Relationship advice: A particular kind of Jealousy

[Poly Hedgehog]

Good morning, beautiful people.

I'm new to this community and I reach out to you to hear your experiences and thoughts about an issue that me and my partner are dealing with in our relationship.

Me and my partner have recently starting going out and have defined our relationship as poly-hierarchical we both finding ourselves at the highest level of commitment. Currently we decided not to date other people at the same hierarchical level as we both are to be able to build a solid ground base for trust and safety between us. I have been in another poly relationship, but she is experiencing it for the first time. We both always wished to find someone with whom to start a non-monogamous relationship, and have been preparing for it for some years now. We both have attended years of psychology sessions and are relatively able to work with our feelings and communicate them.

The topic I want to discuss with you is some special issue we both are dealing with concerning jealousy. We both are bisexual and we allow ourselves to date any gender. However, we have noticed that we both feel the strongest jealousy or uncomfortable feelings when our partner dates people of the opposite gender to them. What we find hard to deal with is the idea of our partner sharing very affectionate moments with another person from the opposite gender. (Clarification: me and my partner identify as he/him, she/her persons). This is, the uncomfortable jealousy thoughts come when I, as a cis man, date cis women, and when my partner, as a cis woman, dates cis men. None of the other dating we have had with people identifying somewhere else on the gender spectrum have caused this issue. Even group encounters are much easier to deal with emotionally.

We presume that what happens here is that we project ourselves in the dating person as we can identify ourselves with them much easier than with people of different gender to us, and feel jealous since we irrationally fear replacement.

As a loving partner, I make sure that I only date other women if my main partner feels ok emotionally with it. I explain all my intentions with my dating persons to my main partner and make sure that we both have clear and up-to date expectations of our feelings towards it. We understand that allowing us to date multiple people requires emotional work and we are willing the make the effort to deal with it for us to be happier in our current relationship, which we hope to keep for a very long time. Sometimes this work is too much for us to deal with, and we are willing to stop or reduce the frequency of our dating to help my main partner deal with it much easier. The health of our relationship is our priority and we want to put her well-being first, before our other dating partners.

Currently I date women, but she does not date men. This causes an imbalance in the amount of work she puts dealing with my dating compared to mine. I feel that this is not fair to her, and I would like to help her and myself in the future, in case that she starts dating men again.

I would like to hear your experiences on this issue if you ever experienced something similar and found some solution to it, or are struggling with it right now. I hope this post helps us support each other and allows us all to build healthier, more loving relationships.

I wish you all a great day ☀

 

[Magdlyn]

We irrationally fear replacement.

It's hard to argue with irrational fears, you know. That's a job for you and her to each work on deeply within yourselves.

I'd say you're not fully on board with polyamory because of these fears of loss. You're doing one thing to "protect the primary relationship": agreeing to keep all other loves in a secondary position. You say your feelings and your primary's feelings matter more than the feelings of others. These others, should they kick up a fuss for one reason or another, somehow do not deserve the same respect. They are disposable, almost.

Adding to that is the whole gender thing. As bisexuals, you'd both like to casually date others of any gender, cis or trans. But cis MF pairings are the scariest. Do you, as a man, not trust other people of your own sex? Do you not trust your primary partner to decide another guy is better than you, just because he's a guy? Could she not leave you for another woman, or a trans guy? What's so special about a penis?

Is she only dating women now because you're so afraid of losing her to an imaginary man?

You can search the term "one penis policy" here to see many other men struggle with this issue. Usually it comes down to a fear the other guys will have:
A bigger dick
Better sex skills/stamina
Better job
More money
Better car
Be handsomer, more muscular, have more hair, etc.

Less common, but still occurring, is the desire for a "one vagina policy" from open or poly women, either straight, bi or gay. Lesbians sometimes only want their female primary to date other women, but NOT men. In your case, your partner, a bi woman, only wants you to date men, or maybe transwomen? Maybe she is afraid other cis women:
Will be thinner
Younger
Have bigger or better breasts or ass
Be more charming, funnier, cuter, smarter, more endearing, more talented, etc.

I once attempted to date a guy who was bisexual. He told me he was polyamorous, as was his wife. After much struggle between the three of us, she told him, even though she could date men (she was straight), he, as a bi guy, could only date other men, not women (i.e., me). She just could not see me as not a threat to their marriage, even though we met, and I respectfully explained what I was seeking from her husband. She laid down the law. He could only have casual sexual short-term hookups with other men. She, however, could form deep loving romantic relationships with other men, even have them move in with her and her husband. (One of her partners had lived with them for a couple years, already.) This was obviously a screaming double standard, and I lost respect for the guy, since he went along with this. It made him seem very weak.

 

[Poly Hedgehog]

Hi Magdlyn,

Thanks for your comments. I enjoyed reading your post out and I would like to comment further on them.

I agree that irrational fears are hard to argue against. We are both working very hard ourselves and in therapy to be able to free ourselves from these fears and enjoy our relationship as we want to have it.

Indeed, I agree with that we are not fully on board with polyamory yet. We both have relatively little experience with it, and therefore still have this structure of "primary and secondary partners." I have experienced healthy relationships with this system where the expectations of all partners were met since also communication was very fluid and people were honest with their feelings. I am concerned about what our other (let's call them "partners" for now) partners feel like, of course. I care about their feelings. I would not feel happy treating someone as disposable.

That people feel disposable can be an issue of our current relationship structure, indeed. Me and my partner have agreed trying it first, however, so that we can both explore and get used to these new complex feelings. Do you have some experience as well with this relationship setup as the one we currently have?

We are trying to build something and learn from it slowly. I did not do so in the past and it was not a pleasant experience...

Did you have a different experience with your first non-monogamous relationship?

About the gender issue:
I trust other men that my partner chooses to date, but I compare myself with them much more, and imagining my partner sharing affection with them in the same way she does with me is much harder to deal with than with people of other genders. She has this issue as well, I am not sure it's only about the "one penis/vagina policy." I believe in my case it can be an insecurity issue as well. I still irrationally do not feel 100% safe sharing my partner with others, since I have not experienced this for a sufficient time. I want to work on it with my partner and build a strong healthy relationship that gives me the confidence to fight against these feelings. She also needs the same, so that's why we currently focus primarily on strengthening what's between us, while curiously exploring the boundaries of what we are capable of.

She is not dating men not because I feel more jealous with them. She stopped doing it way earlier, before I met her. Also she has done it since we started going out, so there is not any restriction in our relationship yet.

I will definitely read about the one penis/vagina policy. I am sure some of those points you described apply to me and my partner too. I will discuss with her those points, and dig deeper. Let's see where we come out! Thank you.

I am sorry you went through that experience, and to hear that there are people who put up with such restrictions for their partners' happiness unwillingly.

I am trying to analyse myself and my feelings so that I don't fall into a double standard, as well. We have not imposed any restrictions yet on who me and my partner can date. We are exploring this specific kind of jealousy we are feeling because it happened to be the hardest to deal with currently.

I am very excited to read your comments and I hope you understand my text also in a friendly manner . I am here to learn. I am sure I commit mistakes. I don't pretend to know more than anyone at all. I find sharing our experiences in this community very helpful! Thank you for sharing your experience too.

 

[Magdlyn]

You're very welcome. I am trying to help everyone... Sometimes new people get defensive and offended when they don't get the advice or kind of feedback they were expecting!

My first attempt at polyamory was the summer I was 18-19. I had three bfs-- two I was fucking and one I was just dating, making out with a little. They didn't last that long, for one reason or another... The guys were aware I wasn't committed to any one of them, and they didn't care. But I really enjoyed the variety. And I felt empowered as a woman to not be tied to any one man, controlled by him.

That fall I met my husband to be. I was 19 and he was 21. He and I were together 30 years. After 20 years, he finally accepted that I was bisexual. He suggested a triad. I wasn't feeling super ready, but he talked me into it. He seemed to think if I had a gf, he'd benefit by getting some of that too.

However, prior to this, he knew I was poly at heart. He was always super jealous of any man I spoke to a moment too long, or hugged too long, or danced with, etc. He had very low self esteem. To convince me to be true to him, he told me he'd never ever been attracted to another woman besides me after we met. He outright lied to me, to "set an example." He finally admitted this after three different couples counselors. He admitted he'd mentally undressed and fucked every single attractive woman he'd ever met. This felt like a huge betrayal, of course. Not that he desired others, but that he'd purposefully lied about it to guilt me into being more "pure."

Meanwhile, we met a woman through a hobby group. She was about our age. She was single. She was smart, cool, gentle, interesting. We both liked her. He approached her with the offer. She said she was interested. She lied. She told him she'd be into both of us, but she just said that to get to him. She didn't even trust women. She wasn't even bi.

So, he fell madly in love with her, and vice versa. It was a nightmare. I vetoed their sex after about 6 months. (I no longer believe in vetoes.) They continued to email and have long yearning phone calls. (This was before texting.) Eventually he and I broke up. (It took another 8 years; I was stubbornly trying "everything" to stay together.) She and he started living together right away and they just got married this year. Both mono.

I went on to immediately start poly-dating. I felt so free. I met a lovely and loving woman right away, and we are still together (16 years). I dated a bunch of men, and finally, over 3 years ago, I met Mr Right, who is crazy about me, and vice versa.

My female partner, Pixi, is also bi/pansexual and has a bf of her own. Her bf, Malachi, is pansexual, but basically mono. He's introverted and has no energy for another romantic relationship. They've been together about 10 years.

My bf Aries had always felt poly, but hadn't practiced it til we met. (He is quite a bit younger than me.) He loves his freedom, but he considers me his primary, his "heart and soul." He also loves his other gf, but they aren't as much in each other's lives as he and I.

Feel free to ask questions about any area you would find helpful.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Poly Hedgehog,

I don't know if this helps you with the jealousy, but I do take into account that your relationship with your partner gets top priority, over all other relationships either of you may have. To me this is like a layer of safety; it's going to be hard for either of you to replace each other because the two of you are on the top of each other's lists. Just a thought.

Regards,
Kevin T.