Mono? Insecure? Something Else?

[london]

I think it's obvious that you're now incompatible. Instead of waiting until you hate each other and yourselves for not having your needs met, why not call it a day?

 

[Arabella]

Actually developing a relationship with another woman is probably the healthiest thing he could do, but only once he's in a good place.

Once he realizes choosing to live a poly lifestyle with you means the ability to be with another woman (should he meet one and fall in love naturally), I think he may be very happy and grateful to be with you.

Yes, this is how our story has gone, so far. After over a year of falling apart every time I went out with the boyfriend, he finally got a relationship of his own, as he wanted. But he wasn't really attracted to her. She was just available for him. Four months and two girlfriends later, he's now with a woman who loves him as much as he loves her and he's genuinely happy. (And the sexual chemistry/attraction is there.) We get to talk about how he handled things in the past and how we all want to handle them in the future.

He's really a much better person now, to me and to himself. But he did have to have a couple quick relationships to finally realize that he needed more than someone to "fill the void." Trial and error, but it worked out well.

 

[dingedheart]

I think it's obvious that you're now incompatible. Instead of waiting until you hate each other and yourselves for not having your needs met, why not call it a day?

I have to agree with the general sense of this comment. Has anyone played out the possible scenarios of what you want or what's being suggested?

Scenarios:

- You have a roommate relationship. You start spending more time with the bf. You start a sexual relationship with bf.

- Husband finds a gf, starts a sexual relationship.

- You force yourself to be the in-house sex worker to facilitate the other side of this trade (keeping hubby happy).

All these seem to have higher odds of going down the same negative path-- split/divorce. Even him finding a gf. The deck is stacked very heavily against him, but let's say he does. The door is pretty open to a cowgirl, or wider still, of him finding a more suitable life partner. Unless that's part of the soft let down and exit strategy.

It sounds to me like he is agreeing to hang on and not break up the family. Outside of that, why would he want to stay married to you? Do you have a good high-paying job? Are you a great housekeeper, etc.? Or is it the fear of being ripped apart in a divorce?

I might have asked this before. Sorry if I did. Is he a member and has he read this thread?

I know one way to get over things is to see and hear the hard truth. Sensing your wife might not be in the mood is one thing. Knowing she has been doing it out of obligation or pity is quite another. Also knowing if all obstacles were removed, it would be a completely different story.

Roles reversed, how would you react if he or the new bf told you that?

 

[willowstar]

I think it's obvious that you're now incompatible. Instead of waiting until you hate each other and yourselves for not having your needs met, why not call it a day?

We have both considered that, even before this relationship came up for us (me). The truth is, we have been together a long time, we do love each other, and we have three kids. Not so easy to just walk away from. Neither of us does major change well, although I have adapted better than him in this way. We are just not ready to give up.

This is how our story has gone, so far. After over a year of falling apart every time I went out with the boyfriend, he finally got a relationship of his own, as he wanted. But he wasn't really attracted to her, she was just available for him. Four months and two girlfriends later, he's now with a woman who loves him as much as he loves her and he's genuinely happy. (And the sexual chemistry/attraction is there.) We get to talk about how he handled things in the past and how we all want to handle them in the future.

He's really a much better person now, to me and to himself. But he did have to have a couple quick relationships to finally realize that he needed more than someone to "fill the void." Trial and error, but it worked out well.

I do hope we can get there, for his sake. I want this for him, to be happy, if it will make him happy. Part of it is that he has never been in a relationship with more than one person, ever. He does not know how it works, or how it feels. So for me to try and explain it just doesn't carry over right now.

Has anyone played out the possible scenarios of what you want or what's being suggested?

Scenarios:
You have a roommate relationship. You start spending more time with BF. You start a sexual relationship with BF... [Hubby] finds a gf, starts a sexual relationship... You force yourself to be the in-house sex worker to facilitate the other side of this trade (keeping hubby happy). All of these seem to have higher odds of going down the same negative path-- split/divorce. Even him finding a GF. The deck is stacked heavily against him, but let say he does. Door is pretty open to a cowgirl... finding a more suitable life partner. Unless that's part of the soft let down and exit strategy.

Sounds to me like he is agreeing to hang on and not break up the family. Outside of that, why would he want to stay married to you? Do you have a good high- paying job. Are you a great housekeeper, etc.? Or is it the fear of being ripped apart in a divorce?

Is he a member and has he read this thread?

I know one way to get over things is to see and hear the hard truth. Sensing your wife might not be in the mood is one thing. Knowing she been doing it out of obligation or pity is quite another.

How would you react if he or the new bf told you that?

I would feel shitty, granted. It is part of why I am doing my best to be flexible with him, and give him the chance to integrate the information. Not to make him feel bad, just to help him understand that he is sometimes asking me to do something I don't want to do. He experiences sadness and grief over the fact that I don't want to, not so much that I won't do it.

I had a shitty shitty week in terms of work. We saw a therapist the same day (was scheduled anyway) and we both liked her. Have another appt this week. Hoping to make some headway soon...

 

[Eternaldarkness]

I'm probably about to make myself very very unpopular on this forum, but I have to say that I disagree with most of what's been said here. I put myself in your husband's shoes, based on what you said, and asked myself 'How would I feel?'

As it turns out, it wasn't that hard. I have been in his position, and I recalled very painfully something I had thought I'd resolved. If I were him, I would have already begun the process of ending the relationship, not because of just the sex component, which is important, no matter how much others may say it isn't.

It's true that you shouldn't have to 'pacify' him. But not only do you not have to, you don't want to, and aren't willing to do it anyway out of love. That's three strikes right there. In relationships, we should sometimes do things we don't want to, to make a partner happy. That, too, is part of a healthy relationship.

I know others will disagree.

He feels superfluous in your life because he is. The connection, the foundation upon which your relationship existed is crumbling and he's scrambling to fix it before the whole thing comes down, because he loves you. The other guy is everything he is, and better. You said your bf did a lot of the same things your husband does. That hurts.

It seems like your personal limits are quite a bit more conservative than his actual desires, too. Counseling is good, as always, but I suspect (though certainly do not hope) that you may be well-served to be prepared for a change in the relationship dynamic. As many people have already suggested, maybe you just want a roommate to do stuff for you. If so, and he's cool with that, go for it. But get a divorce lawyer just in case.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I can't imagine why people get stuck in "either or" scenarios, when it's not either or.

I don't always want sex when one of my partners does.
Sometimes, because I don't want to, I don't do it.
Sometimes, even though I don't want to, I do it anyway, because I love them and it is fulfilling for me to be able to do things for them.

The problem is when anyone gets stuck in one or the other.

But it's a common scenario that sex is part of a romantic relationship. If any of my partners told me it was not going to happen, period, I would walk.
If they told me that they needed to halt sex for a period of time, that would be perfectly reasonable. I have done so, and I would respect their need to.

But if sex is off the table, period, I am not dating them. We could be coparents. We could be roommates. We could be friends. But if we aren't going to be lovers, I'm not going to be their... lover.

Something I have found very helpful when I am dealing with a temporary situation or emotion is to let my partners know that I need to back off for X amount of time, asking, "Can we revisit the topic on x date?"

If you need a break from sex because you had unhealthy boundaries, then set a timeframe for him, so he knows what to expect.

"I need to work on appropriate boundaries, because I was having sex with you for the wrong (unhealthy) reasons. After some consideration of the situation and what it is going to take for me to relearn these behaviors, I am thinking that 3 months will give me a good start. I need to table the topic of sex with anyone for 3 months, and then at that time start reinstating it into our lives in a more healthy manner. (Giving specific examples of what that means.)

Be sure to define what you mean by sex. Everyone has different understandings of what is or is not included.
Be sure to define set behaviors to be learned.
Set behaviors to start putting in place and behaviors to stop.

Teamwork...

 

[willowstar]

I can't imagine why people get stuck in "either or" scenarios -when it's not either or.

...

But it's a common scenario that sex is part of a romantic relationship and if any of my partners told me it was not going to happen period, I would walk.
If they told me that they needed to halt sex for a period of time-that would be perfectly reasonable. I have done so-and I would respect their need to.


Something I have found is very helpful when I am dealing with a temporary situation or emotion is to let my partners know-I need to back off for x amount of time.

If you need a break from sex because you had unhealthy boundaries, then set a timeframe for him so he knows what to expect.

"I need to work on appropriate boundaries. Because I was having sex with you for all of the wrong (unhealthy) reasons. After some consideration of the situation and what it is going to take for me to relearn these behaviors, I am thinking that 3 months will give me a good start. I need to table the topic of sex with anyone for 3 months and then at that time start reinstating it into our lives in a more healthy manner? (with specific examples of what that means)

Be sure to define what you mean by sex. Everyone has different understandings of what is or is not included.
Be sure to define set behaviors to be learned.
Set behaviors to start putting in place...

Thank you. Yes, my taking sex off the table was TEMPORARY. It was not, and never was, "I am done having sex with you." I needed some perspective, and to take a step back. I was angry about how things were happening, about his expectations for sexual contact. We could have communicated better about it.

For the record, we did have sex a week ago, because I wanted to. We will again, when I want to. If he asks, and I am open to it, it will happen. It is not a done deal.

True, I should have put a time limit on it, but I did not know what an appropriate time frame would be. Right now our arrangement is that he will not put pressure on me and we will just be open to what happens naturally. Which is how it should be anyway, in my opinion.

 

[willowstar]

It's true that you shouldn't have to 'pacify' him. But not only do you not have to, you don't want to, and aren't willing to do it anyway, out of love. That's three strikes right there. In relationships, we should sometimes do things we don't want to to make a partner happy. That, too, is part of a healthy relationship...

He feels superfluous in your life because he is. The connection, the foundation upon which your relationship existed is crumbling and he's scrambling to fix it before the whole thing comes down because he loves you. The other guy is everything he is, and better. You said your bf did a lot of the same things he does. That hurts.

It seems like your personal limits are quite a bit more conservative than his actual desires too. Counseling is good, as always, but I suspect that you may be well-served to be prepared for a change in the relationship dynamic... Maybe you just want a roommate to do stuff for you. If so, and he's cool with that, go for it. But get a divorce lawyer just in case.

Actually, I have been pacifying him, since the beginning of the year. Every day. I have been listening to him, cuddling him, talking with him at great length about his experiences, his feelings, and what he thinks he needs. I have held him while he cried, listened and loved him. If I didn't love him, and didn't want to make it work, I would have walked away long ago. The only thing was that the level of physical contact was too much for me. It was making me uncomfortable, and we needed to change that dynamic so I was not feeling used.

He is not superfluous, in any way! He has been a rock for me in many ways. I am a midwife today because of him, because of his support, his love, and his belief in me. I am completely grateful, and love him so very much for the sacrifices he has made in his life so that I can do this work. It is not easy for us, and he has been wonderful throughout all of that.

As far as my bf being "better," well, sure, there are things that he does better, and understands better. He is not insecure in the same way, but he has his own. He has a thicker skin, can handle more emotional content, and he already knows he can share me. He has been doing it since we were 13 years old.

But Hubby, TB, understands me spiritually. I am Wiccan. TB is Wicca-friendly. Bf knows about it, but still is learning about it. Bf is not as "spiritual" as TB is, and doesn't really "get me" on that level.

I do not want a roommate situation. I do want a husband and a marriage and all that entails. I want a sexual relationship that feels healthy to me, as well as meeting his needs. I am well aware that there may be a change in our relationship dynamic. I am prepared for either choice, and I am strong enough to walk either path. But, yes, HE needs to decide whether he can live with a poly partner. He has had 18 years to figure it out, and it's time for him to face the truth of who I am, and who he is, as well.

I hope that clarifies some of those points.

 

[dingedheart]

I would feel shitty, granted. It is part of why I am doing my best to be flexible with him, and give him the chance to integrate the information.

What exactly does flexible mean in this?

Doesn't "integrate" mean accept the new reality?

Early in the thread, you talked about the reasons you both want to stay together: responsibilities, family, etc. It wasn't til this last post you talked about love.

Have you discussed familial love verses passionate love, loving someone vs being in love?

You mentioned your kids. How old are they? What do they know? What do you plan to tell them?

I think you made a good decision to go to therapy. I wish you both luck in that process.

 

[willowstar]

What exactly does flexible mean in this? Doesn't "integrate" mean accept the new reality?

Yes, I suppose it does. He has always known I was poly. We have gone to poly weekends for years. I have met people online, and met them in person. Not much came of it, though. I have had some small, insignificant (one-night) experiences with women, having only pursued dating women in the past, because I always knew having a relationship with another man would be difficult for him. He is very threatened by it.

This relationship took me by surprise. But it is a "gamechanger" for me. I will not give it up. I cannot give it up. BF and I are supposed to be together. That is not even a question. TB is also clear on that point. He has never asked me to give him up, does not want me to. He just needs to figure out how to not fall apart...

My flexibility? I guess that means I continue to stay and try, to listen, to give TB time to work this out. I am not going out and just doing what I want (i.e., dating bf as much as I want, having a sexual relationship, making plans for the future for us to be together, etc.). However, I will also not walk away from someone who needs me just as much as TB does, and someone I need in my life. No, I will not choose between them, And I don't have to. TB can choose if he feels he needs to, though.

Early in the thread you talked about the reasons you both want to stay together: responsibilities, family, etc. It wasn't til this last post you talked about love.
Have you discussed familial love vs passionate love, loving someone vs being in love?

Yes, we have. I have tried to explain that (for me), my love for him is different, more comfortable, because we have been together for so long. We have history, years of living and loving together, children and shared experiences. My feelings for bf are more NRE right now, which is normal and understandable. This is hard for him to hear, because he wants me to feel the same way for him, he wants to have NRE with me again. I dont know how to make that happen, or if it can happen. I can only love how I love.

How old are they? What do they know... what do you plan to tell them?

Kids are 16, 6, and 2. All girls. The 2 yo is often with me when bf and I get together for lunch or hanging at the playground. She knows him well and is comfortable with him. But she is just 2. The others, they know nothing, except the 16 yo is bright and intuitive and probably knows more than she lets on. We have chosen to not talk with them yet for many reasons, including not wanting them to know how much Dad is struggling right now. I'm not sure he could sit through that conversation without his heart being all over his sleeve.

Our 6 yo has a big mouth If anything, I would probably just emphasize that bf is my best friend and we care about each other. I would always answer any questions the 16 yo has honestly. I believe in giving an honest answer when asked directly.

I think you made a good decision on going to therapy. I wish you both luck in that process.

Thank you. I believe we have too. I am hoping that having a neutral third party will help him work through the emotions he is feeling and get to the root of the matter, whatever that is for him. And that we can move forward in a positive and loving way for all.

 

[northhome]

BF and I are supposed to be together.

Sorry to be blunt, but who told you this? The Tarot? Divine Guidance? The Wicked Witch of the West? Or is it just a 'feeling'?

In my experience, this sort of blind belief in 'destiny' (or whatever you call it) can be a real show-stopper when it comes to negotiation and healthy communication. I just saw a 10-year poly relationship implode because of this very same dynamic.

 

[willowstar]

... Who told you this? The Tarot? Divine Guidance? The Wicked Witch of the West? Or is it just a 'feeling'?

In my experience, this sort of blind belief in 'destiny' (or whatever you call it) can be a real show-stopper when it comes to negotiation and healthy communication.

Well, since I am a Witch, and I do read Tarot, and I do believe in Divine Guidance, I could probably say yes to any of these suppositions. However, it is simply my own belief that bf and I probably should have pursued being together all those years ago, but we just didn't. I agree that it is probably a pretty subjective and illogical way of determining whether or not a relationship is viable or in my best interests, but this is how I operate. I don't really intend to stop now.

I also believe that my husband and I were "meant" to be together, as well as my first husband, who brought me to Wicca and polyamory, and all of the previous relationships before them. My personal belief system is that each person we meet is a teacher for us. Maybe it's destined, maybe it's random. But I don't doubt that it's for a reason.

 

[idealist]

I just saw a 10 year poly relationship implode because of this very same dynamic.

I would like to know more about that, if you are willing to share.

 

[northhome]

I would like to know more about that if you are willing to share.

The couple started off with a clear understanding that it was an open relationship. It morphed into them being primaries for each other, with lots of secondaries.

At some point one of them started to get 'guidance' about people they were supposed to have relationships with. Past lives, twin souls, soul mates, you name it. All fine and good until that meant having affairs with others (i.e., facilitating cheating).

When challenged the response was, 'It was just meant to be. All my actions are OK as long as they come from love.' 'Open to feedback' was no longer part of the equation, since decisions based on 'love' were not open for discussion.

The other one finally had enough of it.

I guess the lesson is, if you're going to live your life based on 'guidance,' make sure that all of your partners know this in advance and that they are okay with unilateral actions you may take based on dreams you had last night, etc. I'm not saying it's not a way to live, just that it can be pretty tough on everyone else.

 

[dingedheart]

Well, since I am a Witch, and I do read Tarot, and I do believe in Divine Guidance, I could probably say yes to any of these suppositions.

What the heck? You're wired into a higher power and you're asking us?

Can't you cast a spell on poor Derwood and make this better?

My flexibility? I guess that means I continue to stay and try, to listen, to give TB time to work this out. I am not going out and just doing what I want (dating BF as much as I want, having a sexual relationship, making plans for the future for us to be together, etc.). However, I will also not walk away from someone who needs me just as much as he does, and someone I need in my life.

One might see your flexibility as not wanting to do the dirty work. Have you talked to TB about all the things you're not doing but would like to: intentions, plans for the future? Knowing that might help him make up his mind on how to proceed.

No, I will not choose between them. And I don't have to. TB can choose if he feels he needs to, though.

With everything you written it sort of looks to me like you sort of have.

Are TB and bf reading this thread?

Why don't you think you have to? Because neither guy is forcing that, or something higher?

I have tried to explain that (for me), my love for him is different, more comfortable, because we have been together for so long. We have history, years of living and loving together, children and shared experiences.

I think it's good that you tried to explain this. In my own situation, my wife (probably having read somewhere) that verbal reassurance was important or helpful. It might be. It could be if both parties have the same meaning of love. So in my case, it was a little confusing at first. Then after I asked for clarification, I'd say it wasn't helpful, or something I wanted to hear, so I asked her to stop saying those things.

the 16 yo is bright and intuitive and probably knows more than she lets on.

If she's been kept in the dark on your past poly relationships, she might not take it well, you hurting her father, or the possible breaking-up of the family.

 

[willowstar]

What the heck? You're wired into a higher power and you're asking us?

Can't you cast a spell on poor Derwood and make this better?

I so wish I could!!! However, I don't do such things. I believe in this little thing called Free Will.

One might see your flexibility as not wanting to do the dirty work. Have you talked to your husband about all the things you're not doing but would like to: intentions, plans for the future? Knowing that might help him make up his mind on how to proceed.

What would be the dirty work here? I am open to hearing what you have to say, just not sure I understand. I am not leaving him to just "figure it out." I am certainly participating in conversations and talking about things. But I just realize that, ultimately, he does need to figure out what is happening for him and why he feels the way he does. I am willing to help him with that as much as I can. Restricting my contact or activity with bf does not make it better for him, and he has said so. His issues are really around our relationship.

With everything you written it sorta looks to me like you sort of have.

How so? I am poly. I have two men in my life. One of them is struggling, yes. Would it be better if I walked away from bf in favor of TB? Maybe in the short run. But that is what I have been doing for 17 years. And I would be choosing one over the other. I am choosing to stay, and do the work, and help us both through the process.

Are TB and BF reading this thread?

I don't think either one of them has. I will ask them both if they would like to.

Why don't you think you have to? Because neither guy is forcing that, or something higher?

I guess I feel like I don't have to choose because I am poly. And neither one of them is asking me to. No higher purpose there.

It might be... if both parties have the same meaning of love. So in my case it was a little confusing at first. Then after I asked for clarification I'd say it wasn't helpful, or something I wanted to hear, so I asked her to stop saying those things.

So true. I am not sure that me explaining my side of things is helping him very much. We have found that we often have different words for things, and this is one of the reasons why I have wanted counseling, to help us with the communication piece. We can each explain something that we feel is completely clear and obvious, and the other person just doesn't get it.

If she's been kept in the dark on your past poly relationships, she might not take it well you hurting her father or the possible breaking-up of the family.

I agree. I had wanted to tell her soon after everything happened in the beginning, just to set a precedent with her about being honest about relationships, about not lying about where you are, etc. I felt it was a good thing to have in place with a 16 yo. But bf was not ready for her to know (our kids are FB friends with each other, but not really "friends"), and then it became so challenging here at home that we decided to try and sort out what was happening before bringing her into the loop. She is very intelligent, and LGBT savvy, and open to having these types of discussions. But I want her dad to feel like he is on board for that.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[dingedheart]

You're wired into a higher power and asking us?

Can't you cast a spell on poor Derwood and make this better?

I so wish I could!!! However, I don't do such things. I believe in this little thing called Free Will.

Nice, a witch with a code of ethics.

Did TB or bf ever tell you the old joke: "OMG, my wife/gf is such a witch. No, seriously, she's really a Witch"?

One might see your flexibility as not wanting to do the dirty work. Have you talked to your husband about all the things you're not doing but would like to: intentions, plans for the future? Knowing that might help him make up his mind on how to proceed.

What would be the dirty work here? ... I am not leaving him to just "figure it out", I am certainly participating in conversations and talking about things. But I just realize that, ultimately, he does need to figure out what is happening for him and why he feels the way he does. I am willing to help him with that as much as I can. Restricting my contact or activity with bf does not make it better for him, and he has said so. His issues are really around our relationship.

Putting the marriage down. Realizing the shift in feeling, appreciative love, "longevity love" (if that makes sense), the obligatory or pity time and attention, pacification, as opposed to "being in love." Many many have said the same thing. "I love him/her but not in that way anymore. Life is too short for either of you to except less, IMO.

I am poly. I have two men in my life. One of them is struggling, yes. Would it be better if I walked away from bf in favor of TB? Maybe in the short run. But that is what I have been doing for 17 years. And I would be choosing one over the other. I am choosing to stay, and do the work, and help us both through the process.

The impression I got is you have a 30-yr history with the bf. You dated, were best friends since teenage. You have an unbelievable bond and connection, some might call "soul mates." I don't think you ever used that word, but that was the tone. On the other hand, your description and feeling for your husband are in stark contrast. He's emotionally weak, frequently in a puddle upon your return. Dates and sex were done out of obligation or to pacify the poor guy. Love wasn't talked about til late in the thread and as a marker of what you've done or had put up with.

An example: "But now we have kids and responsibilities to them, and we would really like to keep our family intact if we can."

Are your husband and bf reading this thread?

I dont think either one of them has. I will ask them both if they would like to.

What did you find out?

If she's been kept in the dark on your past poly relationships. she might not take it well you hurting her father or the possible breaking-up of the family.

I had wanted to tell her soon after everything happened in the beginning, just to set a precedent with her, about being honest about relationships, about not lying about where you are, etc. I felt it was a good thing to have in place with a 16 yo girl. But bf was not ready for her to know... and then it became so challenging here at home that we decided to try and sort out what was happening before bringing her into the loop. She is... open to having these types of discussions. But I want her dad to feel like he is on board for that.

You mean you think she open to these types of discussions, in a vacuum, talking about such things in general, or as it applies to her struggling hurting father, you and the new bf, and its effect on the marriage and family, and the bf's family as well?

 

[willowstar]

Putting the marriage down. Realizing the shift in feeling, appreciative love,"longevity love"... the obligatory or pity time an attention, pacification, as opposed to "being in love." ... "I love him/her, but not in that way anymore." Life's too short for either of you to accept less.

I don't believe either of us is ready for this. I do believe we can make things better, for both of us. Yes, things feel different for me. I always assumed this was a normal and natural progression in a long-term relationship. I know there are people who feel just as much in love with their spouse as the day they were married, but I think it is much more common for partners to fall into something more comfortable, companionate, and maybe less charged than when they first met. I wish I did feel that way, still. Truly. He is a wonderful man, and I do miss feeling that way, with him. But I can honestly say that I DO LOVE HIM. And I do tell him that every day.

You have a 30-yr history with the bf. You dated, were best friends since teenage, you have an unbelievable bond and connection some might call "soul mates." ... that was the tone.

Yes, bf and I do think of ourselves as "soulmates." We have talked about that together, and even with with TB, all three of us together. I think my husband is my soulmate too. I think we have many, not just one.

Bf and I were strongly connected when we were younger, but have also spent many years not in contact with each other, 15, I think. We were busy raising our kids and living separate lives. First real connection again was about 4 years ago at a mutual friend's wedding. We sat with them, and it was amazingly wonderful for me, as a poly. I was there with my husband, my bf (then just a former high school love), and the best man, who was my ex-bf too. Hubby knew all of this and was fine with it, knew I got a kick out of it. It was a lot of fun for me.

You mean you think she open to these types of discussions in general, or as it applies to her struggling father, you, and the new BF and its effect on the marriage and family...?

Yes, I think she could wrap her head around it as an abstract concept. Whether or not she could do so when it's her own parents? Dont know. I will probably broach this subject with the therapist this week, even if just to find out whether we should let her know we are in counseling. She babysits the younger ones so we can go. So far, we just tell her we have an appt out, together. Have not told her why. But I dont have a good sense of whether it is good to let her in on what's happening, or not.

Poly is hard. Wish it wasn't. But I am trying my best to do the right thing, which I am finding is not always obvious.

 

[dingedheart]

Putting the marriage DOWN. Realizing the shift in feeling ...appreciative love ..."longevity love" (if that makes sense) the obligatory or pity time an attention ....pacification. AS opposed to being in love. Many many have said the same thing " i love him/her but not in that way ANYMORE . Life too short for either of you to except less ...IMO.

I don't believe either of us is ready for this. I do believe we can make things better, for both of us. Yes, things feel different for me. I always assumed this was a normal and natural progression in a long term relationship. I know there are people who feel just as much in love with their spouse as the day they were married, but I think it is much more common for partners to fall into something more comfortable, companionate, and maybe less charged than when they first met. I wish I did feel that way, still. Truly. He is a wonderful man, and I do miss feeling that way, with him. But I can honestly say that I DO LOVE HIM. And I do tell him that every day.

Strangely, I get the not being ready part. There's the history, the kids, the upheaval, and nothing is horribly wrong within the marriage.

How can you make the demotion, displacement and intrusion better when it hasn't really got going full speed? Meaning, you have yet to have your desired relationship dynamic with your BF. You said you want it all-- unrestricted dates, sleepovers, split time, etc.

A few days ago, a friend said that in therapy she discovered that guilt was the motivating factor in trying to make her two relationships equal. In fact, she over-compensated in one relationship due to her feelings in the other, so it actually wasn't equal at all, thus upsetting things further.

Could guilt or a chunk of guilt be masked as this companionate love? Guilt from having these feelings, guilt of what it could do to the family, etc.?

Yhave a 30 yr history with the BF. You dated, were best friends since teenage, you have an unbelievable bond... soul mates.

Yes. We have talked about that together, and even with with my husband, all three of us together. I think my husband is my soulmate too. I think we have many, not just one.

We were strongly connected when we were younger, but have also spent many years not in contact with each other... We were busy raising our kids and living separate lives. First real connection again was about 4 years ago at a mutual friend's wedding. We sat with them, and it was amazingly wonderful for me, as a poly. I was there with my husband, my bf (then just a former high school love), and the best man was my ex-bf too. Hubby knew all of this and was fine with it... It was a lot of fun for me.

So I/we (other posters) got the tone and gist right. You recaptured the one that got away, a soul mate, and you have a long history (marriage) and commitments (kids), which constitutes a bond and love. Or love like close relative, something other than passion or "being in love."

When did you develop your theory on soul mates ?

You mean you think she's open to...talking about such things in general, or as it applies to her struggling hurting father. you and the new BF and its effect on the marriage and family, and the bf's family as well?

Yes, I think she could wrap her head around it as an abstract concept. Whether or not she could do so when it's her own parents? Don't know. I will probably broach this subject with the therapist this week, even if just to find out whether we should let her know we are in counseling. She babysits the younger ones so we can go. So far, we just tell her we have an appt out, together. Have not told her why. But I dont have a good sense of whether it is good to let her in on what's happening, or not.

I think that would be a very wise first step. But I don't see any way around that conversation.

Poly is hard. Wish it wasn't. But, I am trying my best to do the right thing, which I am finding is not always obvious...

And the right thing isn't always the most pleasant thing, and sometimes the hardest thing. Good luck.

 

[willowstar]

I get the not being ready part...

How can you make the demotion, displacement and intrusion better when it hasnt really got going full speed? Meaning, you have yet to have your desired relationship dynamic with your bf? You said you want it all...

I do want all that, sure. But in reality, bfcant give me those things right now anyway. He has a wife and kids himself, and obligations on his side that prevent those things from happening. But someday, yeah, that would be ideal.

The summer has been very challenging for us. With all the kids' schedules, we have only been able to really see each other once every other week, very different from the "school year" schedule, which is once or twice a week. But most of that time is family time with a toddler, not even adult time. For that, we rely on texting and an occasional date at night, maybe once a month, if we are lucky.

TB, on the other hand, still gets to see me every day, sleep with me every night, spend quality time (when we can carve that out in between work and kids, etc.). He still often feels like he doesn't get enough of me, even though proportionately, he gets way more. This is part of my fundamental issue, and we have disparity in how much is enough and how much is "too much."

A friend said that in therapy she discovered that guilt was the motivating factor in trying to make her two relationships equal. She over-compensated in one relationship due to her feelings in the other, so it actually wasn't equal...

Could guilt be masked as this companionate love?

Sure, I have thought of this. I have lots of guilt. Plenty to go around. That's why therapy should be beneficial.

I do think this was a motivating factor for taking a break from sexual activity with both guys. I needed to look at the situation as a whole. I was spending time with bf, building up all this sexual energy, and then not having an outlet for that. Bringing it home to TB was fun at first, but it started to feel icky, like I was giving him something that really belonged to bf and me. I did not like that. I am still trying to figure out whether that needs to be a boundary for me, not being sexual with TB after a date with bf. I want my sexual encounters to be genuine for each of them, and not just a way to expend energy, and not giving one person a "gift" that should have been given to someone else.

So we got the gist. You recaptured the one that got away, you have a long history (marriage) and commitments (kids)... something other than passion or "being in love "

When did you develop your theory on soul mates?

Yes, TB and bf and I have had many conversations discussing how bf is the "one that got away." I tend to downplay that, myself. While I do think about what life would have been like had I made different choices, if bf had actually told me how he felt when he had the chance, the truth us we didn't make those choices. I don't believe in second-guessing those kinds of things. I made the best choices I could at the time, with the information I had, and I have accomplished many wonderful things in my life. I can only go from here onward.

As far as my "theory" on soulmates, well I suppose it has evolved over time. Many years ago (over 10) I read a book by Caroline Myss, Sacred Contracts. It resonated with me in a way that I needed at the time, seeking connections with others who come into your life, and the fact that they are there for a reason. Not some "Divine, prescribed" reason, but just that each person was an opportunity to learn and grow. Some of these people would be more important than others, help me in greater ways, and I would grow by leaps and bounds around them. Others are wonderful companions, but may not have a significant impact on my life overall.

Much of the subject matter of her book was based on Jungian archetypes, making sense of the roles I was playing in different relationships, as well as the roles people were playing with me. If a person comes into my life, and impacts it in a significant way such that my life is never the same again, well, that person would be a "soul mate" to me. It may not fit other people's definitions, but it is a word or term that allows me to explain that person's significance in my life.

Thanks for continuing to ask questions for me to think about.