Poly problem #1

missmindful

New member
For those who don't know me, I just began a relationship with the Professor, who is married to Nadia. We have been seeing each other a month and 1/2, I just met his wife, and we seem to have the start of something special. I feel that especially in this relationship, what happens early on will set a precedent for how the relationship dynamic will go. Being so new to poly, I have done my research on being the "second", and there is not a ton out there. I read the seconds bill of rights, and I am pretty sure that this is something I want to address early on. I am hoping to hear some perspective from those who have been there in some capacity, if not as a second themselves.

So here is what happened: Nadia told the Professor that she would be away for the weekend for a camping trip. I made plans for childcare to spend Saturday night with the Professor at their house and we would run Sunday morning. On Tuesday, the night we all met, Nadia and the Prof told me that her trip was cancelled. He said that regardless, we could still go out to dinner. I understand him not being able to host. I am closing on a condo nest week, so I am not able to host until then, but he did suggest we could still go out to dinner. So, on thursday, i asked him again if we were still on for Saturday dinner. He said he had to talk to Nadia but he thought she might have a family thing. . I asked again yesterday, and did not get a reply. I had a feeling it was not happening, and asked again this morning and got a reply at about 11 that he had to do something with her family. I feel that this is just rude. For someone who prides himself on communication and respect, I don't feel as if I got that from him.

I told him I did not like it. We are in the midst of talking about it now. He said that he does not see it as being a precedent for our relationship because he doesn't see this happening again. He blamed Nadia's plans changing for throwing things off. I personally don't see why he did not tell her he had plans with me. I also do not really understand why just because her plans changed, ours have to? And lastly, I was given no choice. I was just told at the very last minute that our plans were off. Is this going to happen every time her plans change or she has a bad day, etc? It happened once before at the very beginning, and I shrugged it off as we has only been on a happy hour date. I dont think it will work if her needs always trump mine just because she is the wife. I have to arrange childcare. I now have childcare, and it is most likely too late to find anything else to do on a Saturday night. I feel that he showed me no respect for my time and no regard for my feelings. I am waiting to see what he says, but I am feeling a little deflated at the moment.

As usual, thank you for reading. Any questions, concerns, personal stories and advice are truly welcomed.

Miiss M
 
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Trust me this will happen again.

I don't date married poly men for this reason
 
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The schedule thing will happen again. And, probably: You will do it to a partner sometime yourself.

He's not communicating well with his partners about scheduling and commitments, with the result that he assumes his plans with you automatically flex in response to changes in Nadia's plans. It is easy for monogamously married people to get in the habit of assuming that they are, by default, a single scheduling unit, and that each person only has time for outside activities when the other person is unavailable. That's a pretty dumb habit, to be honest.

He has to decide how interested he is in changing that.
 
This will happen again. I would absolutely tell him that this isn't cool. You had plans with him. He decided his wife's changing schedule was more important than you. I think he's telling you clearly where you stand. You need to either push back, or accept it. You need to decide what your limit of bullshit is and set the bar there.

I wouldn't blame his wife for this at all. It was absolutely his call to cancel on you.
 
Thank you all for your swift replies. I am quite sure that you are all right, that this will happen again.

This will happen again. I would absolutely tell him that this isn't cool. You had plans with him. He decided his wife's changing schedule was more important than you. I think he's telling you clearly where you stand. You need to either push back, or accept it. You need to decide what your limit of bullshit is and set the bar there.

I wouldn't blame his wife for this at all. It was absolutely his call to cancel on you.

I am with you. I do not blame her at all. I agree that he is sending me a message that she is more important, and frankly, that is really not cool. I just got his response and he said, " My mistake was telling you that we could definitely go out to dinner. I should have said MAYBE we could go out to dinner." He missed the freaking point completely. Now I am just pissed.

I thin you should tell him everything you wrote here and gauge his reaction.
I did, he did not answer any of my questions- Why did you not tell your wife we had plans? Just because her plans were cancelled, why do our plans have to be cancelled? and Do you understand that I have childcare now for nothing? He replied by saying what his mistake was as I wrote above. This was all in text. I sent him a message asking to talk on the phone. We will see. That was about an hour ago. I do think he is sending a very clear message.
 
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We talked on the phone. He said the right things. He listened to my complaints. I told him that I felt that he missed the point. That he and I had plans for tonight. When her plans cancelled and he was unable to host a sleepover, he suggested dinner. He never cancelled our plans and in my eyes he was sending me a clear message that she is more important than I am. He assured me that this is not the case. He said he can see how it seemed that way and he agreed he did not handle it well, and he apologized. I did ask him if this would continue to happen whenever her plans changed and he did say no- that he could see that that would not be fair or healthy. I told him it was a red flag, and I was most upset because I felt that he did not respect my time or my feelings, and that I really expect more from him. He said that I should. We talked a bit about communication and then changed the subject. I think I might just start dating again. I can continue to see him, and it might slow things down a bit and give me some perspective. Time will tell.
 
What a bummer! After everything seemed to be going so well.

a) Nobody's perfect. Have you taken off your NRE glasses? On your other thread, the situation sounded almost too good to be true. I advised you to have hope and [the willingness to] trust. Maybe you'd already scented something that you hadn't revealed to us there?

b) The above does not mean "bail out!"

c) Communicate, communicate, communicate! Tell him exactly how this has affected you. (I know that you have, but texting. This needs to be dealt with more thoroughly. He has to take it seriously.)

d) You have given this guy the name Professor. That sounded a warning bell with me as soon as I first read it: I wondered if you were slipping into the role of Pupil or Disciple. You are a mature, experienced woman. He has as much to learn from you (including good manners) as you from him.

e) There was a comic strip in the UK called "Clive" [later changed its name to that of Clive's much younger sister, Augusta]. After +/- 40 years, I still remember (among others) one 4-panel strip. Clive and his girlfriend are walking along. [Background: he's in this relationship by default. She's much more enthusiastic about it than he.] She invites him to something-or-other. [pause, worried look on Clive's face, then:] Clive: "I can't. I'm afraid that I have a subsequent engagement." She [disappointed but accepting his excuse]: "Oh." [While Clive smiles, relieved.]

Maybe this [previous but not 100% certain?] engagement with Prof's wife was really important. Frankly, I don't think that you have a right to demand equal billing with her in his life. Not unless that has been agreed between the 3 of you. And it hasn't, has it? As you imply, the problems of being a secondary. You either get used to them (this does not mean accepting being treated shabbily: it means accepting that you're not #1... not even tied for #1*) or you find someone who wants you as their primary.

No: what I see as his big "crimes" here are:

a) not making 100% clear to you that your date was only provisional;

b) not giving you plenty of time to change your plans/expectations;

c) in case that thing with his wife was "a subsequent engagement", lying and being a coward.

d) in case that thing with his wife was "a subsequent engagement", and it wasn't of paramount importance, then yes, I agree with you: he should have honoured his agreement with you.

Your idol [ideal] has feet of clay.

Things to talk about with him.

* How would you feel if he expected to have (at this early stage of your relationship) equal billing with your 3 children in your life?

[edited: The above was written before I read your latest update.]
 
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I think I might just start dating again. I can continue to see him, and it might slow things down a bit and give me some perspective. Time will tell.
Oh, were you actively dating and then stopped seeing others when you met the Professor and clicked so well right away? How monogamous of you! ;) Seriously, though, it's way too early to be exclusive with him - and he's married and poly, anyway! You're still getting to know each other. Date others, have a good time, and don't put all your eggs in one basket too soon, if you want to eventually be exclusive - at least not until your relationship is firmly established and you've built a foundation of trust.
 
Oh, were you actively dating and then stopped seeing others when you met the Professor and clicked so well right away? How monogamous of you! Seriously, though, it's way too early to be exclusive with him - and he's married and poly, anyway! You're still getting to know each other. Date others, have a good time, and don't put all your eggs in one basket too soon, if you want to eventually be exclusive - at least not until your relationship is firmly established and you've built a foundation of trust.
__________________

Haha. Old habits die hard I guess? I stopped dating when I started sleeping with him, which was less than a month ago. To be honest, I do not have a lot of free time. I would rather be having sex with him and getting to know him when I have a night off. But, as we saw today, he is not always available. Plus, I seem to get A LOT of messages on OKC, and most of them are awful. It gets tedious. I also rarely meet anyone I like. I went on so many dates before I met the Professor, and I did not click with anyone. It was nice to have a break from it for awhile and just be taken out to fancy dinners in great company with mind blowing sex afterwards. The NRE thing is still totally happening. I can only imagine that I will be comparing every date to him and wishing that I was at home in bed with him. But, I think I agree with you, I do think it may be too soon to be exclusive with him because he is married and poly. He has expressed to me that he thinks I should date him exclusively at the beginning before I start dating others, if that is what I choose to do, and he also said he would feel jealous if he knew I were going out with someone with whom I had interest. I don't know. I really knew next to nothing about polyamory six weeks ago aside from the guys who approached me on OKC, none of whom I had any interest.

You have given this guy the name Professor. That sounded a warning bell with me as soon as I first read it: I wondered if you were slipping into the role of Pupil or Disciple. You are a mature, experienced woman. He has as much to learn from you (including good manners) as you from him.

Haha. You are funny. I named him the Professor because he is in education, and he is very put together, likes expensive clothes and is very handsome, and well spoken like The Professor on Gilligans Island. :) He is quite dominant, and I am a natural submissive, (not kink or BDSM) so maybe we should try out that pupil/disciplinarian thing. Could be fun.
 
He has expressed to me that he thinks I should date him exclusively at the beginning before I start dating others, if that is what I choose to do, and he also said he would feel jealous if he knew I were going out with someone with whom I had interest.
That is a red flag! So he has double standards. You are supposed to be there waiting for him while he lives his life with his wife. Plus, the thing with the scheduling - wife is number one in every case. Uh oh... Did you promise him to be exclusive?
I don't know. I really knew next to nothing about polyamory six weeks ago aside from the guys who approached me on OKC, none of whom I had any interest.
Please, please educate yourself! This forum has a tremendous amount of information for you. Take your time and read! Anything and everything that catches your eye... There are so many ways to lead a poly life. Try to figure your own way.

So, you have an active OKC profile... Keep it open, see what comes your way. If you happen to find someone that interests you, go for it! Have fun meeting new people!
 
You might want to get the book More Than Two. There is also one called Opening Up, which is more geared to mono couples going poly, and covers swinging as well as polyamory.
 
He has expressed to me that he thinks I should date him exclusively at the beginning before I start dating others, if that is what I choose to do, and he also said he would feel jealous if he knew I were going out with someone with whom I had interest.

Uh-oh, that is another red flag for you right there! Very bad sign, I hate to say.

Think about it - he's poly and partnered, but doesn't want you dating anyone else? How can he possibly expect that? This is an indicator of couple privilege and of a control freak who doesn't respect your autonomy. And he does seem to know what to say when you're upset... hmmm.

Tread carefully with him, perhaps don't see him as often.

Date other guys. Yes, dating can suck a lot of the time, but there really are some great men out there. Maybe you should engage in online conversation a little bit longer and be more selective about who you meet up with.

Do not make the Professor the center of your world!
 
Originally Posted by missmindful
He has expressed to me that he thinks I should date him exclusively at the beginning before I start dating others, if that is what I choose to do, and he also said he would feel jealous if he knew I were going out with someone with whom I had interest.
That is a red flag! So he has double standards. You are supposed to be there waiting for him while he lives his life with his wife.
I agree with this 100%! The first 1/2 of the sentence "He has expressed to me that he thinks I should date him exclusively at the beginning before I start dating others, if that is what I choose to do" may sound very understanding and concerned for your wishes, but it also carries a whiff of his steering your wishes ("he thinks I should date him exclusively").

[Why not: "If that is what you choose to do, I will respect your decision."?]

When coupled with the second 1/2: "he would feel jealous if he knew I were going out with someone with whom I had interest", it definitely sounds like he's putting emotional pressure on you. (That's me being kind. I could also say emotional blackmail.)

Polyamory does not mean "letting your partner fuck somebody else", it means (among other things) "accepting that your partner has a right to form other emotional attachments". You have both used the expression "falling in love" when talking about your relationship [even if only about that possibility]. And that is perfectly alright with his wife... and with him, of course. (You're the one with doubts.) But now it's "I'd rather you didn't become emotionally attached to anyone but me?" To quote the Holy Scriptures: Bloody shit!

IIWY, I'd consider getting another bf just to prove that Professor can't set your syllabus.
Please, please educate yourself! This forum has a tremendous amount of information for you. Take your time and read! Anything and everything that catches your eye... There are so many ways to lead a poly life. Try to figure your own way.
100%!
 
He is quite dominant, and I am a natural submissive, (not kink or BDSM) so maybe we should try out that pupil/disciplinarian thing. Could be fun.

The role of a dominant is not to get everything he wants or to tell the submissive what to do, extracting compliance. A dominant prioritizes the submissive's nurturing and growth and those are the focus of the relationship. Whether you're professor and student, kink or vanilla, consensual and strong mentorship is what a dominant/submissive relationship is all about. So give a lot of thought to what you want in this situation. That is central.
 
Please, please educate yourself! This forum has a tremendous amount of information for you. Take your time and read! Anything and everything that catches your eye... There are so many ways to lead a poly life. Try to figure your own way.

I think I am doing a good job with this. Like I said, six weeks ago, I knew next to nothing about polyamory. It is a difficult topic to research though, and I feel that there is not much out there for someone who is coming into polyamory from the perspective of a second. I do have More Than Two, The Ethical Slut, and Sex at Dawn. This forum has definitely been the best resource though, both for the archives and the ability to post questions. I do feel good with my instincts. From your responses, I seem to be asking the right questions.

Think about it - he's poly and partnered, but doesn't want you dating anyone else? How can he possibly expect that? This is an indicator of couple privilege and of a control freak who doesn't respect your autonomy. And he does seem to know what to say when you're upset... hmmm.

Tread carefully with him, perhaps don't see him as often.

Date other guys. Yes, dating can suck a lot of the time, but there really are some great men out there. Maybe you should engage in online conversation a little bit longer and be more selective about who you meet up with.

Do not make the Professor the center of your world!

This is exactly what I was thinking. The Professor and I went for a run this morning. He said that I seemed distant, and he asked if I was still pissed about yesterday. I told him that although I was not still angry, (because we did have a good a talk about it on the phone) I felt like it burst my bubble a bit, it was a reality check. So, we went to breakfast, and I told him that I thought I should start dating again. He was a little surprised by this, and asked when I started thinking that I wanted to continue dating- was it after what happened yesterday? I said no, it was last week when I started to talking to a mono guy friend who just started dating a poly girl as well and we had said that the only way we could see it working long term is if we had others as well. I asked him how he was feeling, and he said, "a bit disappointed." I asked him- "why? what do you feel will change?, what is your concern?" He said he did not know, and that his feeling is probably not fair or realistic. He said that this news was new to him as we had agreed that I should wait to start dating until we had established our relationship. I told him that I felt as if that decision was a bit ignorant or mis-informed, and I felt now that it would be better for me to continue dating, and I also told him that it probably would not change things immensely, as I find very few people who peak my interest. He said his greatest desire is to for me to be happy and he wants whatever I think will make me happy.

The role of a dominant is not to get everything he wants or to tell the submissive what to do, extracting compliance. A dominant prioritizes the submissive's nurturing and growth and those are the focus of the relationship. Whether you're professor and student, kink or vanilla, consensual and strong mentorship is what a dominant/submissive relationship is all about. So give a lot of thought to what you want in this situation. That is central.

This is all new to me as well. I don't really know what you mean? I think we have a consensual, strong mentorship going on. I have always known I was submissive, but I have never really explored it. My ex husband was submissive and it was awful as I had to step into the dominant role most of the time and it caused a lot of resentment. When I met the Professor it was insane. The chemistry and our attraction to each-other was animalistic. His love language is physical touch and so is mine. He told me he liked my hair and he was dying to touch it for the past 45 minutes and ran his fingers through my hair in the most sexy way. I responded by kissing him- not something I have done on a first date this time around. We ended up making out in the parking lot for 45 minutes with me arching my back against my car and basically offering my neck to him. It was crazy. I went home freaked out and told my girlfriend that it was so intimate that I felt like I had sex with him.

Here is our dynamic- He likes to take care of me. Nadia is independent, their sex/ relationship is more balanced. Her boyfriend (MonoNick), is submissive. I am a single mother, and I enjoy letting the Professor take care of me when we are together. He does not let me pay for anything, he cooks when we stay in, he also is in Education- administrative and teaching, and he is helping me with my resume (I am a preschool teacher). I am a beginning runner training for a team relay- he used to coach runners for marathons, and he designed a plan, runs with me, and enjoys coaching me. We both love travel and if he gets this consulting job, we are going to China in November. He knows I cant do this on my own, so he would be taking me. Our sex is more like the straight scenes in 50 Shades of Grey- not too kinky, but definitely dom/sub.

FallenAngelina's comment reminds me that I earlier wanted to write: A submissive is not [necessarily] a doormat.

Really? Do I sound like I am a doormat? I have clearly called him on all his bullshit so I don't know why you would say that.

Thank you all for your replies. You are all beyond helpful and have given me so much to ponder. As always, any feedback is welcomed and appreciated.
 
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Do I sound like I am a doormat? I have clearly called him on all his bullshit so I don't know why you would say that.

You do not sound like a doormat. Perhaps Mr. FFR was just tossing out a general thought.

Enjoy this beautiful new adventure, MissMindful!
 
I think I am doing a good job with this.
So do I.
Do I sound like I am a doormat? I have clearly called him on all his bullshit so I don't know why you would say that.
I don't think that you sound like a doormat. What I meant was don't let him think that he can treat you like a doormat. If you prefer: "Don't let him think that he can take you for granted." He seemed - to me (and I think: to you) - to be doing that. You called him out on it. Hats off to you!

Your talk during and after your run give much hope for the future. He was surprised, but he accepted your decision. Keep running! (Whoops: realised in time that that could also be taken the wrong way, so: I don't mean "away".)

I still think that he runs the risk of putting emotional pressure on you, and I think that you should bring that up with him.
 
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