Non-escalator relationships

I feel something is being overlooked here. Namely, that there's no consideration that 1234567 might be more a part of the problem set than the solution set.

Set out the basic pieces. Going with GalaGirl's names:
  • Apple is depressed, & living with Banana in the house of Banana's mom. Apple & Banana therefore have no actual control over their living situation, & possible financial problems as well.
  • Apple cannot go to 1234567's house because being around the children makes the depression worse.
  • Having less time with 1234567 is probably making Apple's depression worse.
  • Putting pressure on Apple (even unintentionally) to have more time together makes the depression worse.
  • When 1234567 shows up at Cherry's house, things are uncomfortable all around. This probably makes Apple's depression worse.
  • Feeling pressured to control the depression is probably making Apple's depression worse.
There's a LOT of melodrama here, which will prevent the situation being sorted out as though by reasonable adults.

The depression is the critical factor. Until it is fixed, any reasonable person would take steps to avoid aggravating it. Here, 1234567 ought to step away and give the situation time to heal.

Maybe Apple can get its act together & discover the ability to be around 1234567's kids. That one improvement solves most of the above list.

Maybe removing the pressures added by 1234567 will result in no change whatever (even escalation). Maybe Apple enjoys being a put-upon martyr, beaten down by malign circumstance.
 
The situation isn’t quite as dire as all that— the day I was at the house was still very pleasant and one of the best evenings Apple had had for a while. O just got snubbed. And as I told Apple, if Cherry needs the defense mechanism of pretending I’m invisible- she can have it; I just would prefer it doesn’t get picked up by Apple. I mentioned it more as an illustration of —
Things are difficult. There is social pressure to ignore me, making me invisible (it was so bad when we first started dating, that there was no conversation for a year— Meta would try - and practically get hands over
Tre Wars; meantime, mom was sortting it out with close relatives, so she obviously KNEW, and couldnonly deql with it if she didn’t talk about it. They were at my house individually and in pairs 3 nights a week, and several days.) Cherry is obviously conflicted- and a depressed person is subject to that pressure more easily.

When I have backed out of there to let people sort before, it ends up being miserable for Apple- and Banana, because Apple is miserable. I fill gaps that they don’t have, and do genuinely make life better, usually.

Nonetheless, the expectations of “what we had” continuing were making both of us miserable, so a few days back, I did formally declare I was backing away from expectations- and with it, there is a definate loss of what we have. For better or worse- we get to build up and redefine something that works for THIS stage of our life, with changes in both of us.
 
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GalaGirl said:
Glad it helps some.

Sometimes part of polyamory is dealing with Chronic Patient Land. It's not an esp glam part, but it is part of human relating. Sometimes people have conditions.

You sound like you are not just partner but partial caregiver too. And while caregivers help support the patient? Caregivers themselves need support too. Like... who is gonna support the supporters? It sounds like this area for you could use bolstering. If you and Apple are not able to do couple therapy right now because her individual therapy is an intense load at this time? You might consider if you want to go on your own for just you.

Overall you sound mostly glad to be there -- just maybe wearing thin on the caregiver front? Which is understandable.

I hope you feel a bit better for venting some here. It's ok to feel how you feel.

Galagirl
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Yeah, I’m definately overly thin. I’ve found before if I morph that into another relationship, it is not fair to the other relationship, so trying to balance solely with myself and Apple.

I may go back to therapy. I feel I have no time, but it might become essential. Stops the “poly emotional labor daisy chain”- or even friend daisy chain- of passing this off to another sector. Which I don’t want to do to one of my working relationships.
 
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Tinwen said:
You seem to have an extraordinarily good feel for the dynamics of the whole group, and this is a good thing.
I wonder though if you maybe tend to get lost in analyzing the whole group and seeing things from other people's perspectives, and then you loose track of your own perspective and your own boundaries. Like you're doing the same thing that you feel is complicated about apple - that she assumes worries on the side of her partner's mom and tries to appease them instead of doing her thing. You too are afraid to take action to achieve the arrangement you'd like to see.
I'm not saying 'go push apple now', certainly not, but maybe some focus on knowing the actions you want to take and just choosing the correct timing for them to have an effect would help against feeling stuck.
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I’ve just gotten out of a bit of a codependency rut with- everyone— so I definately have that tendency. And, I do think you’re right about me and my boundaries getting a bit lost here. It makes me feel happier to think of spending some time redefining my own wants and needs, so I think I will focus there’s for a while. Thank you for pointing that out :)
 
The depression is getting me. I've got classic depression fallout (reaction to a partner's depression) and didn't realize it. Damn.
 
1234567,

I'm sorry that you're experiencing a downturn too. And the situation sounds hard. Not without it's joys, obviously, but hard.

My partners struggle with depression. Willow has been chronically depressed the entire time I've known her (about 3-4 years). Oak has depression too although his seems less intense or chronic, at least as far as I know. It's hard. It's hard not to take personally, even through I know I'm not the cause, that it has nothing to do with me.

So I don't have much helpful thoughts. Just wanted to sympathize.
 
Thank you for the sympathy and support.

I think that I need to realize the depression is not a small thing. It is not a small thing in my partner's life- being nearly immobilizing at it's worst, being disabling at its best- and therefore not a small thing in mine- it's confusing and hard at the very least. And not easy to get support for- I'm closeted many places because of work, so I cannot spread it around, and I don't always want to be talking about this with my friends in the time I'm with them because I need focus on other joys. (I may be talking myself into therapy)

And... usually depression goes away with diligent treatment. This is unlikely to be that, given the 3 years of good treatment it has had. It probably WILL take a turn for the better on the right meds, and there are med changes in the offing, but it will take a while to find.

I really love this woman. I really hate the depression.

And then there's the dating question...

I am so torn about what to do about this- even to the point of "do I reach out for another relationship, knowing that whoever takes me on also takes on the burden of the affects of depression." It takes balancing, at the very least, as I'm drained in some areas, and not a fresh slate. And the passing on of emotional labor from one relationship to the other is not something I feel fair.

And on the other- it tends to be a lot easier on both me and my current partner if I've got someone else investing in me too. And me NOT having other partners is sort of a recipe for unhappiness for us both. (The depression exxaggerates the strain of the non-nesting aspects. The non-nesting aspects exxaggerates the distance from depression. It's easier if I can happily invest in other people in the times space is needed- I don't feel the absence so much. I'm kind of doing that with friends and family- but I miss romantic companionship)

Do I just also date people with depressed non-nesting partners and have kids so we can at least be balanced? (tongue in cheek, but it does sound like heaven)

Or is there a way to find balance with my relationship despite the depression?

This isn't an immediate need- I'm REALLY wary about dating again. I'm about two months through the break up of a "I dig you, I really love you, but I really can't invest in you heavily even though I thought (or led you to believe) I could" dating experience, which seems to repeat with different people annually with reasons generally divided between incompatibility and incompatibility of their other partners that come up after me to be poly- and I'm not ready to be that vulnerable.

I have to say, this depressive episode would be better for both of us if I were undergoing NRE! But I'm not sure it would be easy on my NRE partner.
 
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Sometimes, asking the right questions unlocks a lot.

I think the correct question for the whole balance thing may be not "is a balance possible"- but how is a balance possible?

The last big non- Apple relationship I had (Date), I was so protective of privacy, that I accidentally led my girlfriend to think that there was one big happy family dynamic- and despite me stating otherwise, indirectly, she came to the conclusion there would be no place for her in things like Thanksgivings and Christmas. (and to the contrary, spending time with me at either was something Apple had not done yet at my place because of comfort, though I popped into her folks with her and/or Banana from time to time, with or without kids.) Yet, behind the scenes, I was doing the work to let her Date be included in my family, so they asked, "Is XXXX coming to Thanksgiving?" right along with Apple. And then found out Date had preemptively made plans because she felt there was no way there would be space for her (and, also, Date's (platonic) friend melted down at the thought of Thanksgiving without her help.)

And there is a strong bond and a strong love between Apple and I-- but I think it's easier on all if that is NOT the only love. Or even the predominant "nesting" type love I have- given I'm not that for her, and she would do better if there was space to come and go with the depression and not living here, and both off us being protective of what we lay on the kids..

I think careful disclosure of this all as I date might be a very good thing, and maybe come up with some satisfying solutions for all. And I'm starting to feel confident I can do that without minimizing the bond I have with Apple or giving someone new the wrong idea.
 
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When I have backed out of there to let people sort before, it ends up being miserable for Apple- and Banana, because Apple is miserable. I fill gaps that they don’t have, and do genuinely make life better, usually.
Click to expand...

Is that your main purpose here? To be the gap filler? Who fills your gaps then?

Nonetheless, the expectations of “what we had” continuing were making both of us miserable, so a few days back, I did formally declare I was backing away from expectations- and with it, there is a definate loss of what we have. For better or worse- we get to build up and redefine something that works for THIS stage of our life, with changes in both of us.
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That is true. If you stop putting energy in there trying to keep things afloat and Apple stops doing same? It will go to the level it wants to be at now. Maybe that's enough for both of you to keep going with it in a new form. Or it is enough to more clearly show that it's best letting go.

Galagirl
 
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