Poly for 2 years, new to living together and having a hard time with overnights.

AlexPortnoy

New member
My primary girlfriend of two years and I moved in together in March. Since then she's met two partners for dates that lead to sex.

Since April 20, she's had three overnights with one of the guys. The first over night troubled me because she didn't text or anything and I had to send a panicky text at 6:30 a.m. the next day to find out if she was okay. She was and she hurried home but was hungover until noon. I was pissed. Also, we'd not had sex for 10 days prior so I was doubly pissed. I'm a score keeper in that regard and one of our rules is no sex with others if we're not having sex, too.

She was apologetic. It was the first time she'd spent the night with a local lover and I just wasn't prepared for it. Things got better and then she scheduled another date with the same guy for a week later. This time she said she'd be home late, but she would not stay the night. I said don't make promises you can't keep and told her regardless I would not expect her home until the next day. Nonetheless, she insisted she'd be home late that night.

She came home at 7 a.m. the next morning. I was not happy, but somewhat better. And again, I said if you're going to stay the night don't even hint you might come home. I'd rather plan for her not being around than wait up on the mistaken idea she'll come home.

I had a late night at work last night and didn't get home until 11 p.m. She'd told me earlier there was a chance she might meet that same guy again. When I arrived home, she took off for his place. Again, she insisted she'd be home but perhaps late. Again, I said don't make promises you can't keep. And it's 12 noon now and I've not seen her.

I'm actually less upset now than I've been in the past. I've learned this is her MO with this guy. But should I be upset? Is she really breaking any polyamory rule? It should be noted, I've not seen anyone aside from her since 2013 due to the imbalance of available and cool women in our city.

Any advice for a goofball like me?
 
The "polyamory rule" is dependent on the rules you and she have established for your specific polyship, in my opinion. I don't know that there is a generalized rule. Situations like this are specific to the people involved in the situation.

It sounds, however, like she is violating rules that you and she have agreed on. And that she's breaking promises to you. To me, that means you and she need to have a serious discussion about what you are and are not okay with in reference to her seeing other people, and you need to set some boundaries. If you aren't okay with her spending the night with this guy, say so. If you're okay with it as long as she's honest that that's what's going to happen, say so. But also be prepared for her to agree to the boundaries and then break them, since it sounds like that's what has been happening. And if it continues happening, you're going to have to decide whether to just accept that she isn't sticking to the agreement, or whether to do something else.
 
The "polyamory rule" is dependent on the rules you and she have established for your specific polyship, in my opinion.

Thanks for your insight, KC43.

She returned home shortly after I posted this and again was sorry. Told me she loves me more when she can come home to me etc. And I know she would never leave me for this new guy for many reasons. But still. I want to be cool with overnights but I'll admit it's not easy. I'd be happy as a clam if she said she was gonna go out and could reliably return home and wake up in bed beside me. And, on a side note, when she called on her way home after lunch today the first thing she wanted to talk about was her kids. I humored her, but she could tell I was a little bothered. Compared to her previous recent overnights, this one was nothing. Also, she's hungover again so I'm doing the lion's share with kids today. Hooray.

Is it wrong of me to say I'm not totally cool with full overnights at this point? It's never really been a rule we've discussed in great detail, until recently. I don't want to spoil the party, but I hate being miserable.

On another side note, she's all "you should go out with somebody tonight." I don't really have anyone who's readily available on an hour's notice and I don't know if she totally gets that. Most of the women in our town want monogamous LTRs and poly guys like me as though we're filled with disease. Dudes in this community don't have such worries, it seems.

Our only real hard and fast rule is no sex with others if we're not having sex ourselves. She's been pretty good on this lately, but she's bypassed it before when it's been inconvenient. Which I hate and she knows.

I love her, she's great, but I've learned since living with her - if she wants to do something, she does it and worries about consequences later.
 
It's all well and good that she's sorry and loves coming home to you, but it sounds to me like she's trampling on some of your personal boundaries. She might not be aware of those boundaries, or might not understand how important they are; I'd prefer to believe one of those is the case rather than her knowing and not caring, and from your posts I'm not entirely certain what her reasoning might be.

If there are kids involved, especially, it might be important to set a line about overnights, whether that's "no overnights" or "overnights when the kids aren't here" or whatever. I don't know how old the kids are, but the absence of their mom, and her being unable to care for them because she's recovering from a night out, might lead to some pretty uncomfortable questions from them.

Hubby and I, when we opened our marriage, set a firm "no overnights" rule. To us, since at that point we were in agreement that we didn't want any more involvement with anyone beyond a friends-with-benefits situation, the idea of falling asleep/waking up with anyone other than each other felt like going too far. A couple of months before I came out to Hubby as polyamorous and admitted my feelings for Guy, Hubby made it clear that he didn't mind if I spent a night with Guy, especially if I was out late with him.

Despite that, I have yet to actually spend a night with Guy; even on my recent visit with him, which included two nights, we didn't sleep together in the literal sense because he was working overnight shifts, so I slept while he was at work and he slept while I was out exploring the area. Even though he and I officially have a relationship, not just an FWB thing, and even though Hubby's okay with it, I'm still not comfortable having overnights with Guy.
 
Also, we'd not had sex for 10 days prior so I was doubly pissed. I'm a score keeper in that regard and one of our rules is no sex with others if we're not having sex, too.

Some couples have rules that work for them, but this one seems like it's building in some real problems for you.

A sex drive is a funny thing. Your wife might not be in to sex with you right now but might be in to sex with someone else. Setting up a "tit-for-tat" rule regarding someone elses sex drive (your wife's) is unlikely to work. Consider the alternatives you are building in if she wants to have sex with someone else... she needs to force herself to have sex with you? This is kind of a trap door VETO rule (if x occurs, then VETO).

Do as you will but I recommend taking a look at your motivation for needing to control her sexuality in this way. I suggest that letting this go and actually dealing with your insecurity will get you further than trying to restrict her.

Nonetheless, she insisted she'd be home late that night. She came home at 7 a.m. the next morning.

This would strongly impact my feelings about a partner. Someone who clearly has no impulse control and hands out promises they have no interest in keeping is not someone I want around me on the regular.

This isn't a poly thing, this is just a "being a reliable person" thing. I don't care what the situation is, someone who has a proven history of being totally full of shit won't last with me for long.

Your alternatives seem to be to learn to be ok with her dishonesty or tell her to hit the bricks. What's your plan?
 
Is it wrong of me to say I'm not totally cool with full overnights at this point? It's never really been a rule we've discussed in great detail, until recently. I don't want to spoil the party, but I hate being miserable.

Keep an eye on why you have a rule in place that governs someone elses actions. Generally speaking this type of rule is put in place to avoid dealing with an emotion, in this case, it makes you "miserable".

What is it exactly about these overnights that makes you miserable? Is it her total disregard for her agreements with you and the fact that she's not pulling her weight on the homefront? If so, that's not about overnights, that's about her not giving a rats ass about following through with what she says she's going to do... I am skeptical that giving her another rule to break is really going to solve this problem.
 
Alex, I've been exactly where you are. On my blog over in the Life Stories section, I've given a play-by-play of what I went through during overnights that my partner Audrey went on. Sitting there while she's out on a date...one of the worst things is not knowing when she's coming back. The uncertainty of thinking you might get a text or a call or some update...or that she could be home at any minute can fuck with your head.

Your mileage may vary, but I've gotten to a point where I can even help her get ready for her dates (offer clothing suggestions etc.) or drive her there and pick her up. It wasn't easy and sometimes I still struggle a bit. But there's hope that you will continually get better at handling it. I've found that when I have enough going on in my own life, counting the seconds until she gets home is much less of a problem. Being good with being alone, I'm learning, is about having a plan for who you want to be. Everyone has pursuits, problems and interests that they want to address. Do that. And do it for you own self-improvement. The other great upside is that the more interesting pursuits you have in your own life, the more dynamic and attractive you are.

As far as her breaking your agreed upon rule, that's not so cut and dry. Yes, there are safety issues and a breaking her word issue, but don't let this be a dysfunctional way of expressing your unease at her going out on dates. When Audrey did this exact thing the first time, we sat and had a long talk about how it made me feel and how it could have been dangerous for her. Looking back, I did have some valid points, but if I'm 110% honest, a tiny bit of it was just me trying to deal with the unease of being alone while she was out having fun sexy time. That's unfair.

It's possible that this is simply not a rule she can or wants to live by, but can't tell you. Frankly, where she goes and what she does is up to her. Totally her choice and telling her what to do and when to do it can be highly controlling. You've already communicated that this is a problem and she keeps breaking it, but trying again...and really impressing on her why this troubles you is critical so it's worth another try.

On the issue of the sexual scorekeeping, I have to agree that if you try that, you're not going to get the result you want. What you're effectively doing is making sex with you into a chore she has to perform in order to go have sex with the other guy. You don't want sex with you to be a chore. If you're having sex less, you can either sit and have a discussion about it or let her work through it. You've got to remember that new lovers are always going to incite a fever in someone. That NRE (new relationship energy) can last for varying periods of time. But you know what? She'll come back and remember how great you are. Things just go in cycles.
 
Vanquish gave awesome advice.

Do not keep score. My husband Butch did that early on and all it did was make me resent him and dislike intimacy with him.
 
I love her, she's great, but I've learned since living with her - if she wants to do something, she does it and worries about consequences later.

The first two things in that list are just peachy, but it's the third one that seems to be the defining characteristic of your relationship in its current state. Only you can decide if the first two things are worth the price of the third.

From what you've said so far, she's behaving more like a woman recently divorced/separated who's moved in with a relative than someone who's just moved in with her long-term lover. You're at home watching her kids while she's out playing the field like a carefree teenager. Did you also provide nanny services while the two of you lived apart, or is this a new thing?

People make mistakes. Mistakes are a learning opportunity. If she's repeating the same 'mistakes' over and over, they're not mistakes as much as they are willful behavior reframed as an innocent boo-boo. Many boo-boos in a row are what we call a 'pattern.' If we look at a pattern, we can see a 'design.'

It sounds like you're setting yourself up for a long roller coaster ride my friend. A relationship that has to be constantly patched up from consistent misbehavior is a lot like trying to get somewhere in a leaky rowboat. One spends so much time bailing out the water that one often forgets the original purpose of the trip.

Maybe she'll eventually settle down a bit and start taking your feelings and concerns in to consideration instead of just giving lip service to them after the fact. Maybe not. Regardless, you either need to stand up for what you want from the relationship or start charging her an hourly rate for baby-sitting.

Just don't serve her the liver you violated behind the billboard for dinner. That's just tacky... ;)
 
"I'm a score keeper in that regard and one of our rules is no sex with others if we're not having sex, too."

Score keeping is almost always a terrible idea, and that seems like an awful rule. I find rules are most often broken in polyamory when the rules are unreasonable. Your relationship should be yours; if you aren't having sex, fine, fix that. But don't care compare it to others.
 
What is it exactly about these overnights that makes you miserable? Is it her total disregard for her agreements with you and the fact that she's not pulling her weight on the homefront? If so, that's not about overnights, that's about her not giving a rats ass about following through with what she says she's going to do... I am skeptical that giving her another rule to break is really going to solve this problem.

Honestly, loneliness is what first drives me into the misery. But once there, I start thinking "Hey, I do a lot around here, in our relationship so she can go out with someone else on weekend nights?" The idea of giving her a curfew sounds like it could relieve me some stress, I would feel like a dick imposing it. If she wants to be here with me, I want her to be here with me. If she would rather spend the night out with someone else, then I need to accept that.
 
Some couples have rules that work for them, but this one seems like it's building in some real problems for you.

A sex drive is a funny thing. Your wife might not be in to sex with you right now but might be in to sex with someone else. Setting up a "tit-for-tat" rule regarding someone elses sex drive (your wife's) is unlikely to work. Consider the alternatives you are building in if she wants to have sex with someone else... she needs to force herself to have sex with you? This is kind of a trap door VETO rule (if x occurs, then VETO).

Do as you will but I recommend taking a look at your motivation for needing to control her sexuality in this way. I suggest that letting this go and actually dealing with your insecurity will get you further than trying to restrict her.



This would strongly impact my feelings about a partner. Someone who clearly has no impulse control and hands out promises they have no interest in keeping is not someone I want around me on the regular.

This isn't a poly thing, this is just a "being a reliable person" thing. I don't care what the situation is, someone who has a proven history of being totally full of shit won't last with me for long.

Your alternatives seem to be to learn to be ok with her dishonesty or tell her to hit the bricks. What's your plan?

Thanks for the advice and I wish it was that simple for me. I was in a sexless, monogamous relationship for 13 years where we'd have sex maybe a handful of times. The whole thing caused me to place an unreal value on sex and lead to a lot of resentment and self-doubt. This lingers on. And my current girlfriend is very aware of this. Conversely, she's said the closer and safer she feels with someone the less sexually desirable they are to her. This is a clear fork in the road for both of us.

She went out last night, I don't think she realizes she goes out pretty frequently. She's still asleep. I'm cleaning the house, getting kids fed and thinking about going to the gym. But in the back of my mind someone is there saying "You've not had sex in eight days." And it drives me batty. Another responder stated score keeping is a bad idea - I fully agree. But a fish doesn't know he's wet. If I could not keep score, I wouldn't. It's like seeing a car crash, you can't unsee it.
 
Vanquish gave awesome advice.

Do not keep score. My husband Butch did that early on and all it did was make me resent him and dislike intimacy with him.

I agree. Any tips? Because I don't like keeping score either. But I don't like being taken for granted and that's how I always feel when I'm not getting laid. I've said all this to her, so at least that's out of the way.
 
Alex, I've been exactly where you are. On my blog over in the Life Stories section, I've given a play-by-play of what I went through during overnights that my partner Audrey went on. Sitting there while she's out on a date...one of the worst things is not knowing when she's coming back. The uncertainty of thinking you might get a text or a call or some update...or that she could be home at any minute can fuck with your head.

Your mileage may vary, but I've gotten to a point where I can even help her get ready for her dates (offer clothing suggestions etc.) or drive her there and pick her up. It wasn't easy and sometimes I still struggle a bit. But there's hope that you will continually get better at handling it. I've found that when I have enough going on in my own life, counting the seconds until she gets home is much less of a problem. Being good with being alone, I'm learning, is about having a plan for who you want to be. Everyone has pursuits, problems and interests that they want to address. Do that. And do it for you own self-improvement. The other great upside is that the more interesting pursuits you have in your own life, the more dynamic and attractive you are.

As far as her breaking your agreed upon rule, that's not so cut and dry. Yes, there are safety issues and a breaking her word issue, but don't let this be a dysfunctional way of expressing your unease at her going out on dates. When Audrey did this exact thing the first time, we sat and had a long talk about how it made me feel and how it could have been dangerous for her. Looking back, I did have some valid points, but if I'm 110% honest, a tiny bit of it was just me trying to deal with the unease of being alone while she was out having fun sexy time. That's unfair.

It's possible that this is simply not a rule she can or wants to live by, but can't tell you. Frankly, where she goes and what she does is up to her. Totally her choice and telling her what to do and when to do it can be highly controlling. You've already communicated that this is a problem and she keeps breaking it, but trying again...and really impressing on her why this troubles you is critical so it's worth another try.

On the issue of the sexual scorekeeping, I have to agree that if you try that, you're not going to get the result you want. What you're effectively doing is making sex with you into a chore she has to perform in order to go have sex with the other guy. You don't want sex with you to be a chore. If you're having sex less, you can either sit and have a discussion about it or let her work through it. You've got to remember that new lovers are always going to incite a fever in someone. That NRE (new relationship energy) can last for varying periods of time. But you know what? She'll come back and remember how great you are. Things just go in cycles.

Great advice and I feel you've been to many of the same places as me.

The score keeping. Please, I really need some help with this. I was in a sexless monogamous marriage for a long time. It ate at me for years and probably still does. I associate(d) sex with love and that if I wasn't having sex what the other person really was telling me was I was not loved. I still think that way no matter how many therapy sessions I have.

And I see the error with my current GF and actually have tried to play the laid back "I don't need sex if you don't" role this week. It's been okay. But as she's still in bed this morning after going out last night and I'm doing all the domestic duties again this morning, that voice in my head is getting louder and I know I'm a total dick (and not sexy) when that voice takes over.
 
The first two things in that list are just peachy, but it's the third one that seems to be the defining characteristic of your relationship in its current state. Only you can decide if the first two things are worth the price of the third.

From what you've said so far, she's behaving more like a woman recently divorced/separated who's moved in with a relative than someone who's just moved in with her long-term lover. You're at home watching her kids while she's out playing the field like a carefree teenager. Did you also provide nanny services while the two of you lived apart, or is this a new thing?

People make mistakes. Mistakes are a learning opportunity. If she's repeating the same 'mistakes' over and over, they're not mistakes as much as they are willful behavior reframed as an innocent boo-boo. Many boo-boos in a row are what we call a 'pattern.' If we look at a pattern, we can see a 'design.'

It sounds like you're setting yourself up for a long roller coaster ride my friend. A relationship that has to be constantly patched up from consistent misbehavior is a lot like trying to get somewhere in a leaky rowboat. One spends so much time bailing out the water that one often forgets the original purpose of the trip.

Maybe she'll eventually settle down a bit and start taking your feelings and concerns in to consideration instead of just giving lip service to them after the fact. Maybe not. Regardless, you either need to stand up for what you want from the relationship or start charging her an hourly rate for baby-sitting.

Just don't serve her the liver you violated behind the billboard for dinner. That's just tacky... ;)

I feel like I've been on a roller coaster already. I love her, I really, really do. But so much drama, it seems. I got in from work last night just as she was heading out for the night. We'd texted all day often about domestic duties, boring stuff. But there was also a lot of "I miss yous" and "I love yous." So when I walked in, the first thing she mentioned was two different long, lost previous sex partners reached out to her today and asked about meeting up sometime. First thing out of her mouth. I didn't say anything. Just said "I'm going to sit on the patio and read, I'm tired." She left for the club a little later.
 
Yuck! Unlike other posters, I'd say you've got the short end of the stick. Hardly any sex, and weekends caring for HER kids while she sleeps off last night's drunk and fuckathon?

Um, do you feel like you're being used? Because, IMO, you are.

I also got bugged in the past when my gf wouldn't feel like sex for a week or 2, but would get aroused chatting with men online. I did contrast and compare. I know that is wrong. I knew I just needed to help her work on feeling more sexual. Which she really did want to do. And over a few years, now, she has a pretty good strong libido. We had to dig deep into what was dampening her desire to have real sex instead of getting her fun from merely talking about sex with near strangers.

So, it can be done. She's been in therapy 5 1/2 years and also on anti-depressants. I hope you two can resolve this. Have you had therapy around your past relationship, that was sexless against your will?
 
I feel like I've been on a roller coaster already. I love her, I really, really do. But so much drama, it seems. I got in from work last night just as she was heading out for the night. We'd texted all day often about domestic duties, boring stuff. But there was also a lot of "I miss yous" and "I love yous." So when I walked in, the first thing she mentioned was two different long, lost previous sex partners reached out to her today and asked about meeting up sometime. First thing out of her mouth. I didn't say anything. Just said "I'm going to sit on the patio and read, I'm tired." She left for the club a little later.

Alex, please do yourself a favor and re-read all of your responses to the various posters. Your story is there. You know what's going on and you don't like it. You're her unpaid domestic help and probable ATM (I assume with her partying schedule that she doesn't work or is minimally employed). You're paying to do work that you should be getting paid for while she scampers out the door for a little mo' of la vida loca.

That little voice inside your head that makes you 'act like a dick?' That's the voice you should be listening to. It's telling you that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. It's telling you, much like she's telling you, that you're not her 'boyfriend,' or her 'poly partner.' It's telling you that you are actually her 'slave.' The best way to describe your current relationship is as a D/s arrangement. This does work for some, but if that was what you really wanted you wouldn't be here asking advice.

What it boils down to is that you've got all the negatives of a domestic relationship and none of the positives. You say that you were in a horrible sexless marriage for 13 years. Why then are you here trying to figure out how to make peace with being in yet another one?

You mention 'drama.' Is there drama when you keep your mouth shut and act like a good little slave, or does the drama ensue when you speak up for yourself? I suspect that everything's A-OK when you keep your mouth shut because she's getting what she wants hassle-free. Reacting to someone's poor behavior is not 'causing problems,' it's a natural and healthy response.

Conversely, she's said the closer and safer she feels with someone the less sexually desirable they are to her.

There's the key to sex with this woman, she's told you herself and saved me the trouble of pointing it out. You're in her 'safe zone,' and don't qualify as a sex partner because of it. Your polar opposite is 'random stranger at the club' which is what really inspires her trouser tingles. Kudos to her for actually saying it out loud, but seriously, what more do you need to fully realize your place in her life? Is she really such a Magical Mattress Monkey that you'd want to play such games for a roll in the hay?

My advice? Run like the wind man. U-haul your ass right out of her life. Sure, that will probably fire up her gonads again since you're 'getting away,' but don't succumb to the inevitable magical rekindling of her supposed feelings for you. Her feelings will die down once again when you're back at the campfire. Move, change your numbers, whatever it takes to avoid her. There are indeed many fish in the proverbial sea, it's time to throw this one back. Spend your time and energy finding someone who wants you in her life for something other than mere utility.
 
Is she really Poly

I would have to question rather this person she is seeing knows that she is poly. Why can't she go out, have a great time, and bring the person back to your place. At least you would know she is safe. Is that an option?
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 26
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Originally Posted by AlexPortnoy View Post
I feel like I've been on a roller coaster already. I love her, I really, really do. But so much drama, it seems. I got in from work last night just as she was heading out for the night. We'd texted all day often about domestic duties, boring stuff. But there was also a lot of "I miss yous" and "I love yous." So when I walked in, the first thing she mentioned was two different long, lost previous sex partners reached out to her today and asked about meeting up sometime. First thing out of her mouth. I didn't say anything. Just said "I'm going to sit on the patio and read, I'm tired." She left for the club a little later.
Alex, please do yourself a favor and re-read all of your responses to the various posters. Your story is there. You know what's going on and you don't like it. You're her unpaid domestic help and probable ATM (I assume with her partying schedule that she doesn't work or is minimally employed). You're paying to do work that you should be getting paid for while she scampers out the door for a little mo' of la vida loca.

That little voice inside your head that makes you 'act like a dick?' That's the voice you should be listening to. It's telling you that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. It's telling you, much like she's telling you, that you're not her 'boyfriend,' or her 'poly partner.' It's telling you that you are actually her 'slave.' The best way to describe your current relationship is as a D/s arrangement. This does work for some, but if that was what you really wanted you wouldn't be here asking advice.

What it boils down to is that you've got all the negatives of a domestic relationship and none of the positives. You say that you were in a horrible sexless marriage for 13 years. Why then are you here trying to figure out how to make peace with being in yet another one?

You mention 'drama.' Is there drama when you keep your mouth shut and act like a good little slave, or does the drama ensue when you speak up for yourself? I suspect that everything's A-OK when you keep your mouth shut because she's getting what she wants hassle-free. Reacting to someone's poor behavior is not 'causing problems,' it's a natural and healthy response.

Quote:
Conversely, she's said the closer and safer she feels with someone the less sexually desirable they are to her.
There's the key to sex with this woman, she's told you herself and saved me the trouble of pointing it out. You're in her 'safe zone,' and don't qualify as a sex partner because of it. Your polar opposite is 'random stranger at the club' which is what really inspires her trouser tingles. Kudos to her for actually saying it out loud, but seriously, what more do you need to fully realize your place in her life? Is she really such a Magical Mattress Monkey that you'd want to play such games for a roll in the hay?

My advice? Run like the wind man. U-haul your ass right out of her life. Sure, that will probably fire up her gonads again since you're 'getting away,' but don't succumb to the inevitable magical rekindling of her supposed feelings for you. Her feelings will die down once again when you're back at the campfire. Move, change your numbers, whatever it takes to avoid her. There are indeed many fish in the proverbial sea, it's time to throw this one back. Spend your time and energy finding someone who wants you in her life for something other than mere utility.

The above response from Cosmo Mckinley says it all. Everyone gave you an excellent response, but quite frankly you are being a patsy. You ended a long sexless marriage, and now you are getting minimal if any sex as some kind of reward once in a while for being a good boy and letting her live the single life while you take care of everything else. I may have missed the financial situation, but please dont tell me you are also footing more or all of the financial responsibilities.

You may be calling yourself poly, but the only thing poly in my opinion about it is she is telling you who she is banging.
And violating every agreement while she is at it. You might want to look up the word "cuckold" because that is where you are heading if you don't put on your big boy pants and if that means getting rid of her, do it!!!

If you want to stay in this relationship, which i can't understand why you would, I'd make her go with you to a swingers club just so you can get laid. She owes you that much.

Sorry for being tough if i was. Good luck. Hope you figure something out.
 
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