Please Help, How can we make it work?

C

chrisb

New member
My wife and I and our girlfriend are a little confused :confused: at how we can make things work between us, so I thought what a better place to seek for advice than here. Please forgive me if this thread ends up being a little long but I would just like to give a little history on our situation as it goes back about 14 years or so.

So here it goes, my wife and I have been together almost 15 years since we were both 16 and married for 9. When were 17 my wife came to me and said that she was a little curious and one of her friends was curious as well and they wanted to experiment with one another.

I told her that I was okay with that but I told her that if she liked it and wanted to carry on with being with women that I would like to be involved as well. She agreed and they experimented and both enjoyed it. A couple weeks later I watched them have sex and then her friend watched us which we all found rather exciting.

Almost immediately afterwards we all moved in together for a couple months but nothing else ever happened between any of us in that time.

Then my wife and her friend got into a fight, her friend moved out and we didn't see or hear from her for about 12.5 years in which time my wife and I never experimented with anyone else, male or female. Until one day my wife found her friend on Facebook and started chatting her up.

We found out that she ended up being a lesbian, all my wife's fault, LOL.

Shortly after they reconnected my wife and I were going for Christmas holidays back to our home town where my wife's friend happened to be spending Christmas as well that year. So we planned to meet up and see her while we were there.

When we seen her we ended up finding out that she was very much into my wife still. My wife and I had discussed the possibility of a threesome and fantasized about it on many occasions. So we brought up the possibility of something happening and all of us ended up hooking up a couple days later in a hotel room.

The next day my wife and I were done our Christmas vacation and went home but we still kept in touch with her. We found the experience that night with her friend to be very fun and exciting and said that we would be up for doing it again if the opportunity ever came up.

A couple months later her friend was going through some tough times and we agreed that she could come up and stay with us and our 3 kids for a while. But we made it very clear to her though that if anything ever did happen that it would be with both of us at the same time.

Needless to say that we hooked up on numerous occasions and over time it ended up getting to the point that there were some feelings developing. So we talked and all agreed that she was like our "girlfriend".

This went on for a couple of months but as I mentioned we had kids so it was hard for us to make things work. Over time it got to the point where our "girlfriend" said that she was just feeling like she was our sex toy and eventually she ended up leaving and moving back home.

We still kept in touch with her as friends over the next year or so but near the end of the year my wife and I were really starting to miss her and having her a part of our lives. We had talked and agreed that "it just felt right with her in our lives". So we talked with our "girlfriend" and she agreed to come back and live with us.

She has been back living with us for just over a month now but this time around things have been feeling really awkward at times. We have only slept with her once since she has been here. Also nothing was ever really discussed between all of us in regards to the status of our relationship. It just really seemed like an awkward friendship with little bit of flirting once in a while.

We all knew the feelings were there but nobody really wanted to come out and address the elephant in the room until last night. Our "girlfriend" told us that she is feeling like a toy again.

My wife and I in no way wish to make her feel that way and we want to figure out how to make things work between us because there is something there and it just feels right to have her in our lives.

So we all had a conversation last night and came to the understanding that we all wanted the same thing but non of us know what we need to do to make it work.

We have a couple of concerns, one being of course our children who are 12, 10 and 5. We don't know how to go about everything with them involved because at the end of the day their health and well being is our top priority. I know that there are many cases where it can work but we don't know how. we don't know if we need to keep it a secret from them, or if we don't, how will they take it :eek: Keep in mind that they are very accustomed to different lifestyles as my brother is gay and we have gays friends who are married and such. We just don't know how to go about it with them as we are their parents and not someone else.

Also another concern of ours is our marriage. My wife and I both agree that we in no way want to jeopardize our marriage. As it stands right now, we want to try to work it where she is our "girlfriend" and we are her couple. And our marriage is its own relationship. So its like there is two relationships involved. Because we are concerned that if we make it four relationships (wife and I, wife and her, me and her, us and her) that it could come between us due to developing feelings outside of our marriage. As I mentioned before she is a lesbian. So naturally she is more into my wife than she is me. For example, if my wife and her develop a stronger bond and feelings for one another than "girlfriend" and I, there could be jealousy and hard feelings coming into play, which could put strain on our marriage.

With that said as it stands right now there is no touchy feely, kissy kissy, fun in the bedroom or anything of that nature unless both my wife and I are involved. But as I think about it more today, will a set up like this even work? Could this be whats causing our "girlfriend" to feel like she is just a toy to us?

Which we do not want her to feel that way because that is not how we see her and want her to be more than just a toy.

Would it work better if we just said "no fun between the sheets" but in regards to the rest, what happens, happens?

That is pretty much our situation and we are having a hard time figuring things out, so that is why I figured I could come here for some answers or insight from people who have experienced or are experiencing a similar situation.

Thank you in advance for the help :cool:
 
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Yes, you folks ARE treating her like a sex toy. She has to play and have a relationship with both of you. Your marriage comes above her. I could go on.

She has flat out said she is a lesbian. Has it hit you yet that she is only having a relationship with you because that's the price of admission to be with your wife? How would you feel if your wife brought home a boyfriend and made you have sex with him? THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO THE GIRLFRIEND.

Why don't you butt out, find your own girlfriend, and allow the ladies to have their own relationship without you in it. Just because your wife has a girlfriend doesn't mean you get a new toy.
 
Stop having her live with you. You are married, have three kids and a whole history together - she can not just slide into that like a new toaster in the kitchen. Especiallly since you are not out to your kids and she has to pretend to be just the friend visiting. It is not fair to her and not fair to the kids.

Stop assuming she is into both your wife and you. Maybe she is mostly into your wife. Maybe she likes the both of you, but prefers to sometimes be with your wife alone.

Stop making all the rules. If you are serious about really letting her into your life again, serious about making her happy after so many times of her feeling rather used, if you are all serious... Please let her into the decition making of your lifes.

Check in on emotions weekly. It seems as it comes to a surprise to you when your girlfriend is unhappy, which tells me you don't have any routine to check up on how her feelings are. Make a plan on how to slowly disclose more to your family, friends and kids. Treat her well. Learn her love language. You really owe her big time, don't act like she is a long standing spouse with a great leverage like your wife is vs you, she is a new relationship and has to be treated with causion and with the awareness that what you are doing or not doing creates the base for the relationship. She said she has felt like a toy in the past - this is your clue to go in the other direction. Make her feel queen-like, make her feel like your special guest, hire a babysitter and take her out for dinners. You can still fuck her, but buy her roses.
 
Yes we are making her feel like a sex toy and this is exactly why we want to figure out how to make it work properly so no-one is getting hurt.

Yes to be honest it use to cross my mind at first but guess I should have specified that, yes she is a lesbian because she prefers to be with women but her and I also have a chemistry and enjoy one another in and out of the bedroom as well.
 
Lesbian means a female who is only sexually attracted to other females.
 
She feels like a sex toy, like she's being used, like she's a secondary citizen in your relationships because that is exactly what she is. The answer to how to make her stop feeling like a sex toy is to stop treating her as one. You and your wife make the rules, set the consequences, exist in ludicrous amounts of couple privilege, and expect the "girlfriend" to take those crumbs and be happy with them. You treat her as though she's there to enhance your marriage, not be a real, living person with wants and needs. Why she's put up with it this long is a mystery to me. What in the world is in it for her, especially long-term?

Read the articles Dagferi linked, and do a search here for "unicorn" and "unicorn hunter," and read those threads, then think on all of it--what you've been doing wrong, and steps to fix it, are all there. Then, talk about it with ALL of the parties involved. If you (and/or your wife) can't bring yourself/selves to treat people better, then close your relationship. If you want threesome sex, just be swingers. Less people will get hurt.
 
nycindie said:
No wonder she feels like a sex toy - your whole post is about sex, sex, sex, sex, sex!
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Yes I agree that the whole post us about sex sex sex, and that is exactly what it is about because that was what the whole relationship was built on.

This all started as a friends with benefits situation and wasn't meant to be more but it kind of escalated and now we are all kind of confused at where to go from here, and how to do it properly if we do decide to move forward.
 
Let the girlfriend decide who she wants to date first. Then if she chooses to date the other let it evolve naturally. That is the only way a triad works.

Micromanaging relationships never works.

Honestly I think you need to bow out. The girlfriend is into your wife. Allow her to date your wife without your meddling. Let them decide how their relationship goes. Stop forcing them to involve you. If the girlfriend wants a relationship with you then let her be the one to persue it. I have a strong suspicion that the gf has only had sex with you because she was told you had to be with you too also, and she was told or thinks she has to have your wife in her life. Add on she now lives in your house and has the added fear of being homeless if she doesn't play by the rules laid out by the two of you.

If that is the case all I can say is it looks very manipulative on you and your wife's part. Especially when you say there is only two relationships involved here.
 
Dagferi said:
Let the girlfriend decide who she wants to date first. Then if she chooses to date the other let it evolve naturally. That is the only way a triad works.

Micromanaging relationships never works.

Honestly I think you need to bow out. The girlfriend is into your wife. Allow her to date your wife without your meddling. Let them decide how their relationship goes. Stop forcing them to involve you. If the girlfriend wants a relationship with you then let her be the one to persue it. I have a strong suspicion that the gf has only had sex with you because she was told you had to be with you too also, and she was told or thinks she has to have your wife in her life. Add on she now lives in your house and has the added fear of being homeless if she doesn't play by the rules laid out by the two of you.

If that is the case all I can say is it looks very manipulative on you and your wife's part. Especially when you say there is only two relationships involved here.
Click to expand...

First of all I would like to thank you for your help and your input on our situation, I really appreciate it. Don't take this the wrong way, But at no point did I say that she didn't want a relationship with me. Being with me is not something that is forced upon her, in fact when this all started it was put out there by us that I don't even so much as touch her if she didn't want it but she is the one that asked for it from me. As I said in my previous post we have chemistry in and out of the bedroom.

And yes you are right we did have alot of rules and stipulations when it was a friends with benefits situation but that is why we are asking for input because we all want more and are looking for advice on how we can do it.

We have learned alot today and know that there are alot if things that need to change for this to work including involving her and her feelings, wants and needs in every step of the way as we move forward.

Again thank you so much for the help and resources you have supplied us.
 
The answer to making your girlfriend feel less like a sex toy is simple. Stop trying to be with her as a couple. Be with her as two individuals. Likely what will happen is your wife and her will have a relationship involving romantic love, you and her will have more of a friends with occasional benefits thing. Trying to force everything to be even-steven is impossible.

She might also feel better about herself and more autonomous if she moves out and gets her own life together, maybe finds some women to date outside the two of you.
 
Hi chrisb,

My observation is that the value of a relationship is proportionate to the amount of invested risk. You and your wife are very protective of your marriage, and very fearful that something might trip it up. This fear is preventing you from having dyad relationships with your girlfriend. My suggestion would be to pluck up your courage and let this woman be an equal in your relationship. Don't be a couple plus one. Be a (V or a) triad.

You're afraid that jealousy and hard feelings might come up. Well, they might. Jealousy and hard feelings come up in every close relationship, including marriage. Sometimes the feelings are extreme and the marriage is thus at risk. But without the risk, there is no marriage. Again, the value of a relationship is proportionate to the amount of invested risk.

You're afraid of being a (husband + wife) and (husband + girlfriend) and (wife + girlfriend) set. You're afraid that the three dyads won't be equal to each other. Your fear is protecting you from the risk, but it is also blocking you from the closeness that all three of you want with each other. You have to invest some risk into the situation in order to reap the rewards.

Don't try to make all the romance levels equal. Maybe your wife will have a much stronger romantic bond with your girlfriend than you do with your girlfriend. That's okay. The only bad part would be if one of you didn't get equal say and consideration as much as the other two ... and that's what's now happening. Your girlfriend is on a lower rung than you and your wife. You and your wife get to make all the rules and major decisions. Your girlfriend just has to go along. That's probably why she feels like a toy.

As for the kids, I think you need to figure out whether your girlfriend is going to be a permanent part of your lives before you tell the kids about the situation. Get things straightened out with your girlfriend, and after she's feeling like a person and not just a toy, and after she gets feeling good about staying with you for life, then tell the kids about that part of the relationships.

In summary, don't let your fears seal you off from the closeness you want with your girlfriend. Take some risks, and (in addition to the husband + wife + girlfriend aspect) let the three dyads stand. Don't say that your girlfriend can only have sex with your wife if you are present. Let the two ladies have some private time without you. Be courageous enough to take that risk.

That's my advice based on your story so far.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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