Midnight Ramblings - STDs, communication

[Precious1]

Forgive an incoherent midnight ramble...

I'm feeling like I need to start relationship counseling to sort through my insecurities.

Background: I am a monogamish poly in an essentially monogamous relationship. My only intimate partner, Sunshine, is married and has two partners (me and his wife). My "wife-in-law" Becca has multiple partners. I have been the hinge in Vee relationships with mono men prior (essentially, reality would take too long to explain).

I feel like I need to put their relationship first before my own needs, and am insecure that if they ever break up that my guilt that I will have caused or escalated issues. I do not think I could survive that with my part of the relationship intact. Sunshine says they have a strong marriage. I believe he believes that. Becca is unwilling to talk to me, so I do not have opportunity to ask her about any of my concerns, hence feeling like I am pushing issues that might not otherwise come to a head.

I am STD-risk averse, having taught prevention courses and treated many who failed to follow them. Sunshine and I are fluid bonded. He has agreed to biannual testing. Becca still has not gone. Sunshine has not had relations with her since we fluid bonded. I believe he avoids it so he does not have to address with Becca his fluid bonding with me, the testing issue, the confrontation that will arise when he insists on condom use with her.

Ideally, I would like to see negative test papers on all my extended sexual partners, as far out as Becca's OSOs, or at least see her results regularly, and have my own knowledge that safer-sex practices are adhered to (better than just secondhand that he says she says she does) and that she understands what good safer-sex practices are. Steve didn't even have knowledge of dental dams for oral.

Sunshine and I are making plans for a commitment ceremony later next year, and we would like to eventually/ideally see a co-housing arrangement. Becca knows about our ceremony plans. Sunshine says she's not freaked about that, or my plans to take his name, but has no idea if she might even be open to co-housing.

He has agreed that if I ever hit a big lottery jackpot we can have a child together. I'm sure that never came up in conversation. Yeah, the odds are against it ever happening, but a peri-menopausal woman can dream, and buy an occasional ticket.

Enough rambling for one night... work in the morning, thus sleep beckons me.

~Precious

 

[faraday]

Wow. I would be very worried if I were in your shoes. You are making all kinds of plans (and taking actions, like fluid bonding) without talking to or even really thinking about Sunshine's wife. That seems like it's going to blow up.

I would be very upset if my partner decided to become fluid bonded with another and didn't talk with me about it. Not to mention making plans to move in.

How do you feel about this level of communication? Would you be okay with Sunshine treating you the way he is treating Becca? Do you want to live with him and her? It seems like a big commitment with someone you didn't feel the need to share big life decisions with.

You feel like you need to put their relationship first, but you decided to stop using protection and change the kind of sex they have within their marriage (i.e., he needs to start using condoms with her) without talking with her about it? She still doesn't know that they two of you made this choice for her? That doesn't sound like you putting their relationship first. Honestly, that doesn't sound like you were thinking about their relationship at all.

 

[SourGirl]

How do you feel about this level of communication? Would you be okay with Sunshine treating you the way he is treating his wife?

This.

You feel like you need to put their relationship first, but you decided to stop using protection and change the kind of sex they have within their marriage (i.e., he needs to start using condoms with her) without talking with her about it? She still doesn't know that they two of you made this choice for her? That doesn't sound like you putting their relationship first. Honestly, that doesn't sound like you were thinking about their relationship at all.

Agreed, although I think the condom issue was born out of self-preservation, and rightly so, if Becca won`t talk to her. However, in my world, fucking does not happen at all unless I know what page everyone else is on, and they know what page I am on.

I also remember when I thought fluid-bonding was a big deal. It isn`t. The stress of worrying about who does what with whom, and when, pretty much kills the libido, I find. The same kink/desire for fluid-bonding can be put onto condom-bonding. I am condom-bonded, and happier for it.

 

[redpepper]

You might want to look at some threads on "STDs," "STIs," "fluid bonding," using the search engine. It might be helpful and interesting to read what others have gone through.

 

[Precious1]

Thanks for the outside viewpoints. Much appreciated.

I was finally able to start a dialog with Becca, albeit through slow online messages rather than in person. Feeling better, or starting to. So far she says "Pretty much he will go for whatever you want," and she is content as long as he makes time for her, and his chores at their house do not go neglected.

So much more I want to clarify directly with her.

She knows about our level of commitment, and has voiced no concerns about our planning a hand-fasting next year.

Last fall I attempted to break up with Sunshine over open vs in the closet. I am open. They had been in in the closet with everyone since embracing poly about 4 years ago. It was a big concern of his, who might see us together and talk. Becca was the one to intervene and keep us together. Since then, they have come out to their adult children and select friends. I am comfortable with the couple groups of folks they would like to avoid confrontations with over their lifestyle choice and why they choose to do so.

As far as the fluid bonding goes, if she balks at condoms unless regularly tested negative, I am willing to go back to using them. Actually, our emotional connection is much more important to me than the physical. Sunshine and I elected to bond until this is clarified through her, as they have very little physical interaction, while he and I are very active, for the sexual health of myself and him, and for the financial sense it makes. He has ED issues, and before we bonded, did get pharmaceutical help to make condoms usable for us. Frankly, I could care less if Mr Happy functioned fully, as I am deeply satiated even without.

No, I wouldn't like it if he communicated with me as he does with her. He has learned not to hold back and sugarcoat with me. I prefer to address things before they become issues. He knows my feelings on their level of communication, and does not try to prevent me from having contact with her, or bar any issues from the table when I am able to get her to communicate. They have been married over two decades; established communication styles are difficult to change, and theirs may never be as open between them as I personally like in own primary relationships.

 

[dingedheart]

This situation sounds a little off to me.
Becca has several other partners and is unwilling to talk to you. Why? Some bad blood?
How did this all start for them?
How long have they been doing this?
How did you get involved?
Did you invite Becca and all of her other partners to your commitment ceremony?

 

[faraday]

She didn't get upset when you started talking about hand fasting, but have you mentioned the babies and the moving-in part?

To be honest, it sounds like you are using their bad communication as an excuse not to have good but difficult communication of your own. I think you know that she wouldn't be happy with this, that is why Steve is avoiding telling her about the condoms.

 

[Precious1]

Becca has several other partners and is unwilling to talk to you. Why? Some bad blood? How did this all start for them? How long have they been doing this? How did you get involved?

No bad blood. She is very, very shy. I am his first partner that they did know socially as a couple first. They started in poly after she had a long-term affair. When Sunshine overcame his feelings of hurt and betrayal, and realized the relationship actually did not detract from their marriage, he suggested poly. That was about four years ago.

How did I get involved? Sunshine and I had been in love many, many years ago, but due to fear, had never disclosed our feelings to each other. We both married and moved away. Now, decades later, we are both back in our hometown area. We located each other on Facebook, with a couple "hi" messages exchanged. About a year later, I had an open invitation on FB to join me at a flea market, and Steve asked his wife her thoughts on inviting me to dinner with him afterwards.

In all honesty, none of us thought it would lead to this. He knew I was married at the time, and I knew the same of him. We respect that. He learned I was in process of leaving my abusive spouse and lived apart, and he disclosed his poly and happily-married status. (While I had been in DADT poly before, I did not have the vocabulary to go with it.) Our relationship developed from there, as we discovered how our unrequited childhood love had not diminished.

He is currently my only SO; I am his only OSO. Neither of us are actively seeking other partners, but are open to that fact that it will most likely occur down the line.

Did you invite Becca and all of her other partners to your commitment ceremony?

We have not had the ceremony yet. Yes, everyone is invited. We are excited to ask her and my son to be our attendants. The exact date is not set, but we are planning for the fall of next year.

Have you mentioned the babies and the moving in part?

He has talked about buying a big house for all of us. As for babies, no. He is fixed. And in all honesty, if I ever did win the lottery, I would not go forward without Becca's full support. I have talked about us being grandparents for all our future grandchildren, and my mother being a great-grandma.

I think you know that she wouldn't be happy with this, that is why Steve is avoiding telling her about the condoms.

She may or may not be in agreement, which is why he knows I am willing to forgo fluid bonding, if not. As for his avoidance, I would tend to agree, and have actually called him on that several times. If he chickens out and has unprotected, untested sex with her, we will simply go back to protection ourselves, until it is discussed and decided one way or another.

 

[dingedheart]

She can't be too shy, if she's got several partners now, and did some prior cheating in their poly adventure.

Have you met all the other players in this?

I'd think they should have the same concerns.

So this was a response out of his circumstances. Why not go have some fun too? Was he reluctant at first?