Need advice on the dreaded OPP (her idea).

I am not sure what this means. Do you mean you build things up in your head so big that they feel impossible to deal with?
Again, thank you for your time, effort and thoughtfulness. It means more than I can express.

When I talked about making a case I realized I was waiting for it to build to the point where it was big enough to be worth the risk to mention. You have helped me realize that taking the more direct approach is better. Even if it as simple as saying that I would like to talk about me being open so I can at least explore the options and have a conversation about what I would like.

Everything else has been very spot on. I am going to take a deeper dive into entanglement. It may be the heart of the issue. I also have work to do on being more direct. I think the simplicity of telling her that I wish to open a dialogue will benefit us both.

Cheers!
P.S. Sorry to all for the poor format. I will get it figured out.
 
Hello Mbalmr71,

When you say OPP (her idea), I take it to mean that your wife says she will not be "seeking any other penises," and that for that reason, you will not be allowed to "seek any other vaginas."

That's one way of looking at it. But I prefer to say, that she is not getting all of her sexual needs met within the marriage, and that therefore, you allow her to get her remaining needs met outside of the marriage. Well you, also, are not getting all of your sexual needs met within the marriage, and therefore, she should allow you to get your remaining needs met outside of the marriage. It is both fair and sensible.

Having a triad is fine, as long as all three of the people involved agree to it. But that is kind of a separate issue, and not as relevant at this time. Your wife is not ready for a triad at this time. The question, then, becomes, what will the two of you be doing in the meantime? whatever is fair and sensible, I would hope.

The reality of your situation is that you are straight, and your wife is bi. That difference in orientation should not mean that your wife gets more options than you. It's not like you should be penalized for being straight. This is why your wife's OPP idea doesn't hold water.

I hope the two of you can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Okay, here is a suggestion for how to reframe this for your wife:

Sexuality is about more than just whether someone is gay/bi/straight. It's also about a person's sex drive/libido, kinkiness, and a lot of other things in that vein (all the things that create compatibility between sex partners).

So, in that sense, both you and your wife have sexual needs the other can't meet. Your wife desires sex with women. You desire more frequent sex. Therefore, you both get to be poly! (But dating separately, seeking your own partners).

Your wife needs to do the work on herself to get herself comfortable with you dating other women. As her own therapist told her.

I think your wife is right in that your preference for MFF threesomes/triads is not realistic. It's hard to find someone who's attracted to both of you, compatible with both of you, has equal feelings for both of you, etc. And, how would a triad solve your desire for more frequent sex? Would the new woman have sex with your wife on the 3 days of the month that she's horny, but have sex with you on the other 25 days? So she would be bi but have a preference for sex with a man most of the time? Or...?

I just mean, your MFF preference sounds very complicated. Why not just date other women on your own?
Thank you! I enjoyed your perspective. Looking at this through different lenses has helped a ton. Your's made me chuckle at myself. I think the real answer is I have to back up and then do some more work before I really understand what I want. The first thing I have to do is tell her I want to open the dialogue so we can begin to talk about what I really want and so on.

You did help me realize that there is way more to it than jotting down a list of what I want or like. When I unboxed the preference for MFF interactions it made me realize that I was pitching that as a less daunting prospect for her. I was not considering that she may not even have interest in that dynamic anymore. I always shake my head when I see others try to tell their partner that it's only ok if I am there or participate. I certainly did not even consider the feelings or desires of the third. Kind of ashamed of myself on that one.

In the end I believe if I need do the work to be more direct while owning my feelings while giving her the space to do the same. I feel like that alone would be a win. Then we can see what happens.
 
Hello Mbalmr71,

When you say OPP (her idea), I take it to mean that your wife says she will not be "seeking any other penises," and that for that reason, you will not be allowed to "seek any other vaginas."

That's one way of looking at it. But I prefer to say, that she is not getting all of her sexual needs met within the marriage, and that therefore, you allow her to get her remaining needs met outside of the marriage. Well you, also, are not getting all of your sexual needs met within the marriage, and therefore, she should allow you to get your remaining needs met outside of the marriage. It is both fair and sensible.

Having a triad is fine, as long as all three of the people involved agree to it. But that is kind of a separate issue, and not as relevant at this time. Your wife is not ready for a triad at this time. The question, then, becomes, what will the two of you be doing in the meantime? whatever is fair and sensible, I would hope.

The reality of your situation is that you are straight, and your wife is bi. That difference in orientation should not mean that your wife gets more options than you. It's not like you should be penalized for being straight. This is why your wife's OPP idea doesn't hold water.

I hope the two of you can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Thank you for that! I may just put that on a note card in case I struggle coming straight to the point. :). Honestly, I don't think I am ready for a triad no matter how lovely the idea sounds. I am excited to see what happens.
 
Do I just keep the status quo and continue to ignore my own needs
For life in general, this is never, ever, ever, ever, ever the path to harmony and health.

Whether it's about a relationship or anything, ignoring our own needs is building on shaky ground. Trying to appease others by compromising important things for ourselves can only ever lead to conflict and unhappiness for all. Respecting ones own values and building on that is the only firm foundation there is. If you want others to respect what is important for you, you must begin by respecting what is important for you, yourself.
 
For life in general, this is never, ever, ever, ever, ever the path to harmony and health.

Whether it's about a relationship or anything, ignoring our own needs is building on shaky ground. Trying to appease others by compromising important things for ourselves can only ever lead to conflict and unhappiness for all. Respecting ones own values and building on that is the only firm foundation there is. If you want others to respect what is important for you, you must begin by respecting what is important for you, yourself.


Bingo!
 
Thank you for clarifying.

When I talked about making a case I realized I was waiting for it to build to the point where it was big enough to be worth the risk to mention. You have helped me realize that taking the more direct approach is better. Even if it as simple as saying that I would like to talk about me being open so I can at least explore the options and have a conversation about what I would like.

It's risky to talk to your wife about things?

How come? What do you need to feel more safe talking to her?

Are there old communication habits that you are bringing to the table when you talk to wife that just don't need to be there?

Everything else has been very spot on. I am going to take a deeper dive into entanglement. It may be the heart of the issue. I also have work to do on being more direct. I think the simplicity of telling her that I wish to open a dialogue will benefit us both.

I'm glad you are going to start speaking more plain to your spouse. You have been married 9 years. You said you are best friends and rock solid in your first post. It's not your first date ever with her, right?

Have the confidence to speak plain and be your authentic self here.

Otherwise... who have you been in this marriage for 9 years? When do you finally give yourself permission to be authentic you, and loved just as you are, warts and all?

Galagirl
 
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It's risky to talk to your wife about things?

How come? What do you need to feel more safe talking to her?

Are there old communication habits that you are bringing to the table when you talk to wife that just don't need to be there

Galagirl
I thought really hard about this and the issue is absolutely with me. After speaking to my therapist about it she helped me see how I have a fear of asking for things for myself that is rooted in my childhood. Without detailing too much about my relationship with my father, I will say that I developed a huge fear of ever asking him for anything. I was conditioned to either his response being very negative and hurtful or that the answer seemed to always be no. I remember many times that I would rather just not even ask. This has manifested in some pretty bad things for me. I have had issues with a lot of self denial. On the other end of the spectrum I have had the tendency to seek out what I want in secret.

Thinking through this issue has made me realize that what I have been doing is supporting her exploration while saying next to nothing about my own needs and desires while just hoping she gets around to me being open on her own. When I look at things that way I understand how unfair that is for her. I need to trust her with this. I always have said that the true definition of trust is when you feel safe sharing your most uncomfortable truths.

We are road tripping this weekend, just the two of us. While I am still really nervous about it, I want to tell her how I feel. I know I went on about a lot of things that I want but the truth is I really do not know. I do feel like I have needs that are not being met. I also understand that wanting to have experiences with others that include her also continues to put 100% of the responsibility for meeting my needs on her and that is not fair either. I would simply like to negotiate to a place where she is open to us both being open.

I will let you know what happens.
 
Thinking through this issue has made me realize that what I have been doing is supporting her exploration while saying next to nothing about my own needs and desires while just hoping she gets around to me being open on her own. When I look at things that way I understand how unfair that is for her. I need to trust her with this. I always have said that the true definition of trust is when you feel safe sharing your most uncomfortable truths.

Glad you are becoming more willing to let the stuff of the past with your dad stop influencing your stuff of today with your wife.


Glad you becoming more willing to just ask directly rather than being passive and hoping for her to "mind reader" you.

We are road tripping this weekend, just the two of us. While I am still really nervous about it, I want to tell her how I feel. I know I went on about a lot of things that I want but the truth is I really do not know. I do feel like I have needs that are not being met. I also understand that wanting to have experiences with others that include her also continues to put 100% of the responsibility for meeting my needs on her and that is not fair either. I would simply like to negotiate to a place where she is open to us both being open.

Could start to have more honest talks and keep it simple.

1) You would like to talk about open marriage for both of you, not just her being able to explore.

2) You are not entirely sure yet what sorts of open experiences you'd like.

3) You'd welcome exploring new open experiences with her, but if she's not into that, you understand.

Don't over complicate it by zooming too far down into details.

Galagirl
 
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