Non transparency on Poly couple

Marcus

Well-known member
People, particularly men, take little by little.

The clear anti-male chip on your shoulder aside, yes, setting and standing by healthy boundaries is the way to solve this issue.

Setting and standing by healthy boundaries is difficult for most of us, for a myriad of reasons, but it's still a central pillar of having healthy associations. Having an excuse for being unhealthy and making counter productive choices doesn't change the fact that the choices are counter productive.
 

Kjl3694

New member
I think this is all bullshit. My husband has no problem meeting partners on okcupid. He is upfront about who he is, what our relationship is like etc. He’s not a model, I’d say a solid 7, is closer to 50 than 30, has limited funds and can never host or even sleepover. It’s not poly makiNg it difficult for you to meet women.
 

Inaniel

Well-known member
While I think that the only real solution is to have firm boundaries (and we know how people feel about women with boundaries), it's equally easy to just accept the social obligation of keeping the place you regularly stay clean and tidy.

Men fall into the social obligation trap too…. Fighting social norms is something we all deal with. Like the universal expectation for the man to pay for the date or take on a provider role is something I deal with when dating.

For every woman complaining about “men” being slobs or only looking for easy sex; there is a man complaining about “women” being gold diggers or only looking for a free meal…

In my opinion It’s just poisonous jargon that inhibits interpersonal relationships. And is not particularly useful to anyone.
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
The clear anti-male chip on your shoulder aside, yes, setting and standing by healthy boundaries is the way to solve this issue.

Setting and standing by healthy boundaries is difficult for most of us, for a myriad of reasons, but it's still a central pillar of having healthy associations. Having an excuse for being unhealthy and making counter productive choices doesn't change the fact that the choices are counter productive.


It's not a chip, Marcus. If you look at research around heterosexual relationships, you'll see that women do much of the emotional and physical labor in relationships. More than they feel is fair. And no, it isn't just a case of refusing to. Germaine Greer studied male vs female college students rooming together and the guys basically said they don't do chores because they know if they leave them long enough, the women will eventually do it.


You may be fairly independent as a male, truth is, most of your peers aren't like you. And tbh, we have no idea what women who have lived with you would say. Right now, it sounds like you'd be the guy who says "it's up to me when I clean our shared bathroom which I've made filthy, don't like it? do it yourself!"

As a big white man, you can deny that power dynamics between social groups dictate how they interact with each other and create an element of coercion in interactions, jut that would be because you're the person who holds the most social power in those situations and therefore you're totally oblivious to it as it does nothing but serve you.

You need to remember that women get beat up by men for "setting healthy boundaries". We get threatened and attacked by men for declining their advances. Those aren't myths whatever 4chan tells you.
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
Men fall into the social obligation trap too…. Fighting social norms is something we all deal with. Like the universal expectation for the man to pay for the date or take on a provider role is something I deal with when dating.

For every woman complaining about “men” being slobs or only looking for easy sex; there is a man complaining about “women” being gold diggers or only looking for a free meal…

In my opinion It’s just poisonous jargon that inhibits interpersonal relationships. And is not particularly useful to anyone.

I think it's very useful for men to know that even in happy relationships, women feel they do most of the labor and research looking at the "work" each person does proves that time and time again.

Sure social obligation goes both ways, but we started this by talking about het poly married guys and why people don't want to date them.

If men just understood that they cannot stay at their girlfriends (or anyones) regularly and not clean up after themselves, if they just understood that it is their responsibility, and they bowed to the social obligation, then it wouldn't be a thing. But they don't. Instead they try and dispute the reality and gain from their position of power.

And no it's not all men, certainly, but the ones who have done that bit of brainwork stand out immediately from those who have not.

I know that any man I've dated that is generally aware of how gendered social dynamics play out has been a superior partner to those who deny the concept of privilege and power. Men who reject it outright? Usually been somewhere between offensive and dangerous.
 

Inaniel

Well-known member
I think it's very useful for men to know that even in happy relationships, women feel they do most of the labor and research looking at the "work" each person does proves that time and time again.

Sure social obligation goes both ways, but we started this by talking about het poly married guys and why people don't want to date them.

If men just understood that they cannot stay at their girlfriends (or anyones) regularly and not clean up after themselves, if they just understood that it is their responsibility, and they bowed to the social obligation, then it wouldn't be a thing. But they don't. Instead they try and dispute the reality and gain from their position of power.

And no it's not all men, certainly, but the ones who have done that bit of brainwork stand out immediately from those who have not.

I know that any man I've dated that is generally aware of how gendered social dynamics play out has been a superior partner to those who deny the concept of privilege and power. Men who reject it outright? Usually been somewhere between offensive and dangerous.

I think it is a useful discussion in a relationship as it relates to the unique dynamic…

I also think broad generalizations about gender directed at individual people can be hurtful in the same way it can be when race and sexuality are used in the same way… That is a tricky thing to navigate when you are lumping groups of people together in discussion.

But you played the race card too, so I guess that’s just the tone of this conversion…. I am not white, for the record. Since that would appear to be relevant, sadly…

Circling back to the topic. I am a het poly dude and women want to date me. Are you saying my success is based on my ability to subliminally communicate that I tidy up after myself?

I guess the idea of a woman thinking “Oh, he’s poly so he must not clean up after himself”.. is outside of my personal experiences, though not anymore because clearly that is what YOU think… Regardless I remain respectfully skeptical about it being a principal roadblock in dating as you have presented it.

It would be tested easily enough. The OP needs to include a photo of himself washing dishes on his profile. Problem solved…

Now that I am thinking about it, the photo of myself chopping vegetables did get a lot of compliments… ;)
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I also think broad generalizations about gender directed at individual people can be hurtful in the same way it can be when race and sexuality are used in the same way

The only people who seem to complain are those who are highlighted as privileged over other demographics. For example, the same guy who cries about highlighting white men as problematic in whatever way, is keen to point out white men are at high risk of suicide. They love statistics then.
Are you saying my success is based on my ability to subliminally

Good communication skills are certainly something women look for. General domestication too.
I guess the idea of a woman thinking “Oh, he’s poly so he must not clean up after himself”.. is

No, I think the thinking is "he's a man, so I'm likely to do most of the labor AND I also don't get the perks of primary or exclusive access to his companionship, so, he needs to be awesome for me to date him long term".
The OP needs to include a photo of himself washing dishes on his profile. Problem solved…
Many women have said seeing men do chores is highly attractive. I've seen themed photo challenges of men showing themselves do housework for this reason.
 

Hanky

Member
No, I think the thinking is "he's a man, so I'm likely to do most of the labor AND I also don't get the perks of primary or exclusive access to his companionship, so, he needs to be awesome for me to date him long term".

A wise pickup artist once said that to date two women you need to be twice as desirable as the average man. If you only spend half as much time with her it must be twice as valuable to her than an average man's full attention. The size of a harem will correlate to the value of the man.

I have a harem of three women and even though my poly is a detractor I provide a high quality lifestyle and privileged experiences because of my career so my value is worth the sacrifice of monogamy.

On the fresh and fit podcast a woman was saying that her man must be monogamous but if he makes a million per month it's okay if he steps out. Women make-up rules that will be enforced upon average men but women will break those same rules for exceptional men. That's the point SEASON is making. Be better then the average man and women will come.
 

Eponine

Active member
A wise pickup artist once said that to date two women you need to be twice as desirable as the average man. If you only spend half as much time with her it must be twice as valuable to her than an average man's full attention. The size of a harem will correlate to the value of the man.

I have a harem of three women and even though my poly is a detractor I provide a high quality lifestyle and privileged experiences because of my career so my value is worth the sacrifice of monogamy.
That may be true if you're trying to date multiple monogamous people, but it's completely different from the poly mindset. I don't "sacrifice monogamy" to be poly; I WANT to be poly. And most poly people probably don't want to date monogamous people who feel like they are making a sacrifice. I also don't mind less time with a partner, since I can only offer less time myself too. Finally, everyone brings unique values to a relationship, so they don't need to be "twice as valuable as the average man" (they could even be less desirable than average - by the conventional standard anyway - because I'm not having a full-on live-in relationship with everyone).
 
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ref2018

Maid of All Work
Staff member
That may be true if you're trying to date multiple monogamous people, but it's completely different from the poly mindset. I don't "sacrifice monogamy" to be poly; I WANT to be poly. And most poly people probably don't want to date monogamous people who feel like they are making a sacrifice. I also don't mind less time with a partner, since I can only offer less time myself too. Finally, everyone brings unique values to a relationship, so they don't need to be "twice as valuable as the average man" (they could even be less desirable than average - by the conventional standard anyway - because I'm not having a full-on live-in relationship with everyone).
There is no need to feed the troll.
 

Emmjay

Member
I have to say this is an awesome thread! I can see myself in both genders represented, and only now am I learning the importance of setting boundaries for myself. Just now! It wasn't something that Mum and Dad passed on and I could never understand why I wasn't having my needs met. Then came Poly and an explosion of self-awareness. Really good information here, thank you.
 

Hanky

Member
That may be true if you're trying to date multiple monogamous people, but it's completely different from the poly mindset. I don't "sacrifice monogamy" to be poly; I WANT to be poly. And most poly people probably don't want to date monogamous people who feel like they are making a sacrifice. I also don't mind less time with a partner, since I can only offer less time myself too. Finally, everyone brings unique values to a relationship, so they don't need to be "twice as valuable as the average man" (they could even be less desirable than average - by the conventional standard anyway - because I'm not having a full-on live-in relationship with everyone).

I am poly and I prefer dating monogamous women, nothing against poly women it’s jus not what I am attracted to. My preference is women with traditional values, you could even call it a kink I guess because traditional women turn me on. It is more natural because in history men could have as many wives as he could provide for.

I see what your saying tho, but In my opinion those classically attractive traits in men like money, status, courage, and chivalry always get more women interested, even tho women like you might date a man without those classically attractive traits I think it is not typical for those men to have many options.
 

mountaingirl

Active member
A wise pickup artist once said that to date two women you need to be twice as desirable as the average man. If you only spend half as much time with her it must be twice as valuable to her than an average man's full attention. The size of a harem will correlate to the value of the man.
I wouldn't use simple math to describe any part of poly relationships except house chores ...
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
That may be true if you're trying to date multiple monogamous people, but it's completely different from the poly mindset. I don't "sacrifice monogamy" to be poly; I WANT to be poly. And most poly people probably don't want to date monogamous people who feel like they are making a sacrifice. I also don't mind less time with a partner, since I can only offer less time myself too. Finally, everyone brings unique values to a relationship, so they don't need to be "twice as valuable as the average man" (they could even be less desirable than average - by the conventional standard anyway - because I'm not having a full-on live-in relationship with

I'm totally uninterested in dating anyone who is half-assing in a relationship already. It's something I specifically screen for in all partners, but especially men. While their behavior may not be directly impacting on me because I don't need them to play that live in spouse role for me, it's beneath me to enable someone to continue to half-ass in my company.

For that reason, someone who is very particular about their responsibilities and who manages their resources effectively is highly attractive. Men who make it clear they understand the inequality with labor in heterosexual relationships and take steps to counteract it are top quality. Men who deny it and say it's sexist to point out facts? Eh. Little boys.
 

Eponine

Active member
I'm totally uninterested in dating anyone who is half-assing in a relationship already. It's something I specifically screen for in all partners, but especially men. While their behavior may not be directly impacting on me because I don't need them to play that live in spouse role for me, it's beneath me to enable someone to continue to half-ass in my company.

For that reason, someone who is very particular about their responsibilities and who manages their resources effectively is highly attractive. Men who make it clear they understand the inequality with labor in heterosexual relationships and take steps to counteract it are top quality. Men who deny it and say it's sexist to point out facts? Eh. Little boys.
None of this seems to contradict what I said? Since Hanky was emphasizing men's desirability in money and status, I said I don't mind a partner being less conventionally desirable, which means they don't have to have a stable job or middle-class income (as long as I don't merge finances with them). Willingness to take on household chores is of course attractive, although I haven't found it to be super important yet, because I have limited, LDR-only poly experience.

Out of curiosity, how do you screen potential partners in this aspect? Do you just ask them how much housework they do?

I also don't see why this makes dating more difficult for partnered poly men. Partnered or not, a man can be either good or bad at taking household responsibilities.
 
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SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
None of this seems to contradict what I said? Since Hanky was emphasizing men's desirability in money and status, I said I don't mind a partner being less conventionally desirable, which means they don't have to have a stable job or middle-class income (as long as I don't merge finances with them). Willingness to take on household chores is of course attractive, although I haven't found it to be super important yet, because I have limited, LDR-only poly experience.

Out of curiosity, how do you screen potential partners in this aspect? Do you just ask them how much housework they do?

Some of it, I'd say especially when I was younger, you can tell just by interacting with them.

For example, I remember a guy who had 2 young kids. The whole family had gone on vacation - long car ride away - and he was up for intitiating a date on the day they came back. I know now that returning home that day for a proactive parent would be Hell on Earth. The fact he felt it was a good time to step out and have some fun after being cooped up with the family all week should have been my indication that he was slacking at home. His slacking at home was why his wife could never be her best self towards his partners or him as a poly person. Of course, she just got a reputation as a nagging wife.

Generally speaking, you can tell as you're getting to know someone. The little things they mention. Do they know when the garbage bags need putting out? Have they ever mentioned doing laundry ("hold on, I'm just folding these clothes"). Do they generally minimize mess and clean up after themselves how most of us do when we are responsible for cleaning it up?

I didn't equate what Hanky said as being about money, per se. I agree with the sentiment though. The successful het poly guys I know who really don't experience any sort of scarcity are indeed either conservative types with wealth and those capitalist assets, or they are progressive feminist men who have a working understanding of social privilege.
 
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