It's a Texlahoma Story

I used to get jealous and insecure when my boyfriend praised other partners and went on about how awesome they were. What I didn't realize until someone else told me... He talked about ME exactly the same way to other people. I just didn't know it, because obviously I wasn't there, and it wouldn't have made sense for him to tell me he was bragging about me to someone else.

So Reverie might be right; a partner who talks to you about their other partner(s) might be talking to them about you just as much and saying things that are just as awesome. You simply don't know it.

And/or, if you're like me, you don't believe there's anything awesome enough about yourself for them to talk about...
 
So, I do plan to get back to the competition/talking about other partners thing soon, but I have to stop and SQUEEEE about my date :D

Omg you guys, I got to go on a REAL DATE. A date where I talked to a cute boy about stuff other than poly and partners and rules. A date that was about finding out if we liked each other, not trying to figure out if our various poly boundaries left any room for a relationship between us.

Heaven. Seriously. Single dudes FTW.

I had an awesome time, and a perfect good night kiss (ok, many good night kisses :eek:). We already have another date set for next week. He actually wanted to go out again tomorrow (is this how single people date???) but I'm spending tomorrow at the lake place. Then Friday is date night with Andy, and I have plans with K both days this weekend. I hope my lack of last minute availability isn't a deal breaker... but if it is, better to find out now, for sure!

This guy - let's call him Spencer - is so completely my type it's ridiculous. He's also a guy who could get any woman he wanted, so I have no idea why he's bothering with an old married lady like me ;) Seriously, we're talking 40 ish athlete who drives a luxury roadster to his tech gig all week, then takes his old pickup to his ranch on the weekends. On top of which, he's actually NICE, and down to earth. As in, NONE of the above - the sports leagues, the ranch, the pretentious job title - was on his okc profile. So yeah... He wants a fun fling in between serious relationships, or a fwb while he's too busy to date? Cool. I'm in.

Well I did mention that my plan was to get laid :p
 
Yay for a great date! You deserve the fun. Enjoy
 
Thanks playfulgirl!!! This week of chatting with Spencer has been awesome. He's so sweet. The other day I sent him some pictures of one of my lake projects and he wrote "good job Claire!!!" :eek:

It's really nice to be able to flirt and talk and enjoy getting to know someone without all of the mental and emotional labor of poly. I mean, obviously it's still poly, I'm still married ;), but... there's not the constant stress I've always had in dating married guys. I'm not in a perpetual state of anxiety. It's wonderful.

A lot of it is that Andy and I figured out nonmonagamy together, so we do it in a way that works really well for us. There's not much conflict resolution or negotiation to do anymore. We know how much the other wants to hear about our OSOs, how much time together/apart we need, what situations are likely to trigger stress.

I do worry that if I date single guys, I will end up shortchanging them. That if I have this attitude of "this is how I do poly, if that doesn't work for you, bye", then I'm being unfair. But I remind myself that these guys are autonomous grown ups. If I'm up front and honest, give them the information they need to decide whether to pursue a relationship with me, then I've done my part and it's their choice to leave or stick around. Plus, none of the agreements with Andy are set in stone. It's really just a matter of how much I'm willing to make changes in our easy status quo to accommodate another partner. When it's somebody I've been out with once or twice, I'm not going to make big changes ... For someone I've been with for years, it's a different situation.

Mostly I'm just loving the way I feel like I'm DATING, as opposed to negotiating some sort of arms treaty between multiple warring countries. In past relationships I have so often felt like I was working all the time just to get a few hours of time with someone a week. Not just in the sense of trying to juggle their needs/their spouse's needs/Andy's needs... But working to process, working to be ok with things, working emotionally 24/7 just to keep from losing my shit. The freedom from that since I broke up with Dag has been exhilarating. The idea that I could have that feeling AND a fun fwb to spend time with... Life is good :D
 
Random, disjointed musings for a Sunday afternoon...

I feel so different from poly people when it comes to relationships.

I frequently see poly folks read talking about how monogamy feels limiting, how hard it is to put artificial boundaries on what a relationship can become, how frustrating it is to have the feels for another person and not be able to act on it.

:confused::confused::confused:

The idea of having sexual attraction + romantic feelings for a person and being unable to act on those feelings doesn't bother me at all. That's like, my constant state of being. For most of my life, I have had crushes and attractions and "in love" feelings for the majority of people I'm close to. It's a NICE feeling. The sense of wanting to be physically close, needing to be around them all the time, even the hum of arousal I feel when I'm with my guy friends... All these things make the friendships BETTER, for me.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, quietly reveling in those feelings is all I want. Even if physical/sexual intimacy was on the table, I'd say no thanks. Sex is complicated, and complicating. It isn't something I want to do with many people. It has the potential to trigger really strong bonding feelings for me, feelings that are frustrating and unpleasant. I don't feel any need for more than one sex partner at a time, if the sex with that person is meeting all my needs. So honestly, most of the time, I'm happier being attracted and not doing anything about it.

I also feel like I draw my relationship categories differently. I don't have a hard line between "friend" and "romantic partner". I feel like people sort of drift between those two groups easily, to the point where I mostly lump them into one big mental pile known as "people I care about". Maybe because I am so used to crushing on my friends??? But I feel like there is this MASSIVE gulf between "life partner" and... everyone else. I can't get my head around the idea that anyone who isn't a legal, lifelong, 24/7 partner could be important in the same way.

Thinking about the "friends with exes" thing is what got me started on this, I guess. To me, it isn't a matter of turning off emotions or changing how I feel about someone. I am (usually) still sexually attracted to my exes. I still love them just as much. When I "break up", I'm really just saying, "let's not fuck anymore, ok? The fucking is complicating things too much." But everyone but me seems to feel that as some seismic shift, rather than a minor tweak.

Not really sure what any of this means. For me, it means that I love the idea of having a dating/fwb thing for a while, then focusing on the platonic friendship when the sex no longer makes sense. Some days I feel like I'm the only one who thinks that way, though.
 
My boyfriend seems to feel the way you do about breakups, that it's just a minor adjustment in behavior toward the other person, not a massive life shift. So you definitely aren't the only one who looks at breakups that way.

For me, they're a massive life shift because I'm so accustomed to being hurt, used, and dumped on that if someone hurts me, my first instinct is to get the fuck away from them forever so they can't do it again. I've fought that instinct constantly with Hubby and my boyfriend, and on rare occasions even with my kids. It's the reason I have contact with my parents once a month if that, and have no contact with any of my exes except my ex-husband, with whom I still have to have occasional contact since he's my kids' dad. Fortunately, with both kids now being legal adults, the contact with their father has vastly decreased and is mostly only on an emergency basis now.

But I also tend to have very rigid category-boxes in my life. Friends are friends, and that means a certain thing; if I have sex with a friend, as with Site-Guy, they become a friend with benefits, which isn't quite the same thing as a friend. (Because sex.) A partner is a partner, and that's different from a friend. An acquaintance isn't a friend, even if they're a friendly acquaintance. I seriously over-categorize people, but it helps me understand things better.
 
I like to say that I try to stay friends with exes, and that is mostly generally true.

But given that the ratio of people I've fallen "crazy in love" with to the people I've had sex with, that's like 12% of them I've had big feels for...and in those cases, it's hard for me. Particularly because in general those were the ones where I got super attached very fast and they pushed me away and out of their lives. I was forced to let go, and I didn't want to. And I was hurt, internalized it as this huge blow to my self worth, it was bad. Attempted friendship after that feels tainted with bitterness on my part.

Now, if I did NOT (as in the majority of my partners) feel super attached, then I feel like transitioning to friendship is the way to go. Especially if I felt like we were friends and our friendship was good, the whole time. With sex, without sex, I don't see what the big deal is there. Why wouldn't we still be friends?

Ah...but what if THEY had big feelings, and I hurt them? This is where maybe I have been blind. Not realizing they had big feelings, when I did not, and assuming that it wouldn't be a big deal to them if I wasn't a partner anymore. It's been met with disappointment and unhappiness and bitterness in the past.

Seems to me that whether an ongoing friendship is possible often has to do with how much hurt was involved in the end of the...sex/love/intimacy partner relationship thing.
 
It does help to hear other people's perspectives on this. Funny how we all see things so uniquely. It's easy for me to forget that, since Andy and I have basically spent 15 years forming a joint view of the world that we reinforce for each other 24/7 ;)

Dag texted yesterday, I didn't reply yet. It was a very "let's stroll down memory lane" message about our first date 2 years ago. Maybe I did hurt him more than I realized, and he needed time to be ready to talk... But now I'm the one who's hurt. I'm feeling like a toy that got put away on the shelf for 3 months :cool: and I don't know if I want to bother reestablishing a friendship with someone who thinks that how friends treat each other.

I'm not super sad about Dag, exactly... More just generally sad that my vision of how an open/poly set up would look is not panning out. I had this idea that I'd meet guy friends who would be sex partners sometimes, platonic friends other times. Now I'm realizing (after having it happen half a dozen times, slow learner lol) that once we have become lovers, being platonic besties may no longer be an option.

Remember college, you guys? Or high school? Where you'd date somebody for 6 months or a year, break up, but still be stuck with each other due to sharing the same friends and classes? I LOVED that vibe. It felt right to me. Some of my closest people in my teens and early 20s were exes.

Poly seems to have created so much loss for me. A string of people I liked, even loved, who have vanished from my life. I feel a little hopeless sometimes. I can't imagine making a non-escalator relationship work for more than a few years. There's just too much other stuff swirling around in everyone's lives - work, hobbies, other partners, friends, kids. Too many moving parts. At least for me. I basically need the moon and stars to align to want sex with someone. And keeping them aligned is hard enough when it's your marriage and you have all the time and energy to give to it. Trying to make it work indefinitely in the face of all the ~poly stuff~ is nearly impossible.

I don't want to avoid attachment or run from love. I want to feel those things. But damn, it makes it harder when you lose someone :(
 
I didn't date in high school...and the only guy I dated in college became my first husband and my kid's dad.
 
My second date with Spencer is tomorrow night!!!

He's just... Perfect. I completely want to go on and on about him, but I also don't want to gush so much that all semblance of anonymity disappears :cool:

So instead of giving in to the urge to copy and paste all of our flirty conversations here ;) I'll just say that whoever said all the good ones were taken was wrong!

And I really can't get over the joy of dating someone who doesn't come with a wife lurking in the shadows somewhere. I feel ... Free? That's not quite it. But it's close. I feel free to want what I want, and to have boundaries around the stuff I don't want, and I feel zero guilt about it all.

I wish I could sort out what seems so different - why dating a guy who's currently single feels so easy, and dating someone with a primary feels so difficult. Because really, after a couple of weeks of texting and one date, the actual experience with Spencer is not radically different because he's single. So it's something in *me* that's different. Hmmmm.
 
Today is my 13th wedding anniversary :D Just saying that makes me feel old, lol. I'm picking up Andy after work and we're going out for sushi. There's this one amazing roll at our favorite place that we always fight over the last piece, and tonight we are going to order 2!

I woke up this morning to cards all over the kitchen, Andy can never pick just one ;) and I snuck in some flowers after he left for work to surprise him when we get home. We skipped individual presents this year and got a new computer for the soon-to-be lake house. One of the all in one type desktops, because I hate cords and cables! The screen is big enough that it can be our tv up there, too, which saves space. I don't know how we got to the point of needing a desktop, two laptops, and two iPads at a vacation house!!! but at least this way one of those things is doing double duty.

Ok. Spencer. What can I say, except how on earth is this guy single?!?! Is every woman in dfw insane except for me? Or maybe I just seriously lucked out with my timing. It's not like he has been perpetually single - he's had several LTRs and he recently got out of a five year relationship.

But there's something else, too. He's one of those kinda awkward, sweet, shy guys who gets overlooked by lots of women. Even though it was our second date, I could tell he was nervous last night, it took a good twenty minutes before he relaxed. Once he did, though, he just LIT UP talking about his horses, his gaming leagues, his sports stuff. Soooo cute.

If I had to sum up my type in one word, it would be "adorkable". And Spencer is adorkable :eek:

He is also an insanely good kisser :p Spent an hour tangled up in my truck in the parking lot after dinner. Mmmm. Oh, and he asked me to be his date to a special event at the symphony in a few weeks!!! I'm just so ridiculously happy right now.
 
Today's WTF...

Why do I find it so simple and easy to do poly with Andy, and so difficult with other partners?

Andy and Stephanie had a ... thing... a few weeks ago. A not quite fight. He was going through tough stuff at work, and reached out to her for support, and she didn't respond the way he wanted or expected. He vented to me when it first happened, and I gave him hugs and love, and told him it was just Steph being Steph. Then last night he told me that one day when he was driving home, so angry at her he was in almost in tears, she called and apologized. So they're all good now. In true Steph form, she had an excuse for being shitty, she has been stressed at work, too, and just got an insanely awesome promotion.

And through all of this, I'm a) happy to listen b) rooting for them to work it out and c) super proud of Steph's new job and not feeling competitive at all. Even though we spent half our anniversary dinner talking about it! I'm just all melty with happiness for them both.

But if you switched the players around - if that had been Dag or any other ex talking about his wife - I would be a mess today. Sulky and miserable and resentful. I would be pissed I'd had to hear about any of it, jealous of the promotion, and at best apathetic about them working it out. Even just IMAGINING a boyfriend telling me those things gets me stressed and anxious.

Why:confused: Why does compersion and support and generosity come so naturally with Andy, and not with anyone I date???
 
From where I sit, that's easy.

You feel secure with Andy. You are secure in not only your relationship with him, but his regard for you, you've got all the stuff in place that makes you feel safe.

With the others, you don't feel safe, you have question areas. Especially when you are their secondary, so you don't have the life stuff reaffirming your importance and your secure place...and then there is this other person they go on about, and all too easy to wonder how that reflects on you and your connection with them.

I begin to think that all things even related to the concept we call "jealousy"...have the two components. The sense of lack (I don't have something I need/want) and the diversionary "other" in the equation (maybe she gets what I don't deserve, etc.)
 
Spork is faster than I am - I clicked on the link in my email to more or less type exactly that. I think I was going to use the word trust, rather than security, but same thoughts.
 
I think you guys are right... I guess the next question is, could I ever feel that trust and security with anyone else?

Because I love being able to cheer Andy's other relationships. I love that I can hear about his sweet moments with Stephanie and be thrilled for him. I love that my reaction to her promotion is not jealousy or competitiveness, but wanting to brag about how awesome she is. (Seriously, she's going to be heading a division of their company that does over $100 million in revenue annually. And she is going to kick ass. The girl is a rock star.) But I have never been able to feel the same way with another partner :(

I got a message on okc from a really cute poly guy today. And I almost never see poly guys who are my type! Part of me says, write back! Sure, Spencer is amazing, but it's only been 2 dates, you have no idea if this will go anywhere. Another part says, hey Claire, what's the definition of insanity, again? ;) Are you really going to put yourself in the position that has caused you nothing but stress and heartbreak every time before? :cool:
 
Oh, just write back to the guy. You are projecting that there will be heartbreak a little far in advance, aren't you? You haven't even had a conversation yet, and if you decide to meet, a coffee date is just a meet and greet - just keep your feet on the ground. Which might be good advice regarding Spencer, too.

Do you think there may be a wee bit of hesitation to see what's possible with anyone else because Spencer is so "perfect" and you don't want to be disloyal? I gotta tell ya, ever since you've been gushing over him, I've fought the urge to tell you not to let yourself get too over the moon about him at this point. You could really be setting yourself up for disappointment if you focus too much on one new guy right now. I forget where I read this, but someone wrote that the best way to meet someone who is right for you is to date as many people as possible.

So write back to the poly guy and see if you two click. Why not? What have you got to lose? No one will think you're slutty if you go out with someone else.
 
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nycindie said:
I forget where I read this, but someone wrote that the best way to meet someone who is right for you is to date as many people as possible.
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I know that is the common wisdom, but it's just not me.

There's actually a question on okc about whether, between serious relationships, you prefer to date multiple people at a time or just one person. That one was easy to answer ;) I really prefer to just focus on one person, see if it works, and if not, go back and look around again. Dating multiple guys ruins the fun for me. It's not a matter of thinking its disloyal or slutty, it's just unpleasant. I've never been able to feel anything for anybody while I'm dating around, it feels like a chore. And I LIKE feeling all giddy and excited about new people.

Writing this made me think...

I get messages every day on okc from guys I would probably respond to if I wasn't all excited about Spencer - and I may message them if things with him don't pan out. That's just how I like to do dating. Sooooo... Why did I contemplate this poly guy? Because deep down inside, I don't believe I deserve to date a single guy, even for a few weeks or months :(

So write back to the poly guy and see if you two click. Why not? What have you got to lose?
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This brief shining moment of happiness? ;)

Honestly? I'm scared to date poly guys because I feel like I will wind up trapped in another relationship that tanks my self esteem. I'm scared of feeling obligated to stay in a relationship that makes me unhappy because poly. If I go out with this guy (or any guy) and hearing him talk about his other partners stresses me out... I don't feel like I can decline future dates because of that. In my mind, that's not an ok reason to say no. If I want to do poly, I have to deal with that, even if it means my anxiety skyrockets and life starts to suck again.

So it doesn't feel like just a coffee date to see if we click. Because if we do click, but his poly situation fucks with my head? I'm stuck. In my head... There are acceptable reasons to not date someone, like no chemistry, or nothing to talk about. But there are also things that make me want to run, but I have to stay, to prove my poly-ness. Like having endless rules or expecting everyone to be BFFs or whatever. I don't feel like I can say no based on poly issues, because that makes me BAD POLY PERSON. So one date feels like potentially signing up for years of misery.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
But there are also things that make me want to run, but I have to stay, to prove my poly-ness. Like having endless rules or expecting everyone to be BFFs or whatever. I don't feel like I can say no based on poly issues, because that makes me BAD POLY PERSON. So one date feels like potentially signing up for years of misery.
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Well... how about dropping the poly label, if it is not helpful to you? Tell yourself that your doing "consensual nonmonogamy" or just something undefined in your own way?

I get not wanting to try a date if you already know his partnered-ness is basically a dealbreaker. I feel that way about men 8 or more years older then me. I don't feel comfortable with age difference in serious relationship. We could click, but then... what?
 
Being poly doesn't mean always having to deal with things that make you uncomfortable. Boundaries are a thing. I've set some pretty stringent ones with my boyfriend around what I am and am not comfortable hearing/knowing in terms of his other partners or dates he goes on. Sometimes I just plain don't want to hear gushing about someone else, or I don't want to listen to the positive qualities they have because it reinforces to me that I *don't* have those qualities. And I've also set boundaries about how much contact I'm okay with between me and any potential future metamours. (Things are well established with the current ones.)

That doesn't make me a bad poly person. In my mind, it actually makes me a *better* one, because I am setting boundaries and clearly communicating instead of getting angry and hurt and resentful because I have to deal with things I'm unhappy or uncomfortable with.

There is no "one right way" to do poly. The only *wrong* way is the way that doesn't work for those involved. If you're forcing yourself into a situation where you're not happy because you think that's what poly means, you aren't doing yourself or your partners any favors. You have the right to be comfortable in your relationships, and if that means saying "Hey, please shut up about your wife, I'm on a date with you not her," then SAY IT. That doesn't make you a bad person, or a bad poly-person, or whatever, it makes you a human being who realizes she has the right to set her own boundaries and make her own choices.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
Dating multiple guys ruins the fun for me. It's not a matter of thinking its disloyal or slutty, it's just unpleasant. I've never been able to feel anything for anybody while I'm dating around, it feels like a chore. And I LIKE feeling all giddy and excited about new people.
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I'm the same way. It feels really draining to me to date around and it dampens the excitement and NRE for me. I become saturated really easily....one, or two people max. On the other hand, Blue seems to draw energy from dating around. I can feel the difference in him. It really does come down to a difference in people.

I hope Spencer works out for you! I think a single guy makes sense for you now...give you some breathing room and space to heal from the hit your self esteem took from dating Dag.
 
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