Opening up my marriage

Journey

New member
My wife recently opened up (kind of unplanned) about her feelings for some of our close friends. She described to me that her friendships were on a spectrum and there wasn't a strict line between romantic love and friend love for her. She has been dealing with this by bottling it up and trying to avoid these feelings. She expressed that she would like to try to explore these relationships on a deeper level. She has also stressed that we come first and she cares the most about our relationship. I am trying to get past the hurt of potentially sharing her heart, soul and body with other people, so I know we aren't in a place to try this yet and she is incredibly understanding of this. At this time we are focusing on building our foundation to a stronger level before jumping into redefining our relationship.

I have tried to do some reading on how an open marriage might work and I keep seeing that we SHOULD NOT open this to close friends and especially not to mutual friends. I don't know what to do. Reading these things has scared me and of course in my mind I would rather this be about sex instead of romantic relationships with our friends.

Based on this, I feel like this is a unique situation and I was wondering if anyone has experience with something like this that could give me a bit of advice?
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

I think you could start here:

She has been dealing with this by bottling it up and trying to avoid these feelings.

Why is wife not confident in sharing her inner life stuff with you? And bottling up/gunny sacking? :confused:

Is is on her end? She's not good at communicating? If she's not good at communicating with one partner, what makes her think she's going to be awesome communicating with several partners?

Is it on your end? You don't create safe space in which to share?

Is it a bit of both?

I think you could Open more to each other before you start Opening up to others.

I have tried to do some reading on how an open marriage might work and I keep seeing that we SHOULD NOT open this to close friends and especially not to mutual friends. I don't know what to do. Reading these things has scared me and of course in my mind I would rather this be about sex instead of romantic relationships with our friends.

Sex sometimes leads to romantic/attachment feelings. Are you aware of that?

I happen to think dating friends is better than strangers. You already know them and have some things in common. This assumes you already have a support system in place should things go awry.

If the advice is NOT to date your friends because they are the people who you will rely on for support/help should things go awry? Then perhaps you have some friends who are date-able and some friends who are off limits on your respective "messy lists."

Like I would not want my spouse to date my mom, my boss, a kid's teacher etc. Because if they date and then break up or something, that person could make my life hell. There is enough people in the world to date without going right for the messies.

I don't need DH to date my boss and then for boss to take it out on me or fire me or something if DH breaks up with them.

Some are permanent. Dating my mom is just forever too weird.

Some are temporary. Dating a kid's teacher? Wait til they are not teaching the kid and they become "dateable" again. Then teacher cannot take it out on the kid if they break up.

I might have a friend who is my support system person should things go wrong. So I ask spouse not to date them. Because then that puts the friend in the middle with a conflict of interest.

You guys could talk about your "mess people lists" when you talk. Most people have one even if not actually articulated. I encourage you to articulate.

Perhaps the next step after that is Opening Up to others about this change in your life so you build that support network for yourselves. You don't have to be "out" to the whole world, but consider a few so you have IRL support. Online people can be comforting, but they cannot bring you soup or mow your lawn or watch the kids or air you out if you struggling with something.

I have seen other people Open their marriages in total secret. They start dating and stuff. Then a big problem thing happens like break ups or whatever. And they find they don't have real life support systems in place. Which makes the tough thing even worse to deal with.

Def do more reading. Some couples take years to prepare. Maybe these could help some.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
https://www.morethantwo.com/

Also talk about how this will END.

She has also stressed that we come first and she cares the most about our relationship.

That's a nice sentiment. But what does she mean? She's going to keep the marriage going no matter what? Even if it is hurting her or you to keep on with it?

Part of preparedness is talking about how to break up if this goes wrong. Or if nothing goes wrong, but one wants to keep going with Open marriage and the other tries it and is like "Meh. I prefer Closed." Then what?

Even if you never Open, this is something married people could talk about. Life is long. People fall out of love, grow apart, things can happen in a Life.

I think a couple could talk about how to part ways respectfully when nothing is going on and they are calm and collected. Smack in the middle of hooha is NOT the time to start making the emergency plan.

If after a period of engagement, seriously considering if Open marriage is for you? If you decide it is not? It's ok to say "I love you a whole lot. But not even for you will I go there. I have educated myself. This is just not my cup of tea. If you wish to go, I will not stop you. But I need to get off this Bus first. We must disband."

Then you are free FROM anything you do not want. And she is free TO pursue what she wants.

I sometimes see people bending themselves into pretzels doing stuff they really don't want to be doing just to avoid breaking up. They are all about "save the relationship from ending!" rather than "do what is healthiest for the people." Sometimes the healthiest thing IS to allow the relationship to end/change into something else.

Not trying to be a wet blanket -- just saying to proceed with caution and be realistic as you educate yourself. Some newbies go at it like "kid in a candy store" without really thinking things through all the way.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you! I really appreciate this insight. It is extremely helpful. I should mention we have clearly defined our boundries with our friends at the moment in order to build up our own relationship and prepare to Open when/if we feel ready. We will continue to work on our communication and do some reading that you've recommended.
 
Hi Journey,

Personally I think it is okay to open to friends, perhaps better than opening to strangers. Although, you have to decide what's best for you in your situation. Hopefully, you and your wife can work things out.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
The only caveat to involving close friends is you may no longer be close friends afterwards. That depends on your friends. It's not any different than if you were single and decided to move into a deeper relationship with a friend and things didn't work out that way. Then it's just awkward, maybe. My wife had a quasi-threesome with a friend and his girlfriend. He still acts weird around me...lol.
 
How do I support?

An Update: We have been doing really well with open communication and are feeling very good about building a foundation however I am having difficulty with one thing:

When my wife opened up to me about her feelings, she mentioned a specific mutual friend and that she had already crossed the line with this friend on multiple occasions in the past year. This was extremely hurtful to me as I can understand the feelings, but have a hard time with the lying and exclusion of me by my partner and my close friend. It's very painful for me. I am at a place where I am ok and supportive of my wife having feelings for other people and possibly exploring these feelings in the near future, but not when it is behind my back without communication.

Since we are working on building up our relationship and preparing before opening, we have agreed for her to keep this relationship with our friend strictly platonic while we build and focus on us. My wife seemed very ok with this at first and implied it wouldn't be too hard for her (this discussion happened 2 weeks ago). Things were going fine, but, in the past few days she has been experiencing real heartbreak and a sense of loss with this element of romance taken away from her relationship with our friend. She is sad and moping around the house and it's hard for me to see. I can understand this feeling because she has lost something, but I don't know the best way to support her at this time. This is a particular situation for me because it is still hurtful for me to hear about and it still comes from a place of pain, mistrust and lying for me. At the same time, I do want to hear about what she is going through so I can better understand. Does anyone have any guidance on how to support a partner in heartbreak when it comes from a painful place for you?

I have been asking her about what she is going through and wanting to talk more about it, and she is talking to me about it when prompted, but I fear she feels like she is being interrogated. I'm not sure if I should let her quietly mourn this loss or if I should push her to share it with me so that we can be more open and communicative. I guess my fear is, if we don't keep talking about this and her feelings on it, what is the difference from when she was hiding these feelings from me?
 
I am sorry you struggle. I could be wrong in my impressions so I don't know if any of this might help you.

I can understand this feeling because she has lost something, but I don't know the best way to support her at this time.

I think the best way to support her is to leave her alone to process her stuff. Don't get all up in it. Give her some space.

She crossed the line on some agreements. She owned it, and you guys now have this NEW agreement. That she will chill with Dude while taking the time to repair marriage from the ding.

So... she chills. It's ok for her to be feeling sad or whatever right now. Choices have consequences. It's her process, let her do her process which includes a period of sadness/remorse for making poor choices on impulse or whatever.

When my kid were little and painted on the walls? They had to scrub it all off again. It stinks. They don't like the clean up job. They are sad about it. I don't like seeing them sad, but this is a thing they have to learn and do: To take personal responsibility for their choices. To apologize. To make amends.

If I took that lesson away from them, I would not be helping them any.

I get that you feel sad seeing your partner sad. But let it be what it is right now. Let her deal with it.

After all, she had a voice in it. She did not have to agree to these new agreements. She could have offered other ways to handle it. But now that you HAVE agreed? Get on with the repair work then.

This is a particular situation for me because it is still hurtful for me to hear about and it still comes from a place of pain, mistrust and lying for me.

If you are not the right person for "listening job" right now? You do not have to be the listening person. She can talk to people other than you to help her with her process.

You are too close to it.

At the same time, I do want to hear about what she is going through so I can better understand.

Why? :confused:

You could talk to other people who have crossed a line and had to repair. It doesn't have to be HER in particular. You can understand from others what it was like for them. What it is like to have to make good after a ding.

Perhaps you can draw on your own experiences where you dinged somebody and then had to apologize and make good.

Why do you want it to be from HER at this time? Esp when hearing about it at this time keeps you in the hurting place? This is not a conversation that could happen way later when you are well and no longer hurting? :confused:

Does anyone have any guidance on how to support a partner in heartbreak when it comes from a painful place for you?

Sometimes one supports by saying nothing. If you are hurting and silence is the best you can offer? Offer silence. You don't have to be all rah-rah cheerleader supportive if you don't have the energy for that. Give yourself permission to focus on YOUR part of healing and let her do HER part.

Could also focus on the new behavior. You had the old agreement. She messed up. Sounds like she apologized and you have this NEW agreement for behaviors. Hopefully she lives up to it and demonstrates she can now be trusted to keep her agreements.

Could focus on seeing if she does her new behaviors or not. Rather than overfocus on whatever she's feeling in the moment.

PURPOSEFUL COMMUNICATION

I'm not sure if I should let her quietly mourn this loss or if I should push her to share it with me so that we can be more open and communicative.

Why push people? That's not kind. :confused:

Let me ask you something. What do you want to be more open and communicative ABOUT? :confused:

Having no personal boundaries or no mental filter -- just telling/sharing every thought that pops into your heads? That's "open" maybe... but it's not "purposeful communication" to me. It could become the fountain of blahblahblah. Make an already hard thing worse because then you have to wade through all the excess data.

I had a crap day at work. It's like all the kids in my 2nd period had ants in the pants. One feeding off the other til the whole room was all cranky pants. I could not teach well because it was all about behavior management. Am I going to tell husband all that blahblahblah in detail when he gets home? Nope. Cliff Notes will do. I could just say "Man, 2nd period was wacky. Hope tomorrow is better!" and not detail it like a list of what each single kid did.

I'm still being open and communicative about how my day was, but I don't have to overload him. It's more purposeful communication -- because at the end of the day? Even if I DID list each kid in detail? He cannot hear me anyway. Usually his own days are rough and he's too fried for more than "Cliff Notes." But he gets enough cliff notes to go "I'm sorry your 2nd period was nuts! I hope tomorrow is better too!"

Do I care if his client A did this and Client B did that at his work? Nope. Do I care how HE is doing? Yes. So giving me his Cliff Notes is enough for me. He can go "Man, my clients keep complaining about their software not doing X. They did not pay for X support. I'm not gonna do it because it is not in their contract. " Do I need the details? Nope. I have enough data to commiserate and I can go "Man, that stinks. Moochy clients trying to get free work off you. I'm sorry."

What does all that communication MEAN? Both of us are saying the same thing.

"I had a hard day. Could you be willing apply sympathy, please?"

That's why I ask you... What does "open and communicative" MEAN to you? What are you trying to communicate better ABOUT? How you comminicate now... what is not working? Do you need to change HOW you talk to each other? Rather than give more data, give less data?

MEANING

I guess my fear is, if we don't keep talking about this and her feelings on it, what is the difference from when she was hiding these feelings from me?

Well... What does this really MEAN to you? Are you saying something like...

"I want her to tell me what she's feeling all the time. That way I can be safe. She won't have some new romantic feelings and go do stuff on impulse that will ding me later. Since I'll know her feelings, I will see it coming. I won't be surprised. Then I have a chance to get out of the way so I don't get dinged."​

If so, I wouldn't go there. Like you have become the "Feelings Police."

I would focus on behavior done/not done. Or the behavior you want to see in future/do not want to see.

Because you can SEE if behavior happens or not on your own. You don't have to ask her.

  • If the agreement is she takes out the trash on Friday? You can SEE if the trash it out or not.

  • If the agreement is to chill with the dude until X date? You can see if she's chilling or not til X date.
  • If the agreement is to work on the marriage and repair trust for X weeks? You can see if she's doing that work or not over the weeks.

  • If the agreement is to check in first if agreements don't work or need modifying? You can see if she starts doing that with the small stuff of life.

Like if Friday she normally takes out the trash. But THIS Friday she is going to a birthday party. Could you be willing to swap chores? She will do your Wed recycle if you do her Friday trash? That's giving you a heads up and renegotiating the agreement just for this week.

If you can see the new behavior of (give me a heads up, renegotiate rather than ding me) happening in the small stuff of life, perhaps that makes you more willing to trust her at her Word that from this point forward she will also be practicing this behavior in the other areas of life.

PRACTICAL SUGGESTION

I don't know if this approach could help you.

You could take this list and do it together.

You do it and she does one and then compare what lines up or not.

  • Highlight all the green light things. (Do all that stuff as you please. Don't have to tell me)
  • Yellow light stuff? (Probably ok, but check in first. Proceed with caution.)
  • Red stuff? (STOP. NO. )

You can remove things that do not apply or add missing things from the list.
But figure out agreements for what the "swimming pools" are -- green, yellow, red.

There. Then it is easy to see behavior in "colors." And in X months, perhaps you do it again and some stuff loosens up.
  • Old yellow things are now green.
  • Old red things are now yellow.

Because trust has been rebuilt and new skills have been grown so people aren't getting dinged like before.

I could be wrong, but if you fixate on what she feels/doesn't feel, it's not really getting the job of rebuilding trust. It's just becoming the Feelings Police.

And keeping the non-trust going.

Galagirl
 
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Hi Journey

I read your posts

I'm not very experienced with a variety of poly relationships, only with my own. But I really think that any poly relationship requires love between ALL members, or else there will be hurt feelings and resentment sooner or later. Even if you communicate with each other effectively, one of you might not like what is being communicated, and will suffer hurt feelings/resentment/jealousy/envy. For a poly relationship to work long-term, everybody needs to love everybody to some extent. This may not be possible.

Maybe your wife doesn't really want a poly relationship. Maybe this was just a learning experience, an experiment gone wrong. If this is the case, just love her and be nice to her, and things will get back to somewhat-normal. Give her space, don't prod her, but be around, be there when she needs you.

If your wife loves you, and still wants a poly relationship, encourage her to try a relationship with a female (I don't know if she is bisexual). I think poly relationships with multiple females work better than poly relationships with multiple men, unless the men are bisexual.

If she's not bisexual, obviously she will want a relationship with a male. Are you bisexual, then? If not, then this poly relationship will not work, and she has to reevaluate her desire for a poly relationship if she wants to keep her marriage.

Just my blunt opinion, not everyone agrees, I hope I can help you somehow, take care
 
Thanks for your insight again, Galagirl. You've given me a lot to think about and have opened my eyes to some of my actions/reactions. I completely agree that maybe I am trying far too hard to be "open" with feelings and ask for openness with everything when that is not necessary or helpful in this situation. This has been extremely helpful for me to see! I know right now the little things seem huge, but I feel better prepared to be a better partner after reading your response.
 
Maybe your wife doesn't really want a poly relationship. Maybe this was just a learning experience, an experiment gone wrong. If this is the case, just love her and be nice to her, and things will get back to somewhat-normal. Give her space, don't prod her, but be around, be there when she needs you.

Thank you! I will definitely follow this advice and just try to "love and be nice". It's the simple things that get lost in my head at a time like this, but this is a perfect thing to focus on.
 
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