Really could use advice (very promising new relationship)

I will concede the point this forum might not be right for Sun. That she isn't ready for poly and that her first priority should be to deal with the abuse issues.

Having said that:

a) She thinks that she is poly, and it might help her refocus to have poly people tell her that her first priority should be to deal with the abuse issues. It wouldn't be the first time that I have seen such advice here. (e.g. "Deal with the problems with your wife before you even think of adding another lover.")

b) Greg thinks (or thought) that she is poly. He also thought that "this forum would be a big asset to her healing". Being of that opinion, seeing the struggles that she is going through, and not being willing to share this (perhaps useless) healing tool with her... that's selfishness in my book.

Let me use a wacky analogy. You're standing on a quay; you see someone drowning, but you can't swim; right next to you is what LOOKS like a life-saver, but is really a piece of concrete sculpture; you make no move to throw the drowning person the piece of sculpture. Now, you haven't picked it up, don't know how much it weighs, and in your mind it would be of value to the drowning person. To make no move to throw it is a case of neglect. To make no move to throw it because you might need it, in case you fell in the water is an example of selfishness.

You are riight that Greg needs to work on his own issues. Selfishness seems to be one of them. Perhaps a need to play the shining knight is another. I only suggest that he look at those two possibilities honestly.

c) It is an accepted fact in psychology that we often most strenuously deny what we subconsciously know to be the truth. (If it's an uncomfortable one.) Greg has many times been lavish in his praise and thanks for all the "great advice" that I've been giving him. All of a sudden, he lashed out at me. Perhaps I got a bit TOO close to the truth?
 
Hi Greg,
We don't delete threads here. This way they stay as a helpful resource for others in similar situations. You have 12 hours to edit a post. That is all in the Guidelines, which I hope you read when you joined.

If you like, I can lock this thread so no one else posts on it, and this way it will become buried over time and unlikely to be found - but still can come up in a search. However, I really don't see the need to lock it, since you've used aliases.

MrFarFromRight said:
I have sent a PM to Greg, explaining how to delete his own comments*, and asking him just what he found objectionable in mine. I am willing to edit it, but not to remove my opinion that he was being selfish. I pointed out that he had expressed this possibility himself.
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Okay, so how about you leave him be now -- before you cross the line into harping on him? You've come very close to that in this thread! I think you made your point.

MrFarFromRight said:
If Greg so chooses, he may (and can) remove all of the comments that he made on this thread. But that would leave our replies, including those including quotes from him.
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You are giving incorrect information. One can only edit or delete up to 12 hours after posting. After that, your posts are not your own anymore.
 
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Greg said:
.... he is guilting her in all sorts of ways, limiting what she "can do" and also has an understanding that he will leave her when he finds his "true" monogamous mate. What's worse, he's even denying sexual favors to her for not being monogamous. It was hard to hear about.

Her other partner is a long-standing one for years and they were monogamous recently. ....

....This person seems to "want to be / try" to live up to the poly that *she* wants, but his heart doesn't seem in it.

....she is still pretty new to poly, has almost zero support system, and seems to have two men toying with / controlling much of her poly choices (with a troubling lack of consent). ....
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Greg said:
... taking on a new partner who was not poly is a pretty bad choice, especially when the other partner is trying, but is also noticeably uncomfortable with poly...

.... What worries me most is that the relationship was entered into VERY quickly, he is much older than her (maybe this is irrelevant) and I believe he is manipulating her, trying to get her to compromise on a very clear poly stance which was communicated from the beginning.

The other person, she partnered with mongs originally and decided she needed to be poly so he is "adapting" - at least thats what it sounds like. So she is communicating at least, and very clearly *wants* to be poly and is trying I think. youre right though, she is making some bad choices and and I think she really needs a better poly support structure.

....:
"She has one other partner who is trying hard, and spends with you 20 hours cuddling in bed during the first week - so much time is almost guaranteed to make him jealous too. If she treats them this way, how is she going to treat your feelings once you've outgrown NRE?".
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Greg said:

Some clarification on OP:
Person #1 (lets say BOB): she started with monogs 2 years ago and 1 year ago said she wanted to be poly. ....

Person #2: (lets say JIM): She started dating this guy a few months ago. There are all sorts of red flags with this one - he was a work client, they rushed into it fast (sex the first day I think), hes wayyy older (twice her age), .... By "sexual favors" i mean that he refuses to give her oral sex because he is "saving himself" for mono partner. But she gives him oral and they have sex regularly. ....

Person #3 (lets say SARAH): I did not mention in OP to save on length of all this, but she is (or was?) dating a woman for 2+ years as well. currently shes in a huge fight with BOB for sleeping with SARAH (sounds like some miscommunication of boundaries, i.e. threesome was suggested but one-on-one was not said to be okay). ....

.... I'm worried about this being a "poly by force" situation because he doesn't want to lose her. ....
I am really concerned about how him sleeping with SARAH has hurt her. I can't imagine coming between a bond of two women like that, for any reason.
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What I want to know is...where is all this abuse? Are they hitting her? Are they locking her up? Or are they having feelings and opinions she doesn't like?

She dropped the poly bomb on Bob and he's having a hard time dealing with his girlfriend suddenly being in bed with another guy for 20 hours a week. This is not abuse. She chose a second man, Jim, who wasn't poly, either, and is now upset that he's having a hard time dealing with her sleeping with other men.

You call it a red flag that she slept with Jim on the first day, yet you yourself have been in bed with her cuddling and talking for 20 hours in the first week. Did you not have sex with her in those 20 hours, or did you wait for the second or third day? What is it that makes your 20 hours in bed less of a red flag than his maybe sleeping with her the first day?

You are concerned they're 'controlling' her poly choices. How? Are they really physically preventing her being with other men? I'm guessing not, since you were in bed with her 20 hours in the first week. Or by 'controlling' do you mean that they have voiced opinions they don't like what she's doing?

And it seems to me that this must be a two-way street. She's also upset about Jim's poly choice of sleeping with Sarah. And Sarah seems to be getting a pass here--didn't Sarah also choose to sleep with Jim, or did Jim throw Sarah over his shoulder and haul her into his cave? So if Jim and Bob are 'controlling' by being unhappy with Sun's choices, then isn't Sun likewise 'controlling' by being upset about Jim and Sarah's choices? And why is Jim guilty of coming between the bond between two women? Again--didn't Sarah have some say in this?

'Denying sexual favors....' Again, I feel you're looking for reasons to twist things to view these men as bad. He doesn't want to give her oral sex. That's certainly his right, isn't it? What if she didn't want to give him oral and he was saying on a board somewhere that she was 'denying him sexual favors.' Would that be fair, or would a whole lot of people be outraged that he took the attitude she somehow owed him oral sex?

I'm really missing where the 'abuse' is from these two men.
 
In all honesty, this sounds like a group of people who have piled a lot of drama and unhappiness in their lives that didn't need to be there. It sounds like a high school drama fest.
 
WhatHappened said:
'Denying sexual favors....' Again, I feel you're looking for reasons to twist things to view these men as bad. He doesn't want to give her oral sex. That's certainly his right, isn't it? What if she didn't want to give him oral and he was saying on a board somewhere that she was 'denying him sexual favors.' Would that be fair, or would a whole lot of people be outraged that he took the attitude she somehow owed him oral sex?

I'm really missing where the 'abuse' is from these two men.
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I was thinking the same thing. If someone doesn't want to give me oral sex I don't mind. I admit, I do simply take it as a given in that case that they also don't like receiving oral sex - and I find that quickly takes care of any sense of 'double standards' quite easily. If there is a mismatch in this area, it's probably more a sign of sexual incompatibility than abuse or coercion. As ever, it's in the eye of the beholder. If you're the kind of person who does something that they don't enjoy, in hopes that they get something that they do enjoy back in return, then this is problematic. An unspoken tit-for-tat mentality does tend to lead to disappointment. If your friend is unhappy about the lack of oral coming her way, and feels shamed and taken advantage of, then all she needs to do is rebalance things by taking oral sex off the menu completely, or find another partner who is more compatible with her. On it's own, what her other (ex?) partner is doing/saying/requesting is not abusive at all - he's simply stating his preferences. She can accept those as they are, state her own and ask to negotiate, or reject them and end the relationship/that aspect of the relationship.
 
tenK said:
I was thinking the same thing. If someone doesn't want to give me oral sex I don't mind.
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Yes, sure.

I read the situation description of more a matter of "if you're seeing that man, I won't give you oral any more", which, frankly, could be a form or abuse. OR it could be a matter of "I am so jealous now that I don't feel like".

I don't think it is our place to determine if there was or wasn't any abuse in the described situation. I, too, feel we're seeing it through a double filter in this case - what Greg told us he feels about the situation (which has been kind of vague at times, like in the later case), and perhaps more importantly what SUN told Greg about the situation. We just don't know. In this story (at this moment finished, since Greg stopped contact with her and stopped responding here) I suggest leaving it at that. Any further comment is likely to contain more and more conjectures and projection...
 
As far as referring this forum to someone and being afraid of them finding what you've posted...

I've referred this forum to Hubby and to all three of the men with whom I've been in relationships since my poly journey started. Each time, I said essentially, "This is a great resource; however, I have a blog thread on there, and since I use it for venting and ranting sometimes, I would prefer that you not read it if you happen to visit the forum."

All four guys replied with, essentially, "I want you to have a safe place to talk to others and get your thoughts out, so I won't visit that forum at all."

Recently, someone "outed" me by sharing my blog link with someone who should not have seen it. That someone then passed it along to my boyfriend. Despite the circumstances, and despite what my boyfriend was told about the blog, he *still* kept his word not to read the blog or visit the forum. Instead, he asked someone he trusted to check the blog, to NOT give him any details about what it said, but just to tell him whether he'd been given accurate information.

I tend to assume best intentions when someone gives me their word in a situation like that, so if I were Greg, I wouldn't hesitate to tell Sun about the forum and simply ask that she avoid this thread. Alternately, he could refer her to the forum and just tell her he's posted a thread asking for advice about her situation, and say he's sorry if he shared information he shouldn't have but he genuinely wanted to help her and didn't know where to start. But if he feels this forum would help her and the only thing holding him up from sharing it is his fear that she'll read what he posted about her... well, discretion and all that, but yeah, I would agree with MFFR that it's selfish to keep a valuable resource away from someone just because you're worried they might be unhappy with you about a bit of it.
 
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