My breathing triggers her

[A2Poly]

It's been a year and a half, and my relationship with Mal is great. My relationship with Djinn however has become more and more of a struggle. More for her than me, but I'm definitely at the point where she triggers me too.

At Christmas there was a miscommunication/realisation of a long term misunderstanding about a future trip. Five years ago (so well before all this poly stuff started) Djinn and one of The Kids (f) had traveled to a theme park Billy and I were going to and we met there and spent some of our time together. Ever since then we've talked about the other Kid getting to go as soon as he's tall enough. Lately she's talked about me "taking them" on this trip. I kept correcting her, and saying that maybe Mal would want to take the other Kid, but apparently she never heard me. Because she brought it up again just before Christmas. This time I made an off the cuff "who says I'm taking you?" comment and she fell off a cliff.

She still hasn't spoken to me beyond saying that she feels like I destroyed years of anticipation, and that she now doesn't trust me. And 'of course' I want to take Mal because of the relationship that has changed between us. She got angry about the Christmas presents I got for the kids (all cleared with her before I bought them), and just generally had a hard time with my being there before Christmas (I left Christmas Eve).

She said she needed some distance because she was interpreting everything as "alternatively motivated" and my helping made her feel like I was being critical of her.

So... Here we are 4 months later, little/no contact, and it seems worse not better. I don't know if there is anything I can do, or say that will make this better, but it is so bad that any mention of me seems to trigger her, and even seeing a FB status of hers that I see triggers me.

I told Mal on the weekend that I would totally understand if they felt a need to pull back to being the 'core couple' and work out their stuff. But he said he didn't think that would fix anything. It would make 'some things better and other things worse'. And I know that thinking that way is either 'mono' or 'couple centric'... But I can't help thinking about it. And Mal says Djinn isn't sure there /is/ a core couple to pull back to.

I'm sorry this is so disjointed, I can't seem to get all my thoughts in order. I'll try to fill in any gaps if you have questions.

 

[breathemusic]

To make sure that I'm understanding this right.... is this all really about a trip to a theme park? Or is there some underlying issue? If this is just about who gets to go to the theme park, is it really that big of a deal if you just ALL go?

If you made a comment about her not going, were you serious, joking and it just got taken seriously and the whole thing has blown up? It seems like having little to no contact is only causing more distance between you, so maybe you guys just need to sit down and have a serious conversation. But that's assuming that you want to repair the friendship. Realistically, if you're not wanting that, is there any reason that you need to be friends? I know that ideally you probably want to be civil since you share a partner, but you don't have to be friends with your meta as long as you can treat each other cordially and respectfully when you do have to be in the same space.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am not sure I get it right with the timeline going back and forth. Here's my attempt at chronological order. Please correct me if I get it wrong, ok?

2011 somewhere before poly dating:

• Djinn and one of The Kids (f) had traveled to a theme park.
• Billy (your daughter?) and and you also went.
• You all met up at the theme park and hung out.

2011 ish til Xmas 2015

• The group talked about taking Other Kid to the theme park when he's tall enough.

XMAS 2015

• Djinn clears all xmas presents for kids before you buy them.
  
• You buy the kid presents.
  
• Djinn brings up this theme park trip. Like you will take them (Djinn and the Other Kid) as a foregone conclusion. A done deal, not just "dreaming trips."
  
• (What's "take them" MEAN? She wants you to pay for all of them? And that's why you don't want to go? Because everyone meeting up is one thing, you foot the whole bill is another?)
  
• You do not want to take them. You suggest Mal could take them. She's not hearing you because Djinn is caught up in theme park dream.

XMAS 2015 -- realization

• Djinn finally hears you that you do not want to do to theme park trip.
  
• Djinn is upset that her theme park trip dream will not happen as dreamed (You, our daughter, Djinn and her kids?)
  
• Djinn says she doesn't trust you... because she assumed you would automatically do things without actually checking for your consent?
  
• Djinn has a hard time with your visit over Christmas now that she's dealing with disappointment that her theme park dream won't happen exactly like she wants. This includes being mad about presents you got the kids that she already cleared.
  
• Djinn said she needed some distance (fair enough)

PRESENT DAY -- May 2015

• Little to no contact between you and Djinn.
  
• Any mention of you seems to trigger her. (If Djinn is not talking to you, who is telling you this? Mal? Can you ask Mal to STOP telling you Djinn stuff?)
  
• Even seeing a FB status of hers triggers me. (Have you changed your FB to "dial her down?" So you have to actively go to her page to see anything? Rather than it just popping up in your wall? Or have you unfriended her so you cannot see her stuff? Either way solves you seeing FB updates so you are not triggered.)

Sounds like she's still wanting to be huffy.

I think she's getting bent out of shape over this theme park trip bigger than it needs to be. Does this theme park trip represent something ELSE to her? Like "family togetherness" idea or "fair for each kid" idea or "Long time pals and their kids hang out" idea or some OTHER idea? And could that be met in a non-theme park trip way? It is on her to articulate what is going on with her, and what she would like help with in order to un-huff. But if she wants to stay huffy at this time? She wants to stay huffy. Her willingness to un-huff belongs to her. You can't change that for her.

All you can do is say that you see she's disappointed this theme park trip isn't happening like she envisioned. That you hope she feels better in time and that you will respect her need for space and let you know when her needs change. Then you could date Mal as a "separate V" rather than as a "hanging out together V" and set some new boundaries with Mal. So he's not oversharing Djinn stuff when he's with you.

Really? It sounds like Djinn needs to understand that she can dream all the trips she wants. But to make them happen in reality? She must obtain the consent of all potential trip goers. She did not ask for your consent.

And who knows if Kid 2 even wants to go to THAT theme park. Has Djinn asked for Kid 2's consent? Maybe Kid 2 wants to go to a whole other kind of trip and not be "copying" Kid 1's trip. Has she considered that the child might want a voice in the things that concern child? She cannot be the "director" like all of you are actors in her movie. You are all separate people -- each with their own willingness.

I told Mal on the weekend that I would totally understand if they felt a need to pull back to being the 'core couple' and work out their stuff.

Is that your way of doing a "soft break up?" Hoping Mal would agree and say he has to break up because they have to work on the core couple? So you are off the hook and not dealing with either of them any more? But without actually doing the breaking up yourself?

Because if you want to end it to be free of this drama, just tell him you want to end it. Straight up. No "soft-pedalling."

Galagirl

 

[A2Poly]

2011 ish til Xmas 2015

• The group talked about taking Other Kid to the theme park when he's tall enough.

XMAS 2015

• (What's "take them" MEAN? She wants you to pay for all of them? And that's why you don't want to go? Because everyone meeting up is one thing, you foot the whole bill is another?)
  
• You do not want to take them. You suggest Mal could take them. She's not hearing you because Djinn is caught up in theme park dream.

Yes, pretty much. I always said (from 2011 on) that I thought it would be fair if Mal got to take Kid2. She just never heard it I guess.

"Take them" to me does imply she wants me to pay, and I have paid for travel before, but I didn't pay for Kid1 to go, and don't want to be obligated to pay for Kid2. Especially with prices being more now than they were.

• Little to no contact between you and Djinn.
  
• Any mention of you seems to trigger her. (If Djinn is not talking to you, who is telling you this? Mal? Can you ask Mal to STOP telling you Djinn stuff?)
  
• Even seeing a FB status of hers triggers me. (Have you changed your FB to "dial her down?" So you have to actively go to her page to see anything? Rather than it just popping up in your wall? Or have you unfriended her so you cannot see her stuff? Either way solves you seeing FB updates so you are not triggered.)

Yes, Mal, I know I should, but I hate being blindsided by her, and I guess I think "forewarned is forearmed" but that is biting me on the butt right now... so maybe it should stop.

And I did this weekend stop following her FB, and restricted her on mine so she can only see public posts (which I don't do often).

Really? It sounds like Djinn needs to understand that she can dream all the trips she wants. But to make them happen in reality? She must obtain the consent of all potential trip goers. She did not ask for your consent.

Yes, this.

Is that your way of doing a "soft break up?"

I don't think so, when you say it, it doesn't feel right. I actually said something more like "mutual friends are saying it might be best to pull back to just you two, or to admit that co-parenting separately might be best". Which in the cold light of day, I probably shouldn't have said either :/ Ugh.

 

[GalaGirl]

"Take them" to me does imply she wants me to pay, and I have paid for travel before, but I didn't pay for Kid1 to go, and don't want to be obligated to pay for Kid2. Especially with prices being more now than they were.

There some communication stuff I am not clear on. How's this all land?

Djinn wants you to take you, Djinn, your daughter Billie and Other Kid to the theme park.

• Djinn wants you to pay for it all (You are not going like that)
• Djinn wants to split the bill. She deals with her bill and you deal with yours if you meet up. (Then would you be willing to go?)

• Djinn thinks "fair" is the (You and Djinn parent combo) taking Kid2 to a theme park. Because that is who took Kid1 to Djinn.
  
• You think Djinn took Kid1. You just met up there with your daughter. So it's fair to you for (Mal or Djinn or both to take Kid2). The parent(s) of Kid2 are taking kid2. Nothing to do with you going or not.
  
• What's Kid2 want? Anyone asking Kid2?

Thank you for clarifying that you do want to keep dating Mal. That was not a soft break up attempt.

I actually said something more like "mutual friends are saying it might be best to pull back to just you two, or to admit that co-parenting separately might be best". Which in the cold light of day, I probably shouldn't have said either :/ Ugh.

What ARE you trying to communicate there then?

"Mal -- stop telling me Djinn stuff."

Or

"Mal, are you needing a time out to deal with Mal+ Djinn things?"

Or

"Mal, this Kid2 trip is parent issues between you and Djinn. Stop dragging me into coparenting things that are not about my child. I like you kids fine, but they are not mine to parent."

Or... something else?

Galagirl

 

[A2Poly]

Billie wouldn't come (some her/me travel stuff, some she doesn't like Djinn).

I think Djinn thinks point one, and three. I think point 4.

And I did ask Kid2, he wants to go, but he's never been to a theme park, and has no idea. I go every few years, and adore it. Djinn has been once and found it overwhelming. (Which makes me more confused about why she is stuck on going).

Mal is one of those guys who puts himself last. I think I was trying to say both that I know he is in rough times, and that I don't want him protecting me at the cost of hurting him (and maybe Djinn) more than necessary.

But also that I think it's time to 'shit or get off the pot' to be crude. They keep telling me they've been unhappy for a decade, and are both miserable now. It hurts to see them hurting each other.

 

[GalaGirl]

I think Djinn thinks point one, and three. I think point 4.

Ah. Then it is still basically Djinn getting herself all huffy over her own assumptions. She can unhuff when she wants to I guess.

But also that I think it's time to 'shit or get off the pot' to be crude. They keep telling me they've been unhappy for a decade, and are both miserable now. It hurts to see them hurting each other.

I can see that. Maybe Djinn see that too, even if she doesn't want to "own" that idea yet and that's why so hell bent on this theme park thing. Trying recapture something from a time when things were "easier" maybe? Who knows. I guess only Djinn.

For you? She asked for space so just give it all the space she wants. And ask Mal to stop telling you Djinn things. Lower your stressors.

Ride it out and see how they deal with their (Mal + Djinn) layer while keeping you out of the cross fire.

Galagirl

 

[A2Poly]

Ride it out and see how they deal with their (Mal + Djinn) layer while keeping you out of the cross fire.

Galagirl

Good advice. As always. Thanks!

 

[kdt26417]

Hi A2Poly,

Sorry to hear about the troubles you've been having with Djinn. Did these troubles start when you and Mal first became an "item?" Maybe deep down Djinn doesn't want to share him. To her, the miscommunications are just like an excuse to get angry. I hope I'm wrong of course ...

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[A2Poly]

Maybe deep down Djinn doesn't want to share him. To her, the miscommunications are just like an excuse to get angry.

I hope not too. I know she is a very passive communicator, always looking for the message behind the words. Mal and I are much more direct communicators (I'm working on it and have been for years, he was raised that way). So I know sometimes she "sees" things behind the words that just aren't there.

 

[IndieSolo]

What do you mean, exactly, when you say she and you are "triggered?" I understand the word "triggering" to mean that something sort of flips a switch that brings on symptoms of trauma or PTSD. I know it's become a popular phrase, but it's also become overused and can be rather vague.

What happens, for you at least, when you hear about her or see her name/stuff on FB? Are you re-experiencing traumatic sensations and memories, or is it just that you feel irritated? Or angry? Depressed? Does mention of her cause you anxiety where you physically experience pressure on your chest or shortness of breath, things like that? I get the sense that you are basically frustrated and wish she would've moved on by now.

I think identifying specifically what your reactions are will help you know what to do. If she's simply an annoying irritation, that is different than if you are re-living past traumas because of her behavior.

 

[A2Poly]

What do you mean, exactly, when you say she and you are "triggered?"

...mention of her cause you anxiety where you physically experience pressure on your chest or shortness of breath, things like that?

Yes, things like that. My heart rate spikes and I almost go in to fight/flight. Like the other shoe is going to drop, but its not a shoe it's a boulder.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

Is the whole issue that you don't want to be responsible paying for stuff? Because unless you have a merged economy, or you earn a heck of a lot more than her, I assume she can pay for herself and "her" kids at the themepark.

My wild guess would be, she has only been to a themepark once but she kind of liked it even if it was overwealming and so in her mind, this is the cozy family thing to do and she want to go with the guy who introduced her to all of this, and who she is looking to create memories with; you. Perhaps she already has many meomries and traditions with her husband. Of course her reaction is blown wildly out of proportions, including being angry about stuff you agreeded to do, but it seems this trip is very symbolic to her and so she could not even imagine it to be otherwise than it happening. That does NOT however mean that the trip itself is important to her.

Is there anything else that you would consider doing with her (I still think she should pay her own way, especially when you are uncomfortable paying) that she may consider bonding and where kids can tag along? Right now, the theme park seems like the least likely way of getting the ambience she wants. Perhaps somethin smaller and less expensive would be better?

 

[A2Poly]

Is the whole issue that you don't want to be responsible paying for stuff? Because unless you have a merged economy, or you earn a heck of a lot more than her, I assume she can pay for herself and "her" kids at the themepark.

No, we don't share finances (beyond a credit card she has on my account), I do earn significantly more than they do (3/2), and right now she isn't earning at all, so it is all Mal's income. When she starts earning again it probably still won't be much as she has no desire to work full time.

But even so, assuming that I would pay for a trip is pretty... I feel like that is over the top for a metamour, or even a friend.

Is there anything else that you would consider doing with her (I still think she should pay her own way, especially when you are uncomfortable paying) that she may consider bonding and where kids can tag along? Right now, the theme park seems like the least likely way of getting the ambience she wants. Perhaps somethin smaller and less expensive would be better?

She won't even talk to me So I don't see how that would go.

 

[opalescent]

I've had problems with a partner's actions affecting my credit. Not on purpose and it wasn't extremely serious but it happened and lowered my credit rating for a while.

Please seriously consider how you can remove her from your credit. Why share credit with someone you don't like or trust? I know you were close at one time but now you are not and she's at least somewhat antagonistic towards you.

And if she is not talking to you, which is terribly hurtful, I know, why do you know she's freaking out about the theme park situation? Did Mal tell you? Or social media kind of thing?

Can you interact less with her? Remove yourself from her drama either entirely or as much as you can? This might mean that Mal shares less what's going on with her and him. Or you interact less with their children. Which would also be a bummer but might be alright in the short term.

 

[A2Poly]

She has a very low limit on my card, and has never even approached it. So I'm not worried about it.

It's not that I don't like her, I'm just really confused about her actions/behavior. I've not changed how I feel about her.