Question for both primaries and secondaries

[westVan]

It's over

I read and reread everyone's advice here and took it. I contacted them, and told them I needed to talk about the relationship, and what I needed to go forward. At that point, the relationship was ended by the wife.

You all have been very helpful with your advice and time. Thank you.

 

[Tonberry]

*hugs* Good luck with the future. I'm sorry the relationship ended, but at the same time it's better than being taken advantage of! I hope in your next relationship you can be open about what your needs are and see them respected, and be an active part of decisions relating to you.

 

[Marcus]

I read and reread everyone's advice here and took it I contacted them, and told them I needed to talk about the relationship, and what I needed to go forward. At that point, the relationship was ended by the wife.

Good for you. That relationship sounded like a real crapper and I imagine you're better off without it. (Thank-you emails! lol Give me a break!)

I agree with Tonberry. Use this as a learning experience and let it help you to foster more mutually healthy relationships in the future.

 

[IndieSolo]

Good riddance! You are better off. Now, start formulating your own personal boundaries so that you can ask your next potential partners whether or not they are willing to play by your guidelines. There is no way to negotiate if only one party has expectations!

Also, if you still think you want to be involved in poly arrangements in the future, keep reading this forum and http://www.morethantwo.com/polyforsecondaries.html for insight.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

I am going to play devil's advocate here. Some married or long-term couples come into poly through not-so-honest means, which means when they decide to try it honestly, there are already trust issues. As the new person in a relationship with one of them, that's totally not your fault. It does, however, mean that things typically go slower. That's what we had to do. Go slowly, with lots of communication.

Right. But that onus is on the husband, not the husband's girlfriend. Trust is built by giving small allowances bit by bit, and then checking whether or not they were abused. You give them a little rope, but not enough to hang themselves. How can you build trust if you don't leave any room for mistakes?

Requiring thank-you notes? Just how are you expressing genuine appreciation to your metamour if it is a requirement? What self-centered nonsense!

Do you think I can get that blender back from my brother-in-law? I never got a thank-you note, genuine or otherwise. Veto power for wedding gifts!

 

[Cancelled123]

Feel like ranting a bit

Even without meaning to, primaries are often controlling of the secondary's relationship. I have both a primary (husband) and a boyfriend. My bf has two primaries of his own that he lives with (although he shares more of the romantic side of things with one of them). The boyfriend and I have two pre-determined nights a week where we're allowed to see each other for maybe 3-4 hours each. Some of that time is spend alone, but most of it is not. Often one or more of his mates are in the same room with us, watching a TV show or whatever.

We get maybe 2 hours alone, and only when we seclude ourselves in the bedroom. Even that time used to get interrupted until I had a bit of a fit about the lack of courtesy and knocking on doors. If we ever want to sneak in something not on the regular schedule, he always must ask his primaries' permission, making sure they're ok with it and that there are no hurt feelings or scheduling issues. I'm very tired of feeling like they're the ones who get to decide when I can see my boyfriend. I could scream.

We have never had a sleepover, nor a vacation (even a weekend getaway) together, and we've been together for over 2.5 years. My husband can get a bit jealous, even now sometimes, and I find that my bf's wife can be a bit invasive on occasion. She doesn't mean anything by it, but she really likes me and often wants to be a part of what we do. Since I don't get much alone time with him as is, I find this extremely hard to deal with. I love my boyfriend very much, and I want him to continue to be a part of my life, but it feels like our relationship will never grow into more. Yet he and I both want it to. And that's a hard thing to swallow...

The needs and wants of secondaries are often just not considered as important. The primaries don't need to check with the secondaries about anything, but as secondaries, we can't go catch a freaking movie without clearing it with three people, and possibly ending up having to take some of them along because they'd love to go, too. I wish that the considerations flowed both ways. My boyfriend means as much to me as my husband, and I'm sure I do to him, as well. But the reality is that we have to make do with what's left after our live-in mates and families are all happy and taken care of, and we're supposed to be thankful that we're allowed to even see each other. Geez, thanks, I guess...

 

[Vixtoria]

I'm sorry that scheduling is such a hard thing for all of you, but I have to say I get really really tired of it being a lumped-in problem. This is a problem in your situation. It does not mean all primary partners are like that. It does not mean that people in established relationships automatically lord that over other people.

My husband is mono. He works incredibly hard to be a supportive partner, and is more poly-minded than a lot of poly folks I see around here. Yet I know he feels badly when these kinds of things get posted. So let's not just lump all primaries in one boat, or all established relationships.

It may feel like this is just how it is and must be how all secondary relationships are, but it's not. Saying so is much like saying every time you've met a Black person they've been rude, so all Black people are rude; or every gay man you've met was a bitchy queen, so all gay men are bitchy queens. Those kinds of "all or nothing" beliefs don't fly, so I don't think these "all or nothing" primary/secondary issues should either.

There, that's my rant.

 

[Marcus]

The needs and wants of the secondaries are often just not considered as important. The primaries don't need to check with the secondaries about anything, but as secondaries, we can't go catch a freaking movie without clearing it with 3 people, and possibly ending up having to take some of them along because they'd love to go too. I wish the considerations flowed both ways. My boyfriend means as much to me as my husband, and I'm sure I do to him, as well. But the reality is that we have to make do with what's left after our live-in mates and families are all happy and taken care of, and we're supposed to be thankful that we're allowed to even see each other. Geez, thanks, I guess...

And you are happy in this kind of arrangement?

At best, that sounds like being an unappreciated employee. At worst, it sounds like being a stray dog hanging around hoping to get fed.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Yeah, that sounds like a crap situation. Have you tried talking to everyone involved about your frustrations, and seeing if things can change?

"The primaries don't need to check with the secondaries about anything, but as secondaries, we can't go catch a freaking movie without clearing it with 3 people and possibly ending up having to take some of them along, because they'd love to go too."

All of my relationships are secondary relationships. I go to the movies whenever I please, with whomever I like, without clearing it with anyone except myself. My partners are responsible for managing their own schedules. If they're free, great. If not, I find someone else to do things with, or I do my own thing. We fit time in where we can. There are no set schedules. The two of them that have busier lives share their google calendars with me, and I share mine with them, to make it easier for us to figure out when the other might be available.

My married gf and I are going to do an overnight trip out of town as soon as she's comfortable spending a night away from her toddler.

 

[sterling119]

I know that, at least for our relationship, needs and feelings matter equally. The key for us is communication. My wife and I are in a poly V, with her as the hinge.

Her bf gets time alone with her. They do spend the night together, sometimes in our bed, as it is more comfortable than his, although it is only 1 room away.

Time splitting is something we are working on, but so far we have worked out a schedule that seems good for all. It may be a little different, as he is only home weekends due to work, but they get at least 1 night during the weekend together alone for the night.

All 3 of us are very happy with it. We talk about what works and doesn't. No secrets are kept. We all know what is going on. So for us, at least, feelings and needs matter all the way around.

Normally during the weekend we are all cuddled up on the couch. Yes, sometimes he gets some extra time with her, if they feel they need it. But at least 1 night on the days he is home is in the plans.

 

[Cleo]

I love my boyfriend very much, and I want him to continue to be a part of my life, but it feels like our relationship will never grow into more. Yet he and I both want it to. And that's a hard thing to swallow.

If both you and he really want things to be different, why can't they be different? From what you describe, it seems like you are the only one who wants things to change. Your situation sounds like something I would not put up with for a week, let alone years.

The needs and wants of the secondaries are often just not considered as important. The primaries don't need to check with the secondaries about anything (...)

Well, in my poly life, things are very different. I tell my husband where I'm going and with whom. I don't ask him. I can go on vacation by myself, with a friend or a lover. We don't forbid or allow each other anything.

The only time he asked me to spend a little less time with my BF was when husband was hurting over his cheating GF.

 

[IndieSolo]

My bf has two primaries of his own that he lives with. My boyfriend and I have two pre-determined nights a week where we're allowed to see each other for maybe 3-4 hours each. Some of that time is spend alone, but most of it is not. Often one or more of his mates are in the same room as us, watching a TV show or whatever.

What prevents either of you from saying, "Hey guys, we'd like some privacy"?

We get maybe 2 hours alone, and only when we seclude ourselves in the bedroom. Even that time used to get interrupted until I had a bit of a fit about the lack of courtesy and knocking on doors.

Um, can't you get up and go out? Can't you meet up anywhere else?

If we ever want to sneak in something not on the regular schedule, we always must ask his primaries' permission, making sure they're ok with it and that there are no hurt feelings or scheduling issues. I'm tired of feeling like they're the ones who get to decide when I can see my boyfriend.

The key is to stop "sneaking around" and going to his primaries as beggars. You are adults. Why would you ask permission? State clearly what you want to do.

We have never had a sleepover, nor a vacation (even a weekend getaway) together, and we've been together for over 2.5 years.

If you really wanted all that, you would've made it happen, dontcha think?

My husband can get a bit jealous, even now, sometimes, and I find that my bf's wife can be a bit invasive on occasion.

So what? His jealousy stops you in your tracks? Why isn't he managing his own feelings?

She doesn't mean anything by it, but she really likes me and often wants to be a part of what we do. Since I don't get much alone time with him as is, I find this extremely hard to deal with.

I really don't get why you cannot say to her, "I'd love to hang out with you another day, but right now BF and I need some quality time alone."

I love my boyfriend very much, and I want him to continue to be a part of my life, but it feels like our relationship will never grow into more, yet he and I both want it to. And that's a hard thing to swallow.

So, take a stance! If both of you want things to change, then change them.

The needs and wants of the secondaries are often just not considered as important. The primaries don't need to check with the secondaries about anything, but as secondaries, we can't go catch a freaking movie without clearing it with 3 people and possibly ending up having to take some of them along because they'd love to go too.

Again, why are you not speaking up and saying, "We're going to see a movie on such-and-such night. Catch up with you another time"? Or why say anything about what you'll be doing at all? You have specific, designated nights to see each other. They know you will be together on those nights. Why do they need to know what you're doing and where you're going? Just go out and do what you want!

I wish that the considerations flowed both ways. My boyfriend means as much to me as my husband, and I'm sure I do to him, as well. But the reality is that we have to make do with what's left after our live-in mates and families are all happy and taken care of, and we're supposed to be thankful that we're allowed to even see each other. Geez, thanks, I guess...

Don't you see that it is that way because you've accepted it? Time to stand up for yourself, methinks.

 

[Dagferi]

Even without meaning to, primaries are often controlling of the secondaries' relationship. I have both a primary (husband) and a boyfriend. My bf has two primaries of his own that he lives with. My boyfriend and I have two pre-determined nights a week where we're allowed to see each other for maybe 3-4 hours each. Some of that time is spend alone, but most of it is not. Often, one or more of his mates are in the same room as us...

What is it with being "allowed" to see each other? I see my boyfriend when I can around his work schedule. My boyfriend's needs DO NOT come below my husbands. They get equal consideration. On the nights Murf comes here and spends the night, Butch will respect our time and give us our privacy.

We get maybe 2 hours alone, and only when we seclude ourselves to the bedroom. Even that time used to get interrupted until I had a bit of a fit about the lack of courtesy and knocking on doors. If we ever want to sneak in something not on the regular schedule we always must ask his primaries' permission, making sure they're ok with it and that there are no hurt feelings or scheduling issues. I'm tired of feeling like they're the ones who get to decide when I can see my boyfriend.

Your boyfriend needs to say something, and so should you, politely but firmly. They need to come to grips with their feelings. It is not your job to ensure their emotional security.

We have never had a sleepover, nor a vacation (even a weekend getaway). We've been together for over 2.5 years. My husband can get a bit jealous, even now, sometimes, and I find that my bf's wife can be a bit invasive on occasion. She doesn't mean anything by it, but she really likes me and often wants to be a part of what we do. Since I don't get much alone time with him as is, I find this extremely hard to deal with. I love my boyfriend very much, and I want him to continue to be a part of my life, but it feels like our relationship will never grow into more. Yet he and I both want it to. And that's a hard thing to swallow...

Again, you need to put your foot down. If you want it, ask for it. If your boyfriend is unwilling to fight for you, then maybe it is time to decide if you can handle this situation forever. My relationships are separate but equal. It is doable. I do not allow either my husband or boyfriend to pull rank.

The needs and wants of the secondaries are often just not considered as important. The primaries don't need to check with the secondaries about anything, but as secondaries, we can't go catch a freaking movie without clearing it with 3 people. and possibly ending up having to take some of them along because they'd love to go too. I wish that the considerations flowed both ways. My boyfriend means as much to me as my husband, and I'm sure I do to him, as well. But the reality is that we have to make do with what's left after our live-in mates and families are all happy and taken care of and we're supposed to be THANKFUL that we're allowed to even see each other. Geez, thanks, I guess...

You get treated only as badly as you allow others to treat you. If you do not want them to go, SAY NO.

 

[Cancelled123]

Some very tough love in here, some really good advice. Will be thinking on this a while... Thanks to all who offered their thoughts.