Please Help! Newer S.O. now wants Poly, need advice.

J

JacobJT

New member
I've been dating a woman for about 7 months now and have grown significantly emotionally attached to her over that period of time. We are active in a very busy local support community here in our area and have grown closer through our co-participation in this community and it's events throughout each week. She has also introduced me to the world of BDSM (I'd dabbled a touch before) and we've grown into kink together. I've only ever been in monogamous relationships before, although I've had one-off threesomes in a couple of them, but I tend to be more the monogamous type. I grow very attached to my S.O. and have feelings which I have a hard time imagining sharing. At first we had agreed that no sharing would be a rule, but over time she has come to realize that she is more polyamorous in her orientation (which in the past had led to cheating) and now feels like she needs to explore this in order to be happy. We're both terrified of losing the other and both stressed out to a crazy degree. She feels like she just wants to be 'normal' in order to be with me but she can't, and I feel like I just wish I could be 'poly' with her in the specific way she needs, but everything in me screams against it.

Let me be more specific. I'm open to exploring some situations together. Threesomes with another woman, threesomes with another man (I am straight, but our BDSM play goes into the realms of sexual degradation and the idea of seeing her fucked by more than 1 guy (me and another) is a (albeit risky) turn on), and that eventually I may be open to having more partners involved in our relationship. But she's fairly clear that what she really needs is her own separate relations with another man or two that are outside our relationship. She stated that we would probably need to meet, know each other, and talk about rules and such, but that the relationships would be individual and separate, and this scares the crap out of me. We're both very busy as is, and barely have the time and energy to keep up what we have. The idea of her splitting that time even more scares me senseless. And furthermore, she seems to have this tendency come naturally to her, which means its in her nature to seek and find these situations. I don't. So in my mind it's going to be me stressing, sitting at home, knowing she's screwing and bonding with another guy, while Im just stuck in my own crappy little world taking it.

I know that to many poly people this perspective probably sounds messed up. But I'm trying, I really am. I really care for this woman and want to try and make things work. Have any non poly people here who've ever been jealous or very tightly monogamous types ever truly opened up to the poly lifestyle? Is it even possible? Is she being too rigid in the specifics of what she needs? Am I being unreasonable in wanting to explore third person relationships together first?

I need help. We're in crises right now and we're both frazzled and stressed. All either of us seems to know is that we want to be with the other but can't be exactly what they want us to.

I need help!
 
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I've been doing poly for about a year now, before then I've only had monogamous relationships. Your perspective isn't screwed up - it is pretty familiar to me. In my own experience I have begun to recognize how deeply programed I have been towards monogamy, and I am in the process of unlearning. So for myself, I do believe it is possible to truly open up to a poly lifestyle.

Like everyone else here, I would recommend you read The Ethical Slut.

For myself, my jealousy is just an extension of my insecurity, in the same way that anger is an extension of my fear - I find it usefully to keep reminding myself how important it is to recognize that: Jealousy is more about having an issue with someones behavior, my insecurity is my issue - has nothing to do with the other person. Without insecurity, there isn't jealousy. It is crucial to me that I remember that my insecurity is my issue that only I can fix - if I delude myself into thinking my insecurity can be fixed by changing someone else's behavior, I up up the creek.

If it is difficult for you to remind yourself of this - just post here and Marcus will help you with that. :)

I'm still pretty new, so others here will have more practical advice for you based in personal experience.

For what it is worth, your girlfriend potentially bonding with someone else, isn't going to impact her bond with you. I have found there is an illusion of scarcity with love that does not hold up under honest scrutiny. I know this intellectually, and am working in integrating this emotionally. If both of you are in crisis - you may want to consider couples counseling with a poly friendly therapist.

Anyway - I do totally understand your fear - I have experienced it and it is really hard to manage, but I believe there are permanent potential rewards that outweigh the temporary discomfort. Good luck!
 
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all i can think of, ...

we've been raised to believe monogamy=love, love=monogamy, ... this has really screwed with our heads.

you know she wants you, you know you want her, ... her poly- nature has driven her to cheat in the past, ... she can want to be mono- with you, but it's not going to last like that.

if her nature says she's poly, and your nature says your mono, ... that's just person, her being poly doesn't mean you have to be poly, you being mono doesn't mean she has to be mono.

be yourselves :)

love each other as you 2 know how best to do for each other, ... if things don't work out, know you gave it your best. if the biggest problem is with the mono- poly- thing, ... find a way to get over it so your relationship can last.
 
JacobJT said:
Have any non poly people here who've ever been jealous or very tightly monogamous types ever truly opened up to the poly lifestyle? Is it even possible? Is she being too rigid in the specifics of what she needs? Am I being unreasonable in wanting to explore third person relationships together first?
Click to expand...

Last question first, I would back off from insisting that her future relationships should include you. Perhaps a better tactic would be to agree to slow down / push off the future relationships while you work on this together.

Now for the rest...

After my separation from my ex-husband, I started a relationship with my partner, knowing he is poly. He, in turn, was starting another relationship at the same time. This was not the easiest way to go about it, and tended to be "trial by fire" for all of us. Leave it to me to never back away from a challenge. :rolleyes:

However, he is quite honestly my best friend, and we click very well in a LOT of ways (hell, we can work on house renovations without killing each other - I think that says a lot right there!), so I felt it was worth the work.

Have I "opened up to the poly lifestyle"? I guess that depends on what you mean...

I remain mono. Although I have the same freedom in my relationship as he does (and his OSO does), I choose not to exercise it.

However, we've been able to find our own cruising altitude, and we've been in this relationship for two years now. One of my big issues (still can be an issue, but it's not so looming anymore) was also the time split. I needed to throw down an idea of what would work for me, time-wise (we agreed on a 50-50 split), put it in play, and see if it worked (and communicate like hell if it felt like it wasn't working). Your needs may be different, but those are things you'll have to work out between the two of you.

I didn't know what to do with myself after my divorce, and it would have been easy for me to lose myself in my relationship if the time limitation weren't there to begin with. It sucked. Hard. Especially as an extrovert... I get antsy with too much alone time. But I had to learn how to be ME again. What things do I like to do? That sort of thing. It kind of forced my hand, and even though I'd like to have more time with him, I'm glad I'm feeling more and more like my old self again.

As for reading material, I never had an interest in The Ethical Slut, because I wasn't looking to open up my own sexuality. Opening Up has a slant toward opening existing relationships, so it may help, but I really found a lot of good mono/poly stuff on morethantwo.com. Bonus: it helped my partner understand my thoughts/feelings better when I couldn't really articulate them ("Here, read this!").

Good luck and hang in there. (And please try to back off from including yourself in her relationships until you guys get on more stable ground and decide, together, if that's what you REALLY want - her autonomy may be very important to her, and this may be a no-go.)
 
If your partner cheated, and it is not resolved, of course you feel UGH about starting to polyship with someone who broke trust in the past somewhere. There is no easy way to begin polyship from a cheating place or with lack of trust. Has trust been restored? Or is it still raw? If raw? Don't sign up for polyshipping when you are raw. Heal first.

If this is just not your scene, could accept it. Break up. Because you don't want to sign up to merely "survive" in a polyship. You deserve better than mere "survival" from your dating relationships. If you sign up to polyship, you want to thrive in it. You want to choose it with joy in your heart, not fear of loss in your heart. And if you ALREADY KNOW you cannot thrive in it? And only consider doing it from fear based reasons? You are not offering yourself as a solid, strong polypartner are you? Could not do that.

She's not a pen or a book. She's not going to "get lost" if you break up. If you still want to be in each others lives as friends you will be.


Could chose to do self respecting behavior and NOT put yourself into situations that are not fun/healthy/enjoyable to you at this time. Could spare yourself further grief by saying "No thank you. I am not willing to participate in that. I have reached a personal limitation. If there you go? I cannot follow you there. It sucks, but there it is."

There are many "hub" type pages out there. Go here first. Check out jealousy, pitfalls and how to open a monoship if you need more data before making your final call.

But to me it sounds like it boils down to "not willing to participate in a polyship because it is causing me distress to my mental health just thinking about it. Ugh!" So don't sign up for increased UGH. Plain and simple. Not fun to FEEL maybe, but plain and simple decision/action there.

Tell her you want to be with her but don't want to polyship. A limit has been reached. There. You made her aware of where you stand.

She could now choose...

a) let go of the want to polyship and you both get to continue as dating partners and stop being all het up

b) let go of you as a dating partner and you both get to move on to being good friends and exes and stop being all het up.

c) you choose for YOURSELF and break it off yourself. You both get to move on to being good friends and exes and stop being all het up.

All 3 ways you both win -- no more being all het up, peace and calm can return to your lives, and enjoy each other as friends.

You both could be more assertive and decisive here and stop feeding the angsty by being INDECISIVE.

You could choose to keep it in the hamster wheel or just decide to step off. I suggest stepping off by making a decision. Going round and round does not serve either one of you well.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Does she have any platonic friends that she goes out with? I'm sure she must. Would you be "sitting home" fretting and freaking out if she told you she's going out with a friend for dinner? I mean, why wouldn't you be out and socializing, doing your own thing, while she is out with anyone, regardless of whether they are friends, lovers or whatnot? To sit at home moping and feeling sorry for yourself is to play the victim. Why torture yourself, and her, that way?

Create your own full life - she is a part of it but is not the whole of your life.
 
Gala Girl, perhaps, I am wrong, but I don't think she has cheated on him. I interpreted that as having occurred in past relationships, and so is choosing to be upfront with the OP.

Still, as usual, the rest of your analysis is quite sound. :)
 
You are right. I'm not sure who was cheated on exactly. :confused:

But whether she cheated on him or on previous partners in the past... OP might have trouble trusting her TODAY because of her past behavior.

I'm not getting "Yay! I trust my partner and totally feel safe here!" vibes. :(

Galagirl
 
GalaGirl said:
You are right. I'm not sure who was cheated on exactly. :confused:

But whether she cheated on him or on previous partners in the past... OP might have trouble trusting her TODAY because of her past behavior.

I'm not getting "Yay! I trust my partner and totally feel safe here!" vibes. :(

Galagirl
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Good point! Of course, the OP really doesn't have any trust (yet) for the whole poly concept, so that vibe probably colors everything. I am sure it is terribly distressing that they love each other but want such vastly different relationship configurations.
 
considering the complexitites that arise concerning people and their interests in sexuality, ... you can grow up trying to fit into what you've been told is the right way to live, ... but in the end if it's not the right way for you your going to be fighting between what you've been told is right and what is right for you, ... eventually something will give.

if your going to try to pretend your mono when your really poly, your going to be ashamed of the urge to want to be with another. but the urge will still be there, it's not going away and it's not satisfied, as this is a part of who you are, your not going to be satisfied.

JacobJT isn't sure if he's poly or mono, or if he could live either way
his lady knows she's poly.

if his lady in her previous relationship was with someone who accepted her poly nature (if she knew that was in her nature) then there is no difference about what would have happened, it just wouldn't have been behind her then-partners back, ... that's all that changes, there is no trust issue

what is a trust issue ?, i thought you were X, i wanted to believe you were X, i would not want or accept you to be anything other than X, ... and now i see your Y, you broke my trust! ... ??? WTF people, you've set yourself up to have trust issues because from day one you decided what you wanted the other person to be, it wasn't about accepting who they were, you decided who they were to be and finding out they were not that person you suddenly can't trust them ???

here's on, ... "the truth never hurts, it's the realization of the lies that hurt", ... those people that have trust issues, that's total BS, there's no trust issue, theres a major acceptance issue,

your projecting your wishes onto the other person and when they reach a point where they have to be themselves you blame them because you were not willing to accept them for who they are.

the OP knows what his ladies nature is, so what issues are there to be betrayed by ?

he can either accept her, or he can walk away, it's not about trust unless she's going to lie and still let her nature ring true. and it's a little late to lie about herself, at least where that's concerned.
 
ctivade cause

Thank you everyone for your responses. This has been an interesting journey the past few days and I'm glad this community is active enough to have given me some feedback during some down time. We've talked a couple more times, been out on a 'date' last night (we don't get much time alone outside of the house so that's exciting!), and got a little more clarity through some emailing so we could have the chance to be heard in full without the back and forth-ing that can happen when talking.

I think I communicated clearly what I needed to in terms of my own disposition and leanings, my worries, fears, and concerns, and also my willingness to be open towards and investigate what it would mean to have a poly relationship, and the fact that that may take some time and may or may not be fruitful but that I'm open to educating myself and being willing to at least look into it.

She was very receptive to all of this and very appreciative of the fact that I would even take the time and effort to learn about it, to consider it, and to want to have an ongoing dialogue about it with her. We both love each other very much, but I recognize that this could be a deal breaker for us, and that part sucks, but it is what it is. I don't want to make her miserable, nor her I. But we've definitely found some common ground on which to move forward. She was largely concerned with getting the subject out in the open and investigated to find out if I am even capable of considering the idea. She says she has also been considering if a monogamous relationship would ever work for her. She suspects not. I dunno, we have a large age gap, she's significantly younger than I. There's a part of me that wants to say "have you ever really even tried to make a monogamous relationship work?", it seems like most of her relations in the past have been brief and experimental. But I know that that's counter productive. I'd be lying if I said there isn't a part of me that wonders if she's just become fixated on this idea of being 'poly', but it really doesn't matter. If that's what she wants and feels she needs then nothing I feel about how she feels is really going to effect or change that, and I'm trying to stay in productive territory for us both!

So the big question now, "can I change?" lol! This is tremendously challenging territory for me (I shake a bit when considering it). But I really care for this woman, and if it's going to end or be ruined by this anyways I'd prefer to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all. Who knows, maybe this is the beginning of a whole new dimension in my love and personal life. Or maybe not. I've downloaded "The Ethical Slut", I'm familiar with Dossie and Janet's work from The Topping/Bottoming books, and also "Opening Up". I'm gonna start with the Ethical Slut because I like the writing style. I also looked at some of the worksheets on trust and jealousy on morethantwo. I'm freaking terrified by this all as I have intense past and current experiences of trust issues, jealousy, anger, attachment, resentment, possessiveness, etc. I'm starting to see that maybe this current situation has been presented in my life to have the opportunity to explore these and potentially pass through them and beyond them! I just don't know if I'm up for the challenge, or if poly is even right for me! But I'm willing to try. That's all I can do really. And she seems to respect and appreciate that.

Any and all advice for a broken up but brave newbie with strong mono tendencies is very much appreciated, and thank you for all your help so far!
 
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yes, you can change, ... "if it's important enough to you, you will find a way." ... that's true of everything in life :)
 
The others have given good advise about several aspects of this - I'll throw in my two cents on some parts that caught my eye.

JacobJT said:
She feels like she just wants to be 'normal' in order to be with me but she can't, and I feel like I just wish I could be 'poly' with her in the specific way she needs, but everything in me screams against it.
Click to expand...

It's healthy for people to want to be loved and accepted for who they are (their "normal") - I would continue in a relationship with someone with whom I couldn't be my natural self. This would be forced. This is real life - not a play - I wouldn't want to be cast into a role that someone else had for me.

You two should NOT try poly until you have really hammered out what parts of her "poly ideal" are really needs and which are preferences. Then figure out what part of you "screams against" which parts - and whether that is something that can be addressed or changed. Don't start adding people until the "screaming" abates - not fair for anyone. Some couples spend years figuring out how to poly in a way that works for them.

JacobJT said:
Let me be more specific. I'm open to exploring some situations together. Threesomes with another woman, threesomes with another man (I am straight, but our BDSM play goes into the realms of sexual degradation and the idea of seeing her fucked by more than 1 guy (me and another) is a (albeit risky) turn on), and that eventually I may be open to having more partners involved in our relationship.
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Sounds like you are OK with kinky shared sex play - or mutual Friends with Benefits. Sex stuff - ok, still requires rules and communication and can be lots of fun for everyone - but not really "relationship" type of stuff.

JacobJT said:
But she's fairly clear that what she really needs is her own separate relations with another man or two that are outside our relationship. She stated that we would probably need to meet, know each other, and talk about rules and such, but that the relationships would be individual and separate, and this scares the crap out of me.
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This is what many people mean when they think of poly (me included). Multiple separate relationships that build and grow at their own pace - most of this relationship building occurs OUTSIDE of the bedroom. Shared intimate talks, shared experiences, etc. She's had the opportunity to have that one-on-one relationship building with you, now she probably wants to have that opportunity with someone else.

Part of you contemplation/conversations should be about WHY this scares the crap out of you. Time management - that she will have less time for you - does need to be addressed. But the time she carves out for this can come from many places - paring back on other hobbies/commitments/time spent with OTHER friends and family, etc. (Love may be limitless but time is not.)

On HER side it is very important that she understands that the established relationship ALSO needs care and feeding if you two go down this road. She may need to cut other activities significantly in order to give you the EXTRA time and attention you may need during this transition (This part is often overlooked when people are caught up in NRE - and causes a lot of hurdles that could have been forseen).

JacobJT said:
So in my mind it's going to be me stressing, sitting at home, knowing she's screwing and bonding with another guy, while Im just stuck in my own crappy little world taking it.
Click to expand...

I'll re-direct you back to NYCindie's reply - to you, I think, it FEELS different if when she is gone she is screwing/bonding with another guy - but how is this really different than if she is gone because she is out with friends, family, work, hobbies, etc. Why are you "stuck" just because she is not there (for any of those reasons)? And why are you in a "crappy little world"? It's YOUR world - what do you want to change about it? Then maybe, while she is out you are "free to inhabit the wonderful interesting beautiful world" that you have created for yourself. (That you invite her to join you in, at times).

You may want to look into whether you have issues with co-dependency and address those before you go much further.

JacobJT said:
Is she being too rigid in the specifics of what she needs?
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She may be... This is a question that only the two of you can answer. You may want to dig around and read some of GalaGirl's posts about hard limits and soft limits. If she is not very experienced with poly, she may have this idealized version in her head about what poly "HAS" to look like - based on something that she read or saw that really appealed to her. She might want to poke around these boards herself - she may encounter people who "do poly" in ways that she has never even thought of - that appeal to her as much as her current model. (There are as many ways of doing poly as there are people doing it)


JacobJT said:
Am I being unreasonable in wanting to explore third person relationships together first?
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This is a very very common "want" for people who are new to the idea. It's not completely unreasonable but it IS highly problematic for many. Usually the "exploring together" first - involves sexual relationships, because a lot of people feel that that is the hard part (or the essential part) of relationships.

However, the BIGGEST problem that I see with the "explore together" is that (especially with people new to the idea) you are just throwing so many "firsts" into the mix that it seems you are going to have to adapt to all at the same time.

First time for her seeing someone else while you are in a relationship with her.
First time for you seeing someone else while you are in a relationship with her.
Your first time as metamour (watching her be in a relationship with someone else while you are with her)
Her first time as metamour (watching you be in a relationship with someone else while she is with you).
First time for her sharing a partner with you.
First time for you sharing a partner with her.
etc. etc. - add in all the "Firsts" for the new person - whew - that's just a lot to adapt to all at once.

Imagine you decide that you are going to take up 3 new hobbies that require practice and dedication - you are going to learn to cook, dance, and play the piano. - would you sign up for lessons for all three at the same time and practice each for an hour a day? Or would you sign up for one - practice it 3 hours a day for a while until you got the basics down? Then add the next - get a handle on it? Then add the third?

At the end of all this - would you be better at all three with one strategy vs. the other? Which would have caused you less stress? Which would have made you happier? Now, add in that failing to learn one means that the entire experiment blows up and you lose the opportunity to learn the other two.


JacobJT said:
I need help. We're in crises right now and we're both frazzled and stressed. All either of us seems to know is that we want to be with the other but can't be exactly what they want us to.

I need help!
Click to expand...

I think that you have come to a very good place for help in this. Search mono/poly for lots and lots of stories (and advise).

First step:

Stop.

Breathe.

Stop.

Breathe again.

It feels like you are crisis mode because you want to settle all this - right now! It's going to take a while, you will make mistakes, you will face hurdles you hadn't thought of. Life is like that.

Jane!
 
I know there are many titles out there but if you are doing books... here's a short and pithy one you might enjoy:

I don't know you if you have talked about one possible way to go -- where you open enough to talk poly, hear poly, share in her poly thoughts/feelings/crushes/fantasies and provide safe emotional space for her to share all that with you. And she closes enough to give YOU that safe emotional space in return. That could work as middle ground if her desire is only "understand me as a poly." But if it is "understand me" AND "I want to date others now" it might not. As you talk maybe keep figuring out what the core things are for her? And for you?

I do not know if it could help you, but more of my thoughts on (monoamorous + polymamorous) starts on post 6 in my blog thread.

Hang in there.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
While there has been much discussion about the mono / poly dynamic, IF you find that you can travel down the poly road a ways - and I have to give you tons of credit for being so open-minded about a concept that is so foreign to you - you may find you will want an additional relationship too.

My question for you is this: how would she feel about you dating other people? I know that may not be in the cards. Even if you come to terms with her polyamory, you may not want this. However, she needs to be prepared to do the same work herself that she is asking of you. Could be she has already done the work and would be okay with it. But given that the concept seems to be new to her - even if the tendencies to love more than one are not - she may need to think this through.
 
Thanks again everyone for your continued help. Please keep any tips and advice coming, every post has been so helpful to me!

bookbug said:
While there has been much discussion about the mono / poly dynamic, IF you find that you can travel down the poly road a ways - and I have to give you tons of credit for being so open-minded about a concept that is so foreign to you - you may find you will want an additional relationship too.

My question for you is this: how would she feel about you dating other people? I know that may not be in the cards. Even if you come to terms with her polyamory, you may not want this. However, she needs to be prepared to do the same work herself that she is asking of you. Could be she has already done the work and would be okay with it. But given that the concept seems to be new to her - even if the tendencies to love more than one are not - she may need to think this through.
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Thanks book bug. She seems not possessive herself, and honestly even though I had entertained the thought that she's just fixated on poly, things about her past and her general disposition say to me that I think it's likely her true orientation. That being said I wouldn't even be entertaining it without considering it a two way street. It may sound selfish, but if the love is stretching outward to new horizons for her, I am going to need to do that for myself as well, otherwise I doubt I will be that comfortable with the arrangement. Honestly right now she has very little time in her life even for our relationship (it's all obligation, she has a child, helps with family, works, etc. so it's not like she has hobbies or a bunch of extra time (which raises further questions in my mind about how this plays out)), and that's put a large strain on me as I like to spend lots of time thinking about/doing things for/being with my S.O. (though we text and talk a lot on the phone everyday). One of the things that I think could be a positive for me is not having to have all that pressure or attention being asked from one person.

But yeah, she has said that of course she'll feel a little jealousy if I start to date someone else initially, but she feels she can accept this and has claimed all along that she doesn't have a strong jealous tendency and never has (though she was the one that suggested that we 'not share' in the beginning of our relationship when we hadn't quite defined what we were yet, which was more I think a condition of her making sure that for now we were only being with each other until the subject was later discussed, but I digress).

Anyhow, part of me is having to mourn for the loss of the relationship that I 'thought' I might have with her. I'm not a traditionalist at all. I'm an artist/creative professional who's lived in the music world, marriage always seemed like a bad idea to me, but honestly I could've seen myself settling down and being with this woman (I know, projecting waaaaay too much, but it's the first time I've truly felt 100% that way). So I'm mourning that we'll never be the potential image that I had in my mind of a traditional monogamous couple. But also there's this new possibility of her teaching me how to love beyond jealousy and possessiveness, and open up to explore new avenues. Who knows. It's either gonna blow up in our face or not!

I'm still scared as hell. One thing that I can't stand though is the thought of her being poly and having multiple other relationships and me being mono and somehow still attached to the idea that she's my one relationship and somehow trying to ignore the fact that I'm only one of hers. I know that's my old way of thinking, but I'm just getting started down this road and have barely just scratched the surface of being able to open this book cover, let alone do the hard work of rewiring anything yet. So I'm still tangled with it all. In fact it's driving me mighty crazy. I wake up in the early morning thinking through it unable to go back to sleep, workout thinking through it, bothered about it pretty regularly throughout the day. Sometimes it's fine. Other times it's like "I just need an F*ing break!!!" but the thoughts keep coming. I hope I'll find a healthy pace with it soon, I'm just still in crises mode a bit right now!


Thanks again everyone, and please, keep any additional help coming!
 
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Good for you. You seem like you are really trying and are willing to accept whatever may come of it.

You guys might want to make the plan for poly hell pitfalls:

Here's some more links apart from the first one I listed before:

Non Violent Communication might help too. Look up Marshall Rosenberg's work.

YMMV of course. Remember you don't have to rush in this, and if you come to find it is not your cup of tea you can stop.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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