New to polyamory

[Qarzan]

Ok, so this is my first post, after my self-introduction post. I didn't think I'd be posting so soon. I'm seeking some advice and opinions about whether or not I'm handling this situation well.

I am a dancer, and I go dancing 3-4 times per week. It's a great way to meet people, and it definitely makes me social, and therefore happy. There's one woman, R, that I've been trying to get closer to. She's timid and shy, but has been reacting well to my advances. The thing is, I'm just not very practiced with being the hunter, and much prefer being the prey.

We carpooled to a dance on Saturday night, and surprisingly the dance instructor, H, started advancing on me very aggressively. I've always admired and respected her, and I couldn't resist at all. I don't think I even wanted to. We ended up kissing out on the dance floor. A few people saw, but R was in the lounge area and I don't think she saw.

R and I have been hanging out recently, but it hasn't escalated to dating yet, so I haven't told her that I'm considering polyamory.

I called H the following day, and we went out for dinner. It went really, really well; probably the best first date of my entire life. She's affectionate, positive, our philosophies and religious views are nearly identical. We went back to her place and hung out with her roommates. We all got along pretty well, but then again, I already knew most of them from before.

It got really late, and I didn't want to make the drive back home at 2am, so I stayed at H's place. We agreed to "keep our clothes on," and it actually helped relieve some of the anxiety and helped us relax more together. Topless make-out sessions ensued. We didn't get much sleep that night.

She mentioned that she'd been polyamorous before, in her previous marriage, but that she feels it was likely because she was no longer attracted to her husband. She now identifies as monogamous. She says that when things get serious, her radar "turns off." But se has 3 other men she's seeing right now. Surprisingly, I wasn't jealous or upset at all.

One other thing: H lives in NYC, while I live in the Bay Area of CA. She used to live here, which is how we initially met each other, but then she moved to NYC with her now ex-boyfriend. She comes here once a month for a little over a week to help run her venue. The other men she's seeing are in NYC.

The following evening, she was running a venue. She asked me to help her teach the class (my first time teaching!). We shared a few dances, but otherwise we stuck to the pre-discussed boundaries for when we were at events together, since she has her professional reputation to consider. (I brought up this topic during our date.)

Before I left the dance, we talked for a bit. I asked if it was ok if I continued to "hang out" with R. She said it was fine, and thanked me for asking. I told her that if it ever made her uncomfortable, that she should just let me know. I also said I would tell R that I was someone else as well, and if R asked, I would tell her H's name.

Now my plan is to continue seeing R and see where that leads. The thing is, I don't like the feeling that I'm making all the advances, all the time. This definitely is the case with R, while my encounter with H went so much more smoothly and passionately because both advanced towards each other.

I think the challenge for me would be to love R completely and fully, the way that she deserves, without feeling that she's just holding H's place while she's away.

My question is, do you think I'm handling the situation well so far? What advice would you have for someone new to polyamory?

 

[redpepper]

It seems to be going just fine so far. Everyone you date will be different, so why try and box them in? Why worry about who gets more and who gets less? It's just different. Different stages and different approaches for different people. I don't get why you have an issue with making the first moves. Why does that matter? It sounds good to me.

 

[Qarzan]

It seems to be going just fine so far. Everyone you date will be different, so why try and box them in? Why worry about who gets more and who gets less? It's just different. Different stages and different approaches for different people. I don't get why you have an issue with making the first moves. Why does that matter? It sounds good to me.

I guess I should say I don't mind making the first move, but don't like it when I have to make all the moves. I like it when there are alternating advances. This gives me confirmation and feedback at every step. Otherwise, I feel like I'm just being a creepy asshole, going somewhere I'm not invited. Does that make sense?

 

[NovemberRain]

It makes sense to me. It wouldn't work for me, so much, but it makes sense. If it's not something you prefer, it's not something you prefer.

It's been an issue for me, in my life, who makes advances and who doesn't. I was shocked to arrive in the world of other people and discover the ones with penises weren't much receptive to my openness (or 'advances').

I dated a boy in college who was a big pothead. He was always after me to try it, and I kept trying, but it did nothing for me. Finally, one day, I actually got high, and it made me horny as hell. He got all bent out of shape because I was being sexual with him. (Coincidentally, I spent the next 10 years living as a lesbian.)

I discovered my relationships are much more successful if I step back just a little, and let men make advances. I'm quite receptive, however. I wouldn't dream of turning down a date without offering an alternative.

'Would you like to go to dinner on Thursday?'
'Oh, not Thursday, but I'm available next Tuesday,' or whatever.

So, I'm not sure if you mean advances, or just confirmation that you're welcome, because I see those as completely different.

Maybe the difference is Western Swing and Tango? (I'm not much of a dancer, but I've spent my share of time.) My teacher of Western Swing said, 'It's the man's job to make the space and direct her and get outta the way,' whereas I see Tango as each partner having a part to do; it's not just about the leading.

 

[Qarzan]

It makes sense to me. It wouldn't work for me, so much, but it makes sense. If it's not something you prefer, it's not something you prefer.

It's been an issue for me, in my life, who makes advances and who doesn't. I was shocked to arrive in the world of other people and discover the ones with penises weren't much receptive to my openness (or 'advances').

I dated a boy in college who was a big pothead. He was always after me to try it, and I kept trying, but it did nothing for me. Finally, one day, I actually was high, and horny as hell. He got all bent out of shape because I was being sexual with him. (coincidentally, I spent the next 10 years living as a lesbian)

I discovered my relationships are much more successful if I step back, just a little, and let men make advances. I'm quite receptive, however. I wouldn't dream of turning down a date without offering an alternative. 'Would you like to go to dinner on Thursday?' 'Oh, not Thursday, but I'm available next Tuesday'...

So, I'm not sure if you mean advances, or just confirmation that you're welcome, because I see those as completely different.

Maybe the difference is Western Swing and Tango? (I'm not much of a dancer, but I've spent my share of time...) My teacher of western swing said, 'it's the man's job to make the space and direct her and get outta the way' whereas I see tango as each partner having a part to do, it's not just about the leading.

I suppose I meant more along the line of advances. R is good at giving confirmation that my advances are welcome, but doesn't make any advances herself. H has made nearly all the advances, and I feel like I was just bowled over (which I really like).

As an update to my situation, I sent H a text on Tuesday, and a Facebook message on Wednesday, both of which she replied to. Both messages I sent were upbeat and flirty. Then I felt really depressed last night because I really missed her. I didn't really want to tell her because I didn't want her to think I was desperate or needy. Then I thought, "What the hell, I should feel free to express myself how I want."

So I texted her this morning, "Hi H. I miss you [broken heart emoticon]. Can I call today?" She hasn't responded, and it's been about 8 hours. I assume she's busy, but the unresponsiveness is eating me up inside. She has been posting on Facebook, so I know she at least has time for that.

On the other hand, R has texted me. She is sick today, and I felt the need to take care of her, so I asked if she needed anything. She said she's fine and doesn't need anything. R might just be the right thing to keep my head straight while H is away.

Please let me know what you think of what I'm doing. Anything glaringly wrong that sticks out to you?

 

[Anneintherain]

Well, I would say that you are living too much in the comparison mindset. That usually doesn't end well. It is something I am more used to seeing as bluntly as you put it in your posts, in a monogamous person trying to choose who to date.

Considering H is only there once a month, and does not seem to be as eager for connection as you do, I think it does frankly come across that you might put up with R as a "placeholder" while your lovely assertive H isn't in town. Or I should say if I were R and came and read this, I'd not be interested in talking to you again.

In your first post you say:

I think the challenge for me is to love R completely and fully, the way that she deserves, without feeling that she's just holding H's place when she's away.

In the last post:

R might just be the right thing to keep my head straight while H is away.

You should date R if you want to date R, and H if you want to date H, not because you need your partners to balance out the "issues" you see in the other of availability, sexual aggressiveness, apparent interest/willingness to respond to your texts, or anything else in the other.

And I may be reading this wrong, but it seems you still haven't told R that you are poly, or that you are dating H. Hopefully, if not, you will. As you say, you aren't actually dating R yet. But on that note, it seems odd you are talking about "Loving R completely and fully" when... you know... you aren't dating yet!

 

[Qarzan]

... you are living too much in the comparison mindset. That usually doesn't end well. It is something I am more used to seeing, as bluntly as you put it in your posts, in a monogamous person trying to choose who to date.

Considering H is only there once a month, and does not seem to be as eager for connection as you do, I think it does frankly come across that you might put up with R as a "placeholder" while your lovely assertive H isn't in town. Or I should say if I were R and came and read this, I'd not be interested in talking to you again.

...

You should date R if you want to date R, and H if you want to date H, not because you need your partners to balance out the "issues" you see in the other of availability, sexual aggressiveness, apparent interest/willingness to respond to your texts, or anything else in the other. I find it

And I may be reading this wrong, but it seems you still haven't told R that you are poly, or that you are dating H. Hopefully if not you will, as you say you aren't actually dating R yet, but on that note, it seems odd you are talking about "Loving R completely and fully" when... you know... you aren't dating yet.

Thanks for pointing out the inconsistencies. That is what I need from this thread and forum.

I haven't actually started dating R, although we've hung out a few times. Each of our intents is quite clear, but it hasn't been formally expressed. I'm just trying to clear my head and make sure it starts correctly, because it's usually easier to prevent anything wrong from happening in the first place, than to fix a problem that has already happened.

 

[Anneintherain]

I do find it unusual that you are so focused on who is making "the moves." Is there anything that has been keeping you from actually asking R out for a date, or telling R you want to be asked out on a date?

I might be totally off base, but from here, one thing I thought was "Qarzan kinda likes R, but has gotten distracted by H, who is shinier (more assertive), so has used that as a reason to not bother to get things moving with R. Maybe Q doesn't like R as much as they think they do."

Anyway, it sounds like maybe both of you are procrastinating. If you and R know that you have intent to date, I'd get to that poly conversation and ask her out.

 

[Qarzan]

Anne,

Thanks for the advice. I have planned a dinner date with R for Sunday. I'm actually pretty happy about it.

As a reply to your post, I'd say I'm not exactly focused on who is making the moves, more like analyzing why things happened so quickly with H, and are going so slowly with R.

I've come up with a metaphor that will help explain how I feel towards H. She hasn't replied to my text at all, and I don't really blame her. We did discuss boundaries, in terms of when we were teaching together, or when she was running her venue, but we didn't discuss boundaries for when she leaves. It was partly what I was getting at when I brought up expectations, to which she replied, "I don't really know what I want." So it went undefined.

The metaphor is: my emotions aren't a light switch that can be turned on and off at will; they are a bonfire. Over the past weekend, H and I gathered the kindling on Thursday, lit the kindling on Saturday, and piled on more wood on Sunday. The fire was big and bright, and burned hot.

Then on Monday, we tried to hide and contain it. But, how do you hide a 12-foot flame? Somehow we managed, but I'm sure there were quite a few people who could tell there was a fire that we were trying to hide.

On Tuesday, she was gone, and I was left with this huge bonfire, burning bright and hot. I was expected to snuff it out, or at least contain it to a manageable size. But that's the thing: bonfires cannot be suddenly shrunk or snuffed (we'll assume this metaphor does not contain fire extinguishers); it must be allowed to slowly die down as it burns the last of the wood that was put on it.

Over the next few days, I was left to deal with the bonfire, as it created light and heat. I felt that there was really no one I could talk to about it, that wouldn't jeopardize H's reputation. So I tried to contain it on my own.

It felt like I was in a pressure cooker, and I needed some kind of release, some kind of outlet, for the heat from this fire I was trying to snuff. It manifested in the form of the texts and messages. I needed help in managing these feelings until they shrank to a more manageable size.

I find it unreasonable that H expect to come by, start a bonfire, and leave me by myself to deal with the aftermath. I need some kind of contact, especially right after a visit from her, to ease us off of that high. Then we can place the remaining embers into a container, slowly feed it bits of paper or twigs to keep it going, so that it can be re-lit into a bonfire at our will.

Does this metaphor make sense? Do you think it gives a clear idea of what I felt I was dealing with after H left?

 

[Anneintherain]

I find it unreasonable that H expect to come by, start a bonfire, and leave me by myself to deal with the aftermath. I need some kind of contact, especially right after a visit from her, to ease us off of that high. Then we can place the remaining embers into a container, slowly feed it bits of paper or twigs to keep it going, so that it can be re-lit into a bonfire at our will.

The bonfire is a great metaphor, and I think it really gets across what you are feeling. However I will also point out that above quote is what will get you in trouble. H is seeing other people, and she lives somewhere else. You are hoping she will be focused on tending your bonfire with you, as is common with monogamy. Maybe she won't want to be thinking about you too much when she's not there; some people find that frustrating. Maybe she just doesn't have the desire to focus on a partner when she isn't with them. It sounds like she doesn't know what you and she are going to become, and it's really too early to tell. You seem to have expectations of these two relationships at least, that are causing you stress because you're over-thinking why they are progressing the way they are.

I don't know how emotionally involved H is with the other people she sees. But it wouldn't be fair for her to neglect them over exciting new feelings she might have for you, even if she wanted to, would it? If you haven't read some of the threads on LDRs, you should search for that tag, as they carry so many problems of their own, especially when newly established.

And that quote above is quite poetic, and very romantic. You also want to keep in mind that to you what was a 12-foot flame might only be a 6-foot flame for her, and she's not sharing quite the intensity you feel, and so she is managing quite well. She might find it easy to come back into town and re-ignite flames without any tending in between at all. That's one of those things people in LDRs have to figure out. You finding it unreasonable for her to not start texting and emailing you because it's what you expect/hope for from her will not be to your benefit if she doesn't operate that way. Ask for what you want, but if H doesn't want to do it, you'll just have to accept it the way it is, and decide if it will work for you in a relationship.

 

[IndieSolo]

The metaphor is: my emotions aren't a light switch that can be turned on and off at will; they are a bonfire. Over the past weekend, H and I gathered the kindling on Thursday, lit the kindling on Saturday, and piled on more wood on Sunday. The fire was big and bright, and burned hot.

Then on Monday, we tried to hide and contain it. But how do you hide a 12-foot flame? Somehow we managed, but I'm sure there were quite a few people who could tell there was a fire that we were trying to hide.

On Tuesday, she was gone, and I was left with this huge bonfire, burning bright and hot. I was expected to snuff it out, or at least contain it to a manageable size.

Who says that when she's not in town you can't still have a big huge flame burning? It seems like you have a bit of tunnel vision with this relationship, and are forgetting that she has other people in her life, and you potentially do, as well. There can be a multitude of flames burning, all at the same time.

But leaving the metaphors behind, it sounds like H is being honest with you about the limitations she has surrounding how involved she can be. It isn't her responsibility to nurture your emotional health. That's up to you.

I hate to say this, but to me, you do come off as a little needy and clingy in your expectations of H. I think you need to wake up a bit, get your feet back on the ground, don't look for her to take care of you, start seeing the reality of the situation, and just enjoy it. If you start laying a heavy trip on her, likely it will not bode well for you. So, ease up on the expectations, or she will be gone. That's how I see it, anyway.

I'll tell you what I remind myself of when starting a new relationship: that I always want to be a source of lightness and refuge for my partner, someone with whom they can enjoy their time and experience pleasure. I feel that being with me should never be stressful or a downer in the early stages of a romance. I don't dismiss any negative feelings I have, I just don't burden any new partners with the crap in my head. I still communicate what needs to be said, but I work it out elsewhere beforehand to get clear on what, exactly, that is. I do this because I would rather take care of myself than be "high maintenance" for someone else.

Not only do I learn a lot about myself this way, but what I've found is that my lovers appreciate me as someone with whom they feel safe and free to be themselves. They then let themselves get close to me without my asking them to. Which means more to me than if they met any demands/wishes I had that they let me in, help me deal with it, etc. It's a slower process, and very challenging, because I am used to jumping all-in right away. However, if I can be patient, when we do reach a stage of deeper closeness and intimacy, then I feel the relationship has a better foundation for me to express the more difficult stuff, my insecurities, etc. But in the beginning, that needy shit's a killer. Unfortunately, I found that out the hard way. So, it has helped me enormously to take this tack.

 

[Qarzan]

Who says that when she's not in town you can't still have a big huge flame burning? It seems like you have a bit of tunnel vision with this relationship and are forgetting that she has other people in her life, and you potentially do as well. There can be a multitude of flames burning all at the same time. But leaving the metaphors behind, it sounds like H. is being honest with you about the limitations she has surrounding how involved she can be. It isn't her responsibility to nurture your emotional health, that's up to you.

I hate to say this, but to me, you do come off as a little needy and clingy in your expectations of H., and I think you need to wake up a bit, get your feet back on the ground, don't look for her to take care of you, and start seeing the reality of the situation and just enjoy it. If you start laying a heavy trip on her, likely it will not bode well for you, so ease up on the expectations or she will be gone. That's how I see it, anyway.

I'll tell you what I remind myself of when starting a new relationship: that I always want to be a source of lightness and refuge for my partner, someone with whom they can enjoy their time and experience pleasure. I feel that being with me should never be stressful or a downer in the early stages of a romance. I don't dismiss any negative feelings I have, I just don't burden any new partners with the crap in my head. I still communicate what needs to be said, but I work it out elsewhere beforehand to get clear on what, exactly, that is. I do this because I would rather take care of myself than be "high maintenance" for someone else.

Not only do I learn a lot about myself this way, but what I've found is that my lovers appreciate me as someone with whom they feel safe and free to be themselves. They then let themselves get close to me without my asking them to. Which means more to me than if they met any demands/wishes I had that they let me in, help me deal with it, etc. It's a slower process and very challenging because I am used to jumping all in right away. However, if I can be patient, when we do reach a stage of deeper closeness and intimacy, then, I feel the relationship has a better foundation for me to express the more difficult stuff, my insecurities, etc. -- but in the beginning, that needy shit's a killer. Unfortunately, I found that out the hard way. So, it has helped me enormously to take this tack.

Thanks for the advice, NYCindie. It definitely helps. I sent her this Facebook message last night:

"Hi H!

I apologize if my last text may have freaked you out a little. I told you that it's very difficult for me to hold back my feelings. I felt that I missed you, and wanted to call just to say "Hello," so I sent a text saying that I miss you, and asking if I could call.

Anyways, you might be busy. Get back to me when you have time. "

I also had lunch with one of my close friends who I've just recently learned is poly. I do think all of this stress comes from the fact that H and I didn't clearly define what we had, or what was going to happen. It would have been much easier for me to deal with if we had decided something, anything, instead of saying, "Let's take it as it comes," which basically gives me no information.

I don't blame H. Maybe she's with another boyfriend, maybe she's busy, maybe she lost her phone. I will wait until she contacts me, or until I see her again. I did realize, once I calmed down, that my reaction came from a place of neediness and desperation. I need to cap that s4!t.

 

[IndieSolo]

I do think all of this stress comes from the fact that H and I didn't clearly define what we had, or what was going to happen. It would have been much easier for me to deal with if we had decided something, anything, instead of saying "Let's take it as it comes" which basically gives me no information.

...I did realize, once I calmed down, that my reaction came from a place of neediness and desperation. I need to cap that s4!t.

By the way, you can write the word "shit" here. This site doesn't have any problems with cursing.

Wait a minute -- I just reread your original post.

You and H have kissed, had dinner, and one "topless make-out session," as well as having taught a class together. And you are stressed about where it will lead? Wishing that a decision could be made? And you want her to define this with you? Unless things transpired that you didn't share here, you seem to be blowing things way out of proportion. As far as I see it, it is very defined: you two are just starting to date.

I can say, honestly, you might be coming off as very pushy if this is your approach. I wouldn't have sent that apology email. The previous text might not have even been a big deal to her. You need some objectivity and to not be reading so much into this. There is no obligation on her part for any definitions or explanations or decisions simply because you had dinner together and she made out with you once. While, of course, it is very exciting, the two of you are hardly an "item" yet. Ease up on this, date R, and whomever else you are drawn to, and get some perspective on H, or it will backfire!

 

[Qarzan]

You're absolutely right, NYCindie. Thanks for putting things in perspective... yet again.

In terms of defining things, I wanted to ask her things like, if she prefers that I contact her more often, or less often, or if I should just wait for her to contact me... that sort of thing. Do you think this would come off as being pushy?

I would probably bring it up like, "I know you're really busy, and you're travelling a lot, and I definitely don't want to intrude on your time, so would you prefer that I contact you less often?"

 

[Sugarbooger]

It seems to be going just fine so far. Everyone you date will be different, so why try and box them in? Why worry about who gets more and who gets less? It's just different. Different stages and different approaches for different people. I don't get why you have an issue with making the first moves. What does it matter? Sounds good to me.

Redpepper is wise and needs to make an affirmations calendar. Just sayin.'

As I go along in this experience, I find it better on me if I just go with the flow. Every time I try to fight it or keep score, I get bummed out.

 

[IndieSolo]

In terms of defining things, I wanted to ask her things like, if she prefers that I contact her more often, or less often, or if I should just wait for her to contact me... that sort of thing. Do you think this would come off as being pushy?

Well, if it's something like, "Where do you see our relationship going?" or "How do we define what we have here?" before there really is a relationship, that seems a bit pushy, or maybe more needy and clingy than anything else, because it's like asking her to shape something out of the bare beginnings of a dating dynamic.

However, there is nothing needy in saying, "I like you," "I enjoy your company," or "I'm looking forward to seeing you again." Because those are direct statements about how you feel, not questions about what you're going to get out of being with her. Capisce?

I would probably bring it up like, "I know you're really busy, and you're travelling a lot, and I definitely don't want to intrude on your time, so would you prefer that I contact you less often?"

Oy. My reaction to what you wrote is that it's kinda wishy-washy, in my opinion, like you're standing there with hat in hand. What's wrong with just being direct: "How often can I call you?" (or text you). I would wait to say this until you see her again. And if she says something like, "I don't know, let's just play it by ear," then you say something like, "Okay, I just want to make sure I don't intrude on inopportune times" or whatever, which can open up a dialogue. But that's different than prefacing your ask with "I'm so sorry to even be bothering you with this question" kind of begging quality.

And if she still doesn't give you a definitive answer, just be loose about it. Send a text if you feel like making contact ("Hey, thinking of you, hope all is well..."), and leave it alone. Don't send a half-apologetic one the next day. If you don't hear from her for three or four days, or a week or two, there's your indication of how often she wants to or can be in touch. Also, I would just practice making direct statements (with everyone in your life) whenever you want something, if I were you.

This is all just my take on it, and my perspective on how I would approach things. Others here may feel you're doing just fine the way you've been handling things, but I just think it's better to not be too heavy-handed in the beginnings of a possible relationship.

 

[Qarzan]

So, what I'm struggling with, is, isn't it supposed to be healthy to express what you're feeling? I feel all bottled up. Why is it not ok for me to express this? Why is it not ok for me to tell her that I miss her? Or that I wish I could be with her?

My self-respect is telling me that I need to watch out for myself. In this way, if someone comes along and is not willing to accept me the way I am (i.e., expressive) then I need to move on.

 

[NovemberRain]

Isn't it supposed to be healthy to express what you're feeling? I feel all bottled up. Why is it not ok for me to express this? Why is it not ok for me to tell her that I miss her? Or that I wish I could be with her?

My self-respect is telling me that I need to watch out for myself. In this way, if someone comes along and is not willing to accept me the way I am (i.e., expressive) then I need to move on.

It's not that it's not okay. It's a matter of timing. It may not be okay yet. You do need to express your feelings, just not necessarily to her, because you have not established whether or not you have that kind of relationship.

If I've had a few dates with someone, regardless of their intensity, them telling me they were 'missing' me would be a bit much for me to hear.

Lately, I have been expressing to one of my men that I 'miss' him. He ignores it, which is fine. But what I say is 'I miss you' and then follow it with the chatty conversation customary to our emails. It's a direct statement, and I have no attachment to how he receives it.

If you want to say 'I miss you,' and for her to say she misses you too, it comes across differently.

Who says it's not okay to express yourself? Her? You? This forum? FWIW, I didn't hear anyone hear say 'Don't express yourself,' but more like, 'Think about what you're expressing,' and 'This is how we might hear it if you say it like that.'

And you're absolutely right to notice that it's a clue for you. Perhaps you need someone more available (not long distance?) and more emotionally available, who might say, 'Aw, it's nice to hear that you miss me.' I actually think that's a brilliant insight for yourself.

 

[IndieSolo]

There's a big difference between expressing how you feel, and asking for something in return, with a little bit of "Please like me as much as I like you" thrown in. One just lays it out there, assertively. The other is all wrapped up in expectation and wanting some sort of validation.

There's nothing wrong with expressing that you miss her or want to be with her. I did say to you:

...there is nothing needy in saying, "I like you," "I enjoy your company," or "I'm looking forward to seeing you again." Because those are direct statements about how you feel, not questions about what you're going to get out of being with her...

What's wrong with just being direct: "How often can I call you?"

I'm sorry if some of the other things I wrote in my previous posts confused or upset you. You can ignore my feedback and continue with how you've been approaching everything. My views are only my views. I was simply sharing my reaction if I put myself in her shoes: a few dates and a makeout session is not yet a serious relationship, in my eyes, and it seemed like you were building it up to be something more than it is, and much too soon. She told you, "Let's just see how it goes," and "I don't really know what I want," but you were all stressed out, wanted things more defined, needed to know where it's going. It kind of seemed impatient and like you were asking for what you wanted in a way that sounded a little like begging for her affection/attention. I could be wrong. But it is new for you and it seemed you were chomping at the bit a little too much for what seems to be the early stages of dating someone.

No one is saying not to express yourself, but to monitor how you do it and what you want to get out of saying it. I agree with NovemberRain in that sometimes it is best to get out the confused thoughts or longings to someone else, so that you don't knock over your love interest with what you're hoping for.

How do you feel you might handle it if she just wants to keep things casual and not too committed?

 

[Qarzan]

I wouldn't quite say it's so much that I want her to say "I miss you" in return. What bothers me most is that she said she would call me "early next week" (which is this week), and she hasn't. Now it's Thursday, and I've made last contact by asking her to call.

Part of me tells me just to chill out, kind of what NYCindie has advised, let her set a pace that she feels comfortable with. But then I feel what one of my friends told me, "What happens when you need something?" Seems the men in the beginnings of relationships are not allowed to express closeness.

If she wanted to keep things casual, that would be ok with me. It would tell me what to expect and how to deal with it, and I would be freaking out a whole lot less.

I will definitely start talking to friends more. This has been difficult, though, since she is a dance instructor and has her professional reputation to consider, so I've been very selective about who I tell. And also, many of those I've told, I haven't told them her name (because they already know who she is). This makes talking about it with friends difficult. I think this really adds to the pressure of not being able to express myself.

In addition, I will use these forums to ask advice and let off some pressure. Thanks for all your support!