughts exactly, but thanks for the articulation! I am a firm believer that there is no "normal" and that we all benefit from diversity. My children are kind and loving, and understand as best they can that diversity is a wonderful, or at least a "normal" thing. I hate the word normal, can you tell? Thanks so much! I feel more and more confident, though still have a pit in my stomach.

My mother had some issues, but got over them; it was my aunt who flipped her biscuits. The best I was ever able to manage was to take a deep breath, smile, say 'This topic is not open for discussion', and walk away. Repeat every time she brings it up. You don't really need her approval, but you do have the right to be treated with respect.

Very well said. ITA. Thank you!

I hear you about building a house too close. My parents lives five houses down. It seemed like a great idea when my boy was a baby. now it's just, well... awkward, to say the least.

Yeah, it seemed like a phenomenal idea, and in truth, I am happy that my kids know and love their grandparents. I never knew mine well, and what I did know was not pleasant. I'm more than willing to fall on my sword and deal with the emotional warfare on occasion, but I do not want it negatively affecting my kids.

Oh, and fwiw, I presented the option to my daughter to go to lunch with Rob, as my son had, and she was very open to it. Rob gets overwhelmed by people (social anxiety disorder), so I'm taking the one kid at a time approach. My other son will be a harder sell, methinks, because he saw my staying over at Rob's during my outpatient hospitalization as Rob taking me away from him. And he's also very in tune with Ash, who has struggled with anger toward Rob. So I imagine this has had an impact on the little guy.

 

[inlovewith2]

This part concerns me. If he's not really okay with it, then why are you doing it? This is something that my wife and I would call cheating. If one part of a couple is not okay with something, then it is cheating, IMO.

In response to this, I asked Ash what he thought. He said:

"It's a work in progress. We are working towards that. And it's complete informed consent." So I feel it is NOT cheating.

To me, it's a process. I have been completely honest with him, respected any boundaries he has set (e.g., no sex in our house) and have told him multiple times that if he is not comfortable with it continuing, Rob and I will stop the sexual part of our relationship.

He is also looking into the possibility of dating someone, although he is ambivalent. I support him where he is at.

Not my relationship. Apparently it works for you two... or not? Trust me, if he is not okau with it, it will blow up in a big way, and your mother will be the least of your concerns.

Agreed. I'm not sure it completely works for Ash, but we have frequent conversations where we talk openly about our feelings and check in. It's open and honest. I can't think that I'm the only one here whose spouse is/was not 100% comfortable at first.

My wife and I just came out to our kids about a week ago. (They are 18 and 13.) We have not told our parents yet. I fully suspect they would be fine with it, though. All are well-grounded and open and realize that it is ultimately our relationship, not theirs.

That's wonderful. I hope to be able to offer my kids this, certainly trusting them to make their own choices, even if they aren't ones that I would make.

With your mother, I would explain to her that you are an adult, your hubby is an adult, Rob is an adult, and you are all consenting (although this is not what you stated above by saying that your hubby is not totally okay with it), so it is your decision as adults to make. If she doesn't like it, she can leave you alone.

I do consider him consenting, as I stated above. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[redpepper]

I came out to my parents last fall, as you may know. It's written about here--

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721&highlight=redpepper+needing

My mum seems to be in protection mode now. She gave me a pep talk yesterday, before Nerdist and I went to a wedding, where some people know we have Mono in our lives. It was about not letting other people's judgments keep me from being me. HA! I had to laugh, as she was/is the biggest judge. I'm not complaining. I love that she has found a way to connect with me in her protective mother role. I prefer that to what we had.

I am not a big fan of telling people it isn't their business when they ask me questions, or even when they are judging me or being disrespectful. In keeping with good communication (at least by my standard) I'm much more apt to tell them how their words make me feel, i.e., disrespected.

If I want people to talk to me in a certain way, then I believe I need to talk to them in the way I want to be talked to. I know I would feel very disappointed and hurt if someone told me that something wasn't open for discussion. How does anyone move forward from that? I would prefer hearing, "I am feeling threatened and hurt by your words. I am not interested in talking with you about this until I hear words that don't make me feel threatened. If you want to talk to me differently, then let me know." Or, "I am not interested in talking about this right now. Please ask me later, or we can set up a time to talk. But right now doesn't work for me."

 

[Taamar]

I know I would feel very disappointed and hurt if someone told me that something isn't open to discussion. How does anyone move forward from that?

I see your point, and I would absolutely handle it differently if the person had a habit of respect and some interest in the situation.

I would prefer hearing, "I am feeling threatened and hurt by your words, I am not interested in talking with you about this until I hear words that don't make me feel threatened. If you want to talk to me differently, then let me know." Or "I am not interested in talking about this right now. Please ask me later, or we can make a time to talk, but right now doesn't work for me."

Generally, if the person is capable of discussing it in a non-threatening manner, the 'not for discussion' cock-block isn't necessary. Yes, one should always try to explain and come to accord first, but some people won't accept any alteration to their points of view, and with those people you DO have to simply walk away. I should have been more clear that the shut-down is a last resort, not an opening salvo.

As I mentioned, my mother eventually came around. My aunt never will because her viewpoint is "Logic doesn't matter. God says it's wrong, and you're going to hell, and it's my responsibility to turn you from your sinful ways." There is no possibility of respectful non-threatening conversation there!

 

[redpepper]

My aunt never will because her viewpoint is, "Logic doesn't matter, God says it's wrong and you're going to hell. And it's my responsibility to turn you from your sinful ways." There is no possibility of respectful non-threatening conversation there!

Essentially she blocked you first, it seems. She wasn't open to your point of view in terms of respecting your differences. It's the same thing as her saying, "This is not open for discussion." There is not much one can do about that, except be available if they ever change their minds. Thanks for pointing out what this feels like from the other side of someone saying something isn't open for discussion.

In my experience, it usually means watching them become bitter, unhappy, depressed and blaming it on everyone else around them. Very sad, but their own choice. Unfortunately, they usually don't see that, at least from what I have seen.

 

[inlovewith2]

Update on mother wanting to chat

Sorry for the delay (not like I thought you all were on the edge of your seats), but there's been tons going on this week.

We did talk with my parents, and, all in all, it went fairly well. Ash and I had a printed list of points to discuss. It works well this way for them/us. Early on, my mother made a nasty comment about how the conversation seemed all one-sided. By the end, she stormed off, because she had made a comment that I was manipulative like her, and I simply stated that I didn't consider myself a manipulative person (although I think we all manipulate in some ways, as human beings).

There is so much more that I'd like feedback on, including dealing with my friends, and Rob's recent statement that he doesn't see this being a long-term relationship, but I'm simply too drained. He and I were up late last night discussing it and my son was not able to be convinced to go back to sleep with Mama.

 

[inlovewith2]

Some obstacles we are experiencing

When I posted that last thread about my mother, one of the members (I forgot the screen-name, sorry) suggested that if my husband weren't totally okay with our poly relationship, then I was cheating. I must say I felt more than a little defensive, since I have gone out of my way to be respectful of Ash's wishes.

Ash came to me and said that Rob and I could resume our sexual relationship. Regrettably, Rob and I did initially commit infidelity, which began the exploration into polyamory, but since then Ash and I have been having open dialogue.

Ash first consented to us remaining friends because he understood that Rob filled a role for me that he could not. Rob and I both suffer from PTSD and major depression. Then, as time went on, and in talking with his best friend who is in an open relationship, Ash realized that he was torturing himself--that no matter whether he consented to us being friends or lovers, he would wonder if I was seeing him AND that my love for Rob was not a threat to my love for him. I spent several days talking with Ash about it, and it was clear that it was freeing for him to not obsess. Another data point is that a therapist suggested to Ash that maybe he would enjoy having a relationship with another woman without quite so much baggage, as sex can be very difficult for me.

Ash is currently trying to pursue a relationship with a woman, but it is slower going than he hoped. I notice that when he is feeling disappointed there, he expresses hesitance about my sexual relationship with Rob. I replied to him that if he wants us to put that on hold, we will, even though obvee Rob and I would not want to. He has requested this, and Rob and I will respect it.

Last week, Ash went out with a poly vee group local to us, and they gave him several helpful suggestions--one of them being to think of things that he and Rob could do together. He has been working on that and really trying hard. However, Rob feels much too anxious to even consider that, at this point.

Bottom line is that it seems to me that it is "normal" (I really have a dislike for this word in general) for Ash/us to do a bit of a dance with it. I feel that as long as we have open and honest communication and are respectful of each other's wishes, I am NOT cheating on him.

Now enter major obstacle #2 mentioned above: Rob's anxiety. Ash is willing to explore activities with him, but Rob is too anxious. He's only reluctantly willing to meet and spend time with my kids.

I shared already that he's "met" my mother (and is still having anxiety aftershocks from that).

He just told me recently that he sees our relationship as not being long-term. This was more than a bit of a blow to me, and initially I thought "Why the heck am I taking all of this heat if he's just going to end it shortly?"

Turns out that it comes from two places: his fears of becoming more deeply involved in our family, and his ex-girlfriend. She's really doing a number on him emotionally, albeit unintentionally. She wants first dibs on his time. He's really struggling with it, and despite my urgings to be honest with her, he is too afraid of losing her. He truly believes that she saved his life and just can't bear to have the convo that we both know he needs to have with her.

I knew this would be challenging, but had no idea how much so.

Not sure what I'm looking for, maybe just for you all to understand the situation a bit better, so that it might inform replies to future questions I may have.

Still riding the waves...

 

[Quath]

Personally, I don't see this as cheating.

It also sounds like your husband is slowing down your relationship with your bf out of envy. It sounds like if his relationship were going faster, he would be ok with yours going further with your bf. If you and your husband were mor established, then I would say he should look at his envy and think about it. However, since he is still coming to terms with stuff, then I think some leeway is appropriate.

Sounds like there is a lot going on with your bf. He needs to figure out what he wants. If he sees his ex-girlfriend as a friend, then he should trust her with the truth. If she doesn't like him because of that, then was never really a true friend.

Good luck to ya.

 

[inlovewith2]

Sorry to be a pain, but I need support

Here's the situation. I'm married to an awesome guy, who, after some initial hesitance, has become open to both of us dating/loving others. I fell in love with someone first. The thread on reassuring primaries was actually very timely. He came home from visiting friends out of state, suddenly getting what I've been telling him for months-- that there is NO ONE who could ever replace him. It also helped that I ended up in the ER with kidney stones on Friday (gotta find a silver lining for that one!) and he realized all of the little ways that he knows me that no one else does.

Anyway, as I already mentioned, Rob has a platonic primary. They used to be a romantic couple. He refuses to be honest with her about his feelings for me and the extent of our relationship, in a misguided effort to protect her, and himself from losing her. I know that what you all said is correct, that it would be more kind in the long run to be honest with her, but I truly don't think he can handle that emotionally. He owes her thousands of dollars from the last year when he's been out of work with severe depression. He feels like he truly owes her for saving his life. He explained to me that he's been homeless before and could not survive that again.

I realize that this is more than likely a rather unique situation, but it is nonetheless my reality. Last night, I received a return letter from his ex-gf, and as Ash said, she told me to fuck off about as politely as one possibly could. She made it very clear that she is not and will not ever be open to meeting me, and played on me telling her that I was a caring person by asking that I not ever attempt to contact her in any way again. Rob stayed completely out of it, never reading the letter I sent her, even though I offered him the opportunity. I don't feel like I can keep this to myself. It's not how I work. And yet, I don't want to add stress to him.

For the first time, I have actually been considering throwing in the towel on my relationship with Rob. I love him so very much, but I have been pummeled from all sides, it seems-- my friends, my family, his woman friend, and, to a lesser extent, by Ash. To me, Ash is the only one who has any right to provide input, and he has done so very kindly. But it has not been emotionally easy.

Maybe this should be a separate thread, but I have such limited time, with three kids, to get on here, I'm just going to add it here. I joined OKCupid out of curiosity, and to support Ash. Incidentally, he and I "matched" at like 98%, a huge morale booster for both of us. Anyway, men started IMing me, and I was just enjoying the attention, quite frankly. See, I've never considered myself attractive, and as I've shared, have never had a fully positive experience as a sexual person. So, yeah, I was enjoying it. I had no intention on ever meeting any of these men, and would immediately let them know that I was in an open marriage, etc.

Anyway, this one guy intrigued me, so I read his profile. I'm quite intuitive and sensed that he too understood depression. I was right. So he and I have formed an online friendship. Both Ash and Rob know about it, but don't understand that I have actually come to like the guy. Initially he came on really strong, and feeling bold, I told him so, at which point he totally tuned it down.

I would like to meet him and yes, even possibly date him. I have been totally up front with him, so he knows the situation, and he's not run away yet. But all of a sudden, things feel overwhelmingly complicated. All of this, and some other difficult life events of late (the kidney stones actually being somewhat low on the list, believe it or not) make me just want to hide.

I definitely need support, but I'd also like whatever practical ideas you all may have for helping Rob to become open to meeting Ash, who has so kindly extended that offer. Remember that Rob has severe depression and anxiety, including social anxiety, and understand that not talking to his ex is only going to blow up in his face, in the long run.

I can never be brief.

Struggling,
C

 

[idealist]

I'm married to an awesome guy, who after some initial hesitance has become open to both of us dating/loving others.

Well, that's good!

I truly don't think Rob can handle being honest emotionally.

I wouldn't want to date and get more serious with a person who can't emotionally handle being honest; I don't care how much I am in love with them.

He owes her thousands of dollars from the last year when he's been out of work with severe depression. He feels like he truly owes her for saving his life.

I'm not saying that a person who struggles with depression and financial security does not deserve to be in a relationship, but if I were to enter into a relationship with a person in this situation, I would expect ongoing chaos, because that is what you are going to have. His co-dependent relationship with his ex, along with his inability to be honest is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

For the first time, I have actually been considering throwing in the towel on this relationship with Rob.

I would start backing away a bit, if I were you.

But all of a sudden, things feel overwhelmingly complicated. All of this, and some other difficult life events of late (the kidney stones actually being somewhat low on the list, believe it or not) make me just want to hide.

When I feel like this, it usually means that I need to just focus on myself. I would suggest that you pull back for a while and take a few deep breaths.

Remember that bf has severe depression and anxiety, including social anxiety... not talking to his ex is only going to blow up in his face in the long run.

And when it blows up in his face, it will blow up in the faces and lives of anyone who is near to him.

I do occasionally get involved with people who are struggling, codependent, addicts, etc., but it is with full awareness that the ship is eventually going down, and since I don't want to do down with the ship, I look for signs of it sinking. When I see that, I get in my life raft and paddle away quickly.

 

[AutumnalTone]

Yeah, that's a situation where I'd work my way out of it. Too many warning signs of impending disaster.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Here's a question for you to ponder-- with each of your questions/issues ask yourself this: which solution is helping to promote you and the other person being the best possible versions of yourselves?

 

[inlovewith2]

Well, that's good!

I wouldn't want to date and get more serious with a person who can't emotionally handle being honest. I don't care how much I am in love with them.

I'm not saying that a person who struggles with depression and financial security does not deserve to be in a relationship, but if I were to enter into a relationship with a person in this situation, I would expect ongoing chaos, because that is what you are going to have. His co-dependent relationship with his ex, along with his inability to be honest is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion. I would start backing away a bit, if I were you.

I agree that the situation is less than ideal. But it's so much easier for me to see the full picture, no? I know so many more dimensions of this man than I could ever capture here.

I met the guy at a psych hospital, and knew his history data points, so believe me, I went into this with my eyes open. I knew, for example, that rescuing him was not on the agenda and reminded myself that he has managed to survive for 40-odd years without me, a true testament to his strength and character, imo. I feel grounded in the aspects of the relationship related to him and me

It is more than unfortunate that he isn't able to be direct with her. He can and has been with me. Wait, I'm justifying. I simply don't need to. I love him. I'm not ready to end the relationship, not by a long shot.

That being said, I am keeping my eyes and ears open, and will back away if I feel it is necessary.

Let me also say this about this board-- I've been a member of a slew of online groups over the years, and as I was telling my husband, this is the first one where, thus far, people seem to actually say things out of caring and concern, and not just a need to express an opinion. For that, I am greatly appreciative.

When I feel like this, it usually means that I need to just focus on myself. I would suggest that you pull back for a while and take a few deep breaths.

Funny, this was my therapist's suggestion, as well. I think there is definitely some merit to it. And this is going to happen out of necessity, because Ash is starting to date now too (first one tonight). So, with three kids and only one car, life will provide opportunities for this (evenings alone if my kids can actually manage to stop partying before 10 pm and go to sleep).

And when it blows up in his face, it will blow up in the faces and lives of anyone who is near to him.

Yes, agreed. Honestly, I view this similarly to how I view situations with my oldest son (and my other kids as well, though relevant situations have not yet arisen with them). He's going to make mistakes and fall on his face; we all do. I can only be there to support, and it's important that I not go "on the ride" with him, so that I can be that support, and not incur damage, or at least minimize the damage I incur.

I do occasionally get involved with people who are struggling, codependent, addicts. etc., but it is with full awareness that the ship is eventually going down. And since I don't want to do down with the ship, I look for signs of it sinking. When I see that, I get in my life raft and paddle away quicky.

Yep. As I view it, I didn't expect nor choose to fall in love with him (though as I type that, I have a sense that I might need to ponder that more), but in love with him I am. He's an amazing man with so much to offer. I honestly don't see this man's ship sinking, but it does take on water frequently, and that's what I see as my challenge, to not panic or lose control at those times. Quite frankly, it's been excellent training for me to keep a bit of emotional distance for my own self-preservation. It's not been my style in the past. So, I have no plans at this time to paddle away, but I will be keeping those eyes open.

Thanks for the thought-provoking reply.

 

[inlovewith2]

Yeah, that's a situation where I'd work my way out of it. Too many warning signs of impending disaster.

Thanks for your input. See my earlier response to LR, I think? You may both be right, but I'm not anywhere near convinced. And lest anyone feel frustrated along the lines of "Why'd she ask if she didn't want our feedback?" understand that I value receiving feedback so that I can use my intuition to guide what feels right to me. My anxiety can make my thoughts incoherent to me, so slowing it down and getting outside thoughts helps me (as long as they are kind, which thus far, all replies have been).

Thanks.

 

[inlovewith2]

Ask yourself this: which solution is helping to promote you and the other person being the best possible versions of themselves?

Oh, I absolutely love this. Gonna print it out and reference it throughout the day, in fact. Thank you!