Lots of change all at once

[majormerrick]

There have been three major relationship changes/additions in our family in the last week or so, and I’m kind of overwhelmed. In a good way, but overwhelmed.

The first thing that happened is a change in my relationship with Swift. She was feeling ignored and so I made a conscious effort to improve things with her. She desperately wants affection from me and has turned into a nearly constant companion when I’m home. Any time I’m sitting down, I end up with her in my lap or with her little body pressed up against me.

The second and most surprising thing is Ares’ sudden, out-of-the-blue sexual connection with Renarde. She had asked me (and Corsac) if we were OK with her exploring a bit of heterosexual play…I assumed she was meaning kissing, touching, and similar light behaviors. She’s been exploring her gender and sexual orientation to get a better sense of who she is, and I’m OK with that. What I wasn’t prepared for was the sight of her enjoying an extremely energetic bout of deep anal sex. I have no idea if this is a one-time thing or if this will continue…but everybody is pretty shocked as this is a major change from her normal behavior.

Finally, I’ve made a connection with Artemis. I still think she and Ares are a good fit for a relationship, but she’s chosen just me for now. I made the discovery that she and Swift have had some occasional casual sex, but Artemis has said that I’m the one she loves and wants for her girlfriend. I can’t return that feeling yet, but I hope that someday soon I will be able to tell her that I love her also. We had sex for the first time on Friday night, and I spent the night in her bed instead of my normal spot, which felt really strange. She’s told me that I’m her first girlfriend, and only the third woman she has slept with. For her lack of experience, her skills are amazing.

With all this going on, I have more questions than answers. I’ve got new and intense energy going on with both Swift and Artemis, and each one is needing lots of time and attention. Swift is more physical…always touching, caressing, and wanting to be close. Artemis wants that too, but she wants to engage mentally and debate and have lots of conversation.

Sleeping arrangements is the biggest issue right now, and I have no idea how to balance it. I used to sleep with Renarde on one side and Ares on the other. Now I have Swift sandwiched between me and Ares. But I have no idea how to give Artemis what she needs, unless I spend nights in her room away from the others (which Swift and Renarde dislike) or to move her in with the rest of us, which could be awkward with her currently platonic dynamic with Ares. I dislike the idea of having to maintain a schedule of bed-hopping, but I’m not sure if there’s a better option.

My sexual energy is also an issue. I strongly believe that sex is the glue that holds intimate relationships together. I like one-on-one sex, group sex, whatever. But I have six sexual partners now, and I’m not sure how to spread the love around. Friday night was the first time since I married in January that Ares and I haven’t had sex. I also didn’t have sex with Renarde, and I think that irritated her a bit. My sex drive for Swift and for Artemis is super high right now…NRE and all that. My desire outpaces my ability, which is a bit embarrassing.

This is all just so much at once I’m not sure how to handle the complete package.

 

[lunabunny]

There have been three major relationship changes/additions in our family in the last week or so, and I’m kind of overwhelmed. In a good way, but overwhelmed.

I strongly believe that sex is the glue that holds intimate relationships together. I have six sexual partners now, and I’m not sure how to spread the love around.

With all this going on, I have more questions than answers. This is all just so much at once I’m not sure how to handle the complete package.

MajorMerrick, I realise you haven't asked for advice, per se, nor asked any specific questions of the forum, but FWIW here are my thoughts:

As I think many people on the forum mentioned/warned in an earlier thread of yours, you were already in danger of spreading yourself too thin, emotionally, sexually and time management wise - and now it seems you've reached that tipping point.

While most of us here are involved in poly/non-mono relationships of some sort and therefore believe love is "infinite", time and energy are NOT unlimited.

Granted, you hold some comparatively unconventional religious and social beliefs, even among those who practise polyamory, and I don't wish to belittle those or suggest there is any ONE "right" way to do things, however I do have some concerns that you may be trying to hold to ideals that are very difficult to live up to in practice.

The first thing that happened is a change in my relationship with Swift.
She desperately wants affection from me
Any time I’m sitting down, I end up with her in my lap or with her little body pressed up against me.

That sounds all very sweet - albeit, almost as if you think of Swift as a "pet" of some kind - but why is Swift "desperate" for physical affection from you?

Last time we covered this subject, you said you felt it was your duty (or words to that effect) to show affection, sexually, to all Ares' wives/everyone in the household - though you also indicated you do/did not feel exactly the same depth of affection/love for Swift as she does for you. Still, you felt you somehow "owed" her your attentions.

If you enjoy the intimate physical contact with her, that's fine. However, I do not believe anyone "owes" anybody else sex or ought to feel pressured into providing it "on call" simply by the weight of someone else's feelings/expectations/desperation for contact.

Finally, I’ve made a connection with Artemis. I still think she and Ares are a good fit for a relationship, but she’s chosen just me for now.

Artemis has said that I’m the one she loves and wants for her girlfriend. I can’t return that feeling yet, but I hope that someday soon I will be able to tell her that I love her also.

We had sex for the first time on Friday night and I spent the night in her bed instead of my normal spot, which felt really strange.

Likewise, if you don't feel as strongly about Artemis as she does about YOU (whether or not you believe she and Ares are better suited), why are you allowing her to dictate the terms of your relationship... i.e. to simply decide she "wants (you) for her girlfriend", and to convince you to stay the night in her bed, if it makes you feel strange or less than comfortable?

You are not in love with her, by your own admission - and may never be - yet I notice you now classify her as your "GF#3" in your signature. Why is this?


By my count, you already had 3-4 regular sexual partners, who all sleep in the same bed by choice, and are expected to perform sexually upon demand (unless unwell or for some other "good" reason, if memory serves). Now you've expanded this to 6 sexual partners, seemingly on the whim of those who've chosen/decided they "want" you in that role (sexual partner/girlfriend) even if you don't feel exactly the same.

In my view, this leaves you wide open to burn-out AND to issues with time management, low energy, sleeping arrangements and emotional discord due to resentment/expectations of pre-existing partners.

If YOU were the initiator and/or equally willing participant in the newer relationship dynamics... and if you felt you had more than enough time and energy to devote to meeting the needs of six partners... then I'd say go for it, that's your business.

However, your OP indicates you're feeling overwhelmed and full of questions about how best to keep everybody else happy and satisfied. Personally, I do not believe you need to, or should be expected to fulfil the desires of EVERYONE within your rather large household. To attempt this is to do yourself a disservice, and risk major stress and possible health problems as you become progressively more exhausted. Not just physically/sexually, but emotionally/mentally as well.

Relationships are wonderful, but do consume vast amounts of time, thought and energy. Six "full-time" partners is more than almost anyone could handle, I would think. (I say full-time because as far as I'm aware, you all live and sleep together, with the possible exception of Artemis.)

You may have to step back a little from this situation and try to view it with impartial, rather than idealistic eyes... and try to determine who and what it is that YOU really want.

If you take the time to really analyse what's going on within your household and within your own psyche, emotionally... and STILL decide you need to provide love, care and intimacy for ALL these people... you may need to draw some firmer boundaries around BOTH your physical space and your available time, in order to better protect yourself.

I'm not suggesting anyone is out to do you harm or use you, deliberately. But in order to give to others, you have to have something to give.

The second and most surprising thing is Ares’ sudden, out-of-the-blue sexual connection with Renarde. She had asked me (and Corsac) if we were OK with her exploring a bit of heterosexual play What I wasn’t prepared for was the sight of her enjoying an extremely energetic bout of deep anal sex.
everybody is pretty shocked as this is a major change from her normal behavior.

Is this a problem for you or Renarde's other partner/s? If so, why? It seems she made it clear she wished to explore other aspects of her sexuality and sought you blessing, which you gave. You assumed she meant something she did not... or else, she wasn't sure WHAT she really wanted, and things "just happened" and she discovered she was more open to sex with a male than she'd thought. As long as Renarde and Ares are happy enough with their exploration/dynamic, it doesn't sound as if it's much cause for alarm.

Sleeping arrangements is the biggest issue right now, and I have no idea how to balance it. I used to sleep with Renarde on one side and Ares on the other. Now I have Swift sandwiched between me and Ares. But I have no idea how to give Artemis what she needs, unless I spend nights in her room away from the others (which Swift and Renarde dislike) or to move her in with the rest of us, which could be awkward with her currently platonic dynamic with Ares. I dislike the idea of having to maintain a schedule of bed-hopping, but I’m not sure if there’s a better option.

My sexual energy is also an issue.

See my earlier comments regarding limited energy, burn-out, boundaries, and trying to fulfil everyone else's expectations at your own expense.

Why do you feel like you need to participate in things which you dislike or are awkward for you?

If you feel the need/insist on maintaining a sexual relationship with six people, it seems to me that some degree of bed-hopping, re-arrangement of sleeping positions and scheduling changes would almost certainly go with the territory.

Logistically, it's impossible to have six lovers AND sleep next to each of them every night, shared bed or not. At any given point, SOMEONE is going to be left out, or find themselves sandwiched in an uncomfortable position or not with the person that'd be their first choice.

Clearly this is something you are going to have to give some thought and discussion to, be realistic about, and prepared to compromise on. That goes for all in this poly network.

 

[Ravenscroft]

I feel it's likely the problem will be diagnosed as something like "excessive female needs for affection & attention," & the solution chosen will be "we ought to add another woman -- maybe two -- in order to spread the demands thinner." That would not work.

Most of the people involved had little previous exposure to polyamory, much less experience. Monogamy (Monogamism, actually) relies on territoriality, on "being Number One," as indicative of True Love -- it's 100% or nothing. Going from "primary" to "co-primary" is actually quite a wrench, difficult enough in expanding a dyad to fit three people, as well as the "all together, all the time" expectation of closed relationships.

Increasingly, everyone is talking (demanding, really) but nobody's doing well at listening except in the sense of carrying, of seeing a need to cater to each other's insecurities.

Those insecurities need to be recognized, admitted, addressed, discussed, solved. To do less is to pile dysfunction upon dysfunction.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi majormerrick,
I think we could say that your cup runneth over.

From the tone of your (original) post, I get the impression that you are able to adapt to the new circumstances, just not all at once and not right away. As you haven't asked for advice, I won't try to give any, I think you will figure out how to work things out eventually. Though I do agree with lunabunny that a certain amount of compromise will probably be necessary, what with all the moving parts in this equation.

Your situation is somewhat different from the "standard poly situation," if there is a standard. So, some people will have doubts about whether you can make it work. I don't think I could handle being in your situation, but that isn't your problem because I'm not in it. As long as you are happy with how things are going, I can only be happy for you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[majormerrick]

That sounds all very sweet - albeit, almost as if you think of Swift as a "pet" of some kind - but why is Swift "desperate" for physical affection from you?

Swift tends to crave attention from partners who are older. She had intentions toward Reina several years ago already when she was still quite young, and married Ares when she was barely 18. I think part of her attraction to me is due to our age difference, and also our physical difference. She looks young for her age, whereas I unfortunately do not. Her body is slender and girlish….my build screams “middle age.” It is an odd dynamic. She really plays the “cute factor” to her full advantage with me, which I find irresistible. She does it somewhat with Reina as well. She’s a lot more straight-forward with Ares, acting more like an adult wife and mother.

Likewise, if you don't feel as strongly about Artemis as she does about YOU (whether or not you believe she and Ares are better suited), why are you allowing her to dictate the terms of your relationship... i.e. to simply decide she "wants (you) for her girlfriend", and to convince you to stay the night in her bed, if it makes you feel strange or less than comfortable? You are not in love with her, by your own admission - and may never be - yet I notice you now classify her as your "GF#3" in your signature. Why is this?

I use the term “love” more exclusively than some people, I think. I also don’t see romantic love as an absolute requirement for a decent relationship or a sexual connection. It is something that develops more over time… in other words, love is learned. I think my relationship with Artemis has a future, but her feelings are more fully developed than mine. I’ve been clear about this, so I’m not hiding it from her. I want to give my connection with her a chance and get to know her better in this way. For now, the physical chemistry is fantastic. I also want to love her because I see that Ares loves her, whether he will admit it or not. She’s his very close comrade, in a similar way to how he and I have interacted over the years.

You may have to step back a little from this situation and try to view it with impartial, rather than idealistic eyes... and try to determine who and what it is that YOU really want.

I want a lot of things…probably more than I can handle. It is kind of in the same way that a person will take too much food on their plate because their eyes are bigger than their stomach. It becomes too much of a good thing, but you can’t put it down. I enjoy a good relationship, and I REALLY enjoy sex. I like pleasing my partners and having my efforts appreciated. I see physical bonding as one of the primary features that keeps people together and in love, and so it is super important. But….I end up in the situation where my mouth and my hands write a check that the rest of me can’t cash. I initiate, and then lose energy in the middle of it.

You assumed she meant something she did not... or else, she wasn't sure WHAT she really wanted, and things "just happened"

I wasn’t prepared for things between them to go that far that quickly. Given her past aversion to any thought of heterosexual interaction, it is a paradigm shift for the rest of us to see her doing it with such eagerness. It is also a surprise since Ares has typically acted “by the book” when it comes to relationships and religion, and this interaction goes beyond what is permitted for a man and a woman outside of marriage. Even though he and I had a relationship years ago, he wouldn’t have sex with me until we were married. I don’t have a problem with it, but the atypical behavior has the rest of us wondering.

 

[majormerrick]

Increasingly, everyone is talking (demanding, really) but nobody's doing well at listening except in the sense of carrying, of seeing a need to cater to each other's insecurities.

Those insecurities need to be recognized, admitted, addressed, discussed, solved. To do less is to pile dysfunction upon dysfunction.

I'll admit, you definitely have a point. Our house is a pile of insecurities from our former lives. To deal with it...there's so much I don't think it can be unraveled. Here's just a sampling:

Me - alcoholic/abusive father, mom in prison
Renarde - genderfluid with identity issues
Corsac - stifling, traditional religious family
Reina - PTSD, nearly killed by former partner
Swift - orphaned at age 11
Ares - PTSD/trauma
Artemis - ???

Our insecurities are probably one thing we all have in common. Fear of being alone is a big one, but it would take a lifetime to address it all. Sadly, most of this stuff doesn't go away, even with time and counseling. You end up living with it and finding people who don't freak out about it or see you as "damaged goods." Life gets extremely messy.

 

[ref2018]

If you never had sex with a man until you recently married Ares, what made you think you couldn't get pregnant before?

 

[lunabunny]

Thank you for answering/clarifying, MajorMerrick. It gives us a better idea of the overall dynamics of the household, as well as where you are coming from personally.

Swift tends to crave attention from partners who are older. She had intentions toward Reina several years ago already when she was still quite young, and married Ares when she was barely 18. I think part of her attraction to me is due to our age difference, and also our physical difference. She looks young for her age, whereas I unfortunately do not. Her body is slender and girlish….my build screams “middle age.” It is an odd dynamic. She really plays the “cute factor” to her full advantage with me, which I find irresistible. She does it somewhat with Reina as well. She’s a lot more straight-forward with Ares, acting more like an adult wife and mother.

Swift - orphaned at age 11

At risk of playing armchair psychologist, don't you think one of the reasons Swift may be so attracted to older partners in general is because she was orphaned at such a young age, and may be trying to get her needs (for being nurtured, cared for/cossetted, parented) met by seeking out older people to cohabit with? i.e. She seeking a mother/father figure, or has something akin to what's commonly known as mommy or daddy issues.

In her case, she has sought to meet these needs in a variety of relationships with older women and men who she idealises (from what you say, she did so even from the time she was underage), and this has translated, or been (mis)directed into a desire to enter sexual relationships with multiple people she loves and trusts, rather than by forming close platonic or familial-substitute relationships.

True, she is a consenting adult... now... however, her true needs may not be of a physical-love variety so much as needing closeness and nurturing. The family environment goes some way to provide that, I'm sure, however just be careful she is not being (unintentionally) taken advantage of, due to the general dynamic of group sexual activity. She may need something more/different than what she's actually getting. I can't say for sure, though therapy may go a long way to unpacking what she is really missing from her life.

I use the term “love” more exclusively than some people, I think. I also don’t see romantic love as an absolute requirement for a decent relationship or a sexual connection. It is something that develops more over time… in other words, love is learned.

I think my relationship with Artemis has a future, but her feelings are more fully developed than mine. I’ve been clear about this, so I’m not hiding it from her.

I don't use the word "love" or the phrase "in love with" easily or freely either. And it's true that romantic love is not a requirement for a fulfilling, enjoyable sexual relationship in many cases (though I admit it is for me). Be that as it may, this is somewhat tangential to what I was trying to determine when I asked you the question about your budding relationship with Artemis.

What I meant was... it's usually preferable if both people are on the same page about the love issue from the get-go. If only ONE person is in love and the other is not, or one wants/expects more from the relationship... it can create an emotional imbalance where one party may become insecure and needy, while the other may feel pressured or guilty that they can't quite meet the other's expectations.

I also want to love her because I see that Ares loves her, whether he will admit it or not. She’s his very close comrade, in a similar way to how he and I have interacted over the years.

He MAY love her... or not... or he may "love" her as a friend, but not in a romantic/sexual way. I can't tell, because I'm not a witness to the situation. And it's not up to you to decide FOR him/them... that is a realisation or decision the two concerned have to come to on their own - if they ever do.

What IS certain, in my view, is that you are not obliged to step in a begin a relationship with Artemis, to fill whatever emotional needs she has that aren't being met by Ares or anyone else. Even if you both mutually decide to engage in a sexual relationship, it doesn't automatically make her your "girlfriend" at this time, though she may WANT that... if you do not think of her that way, or cannot meet that particular need.

I want a lot of things…probably more than I can handle. It is kind of in the same way that a person will take too much food on their plate because their eyes are bigger than their stomach.

It becomes too much of a good thing, but you can’t put it down. I enjoy a good relationship, and I REALLY enjoy sex. I like pleasing my partners and having my efforts appreciated. I see physical bonding as one of the primary features that keeps people together and in love, and so it is super important. But….I end up in the situation where my mouth and my hands write a check that the rest of me can’t cash. I initiate, and then lose energy in the middle of it.

Me - alcoholic/abusive father, mom in prison

Yes, I see that - and it is becoming a problem for you.

To go with your analogy... a person may crave certain foods and try to cram more onto their plate and into their stomach than they need, or is good for them at any given time. If they over-indulge beyond a certain point, it is inevitable that they'll end up feeling sick, throwing up, or in tremendous pain. To do this over and over without learning from the last time, will eventually cause long-term health problems - diabetes, digestive issues , food allergies and worse.

Like Swift and others in your family - and judging by past posts of yours - you had a rough start to life. It's natural for some people to "overcompensate" for a lack of love and care within their family of origin, by trying to tailor or manufacture later relationships to "make up for" the needs that weren't met during their earlier life.

For example, I have a friend who lost her first two daughters to a genetic disorder that wasn't diagnosed until she'd already given birth to the second. After divorcing the father (their marriage failed due to the stress and grief), she married someone else who wasn't a carrier and proceeded to have several more healthy children. Not that there is anything wrong with that, however, it became pretty clear by the sixth child that she was continually getting pregnant/birthing more babies in order to fill the void left by her deceased children - an impossibility, as one child cannot replace another - and as kind of an "insurance policy" should she lose any more. That is a terribly unfair burden to put on an innocent child.

What do you plan on doing, if Ares meets Wife#4 one day, or one of your girlfriends enters into a relationship with yet another woman and she joins your household? Start a physical relationship with them too... because you don't want to leave them out, or because they decide they like/love you and need attention, and you feel you shouldn't deny them? I don't mean this sarcastically... but as Kevin said, your cup already runneth over.

IMHO, you NEED to decide what your game-plan is going to be, from here on out. You ALL need to discuss this issue, as mature adult human beings and partners, and come to some sort of compromise... draw some personal boundaries about what you are/aren't "up for"... and make clear the circumstances under which you'll enforce your boundaries. Simply adding more and more partners... more obligations and time/energy stressors to your life... is not going to cut it in the end.

Given (Renarde's) past aversion to any thought of heterosexual interaction, it is a paradigm shift... It is also a surprise since Ares has typically acted “by the book” when it comes to relationships and religion, and this interaction goes beyond what is permitted for a man and a woman outside of marriage. Even though he and I had a relationship years ago, he wouldn’t have sex with me until we were married.

You say you don't have a problem with their activity, but is it possible you are somewhat... not jealous... but maybe resentful/confused that Ares made you wait till you were married before he'd have sex with you, and claims to hold to certain religious principles... YET he is seemingly breaking those with impunity where Renarde is concerned (?)

And I don't mean this in a sarcastic or crude way... but is it also possible that Ares might be using anal sex as a technical "loophole" (pardon the pun) because it's "not REAL sex" (i.e. PIV intercourse) in order to cleanse his conscience in this matter? Plenty of religious people/virgins over the centuries have used similar "outs" such as handjobs, oral and anal sex to avoid labelling what they're doing as "sex".

 

[majormerrick]

At risk of playing armchair psychologist, don't you think one of the reasons Swift may be so attracted to older partners in general is because she was orphaned at such a young age, and may be trying to get her needs (for being nurtured, cared for/cossetted, parented) met by seeking out older people to cohabit with? i.e. She seeking a mother/father figure, or has something akin to what's commonly known as mommy or daddy issues.

I’ve thought of this before, and it explains a lot. I had a lot of contact with her during her teenage years helping her with her studies and life in general, so she probably still sees me somewhat in that role, and has combined it with her romantic attachment.

True, she is a consenting adult... now... however, her true needs may not be of a physical-love variety so much as needing closeness and nurturing. The family environment goes some way to provide that, I'm sure, however just be careful she is not being (unintentionally) taken advantage of, due to the general dynamic of group sexual activity. She may need something more/different than what she's actually getting.

I try to give her whatever she indicates that she needs. Lately, that is a lot of physical attention. There’s been some issues with her kids as well, so I think she uses my affection to “recharge” after being drained by that. I let her be the driving force in when/where/how far our relationship goes.
I wasn’t feeling very good this morning and since I didn’t have to work I stayed in bed a long time. Swift came back to bed after doing a couple of chores and cuddled up to me. It’s rare for us to have that kind of one-on-one time away from everybody else. She is very insistent about the affection she wants, and she goes as far as taking my hands and placing them on her body when she wants more contact than she’s getting.

IMHO, you NEED to decide what your game-plan is going to be, from here on out. You ALL need to discuss this issue, as mature adult human beings and partners, and come to some sort of compromise... draw some personal boundaries about what you are/aren't "up for"... and make clear the circumstances under which you'll enforce your boundaries. Simply adding more and more partners... more obligations and time/energy stressors to your life... is not going to cut it in the end.

I’ll bring that up at our next meeting. I’m pretty sure that a decision about “no more girls” can be reached without any fuss.

You say you don't have a problem with their activity, but is it possible you are somewhat... not jealous... but maybe resentful/confused that Ares made you wait till you were married before he'd have sex with you, and claims to hold to certain religious principles... YET he is seemingly breaking those with impunity where Renarde is concerned (?)
And I don't mean this in a sarcastic or crude way... but is it also possible that Ares might be using anal sex as a technical "loophole" (pardon the pun) because it's "not REAL sex" (i.e. PIV intercourse) in order to cleanse his conscience in this matter? Plenty of religious people/virgins over the centuries have used similar "outs" such as handjobs, oral and anal sex to avoid labelling what they're doing as "sex".

I was definitely displeased that I was made to wait for sex. I hate waiting, and those forty days of engagement were a total killer for me. So yeah, I’m a bit envious of Renarde and how easy this has been for her.

As far as it being a loophole, there’s more to it. Renarde is the driving force with this. She wanted anal for multiple reasons. Obviously, there’s pregnancy. However, she dislikes vaginal penetration in general, and will only let me use one or maybe two fingers on her. She also is gender-fluid, so she feels that she is both male and female. For her, anal penetration relates more to the male side of her sexual energy. She’s also gotten to see how much I’ve enjoyed getting anal sex the last few months, so I’m sure that increased her curiosity.

I tried using the “loophole” idea with Ares while he was making me wait. He Would. Not. Do. It. Our faith views anal sex and oral sex the same way as PIV sex….only for after marriage. In fact, it is expected that a new wife gets anal sex on the wedding night. I had expected that her exploration would be confined to kissing and getting rubbed off. According to our beliefs (and Renarde is normally insistent on the rules) she could very well expect a wedding ring at this point and to be married quickly. I have little insight into her intentions at this point.

This also goes beyond the fact that she’s doing it…it’s the way she’s doing it. It just doesn’t seem like the simple exploration she said it was. There’s an unexpected degree of passion to it – lots of face-to-face time and lots of kissing. When Ares got home from work today, Renarde took him to the bedroom almost immediately. If she falls in love with him or whatever, I don't mind. I just like to know what's going on before it happens.

 

[MsEmotional]

There’s been some issues with her kids as well, so I think she uses my affection to “recharge” after being drained by that. e of chores and cuddled up to me. It’s rare for us to have that kind of one-on-one time away from everybody else. She is very insistent about the affection she wants, and she goes as far as taking my hands and placing them on her body when she wants more contact than she’s getting.

I’m confused — are we talking about Artemis or about Swift here? If it is Swift, how is it possible that her kids (plural?) are old enough to be having issues? I assume by kids you don’t mean babies, and by issues you mean stuff going on in their lives, not medical issues like colic?

I tried using the “loophole” idea with Ares while he was making me wait. He Would. Not. Do. It. Our faith views anal sex and oral sex the same way as PIV sex….only for after marriage. In fact, it is expected that a new wife gets anal sex on the wedding night.

Seriously? Exactly what religion is this again? I can’t think of any reason an institution would have for requiring anal sex of its members....

 

[majormerrick]

I’m confused — are we talking about Artemis or about Swift here? If it is Swift, how is it possible that her kids (plural?) are old enough to be having issues? I assume by kids you don’t mean babies, and by issues you mean stuff going on in their lives, not medical issues like colic?

Seriously? Exactly what religion is this again? I can’t think of any reason an institution would have for requiring anal sex of its members....

Yes, it is Swift's babies. I use the term "kids" as a catch-all for "human being younger than a teenager." They've had some of the minor medical issues that babies get, but nothing major. Swift stresses easily over her children, and is likely to be the "doting helicopter mother" in the extreme as they get older.

As for our faith, there's a difference between a religious requirement and more of a social "expectation." The sexual customs are more of the latter. It is odd if you deviate from the expectation.

 

[AlwaysGrowing]

Yes, it is Swift's babies. I use the term "kids" as a catch-all for "human being younger than a teenager." They've had some of the minor medical issues that babies get, but nothing major. Swift stresses easily over her children, and is likely to be the "doting helicopter mother" in the extreme as they get older.

As for our faith, there's a difference between a religious requirement and more of a social "expectation." The sexual customs are more of the latter. It is odd if you deviate from the expectation.

I've wondered for a while, reading your posts, and you still don't explain at all... What religion/faith is this that is shared amongst so many?

 

[Ravenscroft]

I can’t think of any reason an institution would have for requiring anal sex of its members....

Actually, only FEMALES, right? Yeh, I have to admit I'm kinda squeamed here.

(Remember: this is sex that is REQUIRED to be witnessed -- like inches away -- by multiple others.)

 

[Ravenscroft]

They've had some of the minor medical issues that babies get, but nothing major.

My guess:

The Colorado City/Hildale area has the world's highest incidence of fumarase deficiency, an extremely rare genetic condition.

Geneticists attribute this to the prevalence of cousin marriage between descendants of two of the town's founders, Joseph Smith Jessop and John Yeates Barlow.

It causes encephalopathy, severe intellectual disability, unusual facial features, brain malformation, and epileptic seizures.

 

[ref2018]

I'll just say what a lot of us are thinking right now:

If this is all true, and not one of the many fictional personas that regularly come through here and similar forums, then it is very sad to see you and all these other women being so brainwashed by this awful cult.

There, it has been said.

 

[MsEmotional]

As for our faith, there's a difference between a religious requirement and more of a social "expectation." The sexual customs are more of the latter. It is odd if you deviate from the expectation.

How would a social expectation for anal sex -- between people who have never have sex with each other at all prior to their wedding night and have no idea what brings each other pleasure -- have even originated?

Is this, as Ravenscroft mentioned, a facet of the fact that the consummation is witnessed? Like, folks see one guy giving a brand new wife anal and then think, "Oh! That looks like fun!" and just start doing it themselves? And then all of a sudden it becomes an expectation that they all do it?

And I am confused, how is it possible that a religion that has so many rules about what people can do together before marriage has no issues with the fact that your girlfriends (who are not married to Ares) share the same bed with him? I understand your previous explanation about your religion believing that sex between the wives is "harmless female bonding" -- but how does your religion allow a female partner to invite unmarried female partners into the bed with her husband without it being socially unacceptable?

It would be very helpful if you told us exactly what religion this is.

 

[lunabunny]

There is something "off" about this whole situation.

I went back over your old posts, MajorMerrick, and realised:

- You've only been in this marital situation/household for around seven months. And yet, SO much has happened during that short time! So many new lovers... sexual hook-ups... pregnancies... changing living arrangements. All happening under one roof and in one giant marital bed.

- And, along with your own marriage in December/January(?), conversion to an unnamed religion whose principles you stated that you DON'T believe in, only eight months ago. In fact, back then you described it as being akin to a "cult".

- In November last year, you claimed you'd be converting "in name only" in order to marry the guy you'd been in love with for fifteen years - Ares - who runs the "security division" of the religious group: a sort of quasi police force who operate in lieu of regular State-run law enforcement. Members are expected to call your group's "security" division ahead of the regular police if they're in danger or there is some sort of legal dispute. (SO many questions with this one, I don't even know where to start!)

- Swift is only 20 years old as we speak. She was orphaned at age 11 and during her early teens you were like an older sister/mother figure to her. Then at "barely eighteen" she married Ares (someone you've known for many years, so I'm guessing she met him through you or mutual friends/lovers). This sounds to me like she was already promised to, or "of interest" to Ares prior to her being of legal age, which in turn could be construed as some form of grooming, since she is so many years younger and didn't have parents to watch out for her well-being. (Was Swift "expected" to submit to anal sex on her wedding night, aged eighteen, in view of an audience, or with Ares alone?)

- In the two years since, Swift has already birthed two children who suffer from some medical issues which cause Swift enough stress that she feels the need for your physical comfort at these times. Even though you are not in a relationship with HER per se, you "submit" willingly when she places her hands on your body and wants you to touch her intimately.

- You claim you WANT to provide this kind of sexual pleasure and comfort to ALL members of your household, and that it's within the scope of your religious principles... yet only half a year ago, you claimed you did not believe in the religion to which you were converting.

- This supposedly "Christian" sect encourages and accepts polygamy, lesbianism, anal sex (sodomy), and multiple sexual partnerships outside of wedlock among "entwined" women... yet these same women are not allowed to have more than one male lover/husband. Meanwhile, the husbands have sexual access to women who are not their own wives/partners (i.e. Ares/Renarde's "exploratory" sexual activity, and his being able to witness you and your girlfriend's sexual activity due to the bed-sharing arrangement) yet male homosexual activity is not allowed. (How is any of this in keeping with the teachings of Christ?)

*********

There is something very troubling, even somewhat scary, about the details of your story, MajorMerrick.

What's more, the rapidity with which you've changed your tune regarding your own "independent", rebellious nature, as well as the "piling on" effect of an ever-expanding intimate circle, makes me fear you have fallen prey to a paternalistic, non-egalitarian doctrine which demands obedience and the sexual availability of its female members, at risk of being condemned, rejected or excommunicated by the male-dominated church.

You may have thought you were walking into this, eyes open and aware of your own individuality, out of a desire to wed the guy you'd been in love with for fifteen years and to achieve a form of "community" you felt was lacking in your family or origin... but what I see is a pretty rapid "absorption" into a lifestyle that benefits the male "head of the household" over any of its female members, whose needs for independence, privacy, sexual autonomy and a restful, stress-free life are not given much, if any, consideration.

As an adult, professional woman, accepting the boundaries and obligations of your current lifestyle/religion is YOUR choice to make.

However, I hope you will consider how doing so - without placing your OWN boundaries and insisting on your own rights to make decisions that benefit YOU - might affect you (and the other women and children involved) negatively in the longer-term.

 

[Ravenscroft]

My intention is not to be mean. Though I have been concerned about the OP all along, my bigger concern is that these forums NOT be seen (by anyone) as endorsing polygamy -- particularly this expression -- as somehow representative of polyamory.

With so much male control apparent, I have to conclude that the only reason internet access is being allowed at all is in hopes of recruiting more women.

In the present storyline, I see a deep disconnect indicated by the thread title. Namely, there is nothing "all at once" happening here. It's both constant & inevitable.

I've put the remainder of my comments on that other thread.

 

[MsEmotional]

There is something "off" about this whole situation.

*********

There is something very troubling, even somewhat scary, about the details of your story, MajorMerrick.

I would be more concerned except that I doubt that the situation that majormerrick has described is fully true. The details of this group are too fuzzy and odd to make any sense. This supposed group is big enough to have its own community infrastructure (doctors, law enforcement, stores), and yet small enough that we have never heard of it. She has said that it is *not* FDLS, and yet it seems based on FDLS. The cultural norms of this society (particularly as they relate to sex) are bizarre and seem to be accepted without question -- and yet majormerrick supposedly works outside the home with non-member colleagues and clearly has access to the Internet. How could a strict religious order go unquestioned by so many in the mainstream? And how could so many members of the group be free to come and go (majormerrick and Ares had been part of the group previously, if I recall, had become agnostic for a time, and then Ares and -- more recently -- majormerrick returned to this supposed faith) without there being a big expose on it at some time?

No, I think it is far more likely that the people in majormerrick's polycule are real (lending credibility and detail to her posts) but the religious practice is not. It is common to have a sexual fascination with such polygamist groups and I believe majormerrick chooses to write about her polycule through this lens. The society that she has created has all the trappings of modern independence (Internet, work outside the home, openness to exclusive lesbianism, platonic friendships and house-sharing between males and females) when it comes to the daily life and freedoms, and all the trappings of control (and yet, oddly, also a free-for-all?) when it comes to sex.

I believe that in addition to being fascinated with these groups, she might be writing about it here for the shock value, and to see how far our tolerance and "live and let live" values will persist in the face of extremism.

Just my two cents, based on all the evidence that is presented. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[ref2018]

Interesting theories. Keep 'em coming, folks.