Kink bring down positive poly

[Blonde7915]

In the past I have got great advice from this forum, so I thought I'd seek it again.

The back story: husband and I have been together 14 years, married 10 years, open/poly 6 years. He has a long-distance girlfriend (together 4.5 years, long distance 3 years) and a regular fuck buddy. When we first started as open/poly I had a boyfriend for 3 years but only causal partners for the last 3 years. Recently I started seeing a guy, Mike. He and I share common kinks, spanking, mostly. This is something that my husband has never shown an interest in. In fact, has commented that he does not get it. But he has also said that that is one of the many pluses of being poly-- we can pursue interests with other partners. My husband has always been aware that I am into spanking.

Mike and I have been seeing each other for about 2 months now, about once a week. As the situation would have it, we have been able to schedule it so that when my husband is seeing his fuck buddy, I am seeing Mike.

However, almost every time I have come back from seeing Mike, my husband has been annoyed, short and moody with me. He has picked fights over little things, such as when I got home, even though he was not home or missing time.

For example, one night Mike and I had dinner out, then got a hotel room. We have a safety rule that if we go to a hotel or house, i.e., not public places, in the early stage of a relationship, we check in with each other. My husband thought there was a lot of unaccounted for time between when dinner would've finished and me contacting him saying we had got a hotel room.

We've had a few big chats about it. He says he feels he is being punished for not being into spanking. He has made comments that, to me, show that he is insecure. Like because I enjoy this kink with someone else, I will enjoy sex more then with my husband. I have also worked out that he has been checking my phone and reading my messages with Mike. I have no problems with this, because I don't feel I have anything to find, but again, to me, it shows that he is feeling insecure. I should add that he was never like this with the guy I was dating when we first started being poly, or any of my casual fuck buddies.

So what should I do? I feel my husband feels insecure because of this added dimension of the spanking. But I'm not sure how to make him feel more secure and comfortable with the situation.

I should also add that I don't go out of my way to tell my husband all the details of what Mike and I get up to, but we always answer honestly when asked about what went on during a date.

 

[loveartist]

I'm having a similar issue with my own husband.

He and I used to do the dom/sub thing, but because of other issues we were/are having, I had to stop.

Now that I'm experimenting with that with a new partner, he wants it back, and it's not something I can do for him, so I've made it clear that it's a need he will have to fill elsewhere.

Unfortunately it isn't that simple in your situation, because he's not into that at all, but still feels left out.

I'm not sure there's an easy fix there, but I hope it all works out. Sometimes people just need time to work out their feelings and get back to normal on their own, and there isn't much you can do until they resolve it themselves.

Every relationship is different, whether it's kink or the way you talk or the way you make love. Do you think this might have come up with or without the spanking thing?

 

[Inyourendo]

Short of trying to incorporate kink with your husband, I don't know. Sounds like he feels left out and maybe sad he can't fulfill you in that way.

 

[graviton]

I'm having a similar issue with my own husband.

He and I used to do the dom/sub thing, but because of other issues we were/are having, I had to stop.

Now that I'm experimenting with that with a new partner, he wants it back, and it's not something I can do for him, so I've made it clear that it's a need he will have to fill elsewhere.

Unfortunately, it isn't that simple in your situation, because he's not into that at all, but still feels left out.

I'm not sure there's an easy fix there, but I hope it all works out. Sometimes people just need time to work out their feelings and get back to normal on their own, and there isn't much you can do until they resolve it themselves.

Every relationship is different, whether it's kink, or the way you talk, or the way you make love. Do you think this might have come up with or without the spanking thing?

I don't understand why you can do the kink with your boyfriend but not your husband.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

I don't understand why you can do the kink with your boyfriend but not your husband

Gralson really struggles to get into subspace with me. Our relationship just isn't "like that." We're more compassionate and loving, less "I'm going to use your body for my own pleasures, bitch!" He likes that sort of play, just not with me, nor I with him.

 

[opalescent]

OP, it sounds like he was fine with his insecurities as long as you were seeing someone pretty much like him. Deep down somewhere, he may have assumed that since you were seeing men who offered what he could offer, then you would stay with him. Mike offers you something different, something you value, and so suddenly, your husband feels he has competition.

Maybe that helps explain the why. Or not.

However, his behavior is not excusable. Yes, you should do what you can to reassure him of his unique place in your life and your bed. Be willing to talk and listen to him about this. Do what you can to ease his insecurities.

Just because you have nothing to hide does not excuse his controlling behavior of checking your messages and phone. That is unacceptable. The temper tantrums and suddenly nitpicking your every move with Mike is also unacceptable.

It is on him to ultimately address his insecurity. You cannot fix his emotions for him. That is not your job. It is his responsibility to do the emotional work of figuring out why he is so insecure all of a sudden and deal with it. You can help. But it's not your job. You can reassure him until the world ends, and if he hasn't dealt with the root cause, then it will be like a drop in the ocean. Reassurance is a good thing to do, but it will not fix the issue. He is only one who can ultimately resolve this.

Encourage him to find the root of this problem, tell him you will be on that journey with him as a supportive partner, and reassure him from time to time of his place in your life. But do not accept this behavior. He needs to put a stop to the childish tantrums and controlling spouse bullshit.

(Oh, and by 'fixing' I do not mean telling you to stop seeing Mike, or other kinky people in the future. That would be more controlling behavior.)

 

[SchrodingersCat]

We've had a few big chats about it and he says he feels he is being punished for not being into spanking. He has made comments that show he is insecure, like because I enjoy this kink with someone else, I will enjoy sex more then with my husband.

I would focus on this "punished" comment. First of all, "punished" isn't a "feeling." So try and get at what feeling he's expressing with that phrase, and what need he has that isn't being met. Example feelings: Disappointed, sad, anxious. Example needs: Equality, consideration, acceptance. Here's a more comprehensive list: Feelings list & Needs list

Once he works out what his needs are, you can start to look at what changes you can make so that those needs are met. Sometimes, just identifying them concisely is enough. For example, if he's feeling a need for equality, but he doesn't want to spank you, just acknowledging this imbalance may satisfy his need.

My first instinct was to ask "punished for what?" but I think that sidesteps the real issue, which is that he has some need that isn't being met. Also note, that may be a need that he can satisfy himself, for example, by accepting his own difference in tastes and how that doesn't make him an inferior partner.

 

[vanquish]

Gralson really struggles to get into subspace with me. Our relationship just isn't "like that." We're more compassionate and loving, less "I'm going to use your body for my own pleasures, bitch!" He likes that sort of play, just not with me, nor I with him.

All due respect, but if that's what you're equating a D/s relationship with I'm not sure you've educated yourself in the lifestyle very much. BDSM relationships are, at their core, compassionate and loving, not antithetical to that, as your comment suggests you think it is. Yes, degradation, humiliation, servitude and all different manners of play have their rough side, but all in order to serve a healthy relationship.

I'm not trying to make this personal, really. It's just that the misconception above is something that we fight against all the time and I just can't pass it by.

I do like what Opalescent had to say. Being supportive to someone in his situation is like being in a relay race as their partner. You can and should assure them, but at a point it's their job to take the baton and work on themselves.

SC also makes a good point that there's much more uncovering of what he needs to feel right again.

Putting myself in his shoes, he's probably thinking if he were into spanking he'd be getting:

1. more of your time (meaning he needs more)
2. all of your time (which would point to him not being comfortable with polyamory)
3. more passion from you in the bedroom (whether there's a real deficiency or only a perceived one)
4. a feeling that he fulfills your needs and fantasies

And that's just the beginning of what it could be. Spend time with him talking it out, but don't get drawn into wallowing with him. Let him his share of the work and then use those realizations to come to a closer consensus.

 

[loveartist]

I don't understand why you can do the kink with your boyfriend but not your husband

Right now my husband and I are having other issues. He's been unemployed for quite some time, and because my contract for my own employment is up in a year and a half, wondering how we're going to continue on is very stressful and scary.

In addition, while I normally wouldn't have a problem with being the breadwinner indefinitely, in my opinion, the fact that I'm also covering expenses for a son he does not have with me further complicates things.

Because of those factors, and my apparent inability to completely separate sex from life, reality from fantasy, etc., I find it near impossible to submit to him in that way.

Trust and respect are the issues we are having, specifically with regard to supporting our children. Until those issues are resolved, those are needs of his that must be met elsewhere, perhaps with someone whose children do not rely upon him.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

All due respect, but if that's what you're equating a D/s relationship with I'm not sure you've educated yourself in the lifestyle very much.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I did not intend to imply that BDSM cannot be loving and compassionate. I was speaking of one type of BDSM play, specifically the detached objectification that Gralson enjoys as a bottom. He likes to be used and abused, treated as a sex object, beaten like a punching bag, and possessed as my personal plaything.

I don't understand it and I never will. His reactions when we're both able to get into that headspace and play like that convince me that he truly does enjoy it. But love and compassion must be firmly locked in a box, or he completely loses his headspace.

BDSM relationships are, at their core, compassionate and loving, not antithetical to that, as your comment suggests you think it is.

BDSM relationships are, "at their core," whatever the people in a BDSM relationship want it to be. Some of them are compassionate and loving, absolutely. But the class of all "BDSM relationships" includes, for example, play partners who are not in a long term D/s relationship, who only meet to use each other's kink to meet their own needs, and then part ways until next play session. These "kink buddies" may not be your preferred BDSM relationship style, but they cannot be discounted as valid just because they don't fit your ideal.

Yes, degradation, humiliation, servitude and all different manners of play have their rough side, but all in order to serve a healthy relationship.

Kink includes a tremendous range of interactions, and "Use my body and don't see me as a person" style play sessions are absolutely contained within that spectrum.

I'm not trying to make this personal, really. It's just that the misconception above is something that we fight against all the time and I just can't pass it by.

I believe it was more a misunderstanding of what I meant than a misconception that I have.

Fucking is fucking. Fucking, itself, is not compassionate and loving. That doesn't mean that two people who are in a compassionate and loving relationship can't fuck. Fucking is still sex, and other kinds of sex are compassionate and loving, but fucking is not.

Some men cannot fuck their wives. They see her as the mother of their children, the caretaker of their home, the baker of their church's cookies. They can make loving, passionate love to their wife. They can go out and cheat on her with some harlot, and fuck her brains inside out. But they can't fuck their wives.

Similarly, BDSM play can be compassionate and loving, or it can be dirty and objectifying. Depending on your personal desires, it can be easy or hard to get into an objectifying frame of mind. In our case, it's hard. For other people, it may be easy. For other people still, their BDSM play is more compassionate and loving, and they just don't get into that dirty and objectifying frame of mind at all. Good for them, but not relevant to us. Our BDSM play is dirty and objectifying. In order to achieve a head space where he can feel like an object and I can feel like the owner of that object, we have to turn off everything that comes naturally in our relationship, because I'm just not the objectifying type.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Right now my husband and I are having other issues. He's been unemployed for quite some time, and because my contract for my own employment is up in a year and a half, wondering how we're going to continue on is very stressful and scary.

In addition, while I normally wouldn't have a problem with being the breadwinner indefinitely, in my opinion, the fact that I'm also covering expenses for a son he does not have with me further complicates things.

Ah. So now we come to what may be the core of it all.

When you had these other fuck buddies, were you having these other issues? Is there any escapism happening with the other guy? "Getting away from it all," that sort of thing? If that's not the case, is it possible that's how your husband sees it?

Many men find it emasculating to rely on their wives for financial support. It's unfortunate, this being 2014 and we're supposed to be past all that, but we're not. Old habits die hard.

It doesn't sound like you're thrilled about supporting his son. Does the son not have a mother who can cover her child's expenses? Is the child living with her or are you supporting an adult child? The phrasing made me wonder, because people don't usually call it "covering expenses" in regards to a child who lives with them.

Furthermore, if he's got some desires that are not being met within the relationship because of other reasons, it's understandable to feel upset when someone else is getting those desires met with his wife.

Bottom line, I usually recommend having all relationships on firm and solid ground before starting new relationships. It doesn't sound like your marriage is on firm and solid ground at this time. That's probably where I would begin to deal with the problem of a husband exhibiting signs of insecurity. It's one thing to expect someone to just deal with their insecurity when it really is irrational. It's another thing entirely when they can see the cracks in their marriage getting bigger and causing other problems.

Honestly, I would probably call off all the fuck buddies, yours and hubby's, until I got the marriage issues sorted out. Not the "romantic" partners, because that's a different kind of commitment, but the FBs can take care of their own sex needs for a while.

 

[Blonde7915]

Thanks for the great feedback. I like the idea of supporting him, but in the end he needs to work out why he is feeling/behaving this way. As I said, he has always been fine with other boyfriends or casual fuck buddies of mine. I asked my husband more about what he means by being 'punished' by not being into spanking. He explained that Mike gets to do something that has been a part of my sexual fantasies since childhood and he feels like he is missing out on something or some part of me. He said he knows it kind of silly, because we have tried spanking together, and he was just doing it because I wanted it, and was not into it. (One of things I enjoy about spanking with Mike is that he is really into it.)

I wish I had known about this site during my whole time as a poly person rather then just the last six months.

 

[Blonde7915]

Bottom line... I usually recommend having all relationships on firm and solid ground before starting new relationships. It doesn't sound like your marriage is on firm and solid ground at this time. That's probably where I would begin to deal with the problem of a husband exhibiting signs of insecurity. It's one thing to expect someone to just deal with their insecurity when it really is irrational. It's another thing entirely when they can see the cracks in their marriage getting bigger and causing other problems.

Honestly, I would probably call off all the fuck buddies, yours and hubby's, until I got the marriage issues sorted out. Not the "romantic" partners because that's a different kind of commitment, but the fb's can take care of their own sex needs for a while.

I think you are working two different posters into one. I am the original poster, and there are no issues in my marriage, other then my husband's discomfort with me forming a relationship with someone who shares a similar kink with me.

 

[bella123456]

I find it really difficult to enjoy spanking/submissive fantasies whilst being the sole money earner and supporting husband and his child.

I think it can mess with your head a bit, particularly if you are a feminist of some description. I think it's a big messy wad of conflicting values and learning. I write to say, really, don't feel bad about it. Most people would find that conflicting.

 

[vanquish]

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I did not intend to imply that BDSM cannot be loving and compassionate. I was speaking of one type of BDSM play, specifically the detached objectification that Gralson enjoys as a bottom. He likes to be used and abused, treated as a sex object, beaten like a punching bag, and possessed as my personal play thing.

I don't understand it and I never will. His reactions when we're both able to get into that head space and play like that convince me that he truly does enjoy it. But love and compassion must be firmly locked in a box, or he completely loses his head space.



BDSM relationships are, "at their core," whatever the people in a BDSM relationship want it to be. Some of them are compassionate and loving, absolutely. But the class of all "BDSM relationships" includes, for example, play partners who are not in a long term D/s relationship, who only meet to use each other's kink to meet their own needs, and then part ways until next play session. These "kink buddies" may not be your preferred BDSM relationship style, but they cannot be discounted as valid just because they don't fit your ideal.

Kink includes a tremendous range of interactions, and "Use my body and don't see me as a person" style play sessions are absolutely contained within that spectrum.

I believe it was more a misunderstanding of what I meant than a misconception that I have.

Fucking is fucking. Fucking, itself, is not compassionate and loving. That doesn't mean that two people who are in a compassionate and loving relationship can't fuck. Fucking is still sex, and other kinds of sex are compassionate and loving, but fucking is not.

Some men cannot fuck their wives. They see her as the mother of their children, the caretaker of their home, the baker of their church's cookies. They can make loving, passionate love to their wife. They can go out and cheat on her with some harlot, and fuck her brains inside out. But they can't fuck their wives.

Similarly, BDSM play can be compassionate and loving, or it can be dirty and objectifying. Depending on your personal desires, it can be easy or hard to get into an objectifying frame of mind. In our case, it's hard. For other people, it may be easy. For other people still, their BDSM play is more compassionate and loving, and they just don't get into that dirty and objectifying frame of mind at all. Good for them, but not relevant to us. Our BDSM play is dirty and objectifying. In order to achieve a head space where he can feel like an object and I can feel like the owner of that object, we have to turn off everything that comes naturally in our relationship, because I'm just not the objectifying type.

You're reinforcing my point. The guiding principle of safe, sane, and consensual BDSM, as it is accepted to be practiced by the community at large, is that all of it, even the objectifying and degradation, are done in service of the relationship, because you care and respect one another. In fact, those things are being done because you love and respect them. That's not to be confused with being lovey-dovey and puppy-dog love.

Objectification and degradation that are untethered to the healthier core and healthier purpose becomes abuse for the sake of abuse.

 

[loveartist]

Honestly, I would probably call off all the fuck buddies, yours and hubby's, until I got the marriage issues sorted out. Not the "romantic" partners, because that's a different kind of commitment, but the FBs can take care of their own sex needs for a while.

I only have one romantic partner outside my marriage. My husband and I don't generally have the time or the energy for fuckbuddies unless we are physically separated, like when I deploy.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

You're re-enforcing my point. The guiding principle of safe, sane, and consensual BDSM, as it is accepted to be practiced by the community at large is that all of it, even the objectifying and degradation, are done in service of the relationship, because you care and respect one another. In fact, those things are being done because you love and respect them.

Only if there's a "relationship." In my experience, the play done outside relationships is very different in nature and in execution than the play done within relationships. It sounds like you're saying that only "BDSM in loving, compassionate relationship really counts" and that everything else is fake or misrepresenting the kink community.

BDSM play can also be anonymous encounters at public parties. The respect is only as deep as you would respect any perfect stranger. The care is only as much as is needed to be responsible through a scene, and not leave someone dangling out there in subspace, scared and alone. The love... is busy partying it up with her friends at the other end of the building.

 

[hyperskeptic]

There may be something else at work in the OP's husband's response.

Speaking from my own experience as a deeply vanilla person, I have struggled even to understand the point of BDSM.

To me there's something alien and incomprehensible about kink.

(Please don't hate on me for daring to write all this in the open form. This is merely a matter of my own reaction to things, not a matter of what is True or what is Right. And, anyway, I make no apologies for being so deeply vanilla, and expect none from those who are deeply not vanilla.)

I was for a time involved in a woman - I've nicknamed her "Nyx", elsewhere - who was quite seriously kinky in all her other relationships. One of the reasons she gave for breaking off with me was her growing sense that the most I could summon regarding kink was a kind of grudging, amused tolerance, when what she needed from me was understanding or, at least, acceptance.

Now my wife - "Vix" - is getting involved with a younger woman, and they have been playing around with a D/s dynamic.

My wife described this, explained her emerging understanding of the role of consent and care in D/s relationships . . . and my response was at least a kind of aversion, though not actual disgust.

I'm still trying to triangulate what my reaction actually was. It has something to do with my understanding and my gut feeling about consent and the limits beyond which it should not be pushed. [Edit: In this case, it's also wrapped up in a lot of mystical hooey about "energy" I find deeply distasteful for other reasons.]

In any case, I guess the basic thing is that I was taken by surprise: my wife has expressed some idle curiosity about kink in the past, but this (fairly mild) interest was new. To that extent, she is not the person I thought she was or expected her to be.

To that extent, something alien has made its way into a 22-year relationship.

It's not hard for me to understand, then, how the OP's husband might have an adverse reaction to the OP's exploration of BDSM. It may be just that it's a new and alien aspect of someone he thought he knew, an aspect that may be baffling and, for him, perhaps, frightening.

It may be a struggle for him, and for the OP, to work through that at least to the point of amused tolerance, if not actual acceptance. I suppose that would be better than surliness.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

(Please don't hate on me for daring to write all this in the open form. This is merely a matter of my own reaction to things, not a matter of what is True or what is Right.

[Edit: In this case, it's also wrapped up in a lot of mystical hooey about "energy" I find deeply distasteful for other reasons.]

Interesting how you put the big disclaimer on kink, and then call energy work "mystical hooey." I can forgive it, because it's like any sense. I could no more expect a blind person to understand the "mystical hooey" of sight or a deaf person to understand he "mystical hooey" of sound, or for any of us to understand the "mystical hooey" of navigating thousands of kilometres using the Earth's magnetic field for a map.

It's something I would love to study scientifically and somehow measure or quantify, but I'm not a neurologist.

 

[IndieSolo]

All due respect, but if that's what you're equating a D/s relationship with I'm not sure you've educated yourself in the lifestyle very much.

OMG, this made me almost snort soda out my nose! You have no idea who you've said that to!