Not wanting to micromanage, but... (dating a cheater)

Arabella

Arabella

New member
Minor struggle here, looking for opinions from strangers on the interwebz. ;)

My hubby just ended a relationship with a woman I call D1. It was short and sweet, and burned out quickly, with her citing lack of physical proximity and inability to get away from her kids enough, and him struggling with her back-and-forth emotional instability. He's now interested in a woman I call D2, and is eager to jump right into that one, days after he ended it with D1.

Now, I am by nature a control... advocate. (I don't wanna say freak.) What I mean by this is that I'm super-conscious of trying not to interfere in my husband's relationships. We got off to a rocky start in poly (who doesn't, really?) when he wanted (and I briefly gave him) veto power over the physical intimacy aspect to my relationship with my secondary, Mr. C. Since then, we've renegotiated boundaries/conditions/whathaveyou, and we realize that it's not right for either of us to demand/wield that kind of power and interference.

So now, I kinda... well, I have issues with these two women that he's dated and will date.

The thing is, they're married and cheating. Their husbands do not know, and definitely would not approve of them sleeping with my husband. D1 said she had "tried" to talk to her husband about opening their marriage, but he won't talk about it with her. That's not poly, to me, and that wouldn't be okay with me. And while dh felt uncomfortable with that, he still found it acceptable to the point where they went on a few dates and slept together, and even started saying "I love you," in text (and then broke up two weeks later :rolleyes:).

The problem I have with them being married largely has to do with safety. The way I see it, if they're cheating on their husbands, then it's slightly more likely that the husbands are cheating on them, making sexual activity with them a big risk. At the very least, it clearly shows that they don't communicate about these things, and that puts me at a big risk.

I told Dear Hubby this, and only said that if he was going to engage in physical activity with them, I would refrain from having unprotected sex with him until he got tested (after each time.) Since this was not acceptable for him, he got angry with me for effectively controlling his relationship. I'd like to say that it wasn't the case, but... well... he makes his own decisions. He's a grown man.

D2, the woman he's looking to date now, is also married, and her husband also doesn't know, and would be devastated if he found out. In addition to the safety of my sexual health, I also don't want an angry husband showing up on my doorstep one day with a semi-automatic while I'm with our son, demanding to find out where my husband is (the man who's sleeping with his wife).

I bring these things up to Dear Hubby (dh). He considers them and "thinks" about it, but it didn't seem to stop him last time, and he dated D1 anyway. I have a feeling he's going to do the same with D2.
~~~~~~~~

I don't want to tell him who he can and cannot date. I know I can only respond accordingly with what fits my needs when he makes these choices that make me uncomfortable. But what do I do if he dates her anyway, and I seriously am worried about Angry Husband on my Doorstep? I so much wish dh shared the same morals as I do about not being a homewrecker. But I've BTDT before, and he's had precious little relationship experience before me, so this is all new to him.

I feel like I'm raining on his parade when I say that every woman that takes an interest in him I want to veto (even though we don't do that) because I'm worried about the safety and health of the family. In our marriage, in general areas, I've often been the one to shut his ideas down quickly because they don't seem practical to me, and I'm really working on not doing that and giving them more consideration.

So what do I do here, besides what I already have done, which is make my concerns known? I don't want him dating D2, especially if her husband doesn't know/approve. Dh asked her if she thought she'd ever discuss this with her husband in the future, and she said it's not likely, and "Trust me, he'll never find out, anyway." Famous last words, if you ask me. :rolleyes:

I don't feel right in saying, "No, you cannot date this woman," or something like, "If you do, then we're getting a divorce," but I am definitely not comfortable with this. However, I love so much that he actually seems happy, and I am really enjoying being his best friend again, discussing these things with him. I hate to give that up.

Thoughts, please?
 
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Other than the obvious, it not being very moral, I always think of the scenario of what happens when there are feelings involved between the cheater and the enabler, and the cheated-on spouse finds out and offers an ultimatum-- choose him/her or me? Not many say "hasta la vista" to the spouse and leave. That leaves the enabler out in the cold holding their feelings in their hand and feeling lost.

It's also hard to live down the nickname of "homewrecker" in some cases, or in small towns.

And I am not personally fond of being anyone's dirty little secret, so the secrecy and the inability to go out together, even just for coffee, would not be much fun.

True story: we live in a small town, an hour away from a fairly large city. There was a couple here, the husband had cheated on the wife for some 6 years, and the other woman lived in the town an hour away. One day, the wife took the daughter to the doctor, while the husband was supposed to be out of town. The wife and daughter pull up to a stop light. The daughter looks into the car next to them, and sees dear old dad and girlfriend. The result is divorce, split the family, house in repo, etc., etc.

There is very little chance that it could go on forever without a slip-up somewhere.
 
Hmm, one of the guys I am seeing dates cheating women. He feels that he does a risk assessment to see how likely it is to blow up, and to be fair, the women he dates are relatively low-risk in that respect. However, right now, we share no practical entanglements. If a jealous, angry husband comes and smashes his windows, they are his windows. I have made it clear that if I had a partner that I was significantly entangled with, perhaps living together, for instance, I would put a rule/boundary in place that meant we didn't get involved with cheaters because that would be our windows being smashed, not just my partner's. He agrees with the logic in that.

So, basically, what I am saying is that it would be "against the rules" for my husband to be dating a cheater. I might overlook a random shag where they share next to no personal information, but as for an ongoing relationship, it's too risky that their shit will affect me and mine.

I do also know, however, that for the non-monogamous male, excluding cheaters does minimise your dating pool quite significantly. I get that it might suck, but I'm afraid they would have to sacrifice that if they wanted that level of relationship with me.
 
Arabella said:
I told Dear Hubby this, and only said that if he was going to engage in physical activity with them, I would refrain from having unprotected sex with him until he got tested (after each time.) Since this was not acceptable for him, he got angry with me for effectively controlling his relationship.
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You deciding who you are and are not going to have unprotected sex with is not making decisions for someone else. That's your body; you have exclusive authority over what is done with it.

He is wrong on this part, totally and completely wrong. Do what you want with your body, and tell everyone around you they can deal with it or go fuck themselves.

Arabella said:
I also don't want an angry husband showing up on my doorstep one with a semi-automatic
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If you actually have concern for your safety (like being murdered by a jilted husband) then you are a fool if you do not act on it. And by act on it I mean tell your husband you will not live under the terror of future violence and will leave if he has such low regard for your safety. "But he seems so happy" is not a good enough reason for you to allow yourself to be put in danger of having your door kicked in and your head blown off.

That is to say, if this is a real fear of physical harm. Are you scared for your life, or is it not a real issue, and your husband's temporary happiness is more important?

Arabella said:
I don't want him dating D2, especially if her husband doesn't know/approve.
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What are the other reasons for your not wanting him to date her?
 
I told Dear Hubby this, and only said that if he was going to engage in physical activity with them, I would refrain from having unprotected sex with him until he got tested (after each time).
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Ok, I agree that it's your body, your choice, but I don't understand the scientific logic in this. To me, it's as if you are saying that cheaters are inherently dirty. The logical thing would be that a cheater would be more adamant about not bringing home anything that would reveal their cheating, such as an STI, or a baby. If your husband sleeps with them with a condom, he would be at no more risk than he would sleeping with someone like me who is openly and ethically non-monogamous. The reason why this troubles me is because I have found that wives often discriminate against me simply because I have casual sexual relationships and they don't. To be honest, I think it's just a way for them to put another obstacle in the way of their husband having other relationships. I completely get the other reasons why you wouldn't want your husband to date a cheater, but saying that they are inherently more of a STI hazard than anyone else who isn't monogamous simply isn't true.
 
Hi Arabella :)

I understand where you are coming from on this. My GF and I differ in our opinions, or at least, we have done in the past, regarding dating married men/women.

I used to vehemently disagree with the idea. In fact, I can't stand cheating or lying of any kind. My girlfriend, however, sees a different side of the story and it gave me pause for thought. The way she sees it, she actually sometimes feels compassion for the 'cheater.' She thinks that sometimes people are trapped, because they love their spouse dearly, but just cannot get what they need, be that sex, kink, polyamory, or something else.

I personally feel that this is cowardly, but that being said, I've been involved with women online who are married and their husbands don't know... with the caveat that we don't move past the virtual reality - we don't call, videochat, or meet in person. Of course, once I got close to those two women, the temptation to take it further was quite large. But, so far, I haven't been there.

Personally, I think that you should leave it to your husband to decide. There are many downfalls, morality not being the least of them. But there can be upsides. Married people can tend to 'fit' more easily, if he doesn't want to be in a situation where he ends up with a second primary, and so on.

As for how you treat your sexual health, I think it's important to stick to your guns about what you feel. However, to be honest, I tend to feel more cautious when I meet a woman who is openly poly and has many partners, who also have partners, etc., than if I think of a monogamously-married woman having sex with me, while cheating on her husband.

It's highly unlikely that an angry husband will come to your door... and if this is one of your fears, perhaps you and your hubby can set up strict precautions to prevent this happening. For example, he never gives out your address, or has these women over to your house, etc.

Whilst I don't think he is being morally attractive, I do think that he needs to learn the lesson the hard way. Only once we have experienced something do we actually often find ourselves able to understand what we put another person through. But, let's say that one day you meet someone amazing, but they have an oppressive spouse whom they love, they feel trapped, and things aren't so black and white. It's a tough one.

But ultimately, if it were me, I'd let my partner make their own ethical decisions. It is his head that they will rest on.
 
Please tell me you are not having unprotected sex with him.
 
He threw a bit of a fit when the OP brought up STD testing.

He has no problem being involved in a deceitful situation. Plus who knows what diseases these women be could carrying? Just because he isn't having PIV sex doesn't mean he isn't getting something from these women. STDs can be transmitted orally, too. I highly doubt he and his partners are using oral dams.
 
I think he may have thrown a fit because she asked him to have an STD test every time he has sex with a cheating woman. That isn't reasonable, logical, rational or very sex positive. Him using a barrier method with a cheating woman is no different from him using a barrier method with someone who is ethically non-monogamous. In fact, you can fuck more in an ethically non-monogamous relationship because you don't have to creep around. I think this idea of cheating women being more risky is more about discriminating against the promiscuous than actual science.
 
Dishonest people tend to be dishonest in more than one area of their lives.

If you are going to have unprotected sexual contact with any new partner, then an STD screen is required, or no unprotected sexual contact with me. If my husband becomes sexually active with his new love interest, you had better believe I will not be having unprotected sex of any kind with him. It is for the protection of my sexual health, and also my boyfriend's.
 
Nobody mentioned not using protection with the cheating women, though. A cheating person wouldn't risk everything by bringing home an STD or a baby.
 
london said:
Nobody mentioned not using protection with the cheating women, though. A cheating person wouldn't risk everything by bringing home an STD or a baby.
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You would think, but unfortunately, that's often not the case. Maury Povich has built himself a nice little empire from such people. Take a stroll through relationship forums all over the internet. See for yourself.
 
That isn't research that proves that cheaters are more likely to be lapse with sexual health than ethically non-monogamous people. Explain to me how someone who has casual, random encounters with protection as part of an ethically non-monogamous relationship, like me, is less risky than someone who is cheating but also using protection. This is my point. If the OP requires her husband to have an STD check after every protected sexual encounter with a cheater, then she should require the same from me. Identifying as poly does not give you extra immunity against STDs.
 
I've seen claims that say that STIs are lower in the "poly community." However, a quick Google search isn't indicating any real studies that back that up. Here's an older thread on the subject with some links:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2414

Overall, it simply seems to boil down to "risk-takers take risks." If someone's going to take the risk of having a secret affair, then perhaps they'll engage in other risky behavior, as well.

Risk level aside, is the person in question a "stick his head in the sand" type, or one to acknowledge the risks and be proactive about them? THAT is what I'd be more concerned with. "Ignore it and it will go away" isn't a good strategy.
 
Overall, it simply seems to boil down to "risk-takers take risks." If someone's going to take the risk of having a secret affair, then perhaps they'll engage in other risky behavior, as well.
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Which, as I said, seems illogical to me once you put condoms in the mix. Okay, yes, one could still get herpes with a condom on, but because I slut around, I could easily give her husband herpes too. So she should want him to test every time he has sex with me too, because I slut around. I, too, might be lying about who I fluid bond, with and my general safer-sex practices. Being poly doesn't make you a saint. As I said, I think this is discrimination against how much sex a person has and under what conditions they form sexual relationships. It has no academic basis.
 
london said:
Which seems illogical to me, once you put condoms in the mix.
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I'm not assuming this is always the case. If a person is a risk-taker, then perhaps they'll just go without "just this once"... or get drunk and "oops"... whatever. I'm not talking about specific people, but the idea that if someone's a bit more of a risk-taker than you are, you may not trust them to always have your (and their) best interests in mind, regardless of how many (or how few) sexual partners they have.

london said:
One could still get herpes with a condom on, but because I slut around, I could easily give her husband herpes, too. So she should want him to test every time he has sex with me, too, because I slut around. I, too, might be lying about who I fluid bond with, and my general safer-sex practices. Being poly doesn't make you a saint... I think this is discrimination against how much sex a person has, and under what conditions they form sexual relationships. It has no academic basis.
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If you're unsure about how honest your partner's partner is being, then academic basis is moot. You don't trust them. It's an emotional response. I don't think I'd find it easy to trust someone when they're obviously already lying to someone (ostensibly) pretty important to them. What reason would they have to be honest with me?
 
Just because your version of ethical non-monogamy includes possible risky sexual behavior doesn't mean the rest of us need to follow your rules. This is our sexual health, not yours. If I personally want to protect myself by requiring my partner to meet a certain standard, that is my right. It is their right to decline, but they would no longer be my partner. I am looking out for my sexual health first.
 
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